Topic: The Official 3RZ Knowledge and Database Thread

[3toys]

As far as I have been able to gather, there isn't anything specifically stated on the engine itself.  You may find something on a wire section label or an engine barcode label.  But they're not very common.  Best bet is possibly spark plug wires if they're OE.  They usually are stamped with a production year. 

In regards to wire color codes, there were slight differences in colors of wires versus the EWD manuals.  But that's the way it is with a lot of vehicles.  It may say green on the diagram but it will turn out to be yellow in your engine harness.  That's why I find the source and the termination before I label it.  I triple check the harness
PIN and where it goes.  The EWD is an awesome resource, but beware of possible color changes on your harness.

I guess it comes from running out of a color on a spool, hurrying up and adding a few feet of whatever color to finish that harness and ship it....

[H8PVMNT]

I agree, I had some greys that were suposed to be blues, yellow and red that was suposed to be red and black etc.  In the end you just kind of figure it out with testing.  Sounds hard but it's pretty simple if you take it one wire at a time.  The important stuff is kind of obvious if you have it hooked to juice and you use a tester to see what is hot and when.

There is probably not a ton of variation in colors from 98-2000. I did most of mine with haynes manual diagrams and a few PDFs sent by nice guys on this forum with factory service manuals.

[Capt. Crawler]

Told that tps is vin. Specific to ecm? Could this be true? Check out my video. https://www.youtube.com/user/2june2km?feature=c4-feed-u.

[87toycrawlersbc]

Ok thanks I had been over it w a fine tooth comb and couldn't find a thing I'll check the spark plug wires that's one thing I didn't think of I ran coil pack numbers sensor numbers numbers off the intake and sometimes the sensors are year specific but I had no luck w that. The only thing that kinda stuck out to me was the boot where the engine harness goes through the fire wall and looks most like a 99. The story on it is a man I work with has a 96 tacoma he bought the engine from a Toyota junk yard here close to where we live. It set in his basement for 10 years because when he bought it he didn't know about 1st gen and 2cnd gen differences didn't want to swap heads and all so I bought it last year. The motor was out of a wreck it has a front sump pan and (supposedly) has only 15k on it so I may have a good one or might have been fed a bunch of bull! I figure $500 wasn't to bad for a complete 3rz either way still has the clutch and flywheel on it the only thing I didn't get was the ecu and dash harness because when he bought it he was thinking he didn't need it he thought it would swap right into his plug and play. I do appreciate the help I'm sure I'll ask something else before long!

[85inprogress]

Is the swap for the 2rz basically the same as the 3rz. This may have been asked but I've read about ever post in this thread. Thanks.

[yotachump]

I don't know if I read over it and couldn't find it upon searching, but is there anyway to delete the VPS (vapor pressure sensor) itself? Not the VSV but the sensor itself, the one with three wires coming out of it.

[boggerunner]

ive been running my 3rz for a few yrs now and all of a sudden it wont start. does fire up and runs fine on ether.  I unplugged the coolant temp sensor on the back of the head and it fires right up, I replaced the sensor with a new one and it wont start with it plugged in, what is my issue here?

[MUD000]

Hi guys I have a friend who is putting a turbo 3rz into his 96 Hilux replacing the old 22r but would like an auto what is the best option for the job he will be also looking at dual cases as we'll look forward to hearing feedback cheers from Australia Dan

[Capt. Crawler]

 Hey Boggerunner, Ever get your rig running?
 What was the problem? Been following you here for awhile.

[boggerunner]

I got a new sensor and it ran fine till my red top optima died and its been sittin in the driveway dead for a month now

[Lone Crawler]

Ok Guys,
So I've had my 3RZ installed for over 6 months now and I LOVE IT. The only thing I need to fix is the cel for the vss input to the ecu. I thought I hooked up the vss wire from the cluster, but still have a code. Has anyone found or tried to run an adapter off the speedo gear at the t case to run a cable and marlins speedo sensor?  I'm going to tear into my dash and check my wiring to make sure it's right, but was just curious on an adapter.

[H8PVMNT]

I have been living with a bad MAF sensor for about the last year.  The engine ran OK but would fall on it's face completely at wide open throttle and hesitated and huffed out around 3200-3500 rpms.  Sometimes the last month or so it would even fall flat at 2800, so I finaly replaced it.  Wow what a difference being able to use the upper rpms!  The drivability was fine unless you were pulling passes or towing where you really wanted to downshift. Now I can get all the rpms I want.

On wide open throttle though, like if I stab the gas to the floor it will still hesitate.  If I ease into it it's fine, just at quick WOT if feels like not enough fuel or something.

Has anybody else expereinced this?  I did a pretty good port and polish and I have a open air filter.  Could I be getting too much air?  Would oversized injectors help, or maybe a stock filterbox?

It's really fine since it actually revs now, but now that I have a baseline I feel like I can tune it a little...

[BigMike [OP]]

I thought I hooked up the vss wire from the cluster, but still have a code.

If you have a OBD-II scan tool, then you can verify straight away if you have a signal or not by monitoring the speed display of the scan tool while you drive. It's possible you have a bad speedometer unit (your Hilux unit). All Hilux trucks/4Runners, including even a 1979 carbureted 1st gen, have a built-in VSS in the instrument cluster. You will notice a performance gain once you get a working speed signal because the ECU's windchill calculation takes into consideration the speed of the vehicle.

I have been living with a bad MAF sensor for about the last year.  The engine ran OK but would fall on it's face completely at wide open throttle and hesitated and huffed out around 3200-3500 rpms.  Sometimes the last month or so it would even fall flat at 2800, so I finaly replaced it.  Wow what a difference being able to use the upper rpms!  The drivability was fine unless you were pulling passes or towing where you really wanted to downshift. Now I can get all the rpms I want.

On wide open throttle though, like if I stab the gas to the floor it will still hesitate.  If I ease into it it's fine, just at quick WOT if feels like not enough fuel or something.

Has anybody else expereinced this?  I did a pretty good port and polish and I have a open air filter.  Could I be getting too much air?  Would oversized injectors help, or maybe a stock filterbox?

It's really fine since it actually revs now, but now that I have a baseline I feel like I can tune it a little...

My 3RZ came to me with a cracked MAF and I put in a few weeks of daily driving with it until I replaced it and YES huge difference with a working one. One thing that you need to do is reset your computer as it might still have stored variables generated from the old MAF. My recommendation would be to do a full reset, where you connect both your main positive chassis wire directly with your main negative chassis wire ... and hold them together for a few seconds. This does more than a simple reset by a scan-tool as it ensures that any remaining potential energy stored in any capacitors or any on-board computers are completely drained out (keep in mind this includes your radio/clock which you'll need to reprogram).

The basic way to do this is to disconnect the negative terminal wire from your battery and reach it over and touch it directly to your positive terminal wire. This way you only need to remove one wire from your battery. If you have a winch or other component attached to any side posts of your battery, definitely remove those first! If you are unsure about anything, just undo everything from your battery and then bring your truck's main hot (+) and cold (-) chassis wires together in your hands. With the battery completely removed from the circuit, the only residual voltage will be from your truck's radio or ECU and would be entirely harmless trace amount of lingering energy.

...then reconnect the battery and resume driving your truck. It will take your computer a good week or two to re-learn everything, so by your 3rd or 4th tank of fuel you should know if the issue has gone away or not.

Good luck buddy!
BigMike

[H8PVMNT]

Thanks Bigmike!

I did it and it has helped allready. Cleared the old check light too.  Still feels like it needs to figure itself out but revs all the way up.

[toyodaaddict]

BigMike,anyone, iv seen you say all 79 on trucks have a vss in the cluster. can you point me in the direction of the info on how to tap into it on a first gen? if its in this thread i must have missed it. thanks

[H8PVMNT]

OK got the check light back again and the hesitation is also back, just not as bad as before.  Code is the P0171 air fuel system lean...

I put an ohm meter on the remaned MAF sensor and it reads as bad with an open circuit/no reading on the two of the five pins that are suposed to give you a resistance reading that varies depending on the tempature.

I guess I'll swap it out at the parts store apparently it's under warrantee.

Any other wisdom on this code?

[BigMike [OP]]

BigMike,anyone, iv seen you say all 79 on trucks have a vss in the cluster. can you point me in the direction of the info on how to tap into it on a first gen? if its in this thread i must have missed it. thanks

For the 1979 - early '82 SUPERIOR instrument cluster, it is very easy to find. There are two spade terminals that come out just above the speedometer cable hook-up. See the first 2 images below.

I've not done wiring for the 1982 - 1983 UGLY instrument cluster, so you'll need to consult the wiring manual for it. The easy to find spade connectors are done away with and you'll want to look through the three large rectangular plugs for the VSS+ and VSS- wires and connect these to the 3RZ-FE ECU. See the third image below. Sorry I don't have any additional info for the later type 1st gen instrument cluster.

I put an ohm meter on the remaned MAF sensor and it reads as bad ... it's under warrantee

Get that sucka replaced!!

[BigMike [OP]]

Maybe those two Phillips screws above the 1982-1983 speedometer cable attachment area are the VSS+ and VSS- ? I don't know without looking at the wiring. The labeling on the circuit board reads "GSM" I think...

[H8PVMNT]

My parts guy ordered me up another MAF sensor today no questions asked.  I tested the sensor twice with two different ohm meters justy to make sure.  It is a 5 pin sensor and you check resistance between the second and third pins, where ohms vary depending on temp.  I get infinate resistance, just like my old bad one, so apparently this is the problem.

What I am wondering now is how do these bad remaned ones get out there if they are tested before they send them off? Do they just clean the things and box them up?

Also what goes bad internally in the MAF that causes this curcuit to be shut down?  Could there be something about another compenent or wireing that cooks the MAF or is this even possible? I am basically just using the whole doner harness so there shouldn't be anything unusual but this has me doubting myself...

[HogCanyonHopper]

BigMike- so for the SUPERIOR first gen cluster, all I have to do is hook the 3RZ VSS +,- to the connectors on the back of the cluster like shown and I will have a working tach???  Your description above is just a little confusing  but that does make sense that the 3rz VSS wires would run the first gen tach.

[Frank Rizzo]

well the 22RE in my 86 IFS 4runner is on its way out.  I read through this entire thread and still looking for a definitive answer about which oil pan to use... thread has good info but god damn it needs to be cleaned up.   

[HogCanyonHopper]

you need the T100 rear sump oil pan. all kinds of info on the interwebs if you just search.

[H8PVMNT]

All right, I have a confirmed good MAF and also replaced the TPS just in case, still have a lean code check light and a 3500 rpm/wide open throttle stumble.  I can get more rpms after the new MAF but only if I ease into it.  When I really try to get it on it falls flat.
What now?  Fuel pressure?

[rcbro]

Bigmike, can u make those pictures of the vss  re-appear or pm them to me. Please

[Nation]

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=95785.120

That what youre lookin for?

[Nation]

All right, I have a confirmed good MAF and also replaced the TPS just in case, still have a lean code check light and a 3500 rpm/wide open throttle stumble.  I can get more rpms after the new MAF but only if I ease into it.  When I really try to get it on it falls flat.
What now?  Fuel pressure?

Capt. Crawler has or had a very similar issue from what I remember. I would check your fuel pressure. check everything. All sensors/wires/Grounds....Get a checklist together and start from the top. 

Heres a shot in the dark. Re set your ECM (ECU) and disconnect the o2 sensors. Maybe just maybe the o2 sensors are throwing the ecm a false code for some crazy reason. who knows just an idea.  Good luck and if you fix it be sure to post the issue so we can learn. Thank you and Good luck. 

[H8PVMNT]

I will try the O2 sensor thing this week.  I did follow the O2 sensor wires and they are in good shape.  I had a cut out on a 22re once from a burnt O2 sensor wire.

[H8PVMNT]

OK this one is probably for BigMike...

Put a fuel filter on and no change.

Then I got a hold of a decent scan tool so I could see stuff in live time. OBD 2 is kinda cool.  Most everything seemed to fluctuate properly but a couple of things seemed odd to me.

The first thing was that if I had any more than about 32% on my TPS the timing would retard itself drastically.  At 25-32% TPS while I was getting on it I had maybe 30-38° of timing advance, then above 32% TPS the timing advance would drop off instantly to like 15-20° advance which is when it "falls flat" and I can't get any more RPM. 

Just for kicks I actually taped a screwdriver to the  throttle pedal to keep the TPS under 32% and then I could finally get redline!  I could almost leave it like that but I am positive there is more power to be had if I could open my throttle all the way.

The only other thing was that it switched from closed loop to open loop at different times when I was fluctuating the load and throttle.  Maybe that's not odd, I don't know.

So based on the timing dropping off after 32% TPS should I suspect a bad crank sensor, coils, bad ECM, or what?


Oh and what should long term fuel trim and short term fuel trim look like?

[BigMike [OP]]

LovePavement,

check ... Grounds....

^ That is what comes to mind at the moment, specifically the ground at your igniter. It could also be a bad igniter (but I suppose that would throw a code too?). Also how many grounds do you have between your chassis and your block, and between your chassis and cylinder head?

I'll have to double check this on mine, but timing change is standard. The timing is always changing based on AFR and TPS values, amongst others, and the more you put your foot into it the less advancing the ECU can do due to detonation. I do agree that a sudden, instant change of minus 15-20 degrees seems strange as it should be a smooth transition (short of suddenly flooring it). I'll be pulling my truck out from hibernation soon for some upcoming events so I'll take a look at how my timing changes at ~32% TPS.

As for short and long term fuel trim, this is an indicator as to how close to stock values the engine is running. Ideally you want the numbers to be close to 0 (indicates things are running efficiently) and they can change by different factors, being both positive changes (you've installed a more efficient cold air intake) and negative changes (you've got a warped exhaust valve).

So the results may be confusing. For instance, if the long term fuel trim is +10%, then the ECU is adding more fuel than it's base fuel tables are set for. This could indicate that something is causing a lean condition, such as an intake leak (more air is entering the engine than what the MAF has reported) or a clogged fuel injector (such that it's cylinder does not completely burn all of it's air, the O2 sensor detects this as too much unused air, so the ECU sees this as a system-wide lean condition and adds extra fuel to all the injectors [so the other 3 cylinders unknowingly run rich, waste fuel/worse MPG, shorten life of spark plug, etc]).

BUT, this could also result from a positive change, such as you've installed cams with a longer duration and/or lift, or an oversized throttle body. Now the ECU would be adding that +10% fuel to compensate for the 10% increase over the stock, anticipated amount of air flow, taking advantage of your new power mods.

The short term fuel trim is less important, as it could be a fluctuation of simply driving through a colder pocket of ambient air (if you've ever been on a motorcycle without a jacket at night then you know actually how common this is), or it could be that you've gone down a steep descent dropping thousands of feet in only a few miles.

If your long term fuel trim is greater than plus or minus 8% or so, then you would either have reason to suspect an issue or have assurance that the ECU is playing well with your new power mod(s). I believe that anything over +/- 15% will throw a fuel trim error code on the 3RZ-FE, which is why TRD includes a piggy back computer to handle the increased fuel demands of their Supercharger kit without throwing an engine code.

Probably the practical use of the long term fuel trim would be to monitor it a few times per month and watch for any unusual changes without you yourself doing any physical changes to the engine/engine components. If the Long Term trim has been running at a constant +4 to +5% for many months and then suddenly you notice it has dropped to 0 or gone negative and is staying that way, then you'd be clued to the fact that suddenly something is causing your engine to run rich, such as suddenly an injector is leaking because you keep using 87 octane gas from Fastrip or Beacon.

I was interrupted a few times during this reply so sorry if its sort of scatter brained / long winded. I'm going to stop typing now. Let us know about your engine grounds. Are you using a genuine Toyota MAF or it is some aftermarket / remanuf unit?



Regards,
BigMike

[H8PVMNT]

Right now I have a ground from the passenger side low on the block to the frame and a ground that goes from the block near the starter to a nut on the fender well right where my battery negative ground hooks up.  The coils have a ground from the bracket they hang on that goes right into the harness and I have no ground from the head to anything.


Should these have a ground from the back of the head to the firewall like the 22re?  I did put in an extra ground from the head to the fender well a while back and it made no difference.

Coils have good power and ground when I test from the harness plugs.  My ohm meter doesn't seem to work good enough to test the coil resistance.

On the MAF, originally I had a Toyota one, then I replaced it with a remaned one and it ran better but still has issues.  With the stick MAF it was beginning to dog out at like 2800 rpm, the remaned one I can get 3500+/- before it dogs out.  My parts guy ordered me up another one to test and still no difference, so I think the MAF is definitely good.  I tested on a guys nice expensive shop ohm meter and it tested good, actually they both tested good.  Then I replaced the TPS and that did nothing either.


Took a drive just now with the scan tool.  Long term fuel trim is like 15-17% at idle and from 25% to 37% while getting on it.  I have played with propane all over the intake and vac lines a couple weeks ago and found nothing that indicated a vac leak.  I do have one of those amsoil cone filters and I did a gasket-match and a bit of port and polish.  No fancy cams or anything.  Is it possible with that done I am just getting too much air for the ECU to compensate for?

I know the turbo/tuner set uses RX7 injectors that are a direct fit but like 440cc.  Should I consider this route?

Maybe I have a nasty injector?

I am kind of back to replacing the coils in my mind as well.

My brain is now smoking...