Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild

[Gnarly4X]

UPDATE FEB 11 2018 AM

22RE

Here are the spark plugs about 700 miles into the break-in. 

From left to right starting with #4.  I don't know that they could look any better? 

Link to photo:  https://imgur.com/a/N0DKq

Gnarls. 

[blackdiamond]

I don't recall ever meeting in person any one of the members of any of the many forums I've been a member of since 1999.  I consider the active members just a SMPs (Social Media Personalities).  A social media personality can be very different from the person you meet and get to know in person.  I believe there is a tendency to create an alter ego as a social media participator.  Sitting behind a keyboard you can be just about anybody you want to be, and create an infinite virtual reality.

I have met the majority of the active members from WA so it adds another dimension to the forum that it otherwise wouldn't have for me.  The forum dynamics are very dependent on the current active members and it's changed a lot over the years.  Sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad.

[Gnarly4X]

I have met the majority of the active members from WA so it adds another dimension to the forum that it otherwise wouldn't have for me.  The forum dynamics are very dependent on the current active members and it's changed a lot over the years.  Sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad.

Yeah.... Meeting in person a bunch of the members would certainly add a dimension to your forum participation. 

Perhaps sometime in the future I can get up to WA and meet somewhere where we can have a big ol' campfire and sit around and shoot-the-poop all night, and I can meet a bunch of you!

Yes, every forum I've been on for awhile does change, sometimes for the good and sometimes it goes the other way. 

Members come and go.  The popular topics of discussion seem to come back around now and then and they get re-hashed, but its still fun to read about them and post my worthless opinions.

In the last 20 years I've been on hundreds of forums, mostly automotive related, and overall they have been lots of fun, entertaining, informative, educational, and I probably burn up too much time reading and posting. 

Gnarls.

[blackdiamond]

Yeah.... Meeting in person a bunch of the members would certainly add a dimension to your forum participation. 

Perhaps sometime in the future I can get up to WA and meet somewhere where we can have a big ol' campfire and sit around and shoot-the-poop all night, and I can meet a bunch of you!

Yes, every forum I've been on for awhile does change, sometimes for the good and sometimes it goes the other way. 

Members come and go.  The popular topics of discussion seem to come back around now and then and they get re-hashed, but its still fun to read about them and post my worthless opinions.

In the last 20 years I've been on hundreds of forums, mostly automotive related, and overall they have been lots of fun, entertaining, informative, educational, and I probably burn up too much time reading and posting. 

Gnarls.

For sure on posting!

I am a member on budget, Audio, and oil forums but really am only active here.

[Gnarly4X]

I am a member on budget, Audio, and oil forums but really am only active here.

I didn't mean to imply I was MEMBER of hundreds of forums, just that I have perused and spent time doing research on them.  I've probably been an actual participating member of a 12 or so.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

UPDATE FEB 13 2018

I drove my 33 year old truck to work yesterday. 

GREAT NEWS!!  NO MORE TRANSMISSION GEAR OIL LEAK!  The little drops of oil that was leaking after 50 or 60 miles after re-installing the input shaft seal and housing gasket must have been because the seal needed to seat on the shaft tighter.  I don't know why it would leak otherwise.

I was naturally analyzing it as I drove it.  It's bumpy, noisy, and the steering wants to "hunt". My next fix is the power steering gear box leak. I'll check the toe-in.  I like sitting up high again. I feel safer in it than my little Corolla.  I drive 75 miles a day – 95% is freeway. I miss the comfortable features of the Corolla – automatic transmission, cruise control, blue-tooth cell phone, touch screen panel, very nice stereo sound, and AC (the XtraCab AC needs re-charged).

I'll know what kind of gas mileage it's getting at about 1,000 miles into the break-in by next Tuesday. Here in AZ we have 87, 89, and 91 octane gas.  I'm running 89 octane in the tank.  I'm working at driving for good gas mileage.  I still need to do some fine tuning and fix the cold start issue.  I will swap the KYB shocks for some smoother riding ones.

The poor aerodynamics of the truck, plus being under powered, makes driving up grades and into head winds noticeable at the gas pedal.  Yesterday afternoon I drove into a 20 to 25 MPH head wind and a slight up grade on the freeway.  At 3,200 RPM in 5th gear I'm doing 78 MPH. With the speed limit 75, I'm right where I like to be.  BUT... I had to get into the gas throttle more with the head wind, so I shifted down to 4th and 3,000 RPM, which allowed me to get back out of throttle.

It's fun to drive and gets lots of looks.

Gnarls.

[blackdiamond]

I would assume that the looks are all people wondering what cam it has.

[:)bestgen4runner]

I would assume that the looks are all people wondering what cam it has.

[Gnarly4X]

I would assume that the looks are all people wondering what cam it has.

Hey blackdiamond, is that a "funny"? 

I don't think the "looks" have anything to do with the engnbldr 261C cam.  It's the fact that it's in incredibly nice condition for a 33 year old Toyota truck, and it's completely stock looking.  I get compliments quite frequently from guys (and gals) where ever I park and get out.  There appears to be a culture of people who appreciate early vehicles in outstanding condition.   Just like the auto enthusiast sub-cultures for many vehicles, there is obviously one for old Toyota trucks and 4Runners.

Here in AZ there are MANY people, and lots of women, who drive pickups. 

Gnarls. 

[Gnarly4X]

Hi bgen,

I know you have poo-poo'd the engnbldr 261C camshaft.  I don't have anything to validly compare this cam with anything else, other than the historical feedback over the years from guys you have installed it, and the Engine Analyzer data that I have compiled, and of course my conversations with Tod and reading years of Ted's posts on several Toyota forums. 

I can say that right now at just under 1,000 miles on this break-in, the engine is running great (I still have to get the cold start problem fixed and do a fine tune). As I have posted, the torque range is significant from about 2,000 thru 4500 RPMs, especially 1st thru 3rd gears.  The engine will easily rev to 5,500 now in 1st and 2nd gears, and will pull hard to 5,000 in 1st gear.  The engine seems really happy at around 3,200 RPMs in 5th gear, but it wants to go 3,500 in 5th gear.  It has a very noticeable throttle response from 2,500 to 3,500. So the power increase I have always been interested in for my 22s is in this exact range, which is where I use 90% of my drive time. 

With 31" tires and stock 4.10 ring & pinions, my gearing is perfect for street and highway. 

So far I'm very happy with the performance, and it is very close to what I expected.

Gnarls.

[blackdiamond]

Hey blackdiamond, is that a "funny"? 

I would assume that you understood the intended humor, but...

I don't think the "looks" have anything to do with the engnbldr 261C cam.  It's the fact that it's in incredibly nice condition for a 33 year old Toyota truck, and it's completely stock looking.  I get compliments quite frequently from guys (and gals) where ever I park and get out.  There appears to be a culture of people who appreciate early vehicles in outstanding condition.   Just like the auto enthusiast sub-cultures for many vehicles, there is obviously one for old Toyota trucks and 4Runners.

...then you go into a long explanation about why you think you get so many looks.

I had the opportunity in my teenage years to get behind the wheel of a canary yellow 1970 Plymouth Superbird, the one with the giant wing.  You want to talk about getting looks.  We had people coming up to the window to chat in the middle of a four lane highway when we got stopped at a light.  They didn't seem to know what it was, but knew it was something worth being noticed.

[Gnarly4X]

I would assume that you understood the intended humor, but...

Yep... got it... only took a couple brain cells! 

...then you go into a long explanation about why you think you get so many looks.

So... you don't post any looooooonnnnngggg explanations? 

Gnarls. 

[blackdiamond]

So... you don't post any looooooonnnnngggg explanations? 

It just seemed unnecessary to explain why people might be gawking at your truck in response to a friendly jab about your cam selection.

[Gnarly4X]

It just seemed unnecessary to explain why people might be gawking at your truck in response to a friendly jab about your cam selection.

Hey blackdiamond,

Geezz.. I did not mean to get into a psychoanalytical discussion about what is humor, when should we identify it, and what our response should be?

I got what I interpreted as a joke about my camshaft.  The 261C cam has been actively and emphatically discussed and debated for as far back as I remember it being available.  When I decided on it, I also figured I would find myself engaged in some very interesting conversations.

Regarding my "novel" post, I thought I'd just take the opportunity to promote the idea that a 33 year Toyota 4x4, with it's legendary status, in very nice stock condition can be eye-candy for some people.  Quite frankly, I AM surprised at how times my truck has evoked a comment to me about it.

So in the realm of the early Toyota 4x4 universe, I am very happy that our trucks and 4Runners are still a valued, if not highly prized, automotive creation.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

UPDATE FEB 16 2018

I filled the fuel tank at 227.6 miles with 89 Octane again.  It took only 11.97 gallons.  That's 19.01 MPG.

I thought I'd get a little better MPG.  I think it should get better than that.

I'm running at freeway speed mostly at about 3200 RPMs and 78 to 80 MPH in 5th gear.  No AC.

I'll run this tank and check the mileage again.  I'll back off to 75 MPH and see what difference it makes.

Gnarls. 

[emsvitil]

Winter air is thicker and harder to drive thru........

[Gnarly4X]

Winter air is thicker and harder to drive thru........

Yes.. but the higher relative humidity should improve the AFR for a better burn.

Gnarls.

[:)bestgen4runner]

UPDATE FEB 16 2018

I filled the fuel tank at 227.6 miles with 89 Octane again.  It took only 11.97 gallons.  That's 19.01 MPG.

I thought I'd get a little better MPG.  I think it should get better than that.

I'm running at freeway speed mostly at about 3200 RPMs and 78 to 80 MPH in 5th gear.  No AC.

I'll run this tank and check the mileage again.  I'll back off to 75 MPH and see what difference it makes.

Gnarls. 

Aerodynamics and the wind wall.
Your just like coal trickle. Take her down to 60-65 and You will see a big mileage jump.

[blackdiamond]

Aerodynamics and the wind wall.
Your just like coal trickle. Take her down to 60-65 and You will see a big mileage jump.

Taker her down to 87 octane and you'll likely get the same mileage for less money.  Disclaimer: I run premium in the 4Runner because I think it runs smoother though I know there's no reason that it should.

My 4Runner pretty much runs in the 15-17 mpg range no matter if I'm cruising around town or going fast on the highway.

[Gnarly4X]

Taker her down to 87 octane and you'll likely get the same mileage for less money.  Disclaimer: I run premium in the 4Runner because I think it runs smoother though I know there's no reason that it should.

My 4Runner pretty much runs in the 15-17 mpg range no matter if I'm cruising around town or going fast on the highway.

I understand wind resistance and gas mileage and gasoline octane rating BTUs.

My Corolla averages 31.5 MPG at average freeway 80 MPH.  If I drop down to 75 MPH average, the MPG goes up to 32.5.

Here's my thinking .....

I travel a freeway in the dark most of the year.  The 10 Freeway (75 MPH Speed Limit) is an extremely busy freeway stretch between Phoenix and Tucson.  It has a high rate of accidents and most involve fatalities.  Semis roll along at 75 and 80+ MPH.  At 79 MPH cars and trucks will blow by me often.  I drive about 79 MPH because it is heavily patrolled by AZ DPS and the Indian Reservation Police.  Driving at speeds less the 75 I will have vehicles running up behind me often and it's a little unsettling during my 40 to 50 minute drive time each way from Home-to-Work-to-Home.

At this point in my very early engine mileage, I have tried 87, 89, and 91, and I can't notice any difference.  I tried different octane fuel originally to see if I could detect and pre-ignition since I don't for sure what the compression ratio is.  BUT, with the 22RE, it's more difficult to detect pinging because of the knock sensor.  MammaECU will mess with the ignition timing, which could mess with the power.

The difference in my out of pocket cost for fuel for 12 months, or about 20,000 miles per year, between octane rating is insignificant to me, but I'm always curious, and I track every tank of fuel.

I realize that this engine rebuild is a bigger displacement, bigger valves, and has a more aggressive cam profile - producing more power, so practically it should NOT get the same MPG as a 22RE in factory stock form, right?

My concern is simply getting MammaECU happy with whatever octane gasoline she likes, while tuning it for top performance.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Aerodynamics and the wind wall.
Your just like coal trickle. Take her down to 60-65 and You will see a big mileage jump.

Hey bgen,

If I take her down to 60-65 my heart will go into arterial fibrillation!.... 

Way too dangerous at that speed on my freeway drive. 

Geezz... I hope I don't end up like D-i-c-k Trickle (the guy who's character, Cole Trickle, was taken for the moive Days of Thunder) did... he committed suicide. 

But apparently he loved to go fast. 

Gnarls. 

[emsvitil]

You can also play with the base timing...........

Somewhere on the internet, someone has probably figured out how to see if the knock sensor is being activated and the ECU is retarding timing..


The Airflow meter has some adjustments (I recall a thread here once upon a time)

and

you can fake out the ECU by adding a resistor to the thermistor so the ECU thinks  it's colder (timing is advanced)

[Gnarly4X]

You can also play with the base timing...........

Somewhere on the internet, someone has probably figured out how to see if the knock sensor is being activated and the ECU is retarding timing..


The Airflow meter has some adjustments (I recall a thread here once upon a time)

and

you can fake out the ECU by adding a resistor to the thermistor so the ECU thinks  it's colder (timing is advanced)

Thanks e!  Yeah, I'm going to play around with the ignition timing. I still have to figure out how to get it to cold start with the proper fast idle at start up.  My first 86 22RE would start up instantly without touching the gas pedal.

Mudder had to replace his time switch, as I remember, to fix his cold start.

I could not find one on RockAuto?

Gnarls.

[:)bestgen4runner]

I suspect Idle air bypass. Does it fast idle?

[Gnarly4X]

I suspect Idle air bypass. Does it fast idle?

No, it won't fast idle at cold start.

Gnarls.

[:)bestgen4runner]

No, it won't fast idle at cold start.

Gnarls.

now I really think it's an idle air bypass issue.

[Gnarly4X]

now I really think it's an idle air bypass issue.

Oh crap! Toyota is REALLY proud of THAT part!!

Gnarls.

[emsvitil]

You can take the timer apart, clean it up/fixit and reseal it to make it work again.

Unfortunately my pics of doing this are on photobucket.......



The cold idle valve will fail with a fast idle

[:)bestgen4runner]

You can take the timer apart, clean it up/fixit and reseal it to make it work again.

Unfortunately my pics of doing this are on photobucket.......



The cold idle valve will fail with a fast idle

My experience is the exact opposite
fails with no fats idle at all

[emsvitil]

Might depend on year.

The 86 uses a bimetallic strip to close down the air flow.

The electric heating element fails and doesn't heat up the bimetallic strip.