What do you think of Christ?

[blackdiamond]

I posted this in the Daily Bible Text thread but will post again here:

"Here is something interesting to think about.

Joh 16:21-22 KJVR  A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.  (22)  And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

Christ compared His 2nd Coming to a woman giving birth.  Some translations use the word "contraction" as part of the description of sorrow.  What happens to a woman's contractions as the time of birth is getting closer?

Mat 24:3-8 KJVR  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?  (4)  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.  (5)  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.  (6)  And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.  (7)  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.  (  All these are the beginning of sorrows.

There are areas where Christ told us to watch for signs of His Coming.   Look at them closely and see for yourself if the "contractions" are getting closer together.

(1)   False Christs - http://savvytraveler.publicradio.org/show/features/2000/20000603/jerusalem.shtml
(2)   Wars and rumors of war (disputes between nations)
(3)   Famines
(4)   Pestilence - A usually fatal epidemic disease
(5)   Earthquakes (natural disasters)

All of these things have been around for centuries; however, if you have been paying attention to history, the number of events is increasing significantly.  As an example, in 2001 there were about 150 terrorist related incidents and it was the highest on record by a significant margin, in 2003 or 2004 it had climbed to over 600.  It doesn't seem like an entire month can go by without some type of natural disaster happening, there isn't time to even clean up between them anymore.

Matthew 24 has some amazing information in it.

I noticed yesterday that the Clear Word (I am not positive of the paraphrase translation) said that the very planets would be moved in space.  I found it interesting since the scientists said that the earth moved on its axis during the big tsunami."

[blackdiamond]

Two questions/observations:

(1) I was watching a Sunday morning sermon on the Ten Commandments and I heard something that I had never heard before.  The pastor (I have no idea who it was) was talking about how God both spoke and wrote the Ten Commandments, which is The Law, and it can't be changed.  Then he started explaining the commandments one at a time.  Being a Sabbath (Saturday) keeper I was obviously interested in how he handled the 4th commandment.  He made the statement that the apostles kept Sunday as the Sabbath and quoted the following verse:

Col 2:16 KJVR " Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

This is the first time that I have heard someone claim that the Apostles kept Sunday as the Sabbath.  The verse above is often used to make the claim that no day is more holy than any other, but this was new to me, any thoughts?

(2)  Did you know that in the time of John Wycliffe, after pope Gregory XI died, there were actually two popes elected that claimed infallibility and also that they other was the anti-Christ?  Both promised heaven as a reward for those that helped them conquer the other.  I thought this was quite interesting as well.

[Ebbs15]

This may be a bit off-topic, but it is kind of a seguay into Daniel and Revalations (I guess)

Can't remember exactly where it is, but the Bible tells us that in the end times, God will let go of his control of the 4 corners of the earth, and the winds will begin to destroy the earth. (PMV=Poor memory version).

Is it me, or does it seem as though we're having busy time in the "natural disaster" department? Tsunami, 24 named hurricanes this year, Tornadoes in Kansas, Eathquakes in Jappan and Pakistan (38 thousand people dead!?!). Just seems to me that it is more than a coincidence.

I wonder how close we are to the end times. I've heard some say 2012 and others say 2007. Not sure I believe either, but what are your thoughts?

Erik

look back through history... I doubt this is a unique year... though more people died... there are also more people alive today than ever in history... so death count can't really be taken into account...  but as for sheer number... I can't believe that this year was an outragious one...  I think it has to do with more media attenion, the world being smaller than it was 40 years ago. 

even if it WAS a HUGE year for disasters... I would think it has more to do with Global warming than the end of days... (horrible movie btw)  then again... who knows lol

[germ]

even if it WAS a HUGE year for disasters... I would think it has more to do with Global warming than the end of days...

Personally, I think global warming is a bunch of hooyee. I will concede that the earth is getting warmer, but we've only been keeping track of weather for the last 100-150 years, and don't really know 1/10 of 1% of nothing when it comes to how the eath's temperatures change. I think it is pretty unrelaiable to think that our SUV's have damaged the earth so quickly that it's causing a global change.

Just my $.02

Erik

[Ebbs15]

Personally, I think global warming is a bunch of hooyee. I will concede that the earth is getting warmer, but we've only been keeping track of weather for the last 100-150 years, and don't really know 1/10 of 1% of nothing when it comes to how the eath's temperatures change. I think it is pretty unrelaiable to think that our SUV's have damaged the earth so quickly that it's causing a global change.

Just my $.02

Erik

I agree with you to a point... I don't think global warming is as big an issue as people are making it out but I do believe it is real...   and your point

we've only been keeping track of weather for the last 100-150 years, and don't really know 1/10 of 1% of nothing when it comes to how the eath's temperatures change

exactlythe same point I was trying to make about the natrual disasters...

[chim]

I was at a memorial service yesterday, and it was sad to me to see how many people believed that their buddy who died was going to be in heaven drinking and playing porker with his dead buddies. Sadly this is what most believe. Since they havent killed anyone and that since they have been fairly good that God will welcome them in..  They dont know that God has said all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and that the only way to the Father is through his Son Christ Jesus. Its so important for us to tell the truth and win souls to Christ... not confuse people with doctrines outside of salvation, but sticking to gospel principles of salvation. Whats more important, winning souls or edifying the church? I can tell you right now its winning souls. I believe that Christ is coming very soon. Lets act like it and show ourselves as approved workmen! What will you be doing when Christ returns?

[Ebbs15]

I was at a memorial service yesterday, and it was sad to me to see how many people believed that their buddy who died was going to be in heaven drinking and playing porker with his dead buddies. Sadly this is what most believe. Since they havent killed anyone and that since they have been fairly good that God will welcome them in.. They dont know that God has said all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and that the only way to the Father is through his Son Christ Jesus. Its so important for us to tell the truth and win souls to Christ... not confuse people with doctrines outside of salvation, but sticking to gospel principles of salvation. Whats more important, winning souls or edifying the church? I can tell you right now its winning souls. I believe that Christ is coming very soon. Lets act like it and show ourselves as approved workmen! What will you be doing when Christ returns?

you make a good point... I know alot of people that fit that discription... though I do not believe in it myself I have read enough of the bible to remember that Christ said no one goes unto the father except through him...  someone dropped off a little religious comic on my desk the other day... basicly laying that out... if I get time I'll try to scann it... it was pretty good...

as for where I will be?  well if Christ returns anytime soon... I'll be kissing my butt goodbye... 

[chim]

Don't wait!..  Its a FREE gift.. it doesn't mean you are under some obligation to start being a perfect saint, that you have to start giving any money.. etc..  but Christ will change you.... I just wouldn't take any chance..  why wait! There is absolutely nothing to loose..  but everything to gain! I have never once heard anyone say that they regret making a decision for Christ!

[Ebbs15]

Don't wait!.. Its a FREE gift.. it doesn't mean you are under some obligation to start being a perfect saint, that you have to start giving any money.. etc.. but Christ will change you.... I just wouldn't take any chance.. why wait! There is absolutely nothing to loose.. but everything to gain! I have never once heard anyone say that they regret making a decision for Christ!

and I wish I could... I can't just ignore every doubt I ever had because I WANT to... my mind doesn't work that way... because even though I would tell myself I believe... deep down... i'd still have the same doubts... basicly just putting on a front that i believed...

I wether I regret it or not... I can't make a decision for or against with out my heart being behind it... maybe it's just me... but I need proof...

[chim]

Even if you are thinking there is a small chance of what we say is right and that if you dont believe that you will spend an eternity in Hell, even if you only believe 5% of what we say, then why mess around... test God now.... If you felt it 100% in your heart then you would probably already be a believer...  Even if you dont believe 100% that there is a God, try it, pray to him..  ask him very simply as a skeptic.. ask him if he is real and if what you have heard is right... to make it known to you...  but be ready. because he will answer that!

[Ebbs15]

Even if you are thinking there is a small chance of what we say is right and that if you dont believe that you will spend an eternity in Hell, even if you only believe 5% of what we say, then why mess around... test God now.... If you felt it 100% in your heart then you would probably already be a believer... Even if you dont believe 100% that there is a God, try it, pray to him.. ask him very simply as a skeptic.. ask him if he is real and if what you have heard is right... to make it known to you... but be ready. because he will answer that!

but that's my point... I AM testing god... I am and have been researching for a while... but have found nothing that convinces me...

let me clarify my stance on this... it's not that I don't believe in God or Christ... it's that I believe there is NO way to Prove or Disprove his existance... Science nor the Bible can't prove they did/didn't exist... and before you dissagree with that last statement... they can't prove in MY MIND that they do or donot exist...

[chim]

How are you testing God? What are you doing to test him..  just by asking us questions? Did you ever try just doing the simplest of prayers..  even if your doing it as a skeptic? Thats the key!

[blackdiamond]

but that's my point... I AM testing god... I am and have been researching for a while... but have found nothing that convinces me...

let me clarify my stance on this... it's not that I don't believe in God or Christ... it's that I believe there is NO way to Prove or Disprove his existance... Science nor the Bible can't prove they did/didn't exist... and before you dissagree with that last statement... they can't prove in MY MIND that they do or donot exist...

There is absolutely ZERO doubt that Jesus Christ existed in history, whether or not He was/is the Son of God is where the faith becomes necessary.

[Ebbs15]

ZERO?  I doubt that... I've never seen proof that Jesus Christ existed... yes he is mentioned in the bible... but as I've said before... the bible is a story (to me) nothing more... and I've never heard of any proof outside of that...   anyways... yeah I know Faith is a huge part... but I have to go with my heart... my heart has doubts... I can not have faith in something I have doubt in...

and Chim... I have prayed... but nothing yet... but who's to say... how does that song go... some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers...

[chim]

Ebbs15...  If you prayed then Im confidant that God will honor that, and that its only a matter of time. It may be happening right now and you dont even know it. Its awesome just to see that you are willing to do that and even question.   

[BLACKDOG]

Hey ebbs, check out "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel(?)  Its a good book, written by a court investigator who set out to disprove Christ at the beginning.  His findings actually led him to Christ, and he wrote the book documenting his research.  I beleive its been bruoght up before.  Hate to see you so close, and never close the gap.

[blackdiamond]

Hey ebbs, check out "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel(?)  Its a good book, written by a court investigator who set out to disprove Christ at the beginning.  His findings actually led him to Christ, and he wrote the book documenting his research.  I beleive its been bruoght up before.  Hate to see you so close, and never close the gap.

Indeed that is a great book...I suspect that he has a copy in hand.

I am currently reading a book called "The Battle for the Bible" by David Marshal that I plan to forward to AK along with a copy of "Trip into the Supernatural" by Roger Morneau.

[Ebbs15]

Hey ebbs, check out "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel(?) Its a good book, written by a court investigator who set out to disprove Christ at the beginning. His findings actually led him to Christ, and he wrote the book documenting his research. I beleive its been bruoght up before. Hate to see you so close, and never close the gap.

Indeed as Blackdiamond stated I do have a copy... thanks to him... 

I haven't had a chance to start reading it though... but I'll probably start tonight... 

thanks 

[BLACKDOG]

Indeed as Blackdiamond stated I do have a copy... thanks to him... 

I haven't had a chance to start reading it though... but I'll probably start tonight... 

thanks 

Sweet hope you get some good stuff out of it, hope it answers some pictures for you!

[dnargel]

Dont know where to begin on this one...

what do I think of JC

Hey....he's JC....what else is there to say.

excellent reference material: "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel
-written in journalist format with various religious and non-religous historical cites

[blackdiamond]

Since this thread has been very quiet recently, I thought that I would post some key points from the series that my pastor is doing.

The purpose is to show how to use the Lord's Prayer as a model.

Mat 6:9-13 KJVR  After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.  (10)  Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.  (11)  Give us this day our daily bread.  (12)  And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.  (13)  And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.

He has broken the prayer down into 6 sections (plus 1) and is covering one each week.

(1) Praise - Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
(2) Intercession - Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
(3) Supplication & Petition - Give us this day our daily bread.
(4) Redemption - And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
(5) TBD – Didn't get them written down fast enough
(6) TBD – See above.
(7) Rest & Listening - Not directly part of the Lord's Prayer

The first week he talked about praising God and the quote to remember is, "What you praise God to be is what He will be to you."

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

4 Keys:

(1)   Father - personal

Gal 4:6 KJVR  And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

(2)   Heaven – Going into the presence of God

Heb 10:19 KJVR  Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

(3)   Hallowed – meaning to honor or praise

(4)   Name – I am, Yahweh, Jehovah, Lord

He gave 8 names (the names are from the original language) of God that we can praise Him for, using the Lord's Prayer as a model:

(1) Jehovah Tsidkenu -  The Lord Our Righteousness

Jer 23:6 KJVR  In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

(2) Jehovah Shaw-lome - The Lord Our Peace

Jdg 6:23-24 KJVR  And the LORD said unto him, Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die.  (24)  Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovah-shalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abi-ezrites.

(3) Jehovah Mik-ked-awsh - The Lord that Santifies

Lev 20:8 KJVR  And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify you.

(4) Jehovah Shammah - God is There (Presence)

Eze 48:35 KJVR  It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there.

(5) Jahovah Raw-faw - God is my Healer

Exo 15:26 KJVR  And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for am the LORD that healeth thee.

(6) Jehovah Jireh - God Will Provide

Gen 22:13-14 KJVR  And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.  (14)  And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

(7) Jehovah Nisee - God is my Banner or Victory

Exo 17:15 KJVR  And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovah-nissi:

(8) Yehoshua - The Lord is Salvation

JESUS

Note: This is not an all-inclusive list and it has no particular order.

The bottom line is that if we want to follow the example of the Lord's prayer, it only makes sense to start by praising God for who He is.

[chim]

I tend to feel like a poser when i try to use fancy titles and fancy names that i dont really fully understand.. i talk to the Lord like we have been friends for a while and that he knows me and we have an intimate relationship.... 

[blackdiamond]

His intent wasn't to have everyone praying using the "Big Fancy" names, but he did mention that it was working for him.  The intent was for us to understand the importance of praising God for who He is and what He has done based on the model prayer.

[chim]

So when you say, "it was working for him", does that mean that his prayers were not working before? I always was under the impression that God heard our prayer no matter what... no matter what formula I use, no matter if I remember to praise him or not....   seems to me when we address our "abba" father, that we do it in the way we would address a father here on earth, with Love and all respect....   I guess I am just thinking of a prayer to a God where I have a complete special relationship with that I can just think, or whisper, or audibly say my prayer no matter what size, no matter how formal, no matter where I am for whatever reason and he hears me and honors that.

[BLACKDOG]

I tend to feel like a poser when i try to use fancy titles and fancy names that i dont really fully understand.. i talk to the Lord like we have been friends for a while and that he knows me and we have an intimate relationship.... 

Right there with ya bud   I'll sit there and talk to God in my truck, like he's sitting next to me, and people look at me like I'm an idiot sometimes. 

Personally, I feel that the long winded orayers are in most cases people trying to make themselves look good in front of others.  IMO God's relationship with us is a simple one.  He loves us onconditionally, and we are to love him the same.  His sent his son as a carpenter, not a scholar or king, but to a simple life on earth.  The way Christ died was that of a common criminal, not that of royalty, and his clothes that he wore and the way that he lived were simple.  I believe the fancy words and stuff are indications of self promotion and nothing more.  To clarify, I'm not saying we shouldn't call him Abba Father, Jehovah, or any of his names, but rather the other words often included in prayer.

bd, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "it was workin for him" either.  It seems like you are saying that it kinda boosts God's self esteem when you use the fancy words?  please clarify

[blackdiamond]

So when you say, "it was working for him", does that mean that his prayers were not working before?

Now if my wife's computer doesn't lock up again (my wireless isn't working for some reason) then I might be able to actually respond...

Basically he was saying that by following the suggestions that he is presenting his prayer life has improved.  He has been able to consistantly pray more than the "30-second" or "5-minute" prayer and his relationship with God has deepened.  He has been testing it out for several months prior to presenting it, and I can tell you that it has made a difference in him.

It seems reasonable that the prophets in the Bible and Jesus spent significant time in prayer talking to the Father.  My pastor isn't saying that this is the only way to pray, simply another way to pray.  It makes sense to me that the quick thought prayers might not be all that there is for prayer since that type of relationship with my wife would be a bust.     

[blackdiamond]

I have heard several different ways to use the Lord's Prayer as an example since the text says, "After this manner therefore pray ye..."

The Bible also says that we shouldn't use repetition so simply repeating the Lord's Prayer must not be was is intended.  What are your thoughts?

[NO4X]

God is our father.  As a father myself, I crave a conversation with my children.  Any conversation.  God is the same way.

We wonder why we have so many difficulties in our lives...because it's the only time God hears from us. 

I better get to prayin'.

[blackdiamond]

God is our father.  As a father myself, I crave a conversation with my children.  Any conversation.  God is the same way.

We wonder why we have so many difficulties in our lives...because it's the only time God hears from us. 

I better get to prayin'.

[chim]

I see the trend in my life is that I am in a constant state of 30 second and 5 minute or less prayers...  like Blackdog, just talking my Lord all day, keeping the communication line open....  If I feel led to pray longer I will, but the cool thing is that the Lord already knows what Im going to pray about before I pray, he just wants to hear it