Author Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild  (Read 188915 times)

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Gnarly4X

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1200 on: Jan 20, 2018, 06:42:25 PM »
Probably just for O2 sensor accessibility when the header is in the truck.........

Yes, I thought the same thing.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2018, 06:55:14 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1201 on: Jan 20, 2018, 06:43:36 PM »
With the O2 sensor that far down the tubes, I'd consider retrofitting a heated sensor (3 wire is fine) if you haven't already for low speed/idle driveability.

I put a 3wire in my stock manifold and it helped (for replacement of a no-name brand sensor)
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1202 on: Jan 20, 2018, 06:52:14 PM »
In theory all four cylinders should function identically.  The tubes are set up such that the two cylinders being collected are not in order allowing time for the exhaust to pass before the next round.  I would assume that they chose the bung location because it was on the outside pipe and by having it in a tube with only two cylinders allows it to measure the exhaust during a fire and also in the "pause" giving reading over the entire spectrum.

Interesting...

I see a potential failure with only sensing and reporting 2 cylinder exhaust gases.  If cylinder 1 or 4 has a combustion issue… ignition, fuel mixture, compression, valve leak, head gasket leak, will the ECU “see” it?  :dunno:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1203 on: Jan 20, 2018, 07:05:38 PM »
With the O2 sensor that far down the tubes, I'd consider retrofitting a heated sensor (3 wire is fine) if you haven't already for low speed/idle driveability.

I put a 3wire in my stock manifold and it helped (for replacement of a no-name brand sensor)

Yes, I think this has been done on a 22RE.

I need to do more research... I believe Roger Brown, 4Crawler, has posted some incredible info on this stuff.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1204 on: Jan 20, 2018, 07:19:15 PM »
Interesting...

I see a potential failure with only sensing and reporting 2 cylinder exhaust gases.  If cylinder 1 or 4 has a combustion issue… ignition, fuel mixture, compression, valve leak, head gasket leak, will the ECU “see” it?  :dunno:

Gnarls.

No
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1205 on: Jan 20, 2018, 07:21:30 PM »
Another modification.

I'd add a ground wire to the O2 sensor flange bolt to make sure you have a good ground.
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1206 on: Jan 20, 2018, 10:04:48 PM »
If you want to do it right.
You will need to have an o2 sensor bung installed after the collector. This way your Ecu will have an accurate sample from all 4 cylinders.
I have run that header both ways. Provided location and downstream.
Down stream required the addition of a heated 02 sensor but once completed ot works much better and more accurate.
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1207 on: Jan 21, 2018, 02:34:25 AM »
If you want to do it right.
You will need to have an o2 sensor bung installed after the collector. This way your Ecu will have an accurate sample from all 4 cylinders.
I have run that header both ways. Provided location and downstream.
Down stream required the addition of a heated 02 sensor but once completed ot works much better and more accurate.


Hey bgen,

Yeah, that makes sense. 

I assume that this header design has been installed in 1000s of engine since the 22RE was introduced in Toy trucks.  If there was some kind of issue regarding O2 sensor mis-readings due to only reporting 2 cylinders, I think it would be known.

So... for now I'm going with what it is and monitor any codes or other strange things.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Jan 21, 2018, 02:42:37 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

redneckcustoms13

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1208 on: Jan 21, 2018, 09:01:30 AM »
Happy late birthday gnarls
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
01 double cab hunting truck
06 tacoma street truck

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1209 on: Jan 21, 2018, 09:47:27 AM »
Hey bgen,

Yeah, that makes sense. 

I assume that this header design has been installed in 1000s of engine since the 22RE was introduced in Toy trucks.  If there was some kind of issue regarding O2 sensor mis-readings due to only reporting 2 cylinders, I think it would be known.

So... for now I'm going with what it is and monitor any codes or other strange things.

Gnarls.
I will reserve the right to say “I told You so”
For the ? Third time? Maybe fourth time?

I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1210 on: Jan 21, 2018, 01:17:45 PM »
Happy late birthday gnarls

Hey redneckcustoms13,

Thank you! 

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

300k

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1211 on: Jan 21, 2018, 03:02:01 PM »
You wanna trade that Thorley for my stock manifold now? Heard you were looking for one lol
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken...

emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1212 on: Jan 21, 2018, 04:41:07 PM »
Happy late birthday gnarls

Is it late?


Happy Birthday          (close enough  :dunno:)


 :woohoo:
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1213 on: Jan 22, 2018, 02:11:02 AM »
I will reserve the right to say “I told You so”
For the ? Third time? Maybe fourth time?



bgen....you know me... trust but verify.  :gap:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1214 on: Jan 22, 2018, 02:12:20 AM »
Is it late?


Happy Birthday          (close enough  :dunno:)


 :woohoo:

No.. you are not late.. yesterday, Jan 21 was my Birthday.  Thank you!!

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1215 on: Jan 22, 2018, 02:15:23 AM »
You wanna trade that Thorley for my stock manifold now? Heard you were looking for one lol

 :haha:  You are way late to the party!!  :shake:

Gnarls.  :spin:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1216 on: Jan 22, 2018, 02:49:56 AM »
I get it.........

You bought yourself a birthday present.


 :yupyup:
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1217 on: Jan 22, 2018, 10:23:22 AM »
I get it.........

You bought yourself a birthday present.


 :yupyup:

Yes sir.... I did!! Happy birthday toooooo mmmmeeee!!   :clap:

Gnarls. :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1218 on: Jan 22, 2018, 07:05:58 PM »
Newly rebuilt 22RE, bored .020 over, compression ratio estimated at 9.46:1, engnbldr head with oversize valves, 261C Crawler cam.

Is 2.25” tubing - with the Doug Thorley header and 18” MagnaFlow muffler - the right size tubing?

Should all bends in tubing be mandrel bent?

I want my performance gain to be in the RPM range of 2500 to 3500.

I want more torque.

The gain in horse power at 5000 is less important for my driving style and need.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1219 on: Jan 22, 2018, 07:09:03 PM »
I think for the application mandrel bent isn't worth it. Yes, there is some crushing when it is bent the other way but it’s not like you are trying to push massive horsepower out of it. The gains of mandrel bent will be very marginal.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1220 on: Jan 22, 2018, 07:24:41 PM »
No wrinkle bends.

A trick is to go up 1 tubing size for non-mandrel bends.

Do they have 2.375" pipes,   that would be perfect for going up a size....     


The tubing crush won't matter after the muffler,  exhaust gas has cooled and there's less volume.
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1221 on: Jan 22, 2018, 07:49:15 PM »
Flip thr header and run it open. That should have a gain
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken...

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1222 on: Jan 23, 2018, 03:38:56 AM »
Flip thr header and run it open. That should have a gain

299k… you locked your engine building thread because people were posting dilly dilly – a funny -  4 times instead of asking questions?  ::)

You post a funny here, which I enjoy.  A good sense of humor is an admirable personality trait.  :greengrin:

Do I sense a little hypocrisy?  :headscratch:

Gnarls.  :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

300k

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1223 on: Jan 23, 2018, 10:24:37 AM »
299k… you locked your engine building thread because people were posting dilly dilly – a funny -  4 times instead of asking questions?  ::)

You post a funny here, which I enjoy.  A good sense of humor is an admirable personality trait.  :greengrin:

Do I sense a little hypocrisy?  :headscratch:

Gnarls.  :gap:


Go look at Sassparilla_kid's rebuild. The first two pages are people arguing about the 84 85 86 changeover years. Poor guy is just trying to rebuild an engine and theres half the forum clogging up his thread
« Last Edit: Jan 23, 2018, 04:00:15 PM by 300k »
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken...

Gillesdetrail

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1224 on: Jan 23, 2018, 05:20:38 PM »
Newly rebuilt 22RE, bored .020 over, compression ratio estimated at 9.46:1, engnbldr head with oversize valves, 261C Crawler cam.

Is 2.25” tubing - with the Doug Thorley header and 18” MagnaFlow muffler - the right size tubing?

Should all bends in tubing be mandrel bent?

I want my performance gain to be in the RPM range of 2500 to 3500.

I want more torque.

The gain in horse power at 5000 is less important for my driving style and need.

Gnarls.

If you haven't seen this you may find it interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PVXvHkr-Vs&list=PLGvTvFzdMg_O2T3UdUEt5dIHutSOu7srE&index=21

I too think that for your application it won't make a noticeable difference between crush bends and mandrel, especially at the lower end of the powerband, and that 2.25" will be fine. If you put on a 4x9 oval magnaflow muffler I suggest adding a 14'' resonator to quiet it down and to mellow the tone.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1225 on: Jan 23, 2018, 06:29:22 PM »
If you haven't seen this you may find it interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PVXvHkr-Vs&list=PLGvTvFzdMg_O2T3UdUEt5dIHutSOu7srE&index=21

I too think that for your application it won't make a noticeable difference between crush bends and mandrel, especially at the lower end of the powerband, and that 2.25" will be fine. If you put on a 4x9 oval magnaflow muffler I suggest adding a 14'' resonator to quiet it down and to mellow the tone.

Hey G,

Thank you for sharing.

I don’t recall seeing that video - very interesting.  The resulting engine dyno test is pretty typical from what I’ve read and researched in my past.

There’s a couple differences between that engine and a 100 HP 22RE.  First, carb vs EFI and secondly - WOT vs. street driven.  So I have LOTS of questions regarding a comparison.

So far, two 22RE engine builders have stated that 2.25” exhaust with the DT header is about right, and that mandrel bent tubing vs compression bent tubing will not be a noticeable factor in my exhaust system and engine.

I am concerned about the exhaust system being too loud, so I will want to have the option of retro-fitting another muffler if the 18” MagnaFlow muffler is too loud – at no extra cost.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1226 on: Jan 23, 2018, 06:38:57 PM »
Go look at Sassparilla_kid's rebuild. The first two pages are people arguing about the 84 85 86 changeover years. Poor guy is just trying to rebuild an engine and theres half the forum clogging up his thread

299k...

If you start a “build” thread on a public forum and expect completely and exclusively linear replies – you are delusional.

I've said it before... the very BEST threads I've read have multiple tangential, emotional, highly debated and protracted discussions. 

That's only my experience on automotive forums since 1999... yours may be different.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :spin:


« Last Edit: Jan 23, 2018, 06:46:04 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

300k

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1227 on: Jan 23, 2018, 06:46:23 PM »
299k...

If you start a “build” thread on a public forum and expect completely and exclusively linear replies – you are delusional.

I've said it before... the very BEST threads I've read have multiple tangential, emotional, highly debated and protracted discussions.

Gnarls.

maybe so, but I can go to any of your 41 pages and at least a large chunk of the page will be off topic. I don't like having a build page where the first page is half derailed with "dilly dilly" and external links about what "dilly dilly" is.
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken...

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1228 on: Jan 23, 2018, 06:54:52 PM »
maybe so, but I can go to any of your 41 pages and at least a large chunk of the page will be off topic. I don't like having a build page where the first page is half derailed with "dilly dilly" and external links about what "dilly dilly" is.

My build thread is one of THE most reviewed.... so it must not be too boring, cluttered, or derailed.  :dunno:

 I like the dilly dilly's in my thread!!  :gap:

In fact, I think every thread should at least a couple dilly dilly's.   :best:

Gnarls.  dilly dilly. :beerchug:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gillesdetrail

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1229 on: Jan 23, 2018, 06:55:41 PM »
I have a doug thorley header, 20/22r ported, o/s valve, stock cam and comp. I have switched from 2.5'' OD exhaust to 2" ID with no noticeable difference in any driving condition, exept for WOT below 2500 rpms which I couldn't test for carb related reasons which I fixed just before ripping the front suspension hangers off the frame in the trails.

As for EFI vs carb and exhaust tuning, I agree there are differences but it is still about harmonics. The differences will be much less noticeable on a 100 hp 22re between 2.25" vs 2.5" or mandrel vs crushed. For best results there are aways engine analyser softwares as engine pro which will calculate the best exhaust specs acording to intake manifold design, runner length, cam spec, displacement, wave tuning etc etc. I have never used such softwares but they are very popular in more advanced or competition builds.

 
 
 
 
 

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