Topic: 46&2's 85 4Runner Build-Up

[Volcom]

You should have just ordered 2 aussies    Once you drive with lockers F&R, you'll never go back 

[THK Matt]

Yeah I am pretty pumped about it, just going with one in the rear for now I dont feel that I need a front locker yet. Just got done with my skid plate, so now I gotta run to town, get some grease and gear oil, and pick up my (soon to be) half doors. Then I gotta change my oil and get started on my axles, not sure if i will get done tonight, might start that tomorrow and finish the doors tonight.

OH GOODIES!

get on it bro. take lots of pics.

[46&2 [OP]]

You should have just ordered 2 aussies    Once you drive with lockers F&R, you'll never go back 

Yeah I thought about it, but I'd rather run a selectable locker up front. I don't want to do hydro and I don't have longs yet. I feel pretty confident in just wheeling with an open front and locked rear for now. eventually though.....

OH GOODIES!

get on it bro. take lots of pics.

Well I had a slight change of plans. I decided I didn't want to rush right at the last moment (two days to break down two axles and one third member, on top of half doors and a bunch of other misc maintenance, so I went to my buddy's shop (had to go there to get my doors anyway) to see if he had any spare 5.29 thirds. Turns out he had a 5.29 carrier laying around. So we decided to weld my v6 rear, run that to fordyce, then when I get back I will break it all down so I can take my time and not rush. I will put the open 5.29 carrier in my v6, put my v6 in the front and install my aussie into the front third, which is going in the rear. if that makes any sense 

[Doof]

run the locker where you want. but here is my take on it

with a locker in the rear and open in the front is kind of a waste. there is no weight in the rear and when your crawling up something and you get your tire in that perfect groove or up over the rock you kinda expect your front to pull you a little since thats where the most weight is. but since its not locked, you only have one tire and more than half the time its not enough. my buddy clownman is locked in the front and open rear with 4.10's and he killed fordyce. most of the spots we were in you had to have a front locker to pull. i would put the selectable in the rear so your not running around town with your rear (aussie) locked full time. which it is until a turn. but why get a locker for crawling and not put it to full locking potential?  so all in all, aussie up front and keep the rear open or welded.

[Jud]

run the locker where you want. but here is my take on it

with a locker in the rear and open in the front is kind of a waste. there is no weight in the rear and when your crawling up something and you get your tire in that perfect groove or up over the rock you kinda expect your front to pull you a little since thats where the most weight is. but since its not locked, you only have one tire and more than half the time its not enough. my buddy clownman is locked in the front and open rear with 4.10's and he killed fordyce. most of the spots we were in you had to have a front locker to pull. i would put the selectable in the rear so your not running around town with your rear (aussie) locked full time. which it is until a turn. but why get a locker for crawling and not put it to full locking potential?  so all in all, aussie up front and keep the rear open or welded.

I think the opposite. Since the rear end is lighter physically you will lift the rear tires easier. The front is heavier so they will physically get more traction. I think having a locker in the rear is more logical because of the rear end being lighter. Plus you wont have to worry about breaking birfs as much.

[THK Matt]

I think the opposite. Since the rear end is lighter physically you will lift the rear tires easier. The front is heavier so they will physically get more traction. I think having a locker in the rear is more logical because of the rear end being lighter. Plus you wont have to worry about breaking birfs as much.

i agree with the both you....

the front option as far as street driving goes.... but when you have a truck..... the rear is hella light... so the rear is more practical...
but with a 4runner your rearend is ass heavy.. so really to me its more personal preference... i have more problem with my rear getting traction.

[46&2 [OP]]

run the locker where you want. but here is my take on it

with a locker in the rear and open in the front is kind of a waste. there is no weight in the rear and when your crawling up something and you get your tire in that perfect groove or up over the rock you kinda expect your front to pull you a little since thats where the most weight is. but since its not locked, you only have one tire and more than half the time its not enough. my buddy clownman is locked in the front and open rear with 4.10's and he killed fordyce. most of the spots we were in you had to have a front locker to pull. i would put the selectable in the rear so your not running around town with your rear (aussie) locked full time. which it is until a turn. but why get a locker for crawling and not put it to full locking potential?  so all in all, aussie up front and keep the rear open or welded.

I understand what you are saying and it does make some sense. I do however, dissagree  

My reasoning is based on my past experience with this 4runner and the experience of many of my friends. When I got it, it had a limited slip in the rear, open front. Only until I ditched my rear axle and limited slip for a 89 rear axle that was open did I realize just how much that limited slip in the back helped out. After ditching the limited slip, my truck felt useless. Even with dual cases and aired down I knew i just wasnt getting the traction I used to get. After rolling for about a year with duals, 35s and open/open, my truck felt almost as capable as before with just 4.7s, 32s and a rear limited slip. I never realized how useful the LS was. After watching several of my friends cruise fordyce and rubicon no problem with nothing more than big tires and a rear locker, I knew that the best combo is open front, locked rear. This minimizes stress on the front axle, makes steering comfortable w/o hydro, gives you plenty of "pushing" power, and allows for the lighter rear to keep on going even if I hang a tire. My buddy Wade cruised with 37s, duals, and a spool in the rear for almost 5 years. He ran fordyce over half a dozen times and never got a front locker until he had the extra cash. Even now, he won't engage his front ARB unless he really gets himself into a hairy situation. I feel the same way, I think with my duals, 5.29s and a rear locker I will be more than capable for what I plan to wheel. I also do NOT want a full time front locker because my house gets anywhere between 2-5 feet of snow each winter and that would just suck with full time lockers F&R. I have three days until I hit the trail, so I will let you know how it goes, though I think it will be tits. I have a feeling though that keeping an open front and a locked rear will be the perfect combo for my truck. Ideally I would have ARBs F&R but thats just too much for my wallet to handle. Not to mention, my front bumper and winch weigh a good amount, so that helps add to the weight in the front that will help keep those front two tires connected to the ground. I have never had any problem with spinning the steering wheel like a madman, so far its never let me down

I think the opposite. Since the rear end is lighter physically you will lift the rear tires easier. The front is heavier so they will physically get more traction. I think having a locker in the rear is more logical because of the rear end being lighter. Plus you wont have to worry about breaking birfs as much.

I agree.  

[46&2 [OP]]

Here are some pics from this morning, going to rock the welded until I have some quality time to spend rebuilding my front and rear axles. I found out my rear wheel bearings are just about toast so once I get back the front is getting a full rebuild as well as the rear.


Pulled the third...



Tore the third apart...



Welded up the spiders...




Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics. Here are the doors I picked up, I started pulling them apart tonight and I hope to have them at least close to finished by tomorrow:

[-Matt-]

as far as i personally feel, pullin up hills is way more effective than pushing. usually if u have a locker in the front u can crawl up anything thats doable and once u get up u can get it good to get ur as-s end back up but vise versa is a lot more difficult. but as far as birf breakage goes very true but with tire pull id rather have a locker thats in an end that usually both tire stay on the ground guaranteeing at least 2 tires that are probably 99% on the ground. seems to me like if in a sketch situation where your rear tires pretty pulled then there gonna be little to no pressure on one of your front tires, in that case you'd have mainly one wheel drive couse just one of your front tires would spin. and there isnt really an opposite of that since the front so much heavier if your front tires pulled usually its couse your going up an intense hill and there will be enough force in the rear to keep one tire spinning... haha if any of that makes sense  we need some experience from someone who's spent a reasonable amount of time in both situations.

[46&2 [OP]]

Yeah I understand where both sillywilly and clownman are coming from. One thing you have to remember is I have dual ultimates, and that makes a world of difference in terms of traction. IMO, duals and a rear locker are MORE than adequate. Like I said, I will let you know how this weekend goes. The extra help from the duals makes for an entirely different experience on the trail. The duals themselves almost made up for the lack of a rear limited slip, almost. its amazing how much they help. the difference is night and day. Without duals or case gears I can see how the front locker could make it much more advantageous.

[Doof]

i fully see what your saying... all a matter of personal pref...

i forgot you lived in GV and it gets snowy, so having a front selectable would be practical for that reason... stoked to see your pics when you get back

[46&2 [OP]]

i fully see what your saying... all a matter of personal pref...

i forgot you lived in GV and it gets snowy, so having a front selectable would be practical for that reason... stoked to see your pics when you get back

Yeah, I actually prefer open/open for snow wheeling it makes hauling ass down roads with 2 feet of snow on them much easier

[Jud]

Another thing I forgot about the locker debate is in the front you can turn/move your tire placement a lot easier then the rear tires. If you need all 4 tires to get traction being open front you can steer your tires into say a wedge or something so they both get equal amounts of traction. Whereas sometimes you just can't do anything about where your rear tires go. If you've ever wheeled open open then you understand what i am saying about tire placement.

[NorCalToy]

Yeah, I actually prefer open/open for snow wheeling it makes hauling ass down roads with 2 feet of snow on them much easier

eh?

[46&2 [OP]]

Another thing I forgot about the locker debate is in the front you can turn/move your tire placement a lot easier then the rear tires. If you need all 4 tires to get traction being open front you can steer your tires into say a wedge or something so they both get equal amounts of traction. Whereas sometimes you just can't do anything about where your rear tires go. If you've ever wheeled open open then you understand what i am saying about tire placement.

Yeah, I have been doing it for the last year, I know exactly what you are talking about. That has been the only thing keeping me going ,when you essentially have two wheel drive (1 front, 1 rear) tire placement is very key.

[46&2 [OP]]

eh?

I like blasting down abandoned roads (my whole town freaks when it snows) going 50 mph, 4 High. my locked up friends can still haul ass but being open/open makes it a lot easier I think.

[Jud]

Yeah, I have been doing it for the last year, I know exactly what you are talking about. That has been the only thing keeping me going ,when you essentially have two wheel drive (1 front, 1 rear) tire placement is very key.

Yeap. I think it was kinda fun being open. More of a challenge!

[46&2 [OP]]

Yeap. I think it was kinda fun being open. More of a challenge!

Haha it is for a while but then it starts to get old when you have to take the same line because you know you can't get the traction you need on other lines. I am looking forward to fordyce with the welded rear end, I actually got bored of wheeling open difs so I am glad I changed things up.

[NorCalToy]

I like blasting down abandoned roads (my whole town freaks when it snows) going 50 mph, 4 High. my locked up friends can still haul ass but being open/open makes it a lot easier I think.

hows it easier without locked upness? i guess maybe the not slide so gnarly burnout all the time way that a locked rear makes you do...


also my opinion on the locker thing: i was always told if you only have one set of chains you chain the front so it pulls, i personally would apply the same concept to a single locker. although i can fully understand either situation.

[46&2 [OP]]

hows it easier without locked upness? i guess maybe the not slide so gnarly burnout all the time way that a locked rear makes you do...


also my opinion on the locker thing: i was always told if you only have one set of chains you chain the front so it pulls, i personally would apply the same concept to a single locker. although i can fully understand either situation.

Well I havn't driven a fully locked in the rear truck in the snow, so I am not 100% on this but my friends tell me having a spool/welded rear end in the snow tends to cause the rear end to slide out more where as with open each tire can spin when it needs to so you can haul ass without worrying about your rear suddenly pitching sideways. Next winter I will get back to you on that though

This past winter I could go about 55 mph on snowy roads and maintain perfect traction, but none of my rear locked friends would go over 35-40 mph.

[86turboyota]

This past winter I could go about 55 mph on snowy roads and maintain perfect traction, but none of my rear locked friends would go over 35-40 mph.

i think id my pants if i did 55 in the snow with my rear locked 4runner.

[46&2 [OP]]

i think id my pants if i did 55 in the snow with my rear locked 4runner.

ahaha my point exactly

[THK Matt]

ahaha my point exactly

 i go 45-50 in snow.. open/open... its a rush in a half.... although not something i wana do all  the time.
ESPECIALLY if there is ice under it.... SCREW THAT!

[46&2 [OP]]

i go 45-50 in snow.. open/open... its a rush in a half.... although not something i wana do all  the time.
ESPECIALLY if there is ice under it.... SCREW THAT!

Yeah I am talking fresh - day or two old powder. with my tires aired down to about 10 psi i could do 50-55 on straight aways no problem

[Doof]

that pic you PM'ed me is classic

i would rock that so fast and hope to get pulled over and have the cop see that

[bigarms23]

i know that in snow on the streets with a detroit the rear end wants to slide more than an open diff but you can get over the slide by shifting up a gear

[46&2 [OP]]

that pic you PM'ed me is classic

i would rock that so fast and hope to get pulled over and have the cop see that

haha yeah

"No officer thats how the tire came from the factory"

[46&2 [OP]]

We were supposed to leave this morning for Fordyce. After almost a week of everyone in the group pushing all nighters to get their rigs done, I was the only one ready to go this morning. 

Been helping my friend Wade all day he worked his ass off but I helped when I could. We did everything imaginable, from trimming the out of his bed to clear the 40s, putting on some lower link bumpstops, reinforced the new front spring hanger, new dif breathers, then a power steering issue, finished welding on his 3 link panhard, reiforced some other areas of the 3 link....and then when I left, he found out he had a sheared steering stud so he had to replace that on top of going through and torquing everything down. I am all packed though and ready to roll out though so I am looking forward to hitting Fordyce for the first time.... we head out around 7:00 AM

[Jud]

Damn that sucks. You guys stayin through Moneday or what?

[46&2 [OP]]

Probably gonna come back sunday night. my girlfriend has school on monday. oh well