Author Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild  (Read 181004 times)

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blackdiamond

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #990 on: Oct 19, 2017, 07:50:48 PM »
That trick didn't work!!  :moon:

I tried it about 12 times just to make sure it absolutely would NOT work.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :inthedark:

Then I submit that it’s not an engine noise.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #991 on: Oct 19, 2017, 08:23:31 PM »
they currently dont have my cam but this "new" version would probably work well without clearancing the pistons
http://www.lceperformance.com/Stage-2-Camshaft-20R-22R-RE-RET-p/1022036.htm
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #992 on: Oct 20, 2017, 04:36:34 AM »
they currently dont have my cam but this "new" version would probably work well without clearancing the pistons
http://www.lceperformance.com/Stage-2-Camshaft-20R-22R-RE-RET-p/1022036.htm

Hmmmm... well... I don't think that cam will work in a stock 22RE.  At 9.6 degrees of overlap, Mama ECU will throw a fit.

I can see it working in modified 22R.  For the $900+ LCE wants to properly install it... I'd consider another option for power gain.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #993 on: Oct 20, 2017, 04:49:30 AM »
Yay, back on the build!

Any thoughts on the 261 cam and what your plans are on that end.

I'm at 5k-ish miles on the rebuild and I am loving my setup. I have also driven my buddies rig a few times on big road trips (which is a recent rebuild with 35k miles, DT/open exhaust and a 252 cam) and my truck is just destroying it on all fronts. Better pickup and better mpgs, and quieter valve train. Granted, it is a bit apples to oranges since he is running 33's and 410's, and I am 35s / 529s. I still have to do my first valve adjustment after the rebuild so I am hoping to gain a littler performance there.

I don't think your comparison is fair... definitely apples-oranges.  Your gear ratio puts the RPMs way closer to the happy torque numbers the 261C touts.

4.10's and 33's is going to be noticeably sluggish compared to 5.29's and 35's!

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

79coyotefrg

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #994 on: Oct 24, 2017, 01:22:53 AM »
Hmmmm... well... I don't think that cam will work in a stock 22RE.  At 9.6 degrees of overlap, Mama ECU will throw a fit.

I can see it working in modified 22R.  For the $900+ LCE wants to properly install it... I'd consider another option for power gain.

Gnarls.

I totally forgot you had efi.
http://www.lceperformance.com/EFI-Pro-Camshaft-22RE-RET-p/1022021.htm
$900  what you smokin??
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #995 on: Oct 24, 2017, 03:23:17 AM »
I totally forgot you had efi.
http://www.lceperformance.com/EFI-Pro-Camshaft-22RE-RET-p/1022021.htm
$900  what you smokin??

Hey 79coyotefrg,

I quit smok'n about 50 years ago.  But, at my age any mistake I make I have any number of excuses!

I got my quick calculations from LCE's site:

Stage 2 Cam - $199.95
Pro Camshaft Kit - $278.00 (highly recommended by LCE)
Rocker Arms - 34.95 x 8 = 279.60 (without the rack - LCE will not warranty the cam without these)
Sales Tax 7.85% =   $59.47                                                                                                                               
Shipping $75.00 (guessimate)
Estimated Total:  $ 892.00 

I rounded it up to $900 in my head.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Oct 24, 2017, 03:29:17 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #996 on: Oct 24, 2017, 07:09:05 PM »
UPDATE:  October 24, 2017

W-56 1986 transmission input shaft housing.

I thought I’d share this information for those that may be interested.

I realize that the subject of sealants and gasket RTVs appears to be a personal choice based on individual experience.

In the absence of my own personal experience, I tend to go with the “technical experts” and the people who use the products in their businesses.

Permatex Ultra Grey is used by Marlin...

https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/chemicals/silicone-ultra-gray

For this application, Permatex Ultra Grey is recommended by the Technical Service Manager/Associate Innovations Manager at Permatex for the gasket and housing plate.  He recommended Permatex Thread Sealant with PTFE for the bolt threads because the bolts/threads are in contact with the gear lube inside the case.

He also said to allow 24 hours before filling the transmission with gear oil to allow the sealants to cure properly.

My research also showed that the specification for Toyota part numbers for a number of sealants that Toyota recommends is covered in the Permatex Ultra Grey specification.

I believe that Toyota’s Orange FIPG sealant RTV is an excellent and logical choice.  However, the availability is limited and about 90% more expensive than the Permatex alternative.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-82194-High-Torque-Silicone-Gasket/dp/B000HBGI8K/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1508894948&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=Permatex+Ultra+Greay

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80631-Thread-Sealant-PTFE/dp/B000BKEBT0

I highly recommend that any time you drop the transmission that you replace the input shaft seal and gasket if it has not been recently replaced.  For the cost of the seal and gasket $13.40, the Ultra Grey - $7.99, the Thread Sealant w/PTFE - $5.29 – for me it’s just not worth having to drop the tranny again to fix the leak from the seal, gasket, or bolts.  The leaking gear oil onto the bottom of the bell housing got blown around and onto the pressure plate, clutch disc, and flywheel.  I am replacing the clutch disc.

Gnarls.



« Last Edit: Oct 25, 2017, 03:22:24 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

andykrow

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #997 on: Oct 29, 2017, 01:11:37 PM »
Welp, I did my valve lash today, and Gnarly, you get a gold star!  :clap:

As a reminder this is a new engnbldr Street RV head with a new 261C cam. Reused the rockers as they were in perfect shape and just got polished up a bit.

All exhaust valves and two of the intake valves were tight by 001. It should be no surprise that the 1 and 4 intakes were at spec, considering they will actually be a bit loose if the base circle technique is not used (which i doubt it was.)

Now, for the really surprising part, after I got everything to spec (used base circle on 1 and 4 intake) and buttoned her back up, my idle RPM was sitting at 1350. That's a good 500 higher than it was set before. Taking her for a test drive I am feeling noticeably more low end power, and seemingly more midrange judging from a couple hills I pulled. She kinda wants to jump off the line now. Above 3000 seems to be about the same (which is to say, awesome  :shades: ) Will need to road test a bit more to confirm.

Now, another surprise, I can get the idle down to 750 - where it should be - without the rough shaking that was happening before. I felt before that I was getting a miss down that low so I set the idle to 850 or 900 to smooth it out. That is no longer necessary. The idle sounds a lot smoother too, whereas before there was sort of a "chug" happening, which, though it sounded cool, is not normal for a 22re in my experience.

So, my feeling here is 001 off on the lash is probably not enough to burn a valve and isn't dangerous (Although I guess I really have nothing to back that up...). Clearly however, there are massive performance differences to be had with this cam. I wonder how much of the hate for this cam could be resolved with a very precise lash setting.

Other note, the lobes definitely do not line up perfectly with the rocker pads. All of the pads had complete contact - none were going past the edge of the lobes - but several were pretty close to the edge. I do not have a stocker to look at right now so I am not sure if they are supposed to be perfectly centered? In any case I can't see it being a problem. My cam lobes seem to be in perfect shape, no scoring or discoloration or anything. I guess I got the break-in correct.

My machinist who built the motor never said anything about the lobes, and he builds a lot of 22res, so I wonder if they are just never really centered and it isn't a problem.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #998 on: Oct 29, 2017, 06:38:02 PM »
Welp, I did my valve lash today, and Gnarly, you get a gold star!  :clap:

As a reminder this is a new engnbldr Street RV head with a new 261C cam. Reused the rockers as they were in perfect shape and just got polished up a bit.

All exhaust valves and two of the intake valves were tight by 001. It should be no surprise that the 1 and 4 intakes were at spec, considering they will actually be a bit loose if the base circle technique is not used (which i doubt it was.)

Now, for the really surprising part, after I got everything to spec (used base circle on 1 and 4 intake) and buttoned her back up, my idle RPM was sitting at 1350. That's a good 500 higher than it was set before. Taking her for a test drive I am feeling noticeably more low end power, and seemingly more midrange judging from a couple hills I pulled. She kinda wants to jump off the line now. Above 3000 seems to be about the same (which is to say, awesome  :shades: ) Will need to road test a bit more to confirm.

Now, another surprise, I can get the idle down to 750 - where it should be - without the rough shaking that was happening before. I felt before that I was getting a miss down that low so I set the idle to 850 or 900 to smooth it out. That is no longer necessary. The idle sounds a lot smoother too, whereas before there was sort of a "chug" happening, which, though it sounded cool, is not normal for a 22re in my experience.

So, my feeling here is 001 off on the lash is probably not enough to burn a valve and isn't dangerous (Although I guess I really have nothing to back that up...). Clearly however, there are massive performance differences to be had with this cam. I wonder how much of the hate for this cam could be resolved with a very precise lash setting.

Other note, the lobes definitely do not line up perfectly with the rocker pads. All of the pads had complete contact - none were going past the edge of the lobes - but several were pretty close to the edge. I do not have a stocker to look at right now so I am not sure if they are supposed to be perfectly centered? In any case I can't see it being a problem. My cam lobes seem to be in perfect shape, no scoring or discoloration or anything. I guess I got the break-in correct.

My machinist who built the motor never said anything about the lobes, and he builds a lot of 22res, so I wonder if they are just never really centered and it isn't a problem.

Hey andykrow,

Welll.. I’m not sure I deserve a GOLD star… Thank you.

Ohhh... Wait…. Didn’t a couple of experts here say the valve lash doesn’t go “tight”????  :_oops:

I spent many hours testing and experimenting with the valve lash on my 1985 22R, so all I have to go on is just MY limited experience.

And yes, valve lash adjustment CAN affect performance. 

Here's a quick FAQ:   http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/threads/comp-cams-quick-tech-video-how-to-set-valve-lash.4986/

I think H8PVMNT will back me up on this… the carb’d engines respond to very small changes that you can feel in your butt dyno.  The 22RE, with mamaCPU and her over-priced sensors tend to “control” the changes, and programmed to modulate the best gas mileage and emissions control, to name few things she does.  I'm not saying the 22RE is bad, I’m saying from my experience I could feel the changes I made with my 22R WAY more than I can feel the changes with both of my 22REs.

So what lash did you end up with?

Have you been able to calculate any accurate gas mileage?

On idle RPM, my 22RE, thus far likes the idle about 900, and I’m OK with that.  And I believe that is because of the overlap in the 261C cam.

I'm very glad you are getting what you are out of that engine and combo…. Great job!!  I'm envious at this point.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Oct 29, 2017, 07:03:09 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #999 on: Oct 29, 2017, 08:06:32 PM »
UPDATE:  10-29-17 PM

I installed the new seal and gasket on the throw-out bearing/input shaft housing.  I really like the Thread Sealant.  I wish I had used it on the timing cover bolts. It’s a little more fluid than the Ultra Grey.

I rubbed a little tiny bit of wheel bearing grease on the outer edge of the seal, and pressed it gently into the housing with a 32mm socket, tapped it gently with a rubber hammer to seat it..  I used Ultra Grey on the gasket and torqued the 7 bolts down.  I went over the torque spec because the spec did not seem tight enough. Same for bell housing bolts to transmission – I went passed the FSM torque spec of  27 ft. bls.

I hope to have this tranny back in on Wednesday.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2017, 03:37:59 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

andykrow

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1000 on: Oct 29, 2017, 08:40:56 PM »
Didn’t a couple of experts here say the valve lash doesn’t go “tight”????  :_oops:

Haha that is precisely why YOU get the gold star!

I set it to engnbldr’s spec, 007 in and 009 out. I would say I was around 006/008 before I adjusted it.

I’ve done valve lash more times than I can count on stock motors. But those were nearly always on the loose side if I remember correctly. I never really noticed any performance gains, just a quiter valvetrain.

The last time I checked a highway tank for mpgs I pulled 23.5. It’s been a while though. With winter coming it may be a while before another long road trip happens so it might not be until spring when I can check out a full highway tank for mpg. I can say my in-town mileage is not great. Probably more like 15 or 16. I will check that on the next tank. I do enjoying getting in it with this motor, so I’m not really trying to be efficient with the gas, haha. And with 35s, it is never going to be great around town.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

blackdiamond

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1001 on: Oct 29, 2017, 09:44:02 PM »
What’s the tolerance for valve lash?  0.001 is pretty tight and that appears to be what you think the difference was.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1002 on: Oct 30, 2017, 04:56:44 AM »
What’s the tolerance for valve lash?  0.001 is pretty tight and that appears to be what you think the difference was.

That is a good question.

It appears from what I know valve lash settings do NOT show a plus or minus number.  The lash specs are in one thousandths of an inch, and are VERY specific to the camshaft profile.  Engine Analyzer only allows a 3 digit number for valve lash setting/adjustment.

So, can .001” make a difference in valve events… obviously it does.  On my 22s, .001” made a difference to my ears when tuning for smooth, balanced, and quieter rocker noise.  On my 22R, the valve lash setting changes on my stock Toy cam were slight, but noticeable.

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless. :gap:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1003 on: Oct 30, 2017, 07:22:52 AM »
Well it makes sense.  It all cam timing.  Tighter would be sooner in and later out, not to mention more valve lift.
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1004 on: Oct 30, 2017, 08:07:42 AM »
When we are only talking about 7 thousandths to begin with, being off 001 in either direction is a significant amount. Perhaps I will email engnbldr and get their thoughts on this.

The only other thing I can think of is that perhaps my pcv valve was stuck open, and jostling around the valve cover freed it up? Seems unlikely though. I would think just driving rough off road stuff would shake that thing around more than pulling the valve cover. That is really the only thing that could have changed in between setting the lash.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

andykrow

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1005 on: Oct 30, 2017, 08:42:32 AM »
Just got into work, and I have to say the drivability difference is shocking. Stop signs I can take off in second now with smooth acceleration (after the slowest of roll-throughs  ;) ) and in general there is just way more of that low-end grunt that I am supposed to be feeling. Idle is great now, 750 rpm and smooth as butter. The shifter used to just shake like crazy at idle and now it's rock solid. Definitely seeming like there was a miss down there.

So, I would have to say, to anyone with a 261C that they aren't liking - double check that valve lash and set it at 007/009.

I suppose if I was really motivated I could go back in and set all the valves tight and see if the bad behavior comes back, but, meh, i've got other things to do.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1006 on: Oct 30, 2017, 10:34:12 AM »
Just got into work, and I have to say the drivability difference is shocking. Stop signs I can take off in second now with smooth acceleration (after the slowest of roll-throughs  ;) ) and in general there is just way more of that low-end grunt that I am supposed to be feeling. Idle is great now, 750 rpm and smooth as butter. The shifter used to just shake like crazy at idle and now it's rock solid. Definitely seeming like there was a miss down there.

So, I would have to say, to anyone with a 261C that they aren't liking - double check that valve lash and set it at 007/009.

I suppose if I was really motivated I could go back in and set all the valves tight and see if the bad behavior comes back, but, meh, i've got other things to do.

I would be VERY interested in what Ted or Tod has to say about the valve lash!

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

andykrow

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1007 on: Oct 30, 2017, 11:04:18 AM »
Email sent. I will report back.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

andykrow

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1008 on: Oct 30, 2017, 12:19:28 PM »
I told Tod I was about 001 tight on everything, and the experience I had after getting it correct, and he replied:

"yes if the lash is set too tight it can cause the valves to hang open slightly causing slight compression drop
when you loosened them up it allowed the valve to close properly and should have made the engine run smoother which is also why the rpm jumped up slightly as well
sounds like you got it right now and should be fine from here"

Again, I am surprised that just 001 could cause this, mainly because I feel that it is often implied online that within 001 is "close enough" on these motors. I would love for anyone suspecting the 261C to be a problem to go in there and be double sure they are set to 007/009, with the motor hot.

Interesting as well that my lash went to the tight side. Generally it is assumed online that these motors get looser over time, and looser when they are hot compared to cold. Hence to typical "wisdom" to set them 001 tighter if you are setting while the motor is cold.

SIDE NOTE: I love how fast the engnbldr guys respond to emails. It always within an hour or two.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1009 on: Oct 30, 2017, 12:23:50 PM »
So theoretically with a new head, valves and seats, if the valve face squishes down into the valve seat, wouldn't that make the valve lash tighter?  :dunno:

Gnarls.
Correct!
Also turning the key backwards was not the trick.
Is it running again?
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

ExCabSwap

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1010 on: Nov 03, 2017, 12:11:37 AM »
SIDE NOTE: I love how fast the engnbldr guys respond to emails. It always within an hour or two.

It's really cool how service oriented he is in person! I live in Vancouver, so going over to his shop in Portland is a really nice! If anyone has the chance to swing by his machine shop, I'd highly suggest taking advantage of the opportunity! He's a really great guy who knows and loves these engines!
1993 Standard cab chassis. 1989 Extended Cab. 22R-E BO .020, ENGNBLDR 261c cam, Doug Thorley Tri-Y header, Straight Pipe through a Flowmaster 40, ARB Rear Locker, York OBA with fabricated bracket.
Projects waiting in my shop: '83 Front Axle, TG Sliders, second tcase, NEW: XD 4.70 gears!

blackdiamond

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1011 on: Nov 03, 2017, 11:54:43 AM »
Correct!
Also turning the key backwards was not the trick.
Is it running again?

If the engine is running and making noise, then turning the key counterclockwise would most certainly resolve the noise.  Removing the starter will eliminate future occurrences.

:grin:
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1012 on: Nov 04, 2017, 03:55:34 AM »
sorry but you are missing the mark a bit.   

I’m not sure what “mark” is missed?

The optimum valve lash is usually determined by the cam profile and design.  Valve lash can be adjusted to fine tune for desired performance similar to using an adjustable cam gear for tuning cam timing – retard or advance.

The 261C cam has a slightly tighter spec 7/9 than the stock Toy cam 8/12.  And, the 261C cam has the tightest lash spec I’ve seen.  Engbldr’s head and stainless steel over-sized valves may have a tighter tolerance with the 261C cam because stainless steel has a greater thermal expansion property than the carbon steel valves, so the valve lash setting is more critical.

Setting the valve lash on a stock Toyota 22 cam .001” either side of the cam spec should not create any issues on a healthy engine.  On my 22R, when I adjusted my lash loose, the rocker tick increased and I felt a slight increase in torque from off-idle to about 3500 RPMS.  When I tightened the lash, the engine seemed to rev to 5,000 RPM easier and pulled harder after 3500 RPMs. I preferred the lash slightly tight because I liked the quieter rockers and higher end RPMs.  I have not experimented with this cam enough to get a good feel for optimum valve lash setting on my recent 22RE engine rebuild.

So based upon what andykrow has experienced and what Tod said regarding his email questions, there is obviously an optimum lash setting for his combination and engine rebuild.

Gnarls.

« Last Edit: Nov 04, 2017, 04:09:59 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1013 on: Nov 04, 2017, 04:22:15 AM »
Correct!
Also turning the key backwards was not the trick.
Is it running again?

Hey bgen...

I have a new clutch disc, my seal and gasket is installed on the input shaft housing, so tomorrow I hope to get my tranny back in and start driving my truck again to get more miles on this rebuild.  Right now it has a little over 200 miles.

So.... if you want to share your secret "trick".... I'm all ears.. Or you can PM me.

Any help or suggestions regarding the noise I'm hearing that I'm concerned about, and have not figured out what it is, will be appreciated.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

andykrow

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1014 on: Nov 06, 2017, 01:31:32 PM »

Setting them at .007 and .009 is okay but no tighter than that.    Being too loose is just as bad as being too tight.


Huh? I think you're confused about what I was talking about. The 261C cam has a spec of 007 intake and 009 exhaust. The stock cam has a spec of 008/012, not 008/010

The 001 I was referring to was not what the the valve lash was set to, it's how far OFF from the correct setting I was. I checked my lash before I set it, and it was roughly 006/008, that is what I was referring to.

Hence, my surprise that being tighter than spec by only 001 caused such a difference in performance.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

79coyotefrg

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1015 on: Nov 09, 2017, 08:18:45 PM »
my apologies guys I misread your post, I thought you had set them at .001    :smack:
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1016 on: Nov 09, 2017, 08:57:01 PM »
Hey 79coyotefrg,

I quit smok'n about 50 years ago.  But, at my age any mistake I make I have any number of excuses!

I got my quick calculations from LCE's site:

Stage 2 Cam - $199.95
Pro Camshaft Kit - $278.00 (highly recommended by LCE)  only recommended for cams over .450 lift that rev over 6000rpm on a regular basis
Rocker Arms - 34.95 x 8 = 279.60 (without the rack - LCE will not warranty the cam without these)
Sales Tax 7.85% =   $59.47                                                                                                                               
Shipping $75.00 (guessimate)
Estimated Total:  $ 892.00 

I rounded it up to $900 in my head.

Gnarls.
fixed it
WARNING: LCE highly recommends using our Pro Camshaft Kit Part# 1020000 in order to allow proper spring retainer to guide clearance for any cam that has over .450" lift or in any application that requires a sustained RPM of 6,000 or higher. LCE also recommends replacing rocker arms with a new set; Part# 1023015 or a complete rocker assembly Part# 1023018 to avoid any damage to your new camshaft.
« Last Edit: Nov 09, 2017, 09:02:46 PM by 79coyotefrg »
AR-TTORA founder 22R bored.060,LCE stage II race cam http://pure-gas.org/    32/36weber, :driving: Marlin 1200 NON ceramic clutch, L52SHD+dualcase #2919, cable-locker, Yukon 5.29 gears, 35's, Allpro ebrake, front springs, and high steer, F150rears    RIP Nitro 9-29-07 :(  I sure miss him :down: MarlinCrawlerInc IS NOT affiliated with TrailGear in any way

andykrow

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1017 on: Nov 11, 2017, 02:28:02 PM »
my apologies guys I misread your post, I thought you had set them at .001    :smack:

Haha no worries.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

andykrow

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1018 on: Nov 11, 2017, 02:40:21 PM »

Have you been able to calculate any accurate gas mileage?


Just filled it up and I got 18.8 mpg on the last tank.  :thumbs: That is all in-town driving, to and from work. 35 mph tops and a fair amount of stop and go. I am pleased!

I had not yet checked mileage on a in-town tank so I don't know what it was before I set the lash, but I think there is a big improvement. I feel like I got a few extra days before needing to fill up.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1019 on: Nov 11, 2017, 03:29:44 PM »
Hey andykrow,

That's not bad....  :beerchug:

My 85 22R, I could get 19 to 20.  stock except for exhaust.

Gnarls.  :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

 
 
 
 
 

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