What do you think of Christ?

[chim]

If God didnt authorize the change then why did he allow Paul, a pharisee of pharisees, to say that man can hold to anyday he wants and have it in his Holy Word. And if we are going to be hard core about holding to this one of the Ten Commandments then why dont we make such a big deal about the others?? Silly legalism that has nothing to do with your salvation. Gods love is the same wether or not you do what he wants... hard concept.. but it doesnt change... I know personally that if I never went to Church God would still love me the same.  I dont care what the Catholic church did....  look at our Christmas roots, Easter... and many other things..  I dont care if they did have pagan roots...  I do things based on what I know, and what they mean to me now. Might as well not wake up since everyday is based off of some pagan name....  and how can we prove that the days are still the same as they were... is today really Tuesday.. or did the calendar guys goof and this should really be wednesday?!?!?!?!?!

[blackdiamond]

If God didn't authorize the change then why did he allow Paul, a pharisee of pharisees, to say that man can hold to anyday he wants and have it in his Holy Word. And if we are going to be hard core about holding to this one of the Ten Commandments then why dont we make such a big deal about the others?? Silly legalism that has nothing to do with your salvation. Gods love is the same wether or not you do what he wants... hard concept.. but it doesnt change... I know personally that if I never went to Church God would still love me the same.  I dont care what the Catholic church did....  look at our Christmas roots, Easter... and many other things..  I dont care if they did have pagan roots...  I do things based on what I know, and what they mean to me now. Might as well not wake up since everyday is based off of some pagan name....  and how can we prove that the days are still the same as they were... is today really Tuesday.. or did the calendar guys goof and this should really be wednesday?!?!?!?!?!

I will post more on this tonight, but for starters...

I do believe that we are held responsible for all 10 Commandments (the moral law was not nailed to the cross as many believe).  We are ultimately judged by our characters, which means to me that I will be judged on my willingness to follow what God has said that I should do (follow His law).  Will committing a single sin keep me from salvation even if it is my last act prior to death? No, but continually and knowingly sinning (even the small sins) will eventually work their way into our characters.  I do believe that we can miss out on the gift of salvation by only one small sin that we won't let go of and commit it to Christ for help.

I would agree that adding to God's law (as the Jews did) is indeed legalism, but assuming that Christ's blood covers all sins so it doesn't matter how we keep the law is a huge mistake.

As a side note, it is possible to trace the calender back to the time of Christ, so it is possible to worship on the same day that Christ, our example, did.  There was even a period of time when the calender dates changed, but the daily cycle was not changed.  One of the amazing things about the weekly cycle is that it is the only thing relative to "time" that isn't linked to something lunar, its only basis is creation.  The calendar dates were shifted about 10 days because they had calculated the months/years wrong and needed to be corrected to match the lunar cycle, but this didn't change the daily cycle.

Personally, I choose to take part in the "pagan" Holidays because they were initiated by man and are not going against the teachings of the Bible.  The Sabbath was started by God at Creation and man changed it because they felt like it.

Someone on the thread said that they choose to worship of Sunday because it fits their schedule better than any other day.  This doesn't sound like a good example of putting God #1, plus doesn't it sound reasonable that Satan would mess with the Sabbath the same way that he attacks the other commandments?  Don't get me wrong, I struggle with putting God #1 in my life all the time so I am not judging anyone by that statement.

[chim]

I do believe that we can miss out on the gift of salvation by only one small sin that we won't let go of and commit it to Christ for help.

What you are saying here is that Christs sacrifice wasn't enough to cover our sins no matter how many times we do them. I will be the first to admit that I have bad thoughts, or should I say immoral thoughts. I don't want these thoughts to be there but every now and then when I see a hot girl walking or on TV or whatever I can have an immoral thought. No matter how many times I pray to not have these thoughts, I guarantee everyone will have them. Its part of our sinful nature. If anyone here tries to say this doesn't happen then they are a liar. Does this mean that we will not be saved because we commit the same sin over and over???  ..... NO!!!! Christs sacrifice was so powerful, so complete that it covers EVERYTHING if we accept that free gift. I think if everyone believed what you are saying then we are all destined for doom. Thank God we can rest in him.

Now here is the misunderstood part... As a rebuttal you will say, then doesn't that mean we can sin as much as we want and do whatever we want because we are covered and saved.. the answer is NO. If we are truly saved then we will work to the best of our ability to resist sin and temptation.. but sin is also our thoughts, and not just our actions... We can be physically sin free for as long as humanly possible, but in thought no one person could go a day! You bark because your a dog, you don't bark to become a dog. You do the works because your saved, not to be saved. Nothing you can do can make you anymore saved or any less saved.

but assuming that Christ's blood covers all sins so it doesn't matter how we keep the law is a huge mistake.

My previous statements should clear this up.

Personally, I choose to take part in the "pagan" Holidays because they were initiated by man and are not going against the teachings of the Bible.

Any pagan practices we do are totally against the Bible! They give honor to other gods. Fornication was initiated by man.. by the same reasoning does that mean it is not against the Bible?

The Sabbath was started by God at Creation and man changed it because they felt like it.

Like the Bible states in Romans.. I think Paul is the authority on the issue..  he was once as you are and even more hard core when it came to the sabbath. But he understood Christ and relayed his message...  understand that even if it is more conveinant to worship Sunday it doesn't make it null. I choose to worship several days a week, just because its not Saturday does that mean its null in affect? No! You are not answering the Romans passages, you are ignoring them because it doesn't fit in to your beliefs..  And Satan attacks ALL commandments... he is by no means hitting the sabbath harder than others.. in fact I would say that there are others that are under way more attack than the sabbath. There is freedom in Christ... not freedom to live sinfully, but we by nature are sinful.. that will never change... all we can do is try to live with help from the Holy Spirit. We can pray, Lord I know that I am a sinner.. I know that I will probably continue to have sinful thoughts, this I cant help.. I just pray that you will help me to be strong and not act on those thoughts and to keep you close in my thoughts and be conformed more to your image.

[blackdiamond]

"Now here is the misunderstood part... As a rebuttal you will say, then doesn't that mean we can sin as much as we want and do whatever we want because we are covered and saved.. the answer is NO. If we are truly saved then we will work to the best of our ability to resist sin and temptation.. but sin is also our thoughts, and not just our actions... We can be physically sin free for as long as humanly possible, but in thought no one person could go a day! You bark because your a dog, you don't bark to become a dog. You do the works because your saved, not to be saved. Nothing you can do can make you anymore saved or any less saved."

I completely agree that if someone is truly a saved Christian then the blood of Christ covers all of their sins.  I have mixed feelings on the question of if it is possible to live a sinless life, your dog analogy is good, but it doesn't account for the help of Christ in our lives.  Humans are sinful by nature, but Christ was born without any advantage which means that he also had a sinful nature, He stayed connected to his Father and the challenge is there for us to do the same.  I guess where we strongly disagree is in the fact that salvation can be lost.  As waskillywabbit said before, salvation is a process and not a goal.  We have to stay connected to Christ just like we would to a husband or wife to make a marriage work.  Salvation is a free gift for me to accept, but I am also free to not accept it anytime I wish.  Does that mean that I wasn't truly saved?  Not at all, as an example I have a co-worker that used to be a football fan, but when he found out that while he was at the home games his wife was entertaining herself with the guy that provided him with the tickets.  He no longer enjoys football, but does that mean that he was never truly a fan at all?  We must be actively working to live more and more like Christ each day, a daily personal relationship is the key.  There are some people in my church that are members of the 5 o'clock club, they get up every morning at 5 am to start their days with God.  Is this required, No, but I could learn alot about dedication from them.

The current versions of the pagan holidays are no longer pagan in nature in my opionion, but i can certainly understand why some people choose not to participate in them.  Thanksgiving and Christmas are the two biggest family days in my family, easter was a huge day growing up as well.  The Bible says that we can eat meat offered to idols (I do eat meat) because they have no power over us, so I take that to mean that if I  am not worshiping the pagan roots of the holidays then it doesn't apply to me. 

As for fornication, the Bible specifically points out that it is wrong, it is even in the ten commandments so I don't quite understand the logic.

I will do more reading on the Sabbath issue and see what you are talking about.  Can you point me more specifically to what you are talking about?

[chim]

Jhn 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 


Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 


Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 


Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 

Rest easy! The Lord wont let you loose your salvation!!!!

[blackdiamond]

I think that you nailed it perfectly...

John 6:37 says that if we go to Christ, He will not cast us out.

John 6:40 says that if we believe on Christ, we MAY have everlasting life.

It doesn't say that if we believe on Christ we WILL have eternal life, the choice is ours.  The gift of salvation is always available to us, but we have to actively maintain our relationship with Christ to have eternal life it is a life-long process.

[blackdiamond]

Dang computer locked up as I was finishing my post 

SDAs are not the only Christian group that keeps the 7th day, and even though it is one of the most distinguishing beliefs of the church, it wasn't actually founded on that belief alone.

I have always understood the Sabbath was the Sabbath of Creation and the sabbaths were all of the other "holidays" that the Israelites kept such as the sabbath years every 7 years (and then the year of jubilee every 50 years).  When I get the book back, I read something very interesting related to this, honestly not sure exactly what to think about it, but I will post some of the info for discussion.

As for all days being kept the same, I think that it is huge misconception.  At Creation God gave us an example of resting on the 7th day and "created" the Sabbath. The 4th commandment says to work 6 days and rest on the 7th.  When Christ was on earth it was His custom to worship on the Sabbath (7th day).  Our only Biblical example is to worship on the 7th day and to keep it in a different way than the others.  I am always amazed that people want to follow Christ's example in everything except worship.  Worship of the beast and his image is a very important theme in Revelation.

A daily relationship with Christ isn't the same as worship, it is only one aspect of worship.

[Rock Hopper]

Wow!  What a topic for this board.  I have been looking at many of the posts on this tread and find it very interesting.  Most of it seems to be a discussion of the differences in doctrine.  Short background on my beliefs: I attended a Methodist church as a kid.  I began attending a Baptist General Conference church at about the age of 31.

The majority of the topics discussed in this thread boil down to one main topic.  Are we under the Law of Moses or are we under Grace? 
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Romans 3:23-26 NIV

4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:4-7

We are clearly no longer held to the restrictions of the Law.  Living under the Law is simply not possible.  The atonments and sacrifices made under the Law simply covered over the sins.  Jesus's work on the cross wiped our sins clean.  They are gone forever.

*********************************************************************************************************************

On the topic of working on the Sabbath:
23One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24The Pharisees said to him, "Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"
25He answered, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions."
27Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Mark 2:23-27
Working on the Sabbath is permissable under Grace.  We are called to worship and recieve God's word.  But that does not mean we have to attend church to do that.  I have been battling with colon cancer for almost three years and due to continual chemo treatments, I can only attend church on a limited basis.  I also belong to a Christian Four Wheel Drive club called 4x4Him.  We plan weekend trips that take us away from our home churches.  While out in God's country, we hold our own service called "Worship in the Wilderness".  We spend time in worship and either have a pastor or other member deliver a message.

For those interested in a great 4x4 club that strives to bring honor to God while enjoying the world He has made for us, please check out:

http://www.4x4him.com
or
http://www.christianfourwheelers.com

We have a discussion forum setup for topics from wheeling to faith.  You can find the forum at:
http://www.christianfourwheelers.com/forum

God Bless

[chim]

It doesn't say that if we believe on Christ we WILL have eternal life, the choice is ours.  The gift of salvation is always available to us, but we have to actively maintain our relationship with Christ to have eternal life it is a life-long process.

Ok, since you arent accepting these scriptures... lets see who WILL have eternal life....

Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

These and many more promise eternal life.. its not a maybe, or a may, or a might...  its clear!!

NOTHING says we have to actively maintain this or work to keep it..  show me.

You guys need to look up what pagan means as I don't think you have a clue what it means and how it relates to the historical context in which you speak.

This is as good as assuming that we havent read the Bible! Dont make blind comments like this... its retarded to assume that only you know about pagan rituals and practices. If you see something wrong here..  tell us your thoughts..  i would like to see where the things I have said about "pagan" things have been in error.

Even the demons believe...

For all sin and fall short of the glory of God.  This is an ongoing process...

Not sure where you are going with this and then Im not sure why you misquote the scripture??  point?

Our relationship w/ Christ is what gives us the possibility for eternal life w/ him...if we so choose to end the relationship what is God going to do?  Make us have a relationship with him?  You know that he wont' do that...once saved always saved is a false doctrine.  If it were true we'd still be walking around naked and living in the Garden of Eden.

This makes no sense... and from a "retired pastor"? People are going to have spirtitual ups and downs their whole life.. does this mean that God is going to take their name out of the book of life each time, and re-write it in each time?? Come on... are you trying to tel me that Adam and Eve were going to Hell because they messed up...  I hope you have never messed up!

[blackdiamond]

"It doesn't say that if we believe on Christ we WILL have eternal life, the choice is ours.  The gift of salvation is always available to us, but we have to actively maintain our relationship with Christ to have eternal life it is a life-long process.

Ok, since you arent accepting these scriptures... lets see who WILL have eternal life....

Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

These and many more promise eternal life.. its not a maybe, or a may, or a might...  its clear!!"

You are correct that those that choose to believe (accept) Christ's sacrifice have eternal life, but nothing says that we can't choose NOT to accept it at a later date.

"Even the demons believe...

For all sin and fall short of the glory of God.  This is an ongoing process...

Not sure where you are going with this and then Im not sure why you misquote the scripture??  point?"

I think the intended point here is that Satan and his evil demons believe in God/Christ, they lived in heaven so they know that He is real, but they don't have automatically have eternal life for their belief because they have chosen to go against Gods laws.  Also, they had salvation/eternal life while in heaven, but have lost it because they chose to go against God.

"This makes no sense... and from a "retired pastor"? People are going to have spirtitual ups and downs their whole life.. does this mean that God is going to take their name out of the book of life each time, and re-write it in each time?? Come on... are you trying to tel me that Adam and Eve were going to Hell because they messed up...  I hope you have never messed up!"

I know that I mess up all the time, there is a HUGE difference between ups and downs and blatantly choosing to no longer follow God as Satan did.

[blackdiamond]

Welcome to the discussion Rock Hopper, I will take a look at your post in more detail tonight and respond.

[NO4X]

"but Christ was born without any advantage which means that he also had a sinful nature"

Since Christ is Yahweh in the flesh, how did he have a sinful nature?

My Christ has no sinful nature...never had it...never will. 

[chim]

You are correct that those that choose to believe (accept) Christ's sacrifice have eternal life, but nothing says that we can't choose NOT to accept it at a later date.

So answer this point then... If when you get saved and your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life, is God going to erase it when you fall out of fellowship with him, and then re-write it when you are strong in him again... NO! This makes no sense, you are assuming since it wasnt spoken that we can loose our salvation then we must be able to....  There is no Biblical support that we can loose it.....  I have yet to see it.

There are a lot of people out there that think since they are good people that they will go the Heaven, but you ask them, what makes them good?? They may say, well I only sleep with one woman, I dont sleep around... I dont get drunk all the time.... I am nice to people.... yet how does this look in Gods eyes?? God says there is none righteous... not one..  yet through Christ we have been made righteous..  I think that Im going to sin my whole life..  even if I try hard not to.. I dont want to ... but its my nature.. I pray God will help me not to as much.. but the point is...  when we become saved Christ has been made righteousness for us and now we have been paid for... he is not going to take that away and return payment.. the work is done.. complete....  he wont go back on his deal no matter what we may do.

I think the intended point here is that Satan and his evil demons believe in God/Christ, they lived in heaven so they know that He is real, but they don't have automatically have eternal life for their belief because they have chosen to go against Gods laws.  Also, they had salvation/eternal life while in heaven, but have lost it because they chose to go against God.

Satan and his demons are not human. Jesus Christ didint die for Angels, demons, Satan, cats, dogs, or whatever.. he died for man. Im not sure what path this is going down but has nothing to do with us and our salvation.

I know that I mess up all the time, there is a HUGE difference between ups and downs and blatantly choosing to no longer follow God as Satan did.

No one but God knows why Satan did what he did, and what the circumstances are.. we just know the result of it. If someone blatantly chooses to no longer follow God then I would seriously question wether or not they were saved to begin with. I doubt anyone who truly had the Holy Spirit would do that. But again... what you are saying and assuming is speculation not written scripture.

***WELCOME ROCK HOPPER, WE WELCOME AND VALUE YOUR INPUT***

[blackdiamond]

"but Christ was born without any advantage which means that he also had a sinful nature"

Since Christ is Yahweh in the flesh, how did he have a sinful nature?

My Christ has no sinful nature...never had it...never will. 

There is definately room for debate on this since it isn't possible to understand how Christ was both man and God while on earth.  Christ was indeed sinless, but that is different from taking on the sinful body of man.  If Christ didn't have a sinful nature then Satan had no reason to tempt Him because it would be pointless, it was only through His connection with His Father that he was able to resist temptation, the same thing applies to us.  If Christ's earthy body wasn't sinful, then we have to assume that He never got sick (a cold) as a kid growing up because these types of things are a direct result of sin.  Don't misunderstand what I said, Christ was sinless no doubt about it.



Chim,

I don't agree that the Bible must directly say that salvation can be lost, as the wabbit guy said, a better translation is that salvation is a process (verb) that requires continual effort on our parts.  Our relationship is compared in the Bible to marriage, I would hate to assume that everyone who gets divorced really didn't love thier husbands or wives.

As for removing our name from the Book of Life, I will have to do some thinking about that, my first that is that He erases our sins out of the other book so why not?  I tend to think that when we ask for forgiveness the sins are washed away and are never brought up again, even at the judgement (judged by works), if I no longer choose to serve God.

I would tend to agree that a mature Christian with a deep relationship with Christ probably won't ever choose to turn away from God, but what about the new Christians that have just scratched the surface are are children in the Lord?  It often isn't difficult for their faith to be shaken.

[chim]

Welcome NO4X.. I look forward to seeing what you have to say...... but isnt your Ford a 4X   

[NO4X]

If Christ didn't have a sinful nature then Satan had no reason to tempt Him because it would be pointless, it was only through His connection with His Father that he was able to resist temptation, the same thing applies to us.



According to the sermon on the mount, if satan's suggestions tempted Jesus in the least bit, a sin was committed.  But since Jesus was sinless, he was not tempted.  He was tested to prove that he was God.  That is what this word "tempted" means in the greek.

Why does a jeweler test pure gold?  It's to prove it is pure gold.

As for losing your salvation, it is impossible.  If God purchased you, where does it state that He will get a full refund if not completely satisfied?  What satisfies God?  The bible is clear that it is more than we can deliver.

Jonah was full of the Spirit.  He tried to run away from God.  But, because he was God's, he couldn't.  God made sure that Jonah did what he was told to do.  You accepted Christ, you are God's, I dare you to try to ditch him....It can't be done.  Our salvation is not based on our faithfulness...but on God's faithfulness.  There is our security.

[NO4X]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

[*FFC*]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Wow that brings back memories, my parents used to quote that verse alllll the time when I was growin up

[chim]

I don't agree that the Bible must directly say that salvation can be lost, as the wabbit guy said, a better translation is that salvation is a process (verb) that requires continual effort on our parts.  Our relationship is compared in the Bible to marriage, I would hate to assume that everyone who gets divorced really didn't love thier husbands or wives.


Look at a greek lexicon... salvation is not used as a verb. We are compared in the Bible with marriage as Christ being the Groom and we are his bride..... and never once is divorce illustrated in our relationship...  the exact opposite is shown.

As for removing our name from the Book of Life, I will have to do some thinking about that, my first that is that He erases our sins out of the other book so why not?  I tend to think that when we ask for forgiveness the sins are washed away and are never brought up again, even at the judgement (judged by works), if I no longer choose to serve God.

All of our sins have already been covered.. its not recorded and then erased as what you are proposing... what kind of God would we have if it was one we couldnt count on.. . I dont want a God who at any time can take away my salvation if im slipping a bit...

I would tend to agree that a mature Christian with a deep relationship with Christ probably won't ever choose to turn away from God, but what about the new Christians that have just scratched the surface are are children in the Lord?  It often isn't difficult for their faith to be shaken.

New Christian or not, our statis doesnt determine our salvation.

[chim]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

The impact of that verse didnt sink in till after I left the Mormon Church and had to come to the realization that no matter how hard I worked or how hard I didnt work, my salvation was sealed and God loved me just as much either way.

Jonah was full of the Spirit.  He tried to run away from God.  But, because he was God's, he couldn't.  God made sure that Jonah did what he was told to do.  You accepted Christ, you are God's, I dare you to try to ditch him....It can't be done.  Our salvation is not based on our faithfulness...but on God's faithfulness.  There is our security.

Awesome illustration.

[NO4X]

The impact of that verse didnt sink in till after I left the Mormon Church and had to come to the realization that no matter how hard I worked or how hard I didnt work, my salvation was sealed and God loved me just as much either way.

It didn't sink in for me until I was married and had children.  I realized that no matter how bad my kids screw up...they never cease being my children.  I may have to smack them around a bit, but they never lose their position.

And, much like my Father, I can't make them love me.

[waskillywabbit]

Oh well...I'm out.

[lowgeared]

I think he's dead isn't he?

[blackdiamond]

I like to think of salvation (eternal life) like a plate of food on the table.  It is a free gift that will keep me alive, but I have to choose to eat the food and if I stop eating I will starve to death.

[blackdiamond]

(1)We are clearly no longer held to the restrictions of the Law.  Living under the Law is simply not possible.  The atonments and sacrifices made under the Law simply covered over the sins.  Jesus's work on the cross wiped our sins clean.  They are gone forever.

(2) On the topic of working on the Sabbath:
Working on the Sabbath is permissable under Grace.  We are called to worship and recieve God's word.  But that does not mean we have to attend church to do that.  I have been battling with colon cancer for almost three years and due to continual chemo treatments, I can only attend church on a limited basis.  I also belong to a Christian Four Wheel Drive club called 4x4Him.  We plan weekend trips that take us away from our home churches.  While out in God's country, we hold our own service called "Worship in the Wilderness".  We spend time in worship and either have a pastor or other member deliver a message.

(1) Christ's sacrifice freed us from the law of sin and death (the wages of sin is death), not the law (commandments).  Even though we cannot live a perfect sinless life, Christ's blood covers our sins and allows us to be counted righteous.  I am working on a study on this right now, hopefully I will get it finished tomorrow night or during the weekend.

(2) I completely agree that we are not required to attend church on Sabbath.  The purpose of the Sabbath is to worship our Creator so any activity that follows this plan is OK.  God asks us to not do our own work on the Sabbath, we are to spend it with Him.  Personally, I will go 4wheeling on Sabbath, but I generally run the easy trails where my focus can be directed on God, His creations, and family/friends.  I don't go to work on Sabbath (the shipyard that I work in has a standard Monday to Saturday schedule so it is a constant test of my faith), but I have no problem helping people out that are in need.  My wife does, however, work on Sabbath in the medical field where she can help others, but whenever possible she avoids Sabbath being on her schedule.  The proper way to keep the Sabbath is different for everyone, a group of my SDA friends studied this topic for several months and ended up going in similar circles to the topics on this board.  We are held accountable for our convictions from the Holy Spirit.

[NO4X]

I like to think of salvation (eternal life) like a plate of food on the table. It is a free gift that will keep me alive, but I have to choose to eat the food and if I stop eating I will starve to death.

Not at my Lord's table.

Jhn 4:14   But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

I don't have to keep drinking or eating.  ONE TIME!! Then the Holy Spirit(spring of water)  is in me, and I can give that Spirit to someone else, and they only have to drink ONE TIME!  And then the spring of water is in them, and so on, and so on, and so on.

Certainly you know the song "Pass it on".  "It only takes a spark to get a fire going"...  Says nothing about it takes spark after spark after spark. 

[NO4X]

but I guess the topic is what do you think of the Christ.

Jesus is the Christ.  He is God, Jehovah, the Creator, the Heavenly Father manifested in flesh.  Who came here to live a sinless life, in order to die in our place to satisfy the required payment for sin(Jesus didn't sin, so he should not have died)  We can now come into His presence and fellowship with Him, and live out eternity there. 

The payment for sin has been made, so NOBODY has to die, sleep forever, go to hell or whatever you call it.  What we choose, is our destination.

[chim]

Some people say Jesus was Michael the Archangel, or Adam was Michael.. does anyone else think this is true?

[*FFC*]

Some people say Jesus was Michael the Archangel, or Adam was Michael.. does anyone else think this is true?

Nope, but I've heard religions that think it is true... I don't think so though.  Like Matt said earlier, Jesus is the perfect Son of God.  Adam was the first human to walk this earth.  Period.

I mean, thats' sayin that Jesus, Michael, and Adam are one and the same.  Where Jesus is the Perfect Son of God, and Adam fell into sin, so how can that be true??

My 

[chim]

I agree with you Fordfreakchik...   but you would be surprised how many churches teach this and how many people believe this... even the Bible anticipates this.. it warns about false Christs and false Jesus' and that we are to watch out for them,....