Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild

[300k]

     298k.... geezzz...you're a math wizard too!! 


Gnarls. 

well if you look at it as "views per page", you're getting around 2150 views per page. There is a thread also in the Engine section with about half the pages and 20k less views, grabbing 3150 views per page. My thread has a touch under 5000 views with 1 page 

There are more things that go into the equation, but you get the idea. My build page was really 4 or 5 pages at one point so that stat is pretty skewed. saying your build is 'the biggest and baddest' isn't really accurate.

[Gnarly4X]

.... saying your build is 'the biggest and baddest' isn't really accurate.

297k....OMG  .... you're a genius at English Composition also!! 

Read it again..... please.... "My build thread is one of THE most reviewed.... so it must not be too boring, cluttered, or derailed.  :

Gnarls. 

[Gnarly4X]

Back to tech...

Geezz... I just spent about 5 hours compiling an Excel spread sheet comparing exhaust systems on 1986 22RE!!!

I find it VERY interesting!!

I'm debating on whether to publish it or not. 

Gnarls.

[300k]

297k....OMG  .... you're a genius at English Composition also!! 

Read it again..... please.... "My build thread is one of THE most reviewed.... so it must not be too boring, cluttered, or derailed.  :

Gnarls. 

That's still inaccurate. Your 90,000 views is small peanuts to half the build pages on the site.

[Gnarly4X]

That's still inaccurate. Your 90,000 views is small peanuts to half the build pages on the site.

For someone who is so concerned about cluttering up a good tech thread, can you say HYPOCRITE!!... there are more nouns and adjectives I can use to describe your apparent lack of something important to do.

But... then again your posts and contributions to this forum have been practically useless. 

Gnarls. 

[300k]

For someone who is so concerned about cluttering up a good tech thread, can you say HYPOCRITE!!... there are more nouns and adjectives I can use to describe your apparent lack of something important to do.

But... then again your posts and contributions to this forum have been practically useless. 

Gnarls. 

This thread is pretty far gone so I don't have too much regret about posting stuff in it. If I don't have anything to add, I usually refrain from posting which is why I have under 300 posts.

[emsvitil]

Back to tech...

Geezz... I just spent about 5 hours compiling an Excel spread sheet comparing exhaust systems on 1986 22RE!!!

I find it VERY interesting!!

I'm debating on whether to publish it or not. 

Gnarls.

I'd like to see it..........

[Gnarly4X]

I'd like to see it..........

I sent you a PM.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

This thread is pretty far gone so I don't have too much regret about posting stuff in it.
If I don't have anything to add, I usually refrain from posting which is why I have under 300 posts.

So you won't want to clutter up my "far gone" thread??

You only have 300 posts because you spend 99% of your time pooping in the sandbox! 

Gnarls. 

[Gnarly4X]

Here's what I compared in my desktop dyno software (Performance Trends Engine Analyzer v3.4):

It took me about 7 hours to run the numbers and compile the data in an Excel spread sheet.
The torque and HP numbers are from 1000 to 5900 RPMs in 100 RPM increments.

I believe the numbers are very close to actual and fairly close numbers that have been published by various after market suppliers, and other "experts" ..... but that's just my worthless opinion.

Without certified engine dyno test data, the numbers are just speculation, or mathematical calculations, laws of physics, historical test data, and sophisticated software algorithms.

22RE Factory Stock Exhaust Manifold -1.75" Tubing w/Stock Muffler
22RE Factory Stock Exhaust Manifold - 2.0" Tubing w/Turbo Muffler
22RE Factory Stock Exhaust Manifold - 2.25" Tubing w/Turbo Muffler
22RE Stock - with HEADER - Factory 1.75" Tubing and Stock Muffler
22RE Stock - with HEADER - 2.25" Tubing, w/Turbo Muffler
020" Overbore, engnbldr head w/OS valves, 261C Cam, 1.75" Factory Stock Exhaust
020" Overbore, engnbldr head w/OS valves, 261C Cam, Stock Manifold, 2.00" tubing w/Turbo Muffler
020" Overbore, engnbldr head w/OS valves, 261C Cam, Stock Manifold, 2.25" Exhaust w/Turbo Muffler
020" Overbore, engnbldr head w/OS valves, 261C Cam, DT Header, 2.25" tubing w/Turbo Muffler
020" Overbore, engnbldr head w/OS valves, 261C Cam, DT Header, 2.50" tubing w/Turbo Muffler

Gnarls.

[emsvitil]

Here's what I compared in my desktop dyno software:

I took me about 7 hours to run the numbers and compile the data in an Excel spread sheet.
The torque and HP numbers are from 1000 to 5900 RPMs in 100 RPM increments.

I believe the numbers are very close to actual and fairly close numbers that have been published by various after market suppliers, and other "experts" ..... but that's just my worthless opinion.

Without certified engine dyno test data, the numbers are just speculation, or mathematical calculations, laws of physics, historical test data, and sophisticated software algorithms.

22RE Factory Stock Exhaust Manifold -1.75" Tubing w/Stock Muffler
22RE Factory Stock Exhaust Manifold - 2.0" Tubing w/Turbo Muffler
22RE Factory Stock Exhaust Manifold - 2.25" Tubing w/Turbo Muffler
22RE Stock - with HEADER - Factory 1.75" Tubing and Stock Muffler
22RE Stock - with HEADER - 2.25" Tubing, w/Turbo Muffler
020" Overbore, engnbldr head w/OS valves, 261C Cam, 1.75" Factory Stock Exhaust
020" Overbore, engnbldr head w/OS valves, 261C Cam, Stock Manifold, 2.00" tubing w/Turbo Muffler
020" Overbore, engnbldr head w/OS valves, 261C Cam, Stock Manifold, 2.25" Exhaust w/Turbo Muffler
020" Overbore, engnbldr head w/OS valves, 261C Cam, DT Header, 2.25" tubing w/Turbo Muffler
020" Overbore, engnbldr head w/OS valves, 261C Cam, DT Header, 2.50" tubing w/Turbo Muffler

Gnarls.

What numbers?

I don't see any numbers (here     )

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Ed,

Ohhh.... the numbers are confidential... you know... highly classified intellectual property... only seen by the people with Top Secret clearances.

Seeing this data could be leaked to CNN and you know what happens then!!!... It will be ALL FAKE NEWS!! 

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

There are Desktop Dyno haters out there!!!  They are part of the DEEP STATE to expose the Toyota/Russian collusion conspiracy!!

Gnarls. 

[:)bestgen4runner]

All I read was desktop dyno then stopped reading

[Gnarly4X]

All I read was desktop dyno then stopped reading

Hey bgen and Mudder,

Do you have any certified "actual" engine dyno or chassis dyno 22R or 22RE comparison data you'd like to share?

Here's a list of some note worthy people and companies who use Performance Trends software products:

•   Ford Motor Company
•   General Motors
•   GM Racing
•   Chrysler Corporation
•   Honda Motorsports
•   Toyota Racing Development
•   Hendrick Motorsports
•   Labonte Racing
•   Penske Racing
•   Petty Enterprises
•   Everham Motorsports
•   Richard Childress Racing
•   Reher  Morrison
•   Lotus Cars
•   Roush Racing
•   Joe Gibbs Racing
•   Team Amick Motorsports
•   Nissan Motorsports
•   Harley Davidson
•   Ken Duttweiller
•   Competition Cams
•   Motorsports Products Development
•   SuperFlow
•   Kinsler Fuel Injection
•   Gale Banks
•   Dana Corporation
•   Robert Bosch
•   Textron Lycoming
•   Borg Warner
•   Exxon-Mobile
•   Ducati
•   Kawasaki Motors Mfg Corp
•   Cornell Univ Formula SAE (2002 and 2004 winners)
•   Polaris
•   Wegner Motorsports
•   Harley Davidson
•   Crower Cams
•   Haas CNC Racing
•   Chet Herbert Cams
•   Scoggin Dickey Parts Center
•   Moto Guzzi S.p.A. (motorcycles)
•   Wood Brothers Racing
•   Nismo (Nissan Motorsports Japan)
•   Jr Motorsports (Dale Earnhardt Jr)
•   Michael Waltrip Racing
•   Renault F1 Team
•   GM Holden Ltd (Australia)
•   Ford Australia
•   MRD Motorsports (NASCAR)
•   Jon Kasse Racing Engines
•   Siemens Racing Technologies
•   Wiseco Pistons Inc.
•   Cosworth Racing Inc.
•   Braswell Carburetion
•   Mondello Tech Center
•   Honda R/D of Japan
•   Rusty Wallace Racing
•   Roush Yates Engines
•   Swartz Race Cars
•   Edelbrock
•   Automobili Lamborghini S.p.A.
•   Don Schumacher Racing
•   CFE Racing
•   Wilson Manifolds
•   Manley Performance Products
•   Gray Motorsports
•   Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains Ltd
•   Steve Morris Engines
•   BMW
•   Kalitta Motorsports

Tom Payn  2000 NMRA Pure Street Champion and 2000 WFC III Pure Stock Champion  "Engine Analyzer Pro has been a big help in 'dialing in' torque and HP from my engine. I also used Drag Racing Analyzer to help pick gearing and converter stall.  Performance Trends is the best performance analyzing software for the money."

Darin Morgan  Induction Research, Reher & Morrison Racing Engines  "I was able to input the data from our current Pro Stock engine and get within 1% of the actual peak and average power of the engine. I have worked with EVERY piece of software out there dealing with Engine Simulation except yours and I must say I am impressed.   ...your program (Engine Analyzer Pro) is the ONLY software that can adequately model the power curve of a modern Pro Stock engine...this is a really great piece of programming."

Xerxes Surkari, Zex Racing, Toronto Canada  "Being primarily a research and development facility we have a lot of new designs which have to be tested. Performance trends tools like Engine Analyzer Pro, help us to cut our development time substantially by getting us closer to our dynamic goals. Their team is always pushing to stay on the cutting edge of technology to offer us new products. We have been using performance trends tools for  over 15 years now and fully endorse their product."

Joe Allenby-Byrne THROBNOZZLE ENGINEERING LIMITED, Shoreham-by-sea, West Sussex, England  www.throbnozzle-racing.co.uk  In addition to our race winning Ford engines, I used the program (Engine Analyzer Pro) to develop a Rootes group engine earlier this year.  This was done with parts from CP Carrillo and a custom cam from CAT (also designed by Engine Analyzer Pro) in Belgium, along with Andy Cattani's rolling road.  We got a 1725cc 100 BHP engine rebuilt at 1590cc in the smaller capacity class, and 139 BHP. Very happy people all round, its running in a 1958 Hillman Minx saloon car, built another which raced at the Goodwood revival also. It's been a very good investment.

Garth Selig  Repair & Restoration Services, Wetherill Park, NSW Australia   I have installed the program (Engine Analyzer Pro) on my laptop and we are getting very similar figures from your program to the actual engine dyno figures which my staff and clients are impressed with. Your program has helped me get an extra 15hp and 10 ft lbs of torque to date by trying cams, inlet tracks and exhaust setups.

Pete Exton, Exton Precision Engineering, Gold Coast, Australia  The Engine Analyzer Pro was used quite extensively in the development of this Project.  I used many parts of the program in developing this little engine including comparing Turbo compressor maps, ignition timing and tuning, airflow and cam timing, exhaust design.  Last chassis dyno run prior to last weekends race meeting the car produced 740HP at the tyres, from 1.8 litres.  Previous, but a different chassis dyno, figures slightly lower but very similar.  This Isuzu YEP8S TG Gemini with 3 speed Trimatic and factory torque tube diff. is running in the 8s.

What do YOU know about "desktop dyno" software that they do not? 

Gnarls.

[emsvitil]

"Desktop Dyno"  makes one think of the cheap version I have.............

Currently about $55



mines older than this.  (DD2003)

These are "toys"


Sounds like you have a real program.    That's why I've been bugging you.    I'm trying to figure out how to tweak my DD2003 to get closer to your figures (and real dyno runs (although not with 22R engines))     

The key for DD2003 is the camshaft specs.    Published specs are crap................    Once you're comparing apples to apples with camshafts, it starts to make some sense.


So call it something other than "Desktop Dyno"

[Mudder]

I liked bestgens post because I found it amusing. A computerised dyno is better than nothing imo. I personally have no interests in the 22re as a DD engine, I just enjoy reading what gets posted here.

[Gnarly4X]

...Sounds like you have a real program. 

Hey Ed,

Programming and selecting the data, specs, measurements, and list of options for any given engine is time consuming. The EA program is very sophisticated and has lots of parameters, specs, and calculations that it can analyze and report on with very slight changes.

But, of course, it is virtual.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

UPDATE:  1-29-2018 AM

I had two unexpected home repairs to fix yesterday, so I did not get under my truck as planned. 

I'm shooting for Wednesday to get my new DT header hooked up, so I can get the truck to the muffler shop next week. 

I've been sent some very interesting flow bench data on the 22RE head from a well-known and very generous engine technoid, so I'm going to plug in some new data and do some more virtual mock pulls on my EA software. 

This new flow bench data will change the comparison results I just did for my exhaust upgrade.

Gnarls 

[H8PVMNT]

SO what exhaust are you going to use?

[Gnarly4X]

SO what exhaust are you going to use?

Right now it's DT header, 2.25" exhaust tubing, no cat, MagnaFlow 18" muffler.

Gnarls.

[300k]

Right now it's DT header, 2.25" exhaust tubing, no cat, MagnaFlow 18" muffler.

Gnarls.

NO CAT? THINK OF THE CHILDREN! I CAN'T BREATHE!

[blackdiamond]

NO CAT? THINK OF THE CHILDREN! I CAN'T BREATHE!

Don't encourage him...

[300k]

Don't encourage him...

"u need that cat for mad back pressure bro, i saw it on a online form"

[Gnarly4X]

"u need that cat for mad back pressure bro, i saw it on a online form"

    I'm leaving your useless and "clutter-up-someone-else's-thread" posts to demonstrate your histrionic (Google it) personality disorder. 

Gnarls. 

[OVRAROK]

Right now it's DT header, 2.25" exhaust tubing, no cat, MagnaFlow 18" muffler.

Gnarls.

Hey gnarls, is the exhaust pipe press bent, or mandrel bent

[Mudder]

Don't encourage him...

Back in my day gramps used to heat the house with his truck exhaust. It had no cats and I'm doing just fine. You don't need 'em as well because it messed up the voleciry by 10%.

That's what comes to mind for some reason.

[H8PVMNT]

Mergubenish.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey gnarls, is the exhaust pipe press bent, or mandrel bent

Hey O,

The pipe that is in there now is mandrel bent, I assume its stock. The tubing going in will be compression bent, unless I change my mind.

Gnarls.

[Gnarly4X]

Mergubenish.

That's Montana-ese for "Don't mean didley"...

Gnarls.