Topic: The Official 3RZ Knowledge and Database Thread

[BigMike]

My brain is now smoking...   

Slow down buddy

I did put in an extra ground from the head to the fender well a while back and it made no difference.

On the MAF, originally I had a Toyota one, then I replaced it with a remaned one and it ran better but still has issues.  With the stick MAF it was beginning to dog out at like 2800 rpm, the remaned one I can get 3500+/- before it dogs out.  My parts guy ordered me up another one to test and still no difference......

Ok, it's great you've got those grounds. Next, do you have the proper ECU for this engine? I mean the exact matching ECU that came with that harness and all equipment/sensors? When I was trouble shooting my lean-out issue when I had a TRD Supercharger installed onto my 1995 T100 3RZ-FE, I tried a 1995 Tacoma ECU and also a 1996 4Runner ECU and they ran HORRIBLY. The 4Runner ECU wouldn't even idle, yet they were all single coil 3RZ-FE ECUs. So I know there is a big difference if you start mix matching components across platforms.

Next, I would suggest the following: With the engine off, switch the key in the ON position and double check you've got the proper ground and proper Hot signal at every sensor related to the engine. I didn't wire the temp sensor in correctly on Bevin's quad coil 3RZ-FE initially and it kept throwing random codes and we couldn't figure it out (at the time I only had experience with single coil versions which have a separate temp sensor at the air box, rather than integrated with the MAF sensor). Then his Optima would drain completely dead within 3 days of not driving, and that is when I discovered that I had accidentally wired the power for his temp sensor over to a vacuum solenoid that would stay on 24/7. It never threw an error code for the missing temp sensor but once I got it connected properly it ran smoother.

Make sure you have the proper MAF sensor for your ECU. Early MAFs do not have an integrated temp sensor, later models do.

So I'd recommend something along the lines of remove the plug from the MAF and make sure it's ground and +Vdd signals are good, then reconnect the plug. Then do the same for your coil pack, and your igniter, and your TPS, and your ICV, and everything else. Cross reference them all with your Toyota wiring diagram and make sure that they are present where ever you should have +Vdd and -Vcc when the key is ON.

Took a drive just now with the scan tool.  Long term fuel trim is like 15-17% at idle and from 25% to 37% while getting on it.
...
Is it possible with that cone I am just getting too much air for the ECU to compensate for?
...
I know the turbo/tuner set uses RX7 injectors that are a direct fit but like 440cc.  Should I consider this route?

HOLY MOLY. Maybe the ECU doesn't like the signal coming from your MAF, because one of the other is not the right application or is bad. Sounds like so much fuel is being added that it hits fuel cut prematurely (your ~3500 rpm limit). Don't run any other injector but 3RZ-FE injectors original to your engine. Get it running properly first before you start monkeying around.

Maybe I have a nasty injector?

It's possible and this is very easy to check. Here is a picture of my Iridum plugs from my Supercharged MR2. I pulled them out last year before I smogged my car just to see how the condition of the engine was. In this picture they have about 45k miles and look to be in great shape:


All of your plugs must have the same color to them. If you search Google Images for "spark plug color guide" you'll find a bunch of guides, such as...


or...


If you have one injector that leaks then you'll have 1 plug that is fouled out (much darker than the rest with a lot of carbon build-up), or if you have one injector that doesn't flow well then you'll have 1 plug that looks clean and the other three will be noticeably darker

Let's get this fixed one thing at a time

Regards,
BigMike

[BigMike [OP]]

Also, how smooth is your idle and have you ever ran a compression check?

[H8PVMNT]

I think I have the ECU that came out of the doner '98 4Runner.  Some of it was all boxed up though and some stuff I striped right from the doner so I could be mistaken on the ECU.  Is there any way to confirm what ECU # should be in this setup if I know everything else is '98 4Runner, manual trans etc?

I do have a buddy with a '98 3RZ Tacoma, maybe I could steal his ECU for a bit...

[H8PVMNT]

Also, how smooth is your idle and have you ever ran a compression check?

Idle has always been nice and smooth.  I haven't done a compression check though.

[BigMike [OP]]

Does your OBD-II scanner report a VIN? If so cross reference the year using that.


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[H8PVMNT]

I will check on that tomorrow.  Thanks for the help, I m determined to get to the bottom of this...

Another note worthy fact...  This thing ran great when I first set it up for something like 5,000 miles, then it started getting this glitch intermittently in the middle of a big road/wheeling trip to the coast and back we did in 2012, then over the last year or so it became a permanent thing.

During that trip we replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter and the fuel pressure regulator which all made no difference.

[BigMike [OP]]

Electrical water damage?

[H8PVMNT]

We never put it in any substantial water that trip.  I am going to swap out my buddies ECU when I get a chance, it's a free diagnosis and his Tacoma is the same year as my '98 3RZ stuff.  If it doesn't work I can at least rule out a bad or wrong ECU, if it does I guess I'll be shopping.  Have any laying around of that vintage?

Oh and the scan tool won't find a vin...

[H8PVMNT]

Hey, thanks for helping me get a plan figured out. I really appreciate it.  I hope this will be valuable information when I get it figured out.  If I search around I can find lots of similar issues with 3RZs lagging like this but it seems like almost no one ever posts up what their problem actually was. They just fix it and leave everyone wondering.

 

[BigMike [OP]]

Sounds good In the meantime pull your plugs to check their condition and also check your fuel pressure - despite replacing your pump & filter - so we can rule that out too.


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[Carolina82]

Anyone done this swap on the east coast? Preferably NC/SC?

[H8PVMNT]

Started a new job as the dreaded tax assessor so I haven't had time to do anything.  I will pull those plugs soon...

[Nation]

 :bull crap:

Started a new job as the dreaded tax assessor so I haven't had time to do anything.  I will pull those plugs soon...

Keep us posted. Congrats on the new job

[a_cent11]

Has anyone tried any paradise racing products? I know they specialize in the 2rz/3rz and have ran faster than 7 second 1/4s. Thinking about making it a long term objective

https://paradiseracing.com

[JFW]

I really want to do this swap, but I'm having a hell of a time tracking down a motor. Much less a motor with everything required and from a manual vehicle. Anyone have any suggestions?

[HogCanyonHopper]

keep looking and when you think you're going to give up...look some more 

[Nation]

Took me months to find mine.

[JFW]

I was afraid that would be the answer I got. Lol thanks guys.

[BigMike [OP]]

I really want to do this swap, but I'm having a hell of a time tracking down a motor. Much less a motor with everything required and from a manual vehicle. Anyone have any suggestions?

You could try searching http://www.car-parts.com for a 3RZ (ie. search for a 1996-Toyota Tacoma-Engine, etc) and sort through the search results, starting with the cheaper listings, for any wrecking yards that are within driving range. Then I'd call each yard, one by one, and ask such questions as, "what is the history on the donor vehicle?" "was it involved in a head-on collision?" "how long has it sat on your yard?", and if the responses sound good then ask if they 1) have the complete engine still and 2) can you make me a deal on the engine and everything else I need for a swap?

Might get lucky at the expense of a few dozen phone calls and an hour of your time

Regards,
BigMike

[JFW]

Ok, I will definitely give that a shot. Thanks BigMike!

[JFW]

Hey BigMike. I'm here in Fresno. Do you guys ever do these swaps for people? What would a service like that cost? Just wondering.  Thanks again for the input.

[JFW]

Orrrr.....you could give a 2TR swap a go? Looking at car-parts.com, they're actually slightly cheaper than the 3rz's. Weird. No idea if it would be cheaper overall for everything needed though. Probably not because I don't think my W56 would mate to a 2TR in any way.

[BigMike [OP]]

Hey BigMike. I'm here in Fresno. Do you guys ever do these swaps for people? What would a service like that cost? Just wondering.  Thanks again for the input.

Oh nice! Here in Freshyes! We have the ability to do full swaps but it is currently not part of our business, so we do not offer it as a service. I HIGHLY recommend calling Jeff at ToyConnection4x4. They are in Santa Clara (right next to the San Jose Airport) and do complete turn-key swaps of pretty much anything: Carbureted to EFI, to Turbo, to 2/3RZs, to 3/5VZs, probably even 2UZ 4.7-liter Tundra V8 swaps. It is a big commitment and a lot of work for a business to do this, so don't expect it to be at the price you neighbor would do working from his backyard car cover every night. I'm pretty sure the swaps are in the $6 to $8,000 range and include full C.A.R.B. smog-legal certification. Seriously turn-key.

ToyConnection's phone number is (408) 988-4040, here is their listing on Yelp: http://www.yelp.com/biz/toy-connection-santa-clara. We have known Jeff for almost a decade and go wheeling with him and his employees every year. They are a Toyota 4WD only wrecking yard and are guaranteed to have any part you need including complete engines with all needed conversion parts -- but THEY DO NOT SHIP ANYTHING. So you MUST drive over there and purchase stuff in person / or drop your truck off and have a ride back home.

Best of luck and if you do give Jeff a call, let me know how it goes, thanks!

Regards,
BigMike

[BigMike [OP]]

Orrrr.....you could give a 2TR swap a go? Looking at car-parts.com, they're actually slightly cheaper than the 3rz's. Weird. No idea if it would be cheaper overall for everything needed though. Probably not because I don't think my W56 would mate to a 2TR in any way.

Might be cheaper because it has not caught on yet. When I bought my 3RZ back in 2004 with everything including Catalytic converter, flywheel, clutch, complete engine and interior wiring harnesses, all engine parts, all ECU, all sensors, etc, it only cost me $400. Seriously. For everything. Today you'd be lucky to find just a good low mileage engine for around $650.

One thing to note about the 2TR, while it is better in terms of torque and efficiency, it will be much, much more difficult to get smog-approved than compared to a single-coil 1995-1997 3RZ. You are right about your W56, that will have to be replaced with (ideally) a R151F (which are like gold, selling for ~$800 if you can even find one [their bellhousings alone sell for ~$400]), or (less ideally) a R150F (which can be had for ~$150 -- but you'll also need a $350 adapter kit to use your gear drive t/case = ~$500). Then, you'd have to upgrade at least your front Crawl Box (or t/case if you've only got a single setup) to a 23-spline input, so that's another $200.

But aside from all that, it's the emissions and stuff related to your fuel tank that is going to give you the most amount of headaches between a 2TR and the state of Commiefornia Even though it is an indisputable fact that the 2TR-FE will have less pollution than whatever you have now, you will have to jump through so many bureaucratic control-hoops that you wouldn't have to worry about with a single-coil 3RZ-FE.

If I may ramble a bit here, the quad coil 2TR-FE will not integrate with your single-coil tachometer. It's purge canister does not integrate with your factory purge canister mount (the single-coil 3RZ-FE's purge canister is compatible with even a 1979 carbureted 20R's purge canister mount), the dual and quad coil newer engines have two cats instead of just one like the single-coil 3RZ-FE, and you will have so many more electronic solenoids in comparison to the more simple single-coil 3RZ-FE ... it will just be a lot more work to get it to pass the referee.

The 2TR-FE is doable, much more so outside of California, just make sure you are up to the extra challenges associated with it. The end payoff will be sweet VVT-i in a Hilux Rock Crawler. That is pretty cool!!

Regards,
BigMike

[JFW]

Right on, just thought I'd ask. A turn-key swap would be awesome, but definitely out of my budget for the foreseeable future. Guess I'll just have to get friendly with some wiring. Maybe find someone local to give me a hand here and there. That is, once I find a motor, etc. lol Thanks for the info, again! I'd definitely like to check that place out though, just for parts scrounging.

Ok, 3RZ it is then!

[old runner]

I found mine, which has yet to be swapped, by accident. The owner had misspelled Tacoma as Tatoma and never corrected it. It is a rolled 2000 prerunner with 42k on the engine and 2k on the auto. It had been sitting for quite awhile and I picked it up for $450. I wasn't really looking but picked it up anyways, it was too good to turn down. The deals are out there, just keep looking and don't be afraid to turn auto correct off with your searches.

[JFW]

Holy crap! Some people have ALL the luck! That's awesome.

I didn't see it, but maybe I missed it....do I need the a/c system from the donor truck as well? Even if I don't need it, can it be swapped?

[BigMike [OP]]

An awesome 3RZ comment was just posted to one of Marlin's Facebook album pictures, had to share!

Link: https://www.facebook.com/huusoku/posts/10152032393478342

[Capt. Crawler]

OK so I got my engine issue resolved, it was a plugged fuel line. I know that the three RZ sits at 10 degrees at the valve cover off level ,but is it normal for the transmission and transfer case to sit at an angle?

[BigMike [OP]]

OK so I got my engine issue resolved, it was a plugged fuel line. I know that the three RZ sits at 10 degrees at the valve cover off level ,but is it normal for the transmission and transfer case to sit at an angle?

Glad you got the engine issue figured out. It's about bloody time! As for the angle of the transmission, no. If you remove the shift handle and place a level atop the shifter base, it should read 0-degrees.

There are two easy features to identify on the engine itself to determine if it's level:
1. The Power Steering reservoir stands straight up. Remove the reservoir cap and place a level across the opening. It should read 0-degrees.
2. The throttle body is horizontal. The intake manifold is designed to compensate for the off-tilt of the cylinder head while keeping the throttle body level at 0-degrees. I'm not sure if the flat section atop the intake manifold just after the throttle body flange is level, but the throttle body is.

Slapping your level across the rim of the opening of your power steering reservoir is the simplest way to check for proper engine alignment. A quick glance-over to make sure the reservoir isn't bent or damaged would be a good idea also as I've seen engines pulled from wrecked donors where the reservoir got slightly bent from some front end collision. You could even place your level 90-degrees off (parallel with your frame rails) to check if your cross member mount is too high or too low. I imagine there is some tilt from forward-to-back even on a stock 22R. Wouldn't be a bad idea to compare this measurement with another vehicle if you have access to one.

Regards,
BigMike