Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild

[YooperYota]

UPDATE MARCH 7 20018

My last tank of 87 octane driving the same route, but going 65 to 70 MPH, I got 19.87.

So…. I should not expect this engine to get what my 1st 1986 22RE, automatic, long bed got.

This engine is definitely putting out more torque and HP.  I speculate that with the .020” overbore, block decked .006”, oversize valves in RV head, and 261C cam, DT header … it is probably running about 30 HP more than a stock 22RE, stock exhaust.  My 1st California 22RE was rated at 116 HP as I remember, so this engine should be around 146 HP… just a wild a$$ guess. 

Gnarls.

Hmmm, 25% power increase off of a cam and a small over bore? I appreciate your optimism, but that's probably not likely...

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[fasterspider]

A trip to the dyno shop will reveal the truth on rwhp, don't leave us all in the dark about the truth.

[:)bestgen4runner]

In all honesty I would be shocked if it made more than 125hp
A friend of mine “Brad” had a 22re stroker motor build by EB and shipped to Him.
After install, breakin, and tuning I believe it hit 125hp.
This engine just does not make any significant Hp due to the poor flowing head design.
I would be willing to put money on it if anyone is interested.

[YooperYota]

In all honesty I would be shocked if it made more than 125hp
A friend of mine “Brad” had a 22re stroker motor build by EB and shipped to Him.
After install, breakin, and tuning I believe it hit 125hp.
This engine just does not make any significant Hp due to the poor flowing head design.
I would be willing to put money on it if anyone is interested.

Gotta get dat boost

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[Cheesemaker]

Paying someone else to work on your vehicle is like paying someone to sire your children.

I agree with this.  But since I don't have a press, and a backup vehicle.  I will have to drop off my rig to have the rear wheel bearings and all associated seals replaced, including the leaky pinion seal.  I would rather do the job, but its going to be cheaper than buying a press, and associated tools to do it myself. 

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Hmmm, 25% power increase off of a cam and a small over bore? I appreciate your optimism, but that's probably not likely...

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Based on what? 

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Gotta get dat boost

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Don't want boost!

Gnarls. 

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

I agree with this.  But since I don't have a press, and a backup vehicle.  I will have to drop off my rig to have the rear wheel bearings and all associated seals replaced, including the leaky pinion seal.  I would rather do the job, but its going to be cheaper than buying a press, and associated tools to do it myself. 

Yeah.... I won't rebuild my tranny myself.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

In all honesty I would be shocked if it made more than 125hp
A friend of mine “Brad” had a 22re stroker motor build by EB and shipped to Him.
After install, breakin, and tuning I believe it hit 125hp.
This engine just does not make any significant Hp due to the poor flowing head design.
I would be willing to put money on it if anyone is interested.

I agree.  I WILL be surprised if the chassis dyno shows more than 110 HP!!  But.... I remain optimistic in the face of ignorance. 

Gnarls.

[fasterspider]

That 110 rwhp is probably 140 @ the crank which is a nice number but, rwhp is all that matters.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

That 110 rwhp is probably 140 @ the crank which is a nice number but, rwhp is all that matters.

Well... when I get a little more run time on this engine and tuned the way I want it, I'm going to find out.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

In all honesty I would be shocked if it made more than 125hp
A friend of mine “Brad” had a 22re stroker motor build by EB and shipped to Him.
After install, breakin, and tuning I believe it hit 125hp.
This engine just does not make any significant Hp due to the poor flowing head design.
I would be willing to put money on it if anyone is interested.

Well, we can start a raffle and anyone can pick the torque and HP numbers!!

Then we will have an official WEENER!!

Gnarls.

[YooperYota]

Alright, well, if we're betting... I've got $5 that says it makes 90hp at the wheels. :grinpimp:

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[EASYRYDERDANGER]

112-113 HP
..AT THE WHEELS

[fasterspider]

112-113 HP
..AT THE WHEELS

For a poorly designed bad flowing head on top of a 4 cylinder engine as stout as a 22R, 112 or 113 at the wheel isn't enough for daily driver use as far as I am concerned but, off road this is more than enough and I'd be happy with those numbers.
I just got home from a 100 miles round trip up the Grapevine to get another bed load of used Toyota parts and if my rig had that 113 rwhp, I'd be able to do 80mph up the hill in 5th gear but, no. I have to shift down in to 3rd and ring her neck to barely cruise at 55 mph and then she'll do 83 mph coming down the hill with the wind at her back which is kind of scary in such a lightweight and high profile vehicle.
Another 25 hp @ the wheels would give my rig enough to go up the hill in high gear.

[H8PVMNT]

I'll throw out 107 RWHP.

[redneckcustoms13]

109 im optimistic

[Gillesdetrail]

98rwhp

[YooperYota]

Sooo, when's the dyno trip?

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[Gnarly4X [OP]]

I'll throw out 107 RWHP.

H,

So far, your guess, or whatever you want to call it, is closest to my prediction.

I may change my mind on this before the day I put it on the chassis dyno, but right now my numbers are:

104.84 HP and 132.24 lbs of torque.

Gnarls.

[H8PVMNT]

By the time it gets to the wheels, based on what we have heard of 22re dynos over the years and the bunch of dyno information I have seen on 3RZs, I'll bet yours breaks the 100 HP mark but not by much.  The 3RZ end up in the 120s RWHP and after driving one of those and driving hopped up 22s That is my semi-educated butt dyno prediction.  Of course most butts have a 5-7% margin for error .

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Sooo, when's the dyno trip?

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I am very eager myself... BUT I want to get some more miles on it, AND I need to do some serious tuning.  I also have to finish the exhaust system.

So... maybe around June??

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Of course most butts have a 5-7% margin for error .

So does your average chassis dyno.

Gnarls.

[300k]

So does your average chassis dyno.

Gnarls.

Well, H8PVMNT is not your average butt dyno. He actually self calibrates.

[Slabzilla]

Gnarls, rebuilding a tranny on a Toy is a piece of cake compared to a Muncie. If you can do the Engine You can do the tranny, get the FSM or something similar.     Keep the 22RE's alive, good trail engine.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Well, H8PVMNT is not your average butt dyno. He actually self calibrates.

I've been self recalibrating all my life.  It's that 5 - 7% error factor that has really fubar'd my recalibrations! 

I am anxious to read about his "self recalibrated" budget rebuild getting past break-in and more than 40,000 miles. 

Gnarls. 

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Gnarls, rebuilding a tranny on a Toy is a piece of cake compared to a Muncie. If you can do the Engine You can do the tranny, get the FSM or something similar.     Keep the 22RE's alive, good trail engine.

I started turning wrenches when I was about 8 years old.  By 10 years of age I was hand lapping valves with a stick with suction cup on the end while helping my dad rebuild his 1941 DeSoto. My Dad was an old school auto mechanic.  I remember him making gaskets out of a Wheaties cereal box and a “ball ‘n peanus” hammer, and checking which cylinder wasn’t firing by grabbing the end of a spark plug wire while the engine idled.  The reliability and my experiences with Chevy, VW, Honda, Mercedes, and Toyota have not given me much to practice on, so as a DIYer, I have a limited experience.

Realistically I could probably successfully rebuild my tranny.  However, just the two times I had my 85 5-speed in my local tranny shop and having lots of discussions with the guys that I know were flipp’n experts (20+ years of building transmissions), I will leave that to Marlin and the boys and other experts.

Over the years I’ve read about many “pieces o’ cake”, but in my experience there’s been very few things on my 4 Toyota trucks that I’d call a “piece ‘o cake” job, especially anything that requires lubrication.

My rebuild is running OK, but still has some issues that I’m concerned about and need to fix.  I’m very happy with the power increase. It’s got the throttle response and added torque right where I wanted it.  It will actually reasonably accelerate in 5th gear from 65 MPH to 80 MPH without WOT.  I was hoping not to have to burn 89 or 91 octane gas, and so far so good on 87 octane.

I find it difficult to understand why guys buy an old truck with a 96 HP or 116HP 4 cylinder engine and then complain about it having a lack of power!!  If they wanted a truck to pull a grade in 5th gear or pull a toy hauler or trailer their queen they should go buy a turbo diesel powered full-size fuel sucking monster truck!

Since my 1st 1986 bought right off the showroom floor in 1986 and 100s of thousands of miles on my 3 22R/REs, I've had to shift down going up a steep grade many times.  On the highway, if I have to get down to 4th or even 3rd gear at 4,000 RPMs at 40 or 50 MPH for a few minutes, it never really bothered me.

There’s probably a very good reason why it takes Jim and Jerry at 22RE Performance 40+ hours to rebuild a 22R that will go over 100,000 miles.

Gnarls.

[300k]

I find it difficult to understand why guys buy an old truck with a 96 HP or 116HP 4 cylinder engine and then complain about it having a lack of power!!  If they wanted a truck to pull a grade in 5th gear or pull a toy hauler or trailer their queen they should go buy a turbo diesel powered full-size fuel sucking monster truck!

Wait, you do that. You've been talking about selling off the RE and doing an LS swap

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Wait, you do that. You've been talking about selling off the RE and doing an LS swap

Hey 298K,

You need to do a little more research and skill development in the subject of linguistics. 

Let me break it down for you…   


I wrote… 

“I find it difficult to understand why guys buy an old truck with a 96 HP or 116HP 4 cylinder engine and then complain about it having a lack of power!! “

Go find one of my posts where I *complained* about one of my 22s not having enough power. 

Here.. did you miss this?…   

“Since my 1st 1986 bought right off the showroom floor in 1986 and 100s of thousands of miles on my 3 22R/REs, I've had to shift down going up a steep grade many times.  On the highway, if I have to get down to 4th or even 3rd gear at 4,000 RPMs at 40 or 50 MPH for a few minutes, it never really bothered me.” 


I, like many of us, know that a stock 96HP to 116HP engine in an early Toy pickup or Runner is considered “under powered”, mostly felt on the highway.  BUT…. for 4-wheeling - my basically stock 22s – I have successfully wheeled most of the popular difficult ‘rock crawling” trails in 4 States and Mexico.  AND… I have been right behind some $25,000 to $50,000 vehicles with V-8s…… hmmmmm?… how in the hell did my little 96HP engine do THAT?  For my style of 4-wheeling, a Marlin Crawler t-case was all I needed for some torque multiplication.  Yes… there were times when some extra HP would have been really handy…. BUT I always made it to the end of the trail, and I never held anyone up because I was short on power. 

Yes…. I have wanted a loppy V-8 in my Toy trucks since 1986!  BUT.. if I do that swap, it will change my truck forever for wheeling and highway. 

As I mentioned, for this truck (I bought in 2006), I’m trying to keep it as original as reasonably possible.  Based upon its overall condition, it is likely that odometer reading of 135,885 is accurate.  The actual number of miles driven is higher because the tires have been larger than factory stock for a large percentage of those miles. 

When I bought it in 2006, back then my future plan was to swap in a V-8.  But once I started the restoration of this truck and rebuild of this engine, I have decided to NOT to do an engine swap. 

Gnarls. 

[fasterspider]

I love my 22R every where but, the freeway.
She putts up gnarly off road hills at idle while those big V8s are screaming using up so much fuel on the same hill and why?
Don't get me wrong, I have a 375hp 400 cid small block in my 1970 Chevelle/Nomad and I love how she sounds coming on the power through those dual exhaust pipes but, in my Yota I just want to hear Ozzy's Bone Yard through the sound system cranked up to 11 as we negotiate gnarly obstacles.
The V8 engine has it's place, just not in my Toyota.