Author Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild  (Read 184311 times)

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emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1170 on: Jan 03, 2018, 06:33:20 PM »
I think I just pushed it in until it bottomed, that way I knew it was straight.

What's the thickness of the machined bore (no chamfer) ?
Ed
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86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1171 on: Jan 04, 2018, 03:05:22 AM »
I think I just pushed it in until it bottomed, that way I knew it was straight.

What's the thickness of the machined bore (no chamfer) ?

Hey Ed,

Yep… I agree.  That seems logical.

I realize I over analyzed this seal deal, and I do it more or less for fun, as I enjoy getting into the weeds.  I am not an engine builder, and just a backyard DIYer.  My 14 Toyotas have not given me much chance to practice my auto mechanic skills, so I find myself scratching my head from time to time.  It would be interesting to know what other typical rubber shaft seals are out there that are installed *inverted* from the other 99%?

But… over the years, pouring over service manuals, I have found misinformation, typos, and specs that don’t make sense, and torques specs I disagree with.  When I come across one, in the past I have posted my experience.

The other thing we have learned is that you need to be careful about the information posted on the web… much of it is simply misinformation, anecdotal with no proof, or completely bogus.

The bore depth, seat face to top edge of bore is .490”.  The bore diameter is 1.762”.  The seal diameter is 1.781.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1172 on: Jan 07, 2018, 09:17:57 AM »
UPDATE:  01-14-18

EDITED: 1-14-18 Added Timken
EDITED:  1-9-18- Added Source and SKF comments

DISCLAIMER: The following is my unscientific opinion based upon only my measurements and visual construction, plus about 50+ years as an automotive DIYer.  It may or may not be an accurate evaluation of the performance and function of these 4 seals, manufactured by 4 different brand names and/or sources. I have never compared these 4 seals in actual transmission use or evaluation.

For 1986 Toyota SR5, XtraCab, 22RE, W56B Transmission INPUT SHAFT SEAL.

Timken 1981 – Rock Auto - $5.13 - total with shipping - $8.12
National 1981 – Rock Auto - $4.49 (not including shipping)
SKF 11615 – Rock Auto -  $4.42 (not including shipping).. with shipping for both seals total - $14.89
Toyota 90311-30115 – Toyota Dealer – (List - $14.75 – my price $9.05 (net)

National – O.Diameter - 1.781”, Thickness - .3140”, Spring Dia -.0690”, seal weight - .3 oz
SKF –       O.Diameter – 1.780”, Thickness - .3130”, Spring Dia - .0525”, seal weight - .4 oz
Timken –  O.Diameter – 1.778”, Thickness - .3115”, Spring Dia - .0805”, seal weight - .4 oz
Toyota -    O.Diameter – 1.780”, Thickness - .3150”, Spring Dia- .0790”, seal weight - .5 oz

SOURCES: SKF is designated made in USA, National is designated made in Mexico, Timken – not designated, Toyota – not desgnated.

The *Toyota seal appears identical to the photo in the China Manufacturing site: https://syqp.en.alibaba.com/product/60337857446-802175123/30_45_8_FACTORY_OIL_SEAL_NOK_AE1679H_Nissan_Part_No_32114_Y400.html
*It also shows (Nissan part) the exact same part number on the seal as the Toyota seal.

The measurement of the inside Diameter was difficult to get accurately because of the rubber seal would flex.  I set the caliper for 1.125” for the very lightest feel for the SKF.  I then pushed the calipers inside the other three.  The Toyota was slightly tighter feel.  So the SKF appears to have a larger inside diameter than the National and Toyota. The Timken was very similar to the SFK.

The springs that are providing clamping around the inner most seal contact on the shaft boss are significantly different. The spring for the SKF was very weak and easily popped off and on. The spring for the Toyota seal was noticeably stronger, obviously had more clamping pressure, and took more force to remove and re-install into the seal than the National or Timken.  The Timken spring was slightly less easy to pull off than the SFK. The way they are connected is different.  My ounce scale only has a resolution to 1/10, so the seal weight is only accurate to 1/10 of an ounce.

The SKF seal has no rubber around its metal case, explaining its weight.  I am curious about the green coating on the outside surface where it would contact the diameter of the bore hole.  I suspect it is a thermal sealant to bond it to the housing.  Paint would not seem necessary since there would virtually no moisture in the housing  to cause metal oxidation.  However, it could be coated to prevent rust from the point of manufacturing to installation.

The Toyota seal is better designed and constructed and is superior to the other three.  The SKF, National, and Timken seals do not have nearly as much rubber material in their design. The Toyota and Timken seals have 2 rubber surfaces that will make contact with the input shaft, providing more sealing function.  The Timken seal is very similar in design to the Toyota seal with 3 angles of contact areas, and I assume has been designed to prevent the gear oil from slipping through the seal onto the spline area of the shaft under different conditions – low temperature thru high temperature gear oil. The Toyota and Timken seals have chamfered outside edges, I assume for allowing easier installation into the bore. On the Toyota seal, rubber main seal area where the spring sits is much thicker and stiffer than the other 3 seal designs.   

The photos are difficult to see a good visual comparison. The Toyota seal has 3 surfaces that look they will contact the shaft.  The 3 contact areas are what looks like a 30*, a 45*, and an 8* in that order from the inside of the seal to the face that would be bottomed to the housing bore.  This is what I believe this description refers to:

https://syqp.en.alibaba.com/product/60337857446-802175123/30_45_8_FACTORY_OIL_SEAL_NOK_AE1679H_Nissan_Part_No_32114_Y400.html
The damaged one is the one I removed and appears to be a Toyota factory seal, although its design looks slightly different than the new one. It was very brittle.

MY CONCLUSION:
The Toyota seal appears to be the best design and construction.  The SFK seal appears to be a weak and poor quality design and construction. If a Toyota seal was not available, I would buy and install the Timken seal.

PHOTOS:  https://imgur.com/a/mHnQQ

Gnarls - that's just my opinion - it may be worthless.   :gap: 
« Last Edit: Jan 17, 2018, 02:21:29 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1173 on: Jan 15, 2018, 06:13:35 PM »
UPDATE:  1-15-2018 PM

I am ready to put the exhaust pipe back on the exhaust manifold and I have to deal with a crack in the collector.

I was not planning to buy a header just yet.  I wanted to get my engine really tuned and then take it to the speed shop and have it dyno’d.

I can see that the exhaust pipe looks like its leaking.

https://imgur.com/iJOnjp8

I can get my hands on anther stock exhaust manifold, or just go straight to the header and 2.25” exhaust… geezz… that’s a good $700 or $800!!  :-\

Does anyone have a good stock 22RE exhaust manifold sitting around they want to donate?  :gap:

This restoration is taking longer and costing more than I had imagined, but I’m going to get it done the way I want it.  :disturbed:

Gnarls.  :smack:
« Last Edit: Jan 17, 2018, 02:20:01 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

H8PVMNT

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1175 on: Jan 17, 2018, 07:06:23 AM »
I have a couple but none of them have the O2 sensor bung.
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1176 on: Jan 17, 2018, 01:13:31 PM »
Thank you OVRAROK, redneckcustoms13, H8PVMNT, and anyone else who was looking to help me with a replacement for my cracked stock exhaust manifold.

I have bit-the-bullet and ordered a Doug Thorley header.  :willynilly:

Gnarls. :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1177 on: Jan 17, 2018, 02:20:51 PM »
I spoke to the owner of the muffler shop that is going to do my exhaust system after I get the DT header.  He recommended a MagnaFlow muffler and 2.25” tubing.  I’m getting excited!!  :greengrin:

So.. I’m curious how much more torque I am going to get out of my newly rebuilt after heating up my Visa card with an $800 ding!!??  :willynilly:

When I finally get this engine tuned the way I think it should run, I’m going to have my truck chassis dyno’d.  :thumbs:

Gnarls  :gap:
« Last Edit: Jan 17, 2018, 02:45:08 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

redneckcustoms13

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1178 on: Jan 17, 2018, 06:01:59 PM »
I dont want to rain on a parade... but here goes it. The header on a 22re is like puting chrome wheels on your Toyota. It looks good. Ive ran pace setter, Hedman, Doug, Downey, and hooker; all that I have noticed is a more raspy exhaust tone, a fuzz more low end and 2 fuzzies more top end while mid range didn't seem to change. The dougie is by far the nicest of the options. I mainly ran them due to having them available and knowing they had to be an upgrade over the stock manifold.

My 81 is what I would call 90% factory being that the only things not oem from 1981 are the oil filter, air filter, belts, and front bumper. It has just as much grunt and just as much interstate as the 83 did before the 3rz swap. The 83 had a hooker, then Hedman, then Doug, then finally pace setter before pulling in leu of 3rz. Each had their own manners. None of the manners being something to brag about other than the lack of exhaust leak that came from a factory cracked manifold.

Maybe you will notice a seat of the pants improvement. Maybe the lack of cubic dollars in the checking account will make you feel cubic power. I would bet on seeing at the wheel hp maybe a 2~3hp gain if even that. A 22re is what it is. That is reliable, mechanically simple, and tough. No where in that description was powerful mentioned. Sure LCE can sell you a 200 hp 22re. How long will it last? At what rpm does it make that power? Not trying to go off on a tangent and start a fuss over it. I'm simply saying in my few years of experience with the 20/22 engines I would not expect a massive gain from changing exhaust.

My $.02 it may be worthless
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
01 double cab hunting truck
06 tacoma street truck

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1179 on: Jan 17, 2018, 06:28:31 PM »
...
My $.02 it may be worthless

This may surprise you, but I agree.  And, I always enjoy reading about others' experiences.

My first 22RE had a custom made DT header (they didn’t have one for a 22RE automatic).  The power increase was very noticeable, especially at highway cruise RPMS... but it wasn't HUGE.

On my 1985 stock 22R the DT header and exhaust was VERY noticeable. 

I have said before, I think the ECU and sensors in the 22RE will modulate the AFR, ignition timing, and injector functions.  Because it does that, the affect of certain modifications will not be as noticeable as with the carb’d engine.  That’s MY experience.

Now… regarding incremental power increases… in my experience even a 1 or 2 lbs of torque and 1 to 2 HP when raising from a stock 96 or 116 HP engine to say 100 or 120 HP has been noticeable to me.  For me, if I can get 2, 4, or 5 more lbs. of torque at 2500 to 3500 RPMs, I will be happy with my $800 and 3 hour investment.  That difference and increase means that I don’t have to shift down to 4th gear when climbing an upgrade at freeway speeds…. And I expect a slight increase in fuel mileage.

Because I don’t recall ever seeing a certified dyno test to actually see how much, if any, increase in torque and HP and at what RPMs a header and exhaust does over the factory stock manifold and exhaust, I just go on my butt dyno.

Of course, my experience is very limited compared to some of you guys out there.

Gnarls.

« Last Edit: Jan 17, 2018, 06:39:07 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1180 on: Jan 17, 2018, 06:43:30 PM »
I'm glad you read it the way I intended it to be read. Not bashing the idea, not saying it's a piss in the wind. It's not a supercharger or nitrous. It will make a slight difference. No doubt about it. Like you said 2hp increase on 116hp is much better than a 2hp increase on a 300hp engine. 800 worth idk. I know that 158hp (3rz) is night and day over the 116hp 22re. Maybe s few hp will do just the trick for your application.  :crossed:
« Last Edit: Jan 17, 2018, 06:50:52 PM by redneckcustoms13 »
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
01 double cab hunting truck
06 tacoma street truck

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1181 on: Jan 17, 2018, 06:59:59 PM »
.... 800 worth idk....

Back in 2000, when a DT header was about $230, and an exhaust system was about $300, and a torquey cam was about $100, I believed that for less that $700 I could gain about 10 or 12 HP out of my stock 22R... just an educated guess.

As a basically bolt-in and a bolt-on modification, I believed that it was definitely worth the dollars and time invested!

Gnarls.


« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2018, 02:38:38 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1182 on: Jan 18, 2018, 09:37:29 AM »
I remember having basically the same conversation about exhaust with Ted @ engnbldr. His opinion was that the stock 22r exhaust manifold was actually very well designed and already basically a Tri-Y, especially if you can find one of the earlier designs where the downtube is two pipes for a foot or so. (or collector? not sure what you call it when there's no turbo... the pipe after the manifold.) His advice was to stick with that, then go to a 2" pipe, then a 2.25" cat and 2.25 pipe the rest of the way with a straight flow muffler like a Magnaflow. He was saying the headers mostly help at super high rpm racing applications. But they won't hurt performance either, so if the stocker is cracked and you have the money, might as well make the engine bay pretty.

I have done that exhaust setup once, and I have recommended this to a handful of friends with these trucks and there is a seat of the pants improvement. Of course they are generally getting rid of an ancient cat and the stock muffler, so it's hard to say where the gain came from. One benefit of the stock manifold is quiet under the hood. The DT makes a ting-ting-ting sound that is sort of annoying.

Gnarly - the 11225 Magnaflow is the one you want. Longer body, center in and offset out. Not very ricey once it settles in a bit, although I have to have a cat so that makes my setup a little quieter. You should be able to find the 11225 for $80 or so. Good luck!
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1183 on: Jan 18, 2018, 12:34:20 PM »
I remember having basically the same conversation about exhaust with Ted @ engnbldr. His opinion was that the stock 22r exhaust manifold was actually very well designed and already basically a Tri-Y, especially if you can find one of the earlier designs where the downtube is two pipes for a foot or so. (or collector? not sure what you call it when there's no turbo... the pipe after the manifold.) His advice was to stick with that, then go to a 2" pipe, then a 2.25" cat and 2.25 pipe the rest of the way with a straight flow muffler like a Magnaflow. He was saying the headers mostly help at super high rpm racing applications. But they won't hurt performance either, so if the stocker is cracked and you have the money, might as well make the engine bay pretty.

I have done that exhaust setup once, and I have recommended this to a handful of friends with these trucks and there is a seat of the pants improvement. Of course they are generally getting rid of an ancient cat and the stock muffler, so it's hard to say where the gain came from. One benefit of the stock manifold is quiet under the hood. The DT makes a ting-ting-ting sound that is sort of annoying.

Gnarly - the 11225 Magnaflow is the one you want. Longer body, center in and offset out. Not very ricey once it settles in a bit, although I have to have a cat so that makes my setup a little quieter. You should be able to find the 11225 for $80 or so. Good luck!

I am anxious to get this engine tuned, exhaust and header installed and get a couple 1000 miles one it, then get it dyno'd.

I will check with the muffler shop and see what MagnaFlow they recommend.

With the head, OS valves and cam, the DT header should help and be noticeable.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1184 on: Jan 18, 2018, 02:17:54 PM »
My understanding of headers is that the longer they are the lower the rpm that they are effective at. In my Camaro the long tube header was like 42 inches and ran pretty much to the cat under the floorboards on each side.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1185 on: Jan 18, 2018, 05:11:15 PM »
The rule for mufflers is the biggest that will fit.

If you get a muffler for a large luxury vehicle, it will be quiet and have plenty of flow.
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1186 on: Jan 18, 2018, 05:45:17 PM »
On the topic of header and exhaust modifications on a 22RE, I don’t recall ever seeing a certified dyno test report (engine or chassis) specifically comparing the factory stock exhaust to any other aftermarket exhaust system, including a header and exhaust tubing, cat, and muffler.  Those tests may be out there?  :dunno:

If I go strictly by what some aftermarket suppliers tout about their performance upgrades for the 22R and 22RE, like a cam, over-sized valves, head, header, larger exhaust tubing, muffler, cat, etc, I can make some assumptions about what I might expect.  :dunno:

I suspect the 22RE’s ECU and reporting sensors, along the limiting stock fuel injectors, will keep the actual increases in torque and HP number to about 5 to 7 lbs of torque and 7 to 10 HP for a mild total modification and conservative monetary investment - targeted for drivability and reliability.  Can you get more torque and HP for a specific RPM range – of course.

I believe a head with over-sized valves, torquey cam, header and exhaust upgrade in a 22R will produce an increase of about 10 HP more than the same upgrades to 22RE -- about 125 HP for 22RE, and about 135 HP for a 22R.   :gap:

So… for my truck, on a chassis dyno (just my speculation), I might see 100 to 106 HP at the rear wheels.  And I hope to find out sometime in the near future.  :blah:

Gnarls.  :inthedark:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1187 on: Jan 18, 2018, 06:06:57 PM »
The rule for mufflers is the biggest that will fit.

If you get a muffler for a large luxury vehicle, it will be quiet and have plenty of flow.

Hey emsvitil,

Yes, I've heard that.  The space under the bed, between the underside of the bed and the bottom edge of the frame rail is the limiting factor.  The Toyota stock exhaust pipe, cat, and muffler is lower than I want it for wheeling.  On both my first 86 and on my 85, I had the exhaust tucked up as could be reasonably done.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1188 on: Jan 18, 2018, 06:16:31 PM »
...
Gnarly - the 11225 Magnaflow is the one you want. Longer body, center in and offset out. Not very ricey once it settles in a bit, although I have to have a cat so that makes my setup a little quieter. You should be able to find the 11225 for $80 or so. Good luck!


The muffler that my shop mentioned, I think, is this one:

https://www.magnaflow.com/products?partNumber=14355&searchTerm=14355

Gnarls.


« Last Edit: Jan 19, 2018, 02:40:24 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1189 on: Jan 18, 2018, 06:34:08 PM »
I like dynomax super turbo mufflers.

If you want to go the large, quiet route look at these:  (dynomax quiet-flow)

https://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/walker-quiet-flow-mufflers

It's a bit of a pain, as you have to search for the size you need.


And look up 'quarter wave resonator exhaust'

Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1190 on: Jan 19, 2018, 02:50:05 AM »
I like dynomax super turbo mufflers.

If you want to go the large, quiet route look at these:  (dynomax quiet-flow)

https://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/walker-quiet-flow-mufflers

It's a bit of a pain, as you have to search for the size you need.


And look up 'quarter wave resonator exhaust'



Dynamax is a good muffler.  I have usually run the cheaper turbo mufflers.  The cats and mufflers I've tried usually go bad, start rattling after a couple years of wheeling every other week end.

The MagnaFlow has a life time warranty... it will be interesting to see how many miles it will go.

Fortunately I've never experienced an exhaust drone problem in any of my vehicles - even with Thrush side pipes on my '67 Vette.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Jan 19, 2018, 07:51:10 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

andykrow

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1191 on: Jan 19, 2018, 01:55:28 PM »

The muffler that my shop mentioned, I think, is this one:

https://www.magnaflow.com/products?partNumber=14355&searchTerm=14355

Gnarls.

Nice, I've only played around with the 11 and 14 inch versions. My 11225 is plenty deep in tone, seems like the 14355 should be even better
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1192 on: Jan 19, 2018, 06:34:54 PM »
Nice, I've only played around with the 11 and 14 inch versions. My 11225 is plenty deep in tone, seems like the 14355 should be even better

Hey andykrow,

If you look under your Runner where the muffler would be positioned, you will probably see a plate about 18” long and about 6” wide.  That is a heat shield.  I believe the factory stock muffler was an 18” core.  The muffler I have on my truck now is a 13” Cherry Bomb Turbo.

https://cherrybomb.com/project/16808cb/

It sounds OK.  :D

When I spoke to my muffler shop, I told the owner what I wanted – no ricey rap, low throaty tone, and relatively quiet - he said “2.25 pipe and 18” MagnaFlow".  The 22RE, in a mostly stock form, is sensitive to going too large on the exhaust. I have experienced it, and several other guys I know also had the same experience – the drop is low end torque (off idle to about 2500 RPMs) is very noticeable.  Again, my interest in increased performance is TORQUE in the 2500 to 3500 RPM range. :thumbs:

And by the way, I like the sound of the DT header.  The “ting” sound is not loud enough to bother me.  :driving:

Yes…a ceramic coated Doug Thorley header attached to my head “looks” really NICE under my hood!  :gap:
 

Gnarls. :spin:

« Last Edit: Jan 19, 2018, 06:58:24 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1193 on: Jan 20, 2018, 05:41:52 PM »
UPDATE:   1-20-18PM

https://imgur.com/hitnVED

Wow… I ordered this on 1-18 and it’s on my door step on 1-20..shipped Fed-X!!  Summit indicated during my online order that they were out of stock on this part number and DT was going to fabricate one for a February delivery directly from the factory in Corona, CA.

It looks really nice.  I like the silver ceramic coating.

It does have an interesting design.  The bung for the O2 sensor is located on the “Y” for cylinders number 2 and 3.  Since the firing order is 1-3-4-2, the O2 sensor will be sensing every other combustion cycle.  It’s also interesting that cylinders number 2 and 3 are the two inside cylinders.  I have to assume that some automotive exhaust genius figured out that those two cylinders and their exhaust flow will provide the best balanced “feedback” to MamaECU and subsequent injector pulse data.  :thumbs:

I’m very anxious to get this installed and my truck over to the muffler shop. :gap:

Gnarls.  :burnout:




« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2018, 06:06:12 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

blackdiamond

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1194 on: Jan 20, 2018, 05:46:40 PM »
UPDATE:   1-20-17PM

https://imgur.com/hitnVED

It’s also interesting that cylinders number 2 and 3 are the two inside cylinders.

What's interesting about this?  It's only logical that you would number them from one end to the other resulting in 2 and 3 being the inside cylinders.  I'm sure I'm completely missing what you're saying...
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1195 on: Jan 20, 2018, 05:49:31 PM »
Before you put it in,  measure

1.   Primary tube diameter and length
2.   Secondary tube diameter and length
3.   Collector tube diameter and length.
4.   Merge angles


Might help for some understanding on header design....

 :idea:
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1196 on: Jan 20, 2018, 06:00:32 PM »
...  I'm sure I'm completely missing what you're saying...



C’mon blackdiamond…  of course!!  Yes, you may have completely missed what I was questioning. :therethere:

The bung could have been located on the “Y” tube for cylinders number 1 and 4… the two outside cylinders.  :yesnod:

It would be interesting to know why - if anything technically relevant to the O2 sensor, the cylinder exhaust/combustion, or firing order - the bung is located on 2 and 3.  :dunno:

Gnarls.  :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1197 on: Jan 20, 2018, 06:02:02 PM »
Before you put it in,  measure

1.   Primary tube diameter and length
2.   Secondary tube diameter and length
3.   Collector tube diameter and length.
4.   Merge angles


Might help for some understanding on header design....

 :idea:

I can do that.  :thumbs:

Gnarls. :D
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

blackdiamond

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1198 on: Jan 20, 2018, 06:29:36 PM »

C’mon blackdiamond…  of course!!  Yes, you may have completely missed what I was questioning. :therethere:

The bung could have been located on the “Y” tube for cylinders number 1 and 4… the two outside cylinders.  :yesnod:

It would be interesting to know why - if anything technically relevant to the O2 sensor, the cylinder exhaust/combustion, or firing order - the bung is located on 2 and 3.  :dunno:

Gnarls.  :gap:


In theory all four cylinders should function identically.  The tubes are set up such that the two cylinders being collected are not in order allowing time for the exhaust to pass before the next round.  I would assume that they chose the bung location because it was on the outside pipe and by having it in a tube with only two cylinders allows it to measure the exhaust during a fire and also in the "pause" giving reading over the entire spectrum.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

Moab Tested & Rubicon Approved

emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1199 on: Jan 20, 2018, 06:39:04 PM »
Probably just for O2 sensor accessibility when the header is in the truck.........
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

 
 
 
 
 

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