What do you think of Christ?

[WISHIHADATRUCK]

can I ask you one thing?What kinda proof would you like to see.

[Ebbs15]

can I ask you one thing?What kinda proof would you like to see.

I don't know... but something much more than a story written hundreds of years ago... something undeniable... if I have doubt in it... it's not proof!... I'm not gonna be one of those people who believe because it's the cool thing to do... or just in case... you either believe or not... that's it... so I guess... what I want to see.... I'll know when I see it...

[WISHIHADATRUCK]

how about finding eden or noahs ark these have been found and they can be seen on the net.If you travel to Turkey they have abunch of artifacts

[chim]

hmmm..  I do believe they have found the ark..  but i dont know about the whole Eden thing?!?!?

[blackdiamond]

hmmm..  I do believe they have found the ark..  but i dont know about the whole Eden thing?!?!?

The last I knew the ark was still debated and not undeniably confirmed either.

[WISHIHADATRUCK]

it was found and the turkey goverment has the artifacts from it

[chim]

The ark fits scientifically in accordance with what the Bible says as far as materials used, and size..  but your right..  its the turkish goverment that wont allow access to it.

[Ebbs15]

as far as I know it's still under debate about the ark... I've only heard speculation that it was noah's... yet I've heard no supporting facts other than where it was found that supports that...  so unfortunatly to me... it's just an old boat in Turkey... a good historical find sure... but nothing more...  as for finding Eaden... never heard anything about it... I'll search arround though... but if it was such a huge find... it makes me wonder why I didn't hear about it...

[NO4X]

Turkey is a muslim country.  They have a holy book of their own.  If they have evidence that proves the bible is correct, then that means their holy book is incorrect.

Also, remember, Satan is the ruler of this world.  He wants everyone to doubt God.  That is why you won't hear much about huge biblical finds.  They will simply be brushed aside. 

[Ebbs15]

so if Satan is the ruler of this world... we're already in HELL?   I've never heard anything about Satan being the ruler of this world... only hell it self..

and if that is true... how are there Churches for the worship of God?  why would Satan alow that if he's brushing asside huge biblical finds? 

[blackdiamond]

so if Satan is the ruler of this world... we're already in HELL?   I've never heard anything about Satan being the ruler of this world... only hell it self..

and if that is true... how are there Churches for the worship of God?  why would Satan allow that if he's brushing aside huge biblical finds? 

The short answer is that God gave Adam dominion over the world at creation, but when they sinned Satan became the "ruler" of the world.  God is ultimately in control.  When Christ died on the cross He took back the dominion of the earth from Satan.  In the SDA church this is referred to as the Great Controversy (The ultimate battle between good and evil), the book Trip into the Supernatural actually has alot of the same information, but the author heard it from the "elite" Satan worshipers.

So far our "proof" of the Bible using archaeological findings seems to only be adding to the confusion.  Please post things that you can document along with the specific source.

[blackdiamond]

Turkey is a muslim country.  They have a holy book of their own.  If they have evidence that proves the bible is correct, then that means their holy book is incorrect.

Also, remember, Satan is the ruler of this world.  He wants everyone to doubt God.  That is why you won't hear much about huge biblical finds.  They will simply be brushed aside. 

I am not positive, but I think that the Muslim holy book also contains a "flood" story, I think that most of the holy books actually do.

[NO4X]

I am not positive, but I think that the Muslim holy book also contains a "flood" story, I think that most of the holy books actually do.

Yes it does.  However, the boat in their story rests on a different mountain.

[Ebbs15]

The short answer is that God gave Adam dominion over the world at creation, but when they sinned Satan became the "ruler" of the world.  God is ultimately in control.  When Christ died on the cross He took back the dominion of the earth from Satan.  In the SDA church this is referred to as the Great Controversy (The ultimate battle between good and evil), the book Trip into the Supernatural actually has alot of the same information, but the author heard it from the "elite" Satan worshipers.

So far our "proof" of the Bible using archaeological findings seems to only be adding to the confusion.  Please post things that you can document along with the specific source.

so YOUR saying GOD or Chirst  (good) has control of this world then?  but then why do the Major biblical finds get brushed aside?   
"The Great Controversy" is that over who's in control of the world?

[WISHIHADATRUCK]

We live here to take care of the earth.God or Satan do not own this world.Jesus came to save mankind so no one should be lost.Satan was cast out of heaven and was placed in hell .so neither own this world.See God does have funny side to him,why then would he give us free will to make our own decisions.Its not karma or anything else like the old saying goes for every action there is a equal reaction .

[chim]

I do not believe Satan is in Hell yet.. i actually believe that he has access to the Father and that he spends day and night accusing us. Evidence of this in Jude. Also, I do think that Satan still has control of this world, but he can do nothing unless God allows it.

[Ebbs15]

so why would God allow major biblical finds that may cause millions to believe in him to be swept asside?

[blackdiamond]

I do not believe Satan is in Hell yet.. i actually believe that he has access to the Father and that he spends day and night accusing us. Evidence of this in Jude. Also, I do think that Satan still has control of this world, but he can do nothing unless God allows it.

The book of Job also provides some insight into the "communication" between God and Satan.  In Job, Satan accuses God of being unjust because He is "protecting" Job, so God allows Satan to do anything and everything, short of killing him, to test his faith in God.

[blackdiamond]

so why would God allow major biblical finds that may cause millions to believe in him to be swept asside?

The evidence is there if someone truly goes searching for it.  I think that it is possible that God wants people to take the time to make the knowledge their own rather than having it handed to them.  A belief that God exists doesn't really matter in the end, but it is the seed that would make someone what to know more and find out who God is.

[Ebbs15]

The evidence is there if someone truly goes searching for it. I think that it is possible that God wants people to take the time to make the knowledge their own rather than having it handed to them. A belief that God exists doesn't really matter in the end, but it is the seed that would make someone what to know more and find out who God is.

good point... though I just find it hard to accept that if there was some sort of evidence that like that that god would let it be hidden to only those that pursue it... I mean wether you climb a mountain and see the "Ark" your self and find the proof first hand or hear about it in the news... if it's enough to change your mind and belive in God that's the point isn't it?  correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't God know if you truely have Faith in him or are just doing the "Trendy" thing by "worshiping"...  (the quotes are because I ment that they worship only in action... no real belief behind it.)

[chim]

Nice response BlackDiamond...

Why isnt God that obvious? I dont know why.. but I do know that his ways are above our ways and his thoughts above our thoughts.  Think of this crude analogy...  Im an employer.. I have all knowledge of my job, and I know an employee is looking for the info.... I can show him the answer and then he will know, or I can tell him where to look for the answers and he can search for himself and have a greater knowledge.. in my opinion also, the employee who is willing to look for the answer instead of always just asking, that employee seems more dedicated and interested in progressing in their work..  God does know our hearts, maybe he wants a little more effort from us..

[NO4X]

God specifically tells us to seek and we will find.  Black diamond is right.  The proof is there, we just have to look at it.  God is not going to encroach on your free will. 

The bible states that the fool has said in his heart, there is no God.  Notice it's in his heart.  He didn't say it to himself.  He didn't say it in his mind.  That is why no one in this thread can convince you through logic or any other means.  Only the Holy Spirit can convince you by speaking to your heart.  The little bits of evidence are the seeds of belief that must grow.

[Ebbs15]

Nice response BlackDiamond...

Why isnt God that obvious? I dont know why.. but I do know that his ways are above our ways and his thoughts above our thoughts. Think of this crude analogy... Im an employer.. I have all knowledge of my job, and I know an employee is looking for the info.... I can show him the answer and then he will know, or I can tell him where to look for the answers and he can search for himself and have a greater knowledge.. in my opinion also, the employee who is willing to look for the answer instead of always just asking, that employee seems more dedicated and interested in progressing in their work.. God does know our hearts, maybe he wants a little more effort from us..

very true but doesn't god just want us to have him in our hearts?  as long as he's there he doesn't care how little or much... right?  or am I drinking to early again lol

[chim]

I have two boys, they mean everything to me.. I don't want to just be in there hearts in a basic, minor amount.. I want to be in there hearts completely.. I want them to love me as much as I love them.. but I cant force that.. I can tell them as much as I want, but they have to feel it in order to reciprocate it....  Thats God.. he loved us so much that he actually sacrificed his own son to save us...  I dont know if I could do that.

[Ebbs15]

I have two boys, they mean everything to me.. I don't want to just be in there hearts in a basic, minor amount.. I want to be in there hearts completely.. I want them to love me as much as I love them.. but I cant force that.. I can tell them as much as I want, but they have to feel it in order to reciprocate it.... Thats God.. he loved us so much that he actually sacrificed his own son to save us... I dont know if I could do that.

ok... (puts down drink)  good example... uh... damn no argument... guess the searching part is up to me.... ok... then I begin my search...

good to FINALLY talk to people who can support their argument/ideas/beliefs with LOGICAL thoughts and examples... good on ya  

[germ]

Many years ago, i was having a very hard time with the concept of God and belief. Like Ebbs15, I needed PROOF that God was real. Without going into details, as they're not important, I was having a very difficult time in my life, and my wife, who has much more faith than I did suggested that I pray about it. "Hmmff" I thought to myself, but reluctantly, I gave God my ultimatum (sp?). In a nutshell (which is where I probably belong anyway), I said my defiant prayer and waited to be struck by lightning.  Didn't happen. The next morning, as I drove to work, I had all but forgotten about my monologe to God. Something happened, not 50 feet from my house that instantly changed my life forever. Again, the details aren't the important part, but I would have accidently killed someone had God not stepped in and saved him, and I knew it. I knew in an instant that this was my lightning bolt. This was the 2x4 over the head. It still took me several years for me to come to grips with my new found belief, and there was alot of studing. I still have a great deal of scepticism (sp?) for "the church", but my belief in God is rock solid.

I'm not sharing this to convince you (or anyone else) that God is real. I'm sharing it with you to possibly demonstrate that God does answer our prayers, and He will divulge Himself to us if we ask. It won't always be a lightning bolt, or a mountain moving, but when it happens, you'll know. God will have sent his Holy Spirit to prepare your heart, and swing that 2x4 to make sure you get the message.

I've been fairly silent on this thread, more because of being very busy at work than anything else, but I've tried to keep up, and I want to applaud everyone for their well thought out, considerate and honest opinions... believers and non-believers alike.      

Erik

[MR_DIY]

religion is based on faith. you can't "prove" it.

I am a Christian (Southern Baptist)... you have to believe and accept God to know the feeling.

[Ebbs15]

religion is based on faith. you can't "prove" it.

I am a Christian (Southern Baptist)... you have to believe and accept God to know the feeling.

and see that's where I have an issue... how can I have faith in something that provides me no proof?  to me that's like jumping with a parachute that someone else packed for you... sure it COULD be fine... but I'm way to skeptical of a person to rely on that...

[chim]

Its not about religion.. its about our relationship with Christ. If its about the Bible, i do believe most of it can be proved...  But the You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment.

One key word that I see here is all your "mind".. meaning that it has to make sense to you..  dont follow it blindly if it doesnt makes sense.. to me it makes sense, and logically is right... a lot of people say its all about faith.. but its not... its got to make sense to you. Faith is definitly important, but were not told to follow it blindly. That would cause confusion, and the Lord is not about confusion.

[NO4X]

Right on!!!  It's not about a religion, because quite frankly, I have a problem with every religion out there.  But I don't have a problem with Christ, or the bible.  Much like Germ, God gave me the 2x4, several times. (I may be denser than Germ). 

And I do believe the whole concept of faith has become cliche.  We aren't saved by our faith...We are saved by God's faith.  To quote Chim on this subject, The bible is the most sold, most translated, most copied, most tested, most criticized, and most defended book our there...and it's still the same.    It has stood the test.  It takes more faith not to believe in it.