Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild

[Gnarly4X]

If u are confident your low compression is not because of valves then sound like it's tear down time

Hey E,

I appreciate your input!

Until I do a complete leak down and another compression test - I'll try BG's suggestion on loosening the rockers - I won't be sure of where there is some leaking (rings for sure - oil consumption) or if the valves are leaking and causing low compression as well.

I hope to do some more diagnosis Saturday morning.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Bolt a 3rz in. Call it done.

Hey r,

I should know the answer to this question, but I'm not sure....

So... can I just "bolt" in a 3RZ?

It seems like when I read posts by those who do a 3RZ swap, they are constantly trying to figure out how to get it mounted in the engine bay, get the harness hooked up, mate it with a tranny, etc, etc.

So just how easy is it to sway in 3RZ into a 1986 22RE, 5-speed, SR5 XtraCab??  And.... where would be the best way to start to find one and buy one?  How much time would it take to do a 3RZ swap from start to firing the engine.  THEN.... what advantages are there for this swap?  Seriously.

Gnarls. 

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

I had a '90 civic once, it would consume about twice as much oil as your 22re, but wouldn't smoke on start-up or acceleration. But if I would downshift and brake with compression, then accelerate, I could not see anything in my rear view mirror because of the smoke, then it would clear out and be ok, so it wasn't burning it all the time, just under certain condition (it was leaking like a mofo too). Maybe that is happening to you as well?

Hey G,

I appreciate your input.

Well.. there is NO smoke that I can see at anytime driving my truck.  That does puzzle me.

There is absolutely NO motor oil leaks.

So far two engine builders have stated that based on my describing my engine build process and the components I used, they believe the excessive oil consumption is rings or cylinder bore, or a combination.

At this point, the engine will be pulled, disassembled, carefully inspected by a pro, hopefully I will learn something.

Gnarls.

[redneckcustoms13]

Hey r,

I should know the answer to this question, but I'm not sure....

So... can I just "bolt" in a 3RZ?

It seems like when I read posts by those who do a 3RZ swap, they are constantly trying to figure out how to get it mounted in the engine bay, get the harness hooked up, mate it with a tranny, etc, etc.

So just how easy is it to sway in 3RZ into a 1986 22RE, 5-speed, SR5 XtraCab??  And.... where would be the best way to start to find one and buy one?  How much time would it take to do a 3RZ swap from start to firing the engine.  THEN.... what advantages are there for this swap?  Seriously.

Gnarls. 

Get engine mounts from toyonlyswaps. Get bellhousing from the 5 speed donor vehicle the 3rz came from. It bolts in. You will change the slave cylinder supply line because it moves to the driver side. Extend fuel lines, small things but nothing hard.  Wiring is not that hard on an already efi vehicle. And yes the results are real. Just like driving a Tacoma except it looks much cooler and is an 86.

[Snowtoy]

So far two engine builders have stated that based on my describing my engine build process and the components I used, they believe the excessive oil consumption is rings or cylinder bore, or a combination.

What were the comp numbers after the rebuild, were they ever above 170?

[emsvitil]

I don't think a 3rz fits with an 86 IFS...………...

[redneckcustoms13]

Correct. Forgot he is ifs. Then order the pan already modified. Still easy.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

I know this is sacreligius to some Toy owners, but if I were to do a swap, I would swap in an LS 6.2.

I have always wanted a V-8 in my early Toy trucks.  And, I have a friend who is involved in 4-wheel racing and popular off-road competitions, builds engines and does LS swaps all the time in different vehicles.

Unless I find there is too much involved, emissions/licensing issues, or too much cost, I'd look seriously at an LS swap.  My estimated turn-key cost - installed-  is less than $5,000.  BUT... I have a gut feeling that any swap is not as easy at first blush.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

What were the comp numbers after the rebuild, were they ever above 170?

Hi S,

I'd have to look back into my notes, but I believe the initial test after firing the engine was in the 120's, and the next test was in the 140's.  I think the compression was lower than what it should have been from the start.

Gnarls.

[300k]

swap in an LS 6.2.

always wanted a V-8 in my early Toy trucks

I'd look seriously at an LS swap.

[mudmaster]

If you have Kommiefornia like emissions testing forget about doing an LS swap.

[Snowtoy]

If your memory is correct, those numbers seem low for a fresh rebuild, IIRC, the ones I have I rebuilt over the years have all been in the 160's/170's cold after a few 100 miles.

With the issues you had with dialing in the valves with the cam, I am wondering if the comp numbers are unrelated to the oil consumption.

[blackdiamond]

I thought somewhere in the 140 to 150 was the spec for my 22RE when I had my valves adjusted?  Is it different for different years?

[Snowtoy]

The '85,'88, & '93 FSM's state 142psi as the minimum compression pressure for a warm engine, none state a maximum, however use 171psi for Compression Pressure in the steps for performing a compression test.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

I thought somewhere in the 140 to 150 was the spec for my 22RE when I had my valves adjusted?  Is it different for different years?

The FSM uses the "STD" and "Limit" for specs on compression pressure on a 22R/RE:  STD = 171 psi, Limit = 142.

So, I assume that STD means that's the factory spec at manufacturing, and 142 would mean less than that is outside of the target pressure - most likely losing some performance and fuel mileage.

It's interesting that FSM specs the 22RTE turbo at STD =149 and Limit = 120.  Obviously its got boost.

Most of the compression tests that have posted seem to be up around 170+ for a factory spec'd engine.  Above that, I would imagine you may be required to burn 90+ octane gas.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

If your memory is correct, those numbers seem low for a fresh rebuild, IIRC, the ones I have I rebuilt over the years have all been in the 160's/170's cold after a few 100 miles.

With the issues you had with dialing in the valves with the cam, I am wondering if the comp numbers are unrelated to the oil consumption.

Hi S,

Yes, the low compression numbers can definitely be a valve issue, and until I complete the leak down testing, I'm not sure at this point.  I got a gut feeling that the low compression IS the rings.  BUT... .since the valve lash on this cam goes tight prematurely on the exhaust valves, I'd like to understand why that is happening?  And... it could be valve seats.   I'll try to get into the garage by Sunday.

The oil consumption is probably NOT related to the low compression if the valves are the issue, right?  Again... zero smoke!!!???

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

If you have Kommiefornia like emissions testing forget about doing an LS swap.

Hi m,

Yes... that will be an issue possibly here in AZ, and I would get the facts before doing any swaps.

One other concern for swapping is the AC.... gotta have it!!!

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Hey 300k.... using your previously posted narratives about keeping your antique thread "tech", deleting posts, you just demonstrated a degree of hypocricy... didn't you?

If swapping in a V-8 or GM LS engine raises a multi-colored flag.... I have friends that really like multi-colored POWER!!!.... and they are some of the gnarliest dudes I know!!

Go gay or go home.

Gnarls.

[:)bestgen4runner]

Any update or actual work on the vehicle/ engine?
Once again, lots of talk and very little, scratch that, Zero action. 

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Any update or actual work on the vehicle/ engine?
Once again, lots of talk and very little, scratch that, Zero action. 

Patience grasshopper.... walk slow, step carefully, don't tear the rice paper.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

please explain how you would do this swap for less than $5,000

Hey l,

How about this.... YOU explain why I cannot.

Gnarls.

[300k]

Are you taking it to a shop or gonna try and DIY?

[blackdiamond]

You'll need this: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ls-cam-test-comparison/

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

Hey l,

How about this.... YOU explain why I cannot.

Gnarls. 

 

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

You'll need this: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ls-cam-test-comparison/

Hey bd,

Interesting article and very informative.

Thank you for sharing. 

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

please explain how you would do this swap for less than $5,000

Hey liveoak,

It’s a good question.

My estimate was just that.  I clearly stated a “But”.

Here’s a reality check for me…

My good friend and expert has done LS swaps from $1,500 to $20,000+.

The swap could most likely be done for around $5,000, but it would be about 75% to where I’d be happy.  My out-of-control hot-rod right foot would get me in trouble quickly and I’d be rebuilding drive train components.

My name is on a warmed up LS L33 that has been dyno’d at 425 HP.  So I have access to an aluminum block LS at a very reasonable price.   Here’s the rub, I’d have less than $3,000 to get the rest of the swap stuff purchased, fab’d, and installed.  Here in AZ, to get it emissions tested and passed, it would require exhaust modification - including dual cats.  There is also the likely need to convert the IFS to straight axle, and upgrade the drive train to handle the 400+ HP.  At this point I haven’t done the research on what exactly would be needed.

So… based on my discussion with my good friend and knowing what I would be happy with, his predicted cost would be close to $8,000.

Does that answer your question?

Gnarls.

[Snowtoy]

My name is on a warmed up LS L33 that has been dyno’d at 425 HP.  So I have access to an aluminum block LS at a very reasonable price.   Here’s the rub, I’d have less than $3,000 to get the rest of the swap stuff purchased, fab’d, and installed.  Here in AZ, to get it emissions tested and passed, it would require exhaust modification - including dual cats.  There is also the likely need to convert the IFS to straight axle, and upgrade the drive train to handle the 400+ HP.

And when you are done, for your $10k or more, you end up with a truck that looks like a Toyota w/the reliability issues of a GM, if an LS is what you want, you would be money ahead by simply buying a '96-'07 4x4, and adding power upgrades, in my area they can be had clean for under $5k, heck Corvettes from the same era sell as low as $6k.

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

And when you are done, for your $10k or more, you end up with a truck that looks like a Toyota w/the reliability issues of a GM, if an LS is what you want, you would be money ahead by simply buying a '96-'07 4x4, and adding power upgrades, in my area they can be had clean for under $5k, heck Corvettes from the same era sell as low as $6k.

Hey S,

Well... yeah... that's one perspective.

My perspective is different.  First, I really like my truck.  I've owned an 1986 Longbed, 22RE automatic, a 1985 shortbed 22R 5-speed, and now this 86 Xtracab SR5 22RE 5-speed.  I also owned a Tundra V-8 4x4.  A V-8 in my early Toyota trucks has always been a strong desire for me.  It's not just the power, it's the novelty.  And mostly the incredible sound of lopy cam'd V-8 at idle!!

Certainly the cost is an issue.  The engineering and fabrication to make is work successfully is another issue.  The amount time devoted to the project is another issue.

I have the time, I have the money, and I know someone who is an expert at building, racing, and swapping LS engines.

I disagree with you that the truck with an aluminum block L33 swap would not be reliable.  Why would it not be reliable? 

Arguably, the GM LS engines are one of the very best (most reliable) V-8 engines every designed and manufactured by GM.  I would not plan on racing it or off-roading it.  It would just be a daily driver, or weekend cruiser.

Today, it's just a fantasy.

Regarding buying something else to take the place of a $10K swap is possible.  I don't want another 4x4 and I've owned two early Corvettes....  but things may change?

Gnarls. 

[300k]

4.7 swap!

[Gnarly4X [OP]]

4.7 swap!

A Toyota V8 swap is an option.

How many people do you know who have done a Toyota V8 swap in an early Toy truck?

How many V8 swaps (Toyota or any other engine) have you actually seen in person with your own eyes?

Can you point me to any links on a Toyota 4.7 engine swap in a 1986 Toyota truck?

Who sources the Toy engine to transmission adapters?

Does Advance Adapters have any thing for a Toyota V8 engine to early Toy truck swaps?

Do you know anyone who builds and tunes a 2UZ-FE?

IF I were to go a Toy engine swap, would it make more sense to swap in a 3UZ-FE (aluminum block)?

Here's the big question..... how can I get a Toyota V8 engine to sound like cam'd GM LS engine?

Gnarls.