Author Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild  (Read 213307 times)

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Lewis Hein

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1920 on: Feb 29, 2020, 07:16:49 PM »
My favorite definition of a cheap tool, part, or repair: One that will break when you most need it not to.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1921 on: Feb 29, 2020, 07:30:13 PM »
Here’s the reality for me.

If Jim at 22RE Performance recommends a Toyota factory head gasket and a torque spec of 80 lbs., I’m OK with that.

Based upon my little bit of research and comparisons, I’d recommend a Toyota head gasket for a typical 22 rebuild.

If I could not get a Toyota brand, I’d go with a Fel-Pro.

There are 1000s of posts in forums discussing head gaskets and head gasket failures.  Some failures have nothing to do with the premature failure of the head gasket.

A higher price does NOT always mean your get the best quality and more importantly the best part for the specific head and block that needs to sealed.

There are many posts and videos on TOYOTA FACTORY head gasket failures!!

There are posts and videos on Cometic head gasket failures!

There are not many posts or videos on Fel-Pro head gasket failures.

I would not recommend the DNJ master rebuild kit, or a head gasket.

The recommended type of head gasket for the application, the torque spec, and the RA on the machining are all important to preventing premature head gasket failure. 

As I already stated, I trusted a well-known and previously highly respected Toyota engine parts supplier.  The master rebuild kit was an attractive option to buying the pieces separately.  However, if I buy any parts for any of my vehicles in the future, I will consider more carefully the source, manufacturer, quality and the price as separate factors to my final decision.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Mar 01, 2020, 07:17:55 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1922 on: Mar 01, 2020, 04:44:23 AM »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1923 on: Mar 01, 2020, 11:20:01 AM »
On my 1986 22RE wire harness, the bundle that distributes the 4 fuel injector connectors and the Auxillary Air Valve connector, all 5 connectors look very similar except the AAV connector socket has an offset locating notch and is a bluish color.

The other connectors have a locating notch in center of the grayish shell.

The color of 3 of the injector wire pairs are white & blue.  One pair of the injector wires, I believe that connects to #3 injector, appears to be yellow with a thin blue stripe of letters. The other wire is white with 2 red stripe. I am sure that those wires were connected to a fuel injector connector – I can see the connector wires that I cut off on the old connector.

Why the different color wires is a mystery right now.

As it sits next to the fuel rail, looking at the way the wire bundle is wrapped – FI#1 is obvious.  #2 is next, then at the end of the taped bundle #3 and #4 come out together.

The AAV wire comes out the big bundle at a different point in the end of the big bundle and the 2 wires are white with 2 black stripes and blue.

I don’t know for sure that the injectors have to be connected to a specific connector in the wire bundle. :dunno:

Does anyone have any comments or can confirm what colors the wires are that connect to the #3 fuel injector. 

Here are 2 links with photos of the two connectors and the AAV connector.

https://imgur.com/PyJOXLq

https://imgur.com/gTEPMzE


Gnarls. :inthedark:

« Last Edit: Mar 02, 2020, 01:52:09 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1924 on: Mar 03, 2020, 05:27:02 AM »
Clearly those injectors are bad due to corona staining.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1925 on: Mar 03, 2020, 08:59:39 AM »
Clearly those injectors are bad due to corona staining.

ERD.....

:haha: Go get checked!  You may have contracted the Corona Virus! :laugh:

Gnarls.  :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1926 on: Mar 16, 2020, 03:13:58 AM »
UPDATE:  3-16-2020 AM

It’s been awhile since I replaced the head.  Unfortunately, my set back in completing the head replacement were unforeseeable family issues and multiple pain-causing spine injuries. :thumbdown:

The result is I don’t have the physical strength I had just 2 years ago.  :blah:

Getting old sucks!  :smack:

This past week-end I made good progress.   :yesnod:

The intake manifold and throttle body are on.  Hoses and sensors are connected.  :thumbs:

Before firing the engine:  :working:

I have to…

Bolt down the power steering pump
Install the distributor
Attach radiator top hose
Replace the radiator coolant and cap
Re-attach AMF to throttle body tube
Replace Power Steering V-belt
Pull the fuel injector fuse
Re-attach exhaust pipe to header coupler
Spin the engine to get oil pressure up
Install the spark plugs and attach plug wires
Replace fuel injector fuse
Recheck ALL hoses, connections.
Recheck ALL hoses, connections again.

Did I miss something?  :dunno:

Has anyone during assembly forgotten to install the Allen head bolt on the intake manifold?  :disturbed:

I hope to fire the engine no later than the end of this coming week-end.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :D
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1927 on: Apr 25, 2020, 06:16:02 PM »
UPDATE:  4-25-20

FINALLY!!! I got the intake manifold and throttle body on the new head, stock valves and original factory camshaft.

After sitting so long, it took about a minute for the oil pressure to come up.

I got the timing light out and set the timing.  It seems to run fine.  I think I’ve got a vacuum or air leak.  I have not figured out where it is.  I’ll re-check all the hoses.  The rockers are way quieter with the factory cam.

I will get it off the jackstands and on the road for test run next week end.  I still think it’s going to use oil, but I’ll be EXTREMELY excited if the oil excessive consumption was caused by the bad head.

There are some repairs I have to make….

The oil pump is leaking – one I Installed from engnbldr’s kit.  I kept the factory one, so I’ll put it back on.

The power steering gear box is leaking.  The power steering pump is leaking. Those are factory stock and 34 years old.  I need to have the exhaust all welded up.

I'll do a compression check.

I’m anxious to drive it again.

I’ll post up the results after I drive it 600 miles.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1928 on: May 04, 2020, 05:32:58 AM »
UPDATE 5-4-2020

I pulled the truck out of garage yesterday and was going to take it for short test run.  :D

It started right up, but after shutting the engine off for a few minutes, it starts with the blubber like it’s flooded!.... I’m bummed!  So now I have more fun things to diagnose and fix!! :disturbed:

After letting it idle for a few minutes, I noticed oil dripping from the back of engine at the back of the oil pan and the bell housing!  I already knew that the oil pump has a little leak, but this new leak is too much for me to drive the truck.  I was so disgusted I pulled it back into the garage and will wait to this weekend to see if I can find and fix the oil leak.  I HATE LEAKS!!  If I didn’t have bad luck, I wouldn’t have any luck!  :smack:

Crap!  :willynilly:

Gnarls.  :thud:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gillesdetrail

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1929 on: May 07, 2020, 08:35:00 PM »
Well that sucks, you deserved better luck. let us know where it is leaking from.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1930 on: May 15, 2020, 06:26:12 AM »
Well that sucks, you deserved better luck. let us know where it is leaking from.

Hi G...

Yeah... thanks.

I cleaned up the bottom of the bellhousing, ran the engine for about 20 minutes.  I could see about 2 drops of motor oil on the bottom edge of the bellhousing.  I cannot determine for sure where its coming from.  The back of the oil pan bolts are tight and not new oil leaking.  I hope it's not the rear main seal!!  OMG, I hate dropping the tranny!! I'll have just clean it all up, fire the engine, let it idle while I lay under truck with a light and see if I can watch it leak.

But... I hate leaks, so I will figure it out and fix it.

The fun and excitement of working on my truck 25 years ago was about a 10+ on the 10-scale.

Today, at my age and compromised physical condition (my back and shoulders), my excitement factor is about a 2-.

Gnarls.



Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1931 on: May 16, 2020, 06:08:08 AM »
No shame in bringing it to a mecanic, it's time to drive and enjoy the thing already!

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1932 on: May 17, 2020, 02:47:07 PM »
UPDATE:  5-17.20

I cleaned up the bottom of the bellhousing.  I fast idled the engine and creepered under the truck.  I watched the area for about 5 minutes… not a drop of oil.  I suspect the oil was spilled down the engine when I removed the old head.

I drove the truck for about 40 miles in town and down the freeway.  The torque from off-idle thru 4500 RPMs has definitely dropped according to my antique buttdyno.

Now I’m .020” overbore, new DNJ head with stock valve and stock cam. I believe the compression is up a little above stock and I’m still able to burn 87 octane.

So that engnbldr RV head with 1mm oversize valves and 261C cam seems to make a difference and increases the torque in the RPM range to 5000.

I’ll run the full numbers on Engine Analyzer and see how the engines compare.

After about two hours parked in 98d F sun, I crawled under it and there are no crankcase oil dripping.  The front 8 oil pan bolts were just a tad loose.  I don’t think the oil pump is leaking oil.  But, the power steering gear box is dipping gear oil!

I need to replace the pinion seal in the rear diff.

The AC blows warm air, so I’ll have to get it into the Auto AC shop and get it checked and recharged.

It felt really good to drive my truck again. :thumbs:

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 05:06:08 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1933 on: May 18, 2020, 11:39:57 AM »
Who knows what the actual number of cc's is for the chamber for ANY 20 or 22 head?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1934 on: May 23, 2020, 05:25:23 AM »
Who knows what the actual number of cc's is for the chamber for ANY 20 or 22 head?

Gnarls.

I hoping someone had cc'd the chamber on their head.

There seems to be a range of numbers - from 52 to 56 cc's. Obviously the chamber volume is critical for calculating the compression ratio, which is important to know when selecting an aftermarket cam.

I should receive the rest of my cc kit next week and I am going to cc both 22RE heads I have sitting in my garage - the original factory stock head and the engnbldr head with 1mm oversized valves that failed.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1935 on: May 23, 2020, 05:26:33 AM »
UPDATE:  5-24-20

After watching a Youtube video of “Sam” rebuilding a Toyota steering gear box, and laughing out loud through the whole video, I decided I will NOT attempt to rebuild my PSGB.  I would be Sam, with more swearing and not in a video.  I ordered a reman gear box and steering coupler for $388.90 from RockAuto.  It will be plenty enough fun removing and replacing that!  :thumbs

The oil pump IS leaking oil.  I ordered the rubber seal and a front crank seal.  :disturbed:

I also ordered a rear diff pinion seal, so now I have 3 oily fun things to do and I get to make love to my litto twuck in the toasty summer heat.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :blah:
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 10:23:05 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1936 on: May 23, 2020, 07:12:28 PM »
I hoping someone had cc'd the chamber on their head.

There seems to be a range of numbers - from 52 to 56 cc's. Obviously the chamber volume is critical for calculating the compression ratio, which is important to know when selecting an aftermarket cam.

I should receive the rest of my cc kit next week and I am going to cc both 22RE heads I have sitting in my garage - the original factory stock head and the engnbldr head with 1mm oversized valves that failed.

Gnarls.


The 20Rs are probably one value, then there will be 2 different values for the 22Rs (early and late versions).

Don't know what any of them are.........…………..
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1937 on: May 23, 2020, 07:59:04 PM »

The 20Rs are probably one value, then there will be 2 different values for the 22Rs (early and late versions).

Don't know what any of them are.........…………..

Hey e...

Yes, I believe the 20R head has as smaller chamber than the 22s, and that's what increases the compression ratio when adapted to a 22 block.

I'm curious to find out if my factory stock head with stock valves has a smaller chamber or larger chamber than the engnbldr RV head with 1mm oversize valves.

Gnarls.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 02:50:27 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1938 on: May 24, 2020, 05:17:21 PM »
On my 1986 Xtracab, 22RE with about 151,000 miles on the odometer….

I’m looking for opinions and experiences on the harmonic balancer and the wear ring that the seal makes on the shaft after high mileage.

How many thousands of an inch of wear on the shaft would be acceptable? 

I don’t want to install a sleeve, so if the wear groove is too deep to prevent a new seal from leaking, I will just replace the harmonic balancer with a new one.

FYI… when I rebuilt the engine I did not think the groove was deep enough to replace the balancer.  And, dummy me, I didn’t write down the depth of the groove, but I remember measuring it.

The seal I ordered is a Timken 710345.

I saw on a video for an oil pump R&R that there is a Toyota seal part number: 90311-45014 that is thinner and rides on a difference place on the shaft.... BUT when I Googled the number is came up as a Timing Cover Seal on Amazon?  But the comments say it's for real and works.

Just curious.

Thank you. :biggthumpup:

Gnarls. :inthedark:




« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 05:37:57 PM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1939 on: May 24, 2020, 07:24:35 PM »
Yes, the new seals are thinner than the orignials.

This allows you to place the seal lip in a slightly different location than the original, so you are on a different place on the balancer.


BTW,   175k + miles and no groove on my balancer...………….


They're just dumbing down the description...………..

Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1940 on: May 25, 2020, 02:25:42 AM »
Yes, the new seals are thinner than the orignials.


Thanks, e…. for confirming that.

Toyota is very proud of their rubber and plastic parts!

However, knowing what I know now about seals, tubes, hoses, and gaskets for these engines, saving a $1 on seals that are not the same quality as a Toyota part is not worth the potential results, more leaks, and having to re-do the job. Dropping tranny to replace the rear crank seal is bear!  Removing and re-installing the oil pump is not a fun job!  I never really had a clear understanding of the potential differences design, quality, and cost, until I did the comparison of 4 different parts for the input shaft seal on my W-56.

Knowing this particular “wear” issue on the harmonic balancer, you’d think a savvy seal manufacturer would make a seal with the seal lip located at a different place on the shaft?

I’ll know more after I pull the oil pump off.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #1941 on: May 28, 2020, 05:47:19 AM »
FRONT CRANKSHAFT SEAL & OIL PUMP GASKET

If you read my evaluation of the input shaft seal on my W56 tranny, you know I did lots measurements and looked at the design of the seals from several different manufacturers. 

I now have the front crankshaft seals from Timken and National that installs in the oil pump.  Again, there is a significant difference in the design and structure of the 2 seals.  I will order the Toyota seal P/N 90311-45014 if the wear groove on the harmonic balancer shaft is too deep, and measure and compare it to the Timken and National.

The Timken part appears to be a considerably better design than the National. Most noticeably is the spring that maintains pressure against the main seal lip area which contacts the balancer shaft.  A larger diameter spring would seem to have more clamping pressure under extreme oil pressure and normal operating oil temperatures.

The lip edge that holds the spring measures very differently: N=.115”  T=.133”, which means there is more rubber area holding the spring on the Timken seal.

The spring diameter:  N= .082”  T= .098”

On the oil side at the base of the seal the Timken has 20 little recessed .015” rectangles in the rubber molding.  I don’t know the actual reason for them, but they will certainly fill with oil and would keep a small amount of oil constantly lubricating the rubber seal lip contact area, especially on a cold start. The same area on the National seal is bear metal.  The oil pump gear area has an .200” orifice that pumps oil constantly right onto the balancer shaft inside the area where the seal sits.

Where the inner lip locates on the balancer shaft is about the same distance on both seals, so the wear groove location would be the same .

Web prices for this seal vary between $7.18 for Timken to $14.58 for an NOK brand, and $13.92 for genuine Toyota P/N 90311-45002 (which is not the thin one P/N 90311-45014). Ebay prices for the thin seal range between $12.98 and $27.00. Pricing, for me, would not be factor in choosing a seal.

The diameter of the rubber string gasket to seal the oil pump to the timing cover measured .090” for the Fel-Pro and .094 for the National.  I will liberally coat this gasket with Ultra Black to seal it better to the timing cover.

It is difficult to produce sufficient lighting to photograph black rubber seals using my Samsung S7. The above evaluation is my un-scientific observation and rough measurements and not intended to be a engineering design comparison.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 06:15:06 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

 
 
 
 
 

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by topkicktech