Author Topic: The Official 3RZ Knowledge and Database Thread (Read 911247 times)

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1170 on:** Nov 17, 2014, 07:30:27 AM »

I'd fine another Tacoma and see what is normal operating.
Don't read too much into stabbing the gas and watching the fuel trim. Most EFI has "acceleration enrichment" - basically the faster the TPS moves, it simulates a carb accelerator pump, so it's likely go to instantly rich.
The timing doesn't seem out of wack for cruise, but again, I'd want to check with another truck.

There appears to be a factory "tube like" manifold for these as well as the cast manifold. I just sold mine, or I'd offer it up. If you're going turbo, just slap something on there without holes.

The fact that it runs the same with the 02 sensors pulled is a bit odd.. Above 3k RPM, does it peg rich on the narrowbands? Leaky injectors aren't common on these...

GRW · « **Reply #1171 on:** Nov 17, 2014, 11:35:47 AM »

Quote from: dcg9381 on Nov 14, 2014, 11:59:33 AM

Anyone got photos of oil pans that were modified to clear IFS on 86-99 trucks/4runners? ChilKat isn't doing them any more... I've got one photo, but would like a few others for some eye-ball initial fabrication:

Can they tell you how much differance there is between the ones they sell and the ones you need (solid axle vs independant)?
Did you call and talk to them?

UtahGuy · « **Reply #1172 on:** Nov 18, 2014, 08:20:36 AM »

Quote from: Nation on Nov 15, 2014, 08:24:26 AM

3RZ - DO IT

That makes my pants fit funny.

Is there a build thread I can drool on? Details on the turbo setup?

Nation · « **Reply #1173 on:** Nov 18, 2014, 08:39:56 AM »

The turbo kit is LC Engineerings low boost kit for the 2rz/3rz motor. All I have done so far to compensate for fuel is install a walbro 255 fuel pump. my afr numbers are great at 11.5 at WOT.. cruising at 14.5.... only issue im having with stock computer and boost is that when im half throttling ill get afr numbers around 9-10... For the down pipe, I had it cut and clocked towards the driver side.. I went with the LC kit initially because of the availability. I only had tyo wait 3 weeks for the kit to be made and shipped. I really liked KO racings kit. Thats what i was originally planned on purchasing.. with a wait time of 10 weeks before they even started to assemble the kit.. im just too impatient.. I do think that KO racings kit is sweeet as heck and dont let my lack of patients steer you away from their kit!!!! I felt LCs kit should have come with a little more for the price... but in the end my truck runs great and the beefy LC turbo header is beast and looks bullet proof. I have beaten a nearly brand new chevrolet silverado single cab that had the 5.3, an older chevy with the 5.3, new volks GTI with exhaust at least, subaru wrx bug eye style, honda civic, blah blah.. all on a closed course to be sure

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=95785.0

I wish i had more details on the turbo but feel free to ask any questions.. Hopefully ill have an answer...

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1174 on:** Nov 20, 2014, 11:03:46 AM »

Gak.. having the T100 pan modified for IFS trucks - going rate is $600 after buying a pan...
Someone let me know if there is a better option...
Was told if I DIY'it that I need to weld it with it on the block to avoid distortion.

stubbysr5 · « **Reply #1175 on:** Nov 20, 2014, 07:55:56 PM »

Want to jump in here for a second. The factory " tube like" manifold is actually a quality Toyota shorty header. Part # 17141-75080. I got mine from Bosch Toyota back east somewhere. I think a little over 2 bills including shipping. Tucks in close to the motor and is Toyotas replacement for the crack prone cast manifold. This factory headed has the stock 3 bolt two exhaust hole flange. It is a direct replacement for the cast manifold. The down pipe bolts up to it. I would have liked to have mine chromed or ceramic coated before putting it in service but time an $ did not allow. It is that nice of a product though. Any vaccum leaks after the MAF sensor is unmetered air that will not compensated for by the ECM causing a lean condition. Exhaust leaks before the first O2 sensor will cause theECM to enrichen fuel mixture due to inaccurate reading from the O2 sensor. From what I have been told the first O2 sensor handles mixture control and the second one is to monitor catalytic converter efficiency. I am not running a second O2 sensor but I deal with a CEL code for no bank 1 sensor 2 heat circuit and no bank sensor 2 voltage signal. I plan on utilizing an O2 simulator. I did not explain the exhaust leak effect very well. Some of this info I found on a MR2 forum. Obviously exhaust choice is one or the other depending on pressure or normally aspirated. Hope this helps someone. I had a fast rough idle from the vacuum hoses at the power steering idle up valve at the pump. I eliminated the hoses cause my 12:50s prevent turning to full travel anyhow.

GRW · « **Reply #1176 on:** Nov 21, 2014, 05:45:11 AM »

Quote from: dcg9381 on Nov 20, 2014, 11:03:46 AM

Gak.. having the T100 pan modified for IFS trucks - going rate is $600 after buying a pan...
Someone let me know if there is a better option...
Was told if I DIY'it that I need to weld it with it on the block to avoid distortion.

It's like welding anything the heat is going to make it want to change shape (warp).
You could use almost anything that would hold it in place (get some steel plate and drill holes and bolt it to it).
Or bolt it to the motor.
Did it come with a pan?
If you cutting up the new one to make it work why not use the old one?
It's just a little more work, right.
I need to look and see if I still have my old one.
A person could pick up another non usable one and mod the two into one...
Or build you own with some sheet and the pan you have (look at the deep sump pans for hot rods).
I have not looked in this (I have a solid axle) but if you can get by with basic/simple shapes vs the stock shape.

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1177 on:** Nov 21, 2014, 07:53:16 AM »

I understand that it's likely to warp with too much heat. I've got a motor out and on the stand, so welding it on-stand isn't a problem, just cover the internals so no slag gets on a cylinder wall.
The 2rz I have came with a pan. I also ordered the T100 pan for the rear-sump swap.
Sure, it's more work.. The question is how much more work - if there is a ton of trial-error fitting, it may be worth the $600 to have it done... The shape is not simple (see the pan above) - they're not square cuts... Just surprised there isn't a drop-in pan for this.. Might be simpler to modify LCE's 5" square pan, just pulling it up around the diff - less reduction in capacity and easier to weld on with square cuts.

Nation · « **Reply #1178 on:** Nov 21, 2014, 08:15:19 AM »

Quote from: dcg9381 on Nov 21, 2014, 07:53:16 AM

I understand that it's likely to warp with too much heat. I've got a motor out and on the stand, so welding it on-stand isn't a problem, just cover the internals so no slag gets on a cylinder wall.
The 2rz I have came with a pan. I also ordered the T100 pan for the rear-sump swap.
Sure, it's more work.. The question is how much more work - if there is a ton of trial-error fitting, it may be worth the $600 to have it done... The shape is not simple (see the pan above) - they're not square cuts... Just surprised there isn't a drop-in pan for this.. Might be simpler to modify LCE's 5" square pan, just pulling it up around the diff - less reduction in capacity and easier to weld on with square cuts.

If you were going to go with any other option than builoding it yourself pay the $600.. call it good. You may be able to get an oil pan for cheap to get the cost down?

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1179 on:** Nov 21, 2014, 09:58:54 AM »

I can't imagine $600 for modding an oil pan. That should be 5 hours of welding in a shop. I don't know how that could take a decent fabricator 5 hours.

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1180 on:** Nov 22, 2014, 12:40:05 AM »

Finally figured out the problem in H8pvmnts old 3RZ. Between my work and the shops, we tried alot of things. The shop is a mostly toyota shop and the mechanic has done over 10 3.4 swaps and 4 3rz swaps. He works on these every day, and we still had to just keep trying things, because even his new Snap on scanner didn't really help.
In the end, after checking wiring, changing O2 sensors, TPS, CPS checking valves, vacum lines, ecu, etc....
IT WAS THE FUEL INJECTORS.
The strange thing was that they were all apparently bad. All the plugs were fouled out.
We changed the whole fuel rail, regulator, and injectors together from a parts engine. The computer was trying to richen things up, and it smelled rich because of exhuast leaks and strange injector behavior, but it was just running out of fuel. When we misted fuel into the intake while reving it, it reved up quickly and much better. So we tried the injectors.
Even pinching off the return line didn't fix it so we figured it wasn't fuel pressure to the rail.
Anyways, it still surges a little here and there, but it still has exaust leaks and has an older reman MAF. Its obvious the main problem is fixed though. Hope this helps some others. Heading to the oregon dunes with this and a rzr 900 next weekend...
Thanks everyone.

Nation · « **Reply #1181 on:** Nov 22, 2014, 05:47:30 AM »

Quote from: MRHilux87 on Nov 22, 2014, 12:40:05 AM

Finally figured out the problem in H8pvmnts old 3RZ. Between my work and the shops, we tried alot of things. The shop is a mostly toyota shop and the mechanic has done over 10 3.4 swaps and 4 3rz swaps. He works on these every day, and we still had to just keep trying things, because even his new Snap on scanner didn't really help.
In the end, after checking wiring, changing O2 sensors, TPS, CPS checking valves, vacum lines, ecu, etc....
IT WAS THE FUEL INJECTORS.
The strange thing was that they were all apparently bad. All the plugs were fouled out.
We changed the whole fuel rail, regulator, and injectors together from a parts engine. The computer was trying to richen things up, and it smelled rich because of exhuast leaks and strange injector behavior, but it was just running out of fuel. When we misted fuel into the intake while reving it, it reved up quickly and much better. So we tried the injectors.
Even pinching off the return line didn't fix it so we figured it wasn't fuel pressure to the rail.
Anyways, it still surges a little here and there, but it still has exaust leaks and has an older reman MAF. Its obvious the main problem is fixed though. Hope this helps some others. Heading to the oregon dunes with this and a rzr 900 next weekend...
Thanks everyone.

Knew it.. glad you got it figured out!!

Nation · « **Reply #1182 on:** Nov 22, 2014, 08:07:22 AM »

Quote from: Nation on May 16, 2014, 01:07:48 PM

Have you checoed the injectors yet? Put a noid light on em. Maybe better yet. Pull em out n have em rebuilt or at least checked.. maybe one of them has failed and is dumping fuel? Maybe even the ecm or ecu...

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1183 on:** Nov 23, 2014, 06:18:28 AM »

Wow.. All the injectors failing would be odd.. Something got fried. A single injector failure is pretty rare in itself.. Glad you found it!

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1184 on:** Nov 23, 2014, 09:16:24 AM »

Ya It kinda worries me. I guess the old ones didn't look plugged, so Im guessing they had an internal short or something. But the last owner said it got progressively worse, so I guess its possible they failed over time.
Cant seem to get my dash lights to come on or my blower. Frustrating. Runs great though.

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1185 on:** Nov 23, 2014, 09:10:00 PM »

Exactly... So the white wire I hooked to constant 12v in a secondary fuse box I have... Its got power. The two fuses by the heater relay are good. The blower plugs all seem plugged in right. Ive obviously checked all the fuses. H8pvmnt did the harness previously, and he had one wire marked 12v relay splice... Hard to explain.
The Dash lights: The plug labeled "dash dimmer" on my harness has a three prong plug. My Dash has a two prong dimmer knob. I tried jumping the prongs in the harness to just light them up, but nothing happened. Did they have different dimmers?
Thanks a million for the help. Trying to get the blower fixed before we leave for oregon dunes this wednsday. Its cold and my wife will complain if I don't fix it. haha

H8PVMNT · « **Reply #1186 on:** Nov 24, 2014, 08:29:19 AM »

The blower was hard to figure out. I remember looking at wiring diagrams and scratching my head for a while, playing with jumper wires. I wish I had more for you but I can't remember exactly how it went.

Something in the old heater stuff needs ignition hot spliced in somewhere to work... I think. Otherwise it won't let the blower relay turn on. Play with some 12V on things with everything else on and it will click on when you find the right wire on the old heater/blower plugs. That labeled 12V wire must be the one I ran to whatever needs the switched 12V. Put a tester on it to see if it is switched/ignition hot and then look for whatever needs it on the other end...

I am sure glad you figured out the fuel problem though! If I had access to some parts trucks around here... That was the next thing on my list to try but I couldn't afford injectors at the time. But that's why I'm going back to carb.

H8PVMNT · « **Reply #1187 on:** Nov 24, 2014, 08:32:07 AM »

Hey I think I sent you the new style dimmer switch that plugs in to that harness. If it's there use it in your dash. If it's not let me know and I'll look for it in my pile.

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1188 on:** Nov 24, 2014, 11:43:23 AM »

SR-5 (1987) Temperature gauge sender:

Can anyone confirm or deny the compatibility of the 2RZ/3RZ temperature gauge sender with the 1st generate SR-5 22RE temperature gauge sender? I couldn't find resistance curves in the FSM. I measured them and they're about the same resistance at ambient. If no one knows, I'll pull them and check them in ice water and hot water...

I was told "just swap them" - but they're not compatible sizes...

Again, this is the temp sender for the gauge, not the ECU...

22RE sender:
http://www.2rzturbo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/22re_lower_intake.jpg

2RZ/3RZ sender:
http://www.2rzturbo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2RZcoolantinletsensor.jpg

Edit, testing them, they seem to be compatible:
Sensor Ice_water Room_Temp Hot_water

2rz 2200 ohm 964 ohm 200 ohms

22RE 1800 ohm 823 ohm 200 ohms

GRW · « **Reply #1189 on:** Dec 01, 2014, 11:30:09 AM »

heater core hoses...
I believe I have them routed correctly and I have the 22RE valve installed.

Question: How close is your hose (the one running to the valve) to the line running to your EGR?
Have you had any issues with it?

Mine is right next to it and I hate to melt it.

Thanks Gary

Nation · « **Reply #1190 on:** Dec 01, 2014, 11:41:33 AM »

Don't worry about anything melting. Worry about things rubbing together and making holes

Nation · « **Reply #1191 on:** Dec 01, 2014, 11:42:50 AM »

If you use some longer hose, you can get the plumbing to go above the egr..

Nation · « **Reply #1192 on:** Dec 01, 2014, 11:47:35 AM »

I have not had to add a drop of oil to my 3rz in the year I've had it in my truck.. only during oil changes. . The amount of money I save on oil alone cuz of my old 22R has already paid for my swappp... not to mention the fuel economy difference. I think that's paid for itself x12 fold by now...

MRHilux87 · « **Reply #1193 on:** Dec 01, 2014, 02:09:28 PM »

The only line I worry about is my fuel line. It runs up the passanger side and its too close to the header for comfort. Still trying to decide if I wanna move the hard line or make a shield. What did you all do?

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1194 on:** Dec 01, 2014, 02:24:28 PM »

You can also buy stuff to insulate the hoses. The cheapest material is often another hose.... Otherwise there are various materials made for high temperature.

In terms of getting them to work correctly, as I understand it, even hooked up backwards the heater is going to work fine.

Heres a snippet from a FSM on how the heater hoses show flow for the 2rz/3rz:
http://www.2rzturbo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2rz_cooling_path.jpg

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1195 on:** Dec 01, 2014, 02:36:29 PM »

Quote from: MRHilux87 on Dec 01, 2014, 02:09:28 PM

The only line I worry about is my fuel line. It runs up the passanger side and its too close to the header for comfort. Still trying to decide if I wanna move the hard line or make a shield. What did you all do?

You can buy something called "fire sleeve" - which is a silicone based hose shield.... Here's a photo of it on the oil line to my turbo (which sits under the exhaust manifold):

http://www.2rzturbo.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2rz_turbo_oil_lines.jpg

I use it all the way up to the top of the turbo:

Nation · « **Reply #1196 on:** Dec 01, 2014, 02:58:58 PM »

I bought my own roll of fuel line from pep boys and went over to the driver side str8 from the gas tank. I used the trucks Frame x member as a guide.

Nation · « **Reply #1197 on:** Dec 01, 2014, 02:59:40 PM »

I have kind of a detailed write up on a 3rz swap

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1198 on:** Dec 01, 2014, 08:47:34 PM »

So apparently there are 3 ways to deal with the AC on a 1st generation 4runner conversion:
1) Keep the 2rz/3rz compressor and use the top of a 1988 V6 (3.0) 4runner compressor - I'm told that the factory 4runner AC lines will then adapt to the 2rz/3rz compressor. Convert to R134a. Unconfirmed.
2) Keep the 2rz/3rz compressor and have custom lines built. Convert to R134a.
3) Keep the 22RE 4runner compressor intact. Leave it in the truck when pulling the motor and don't break the seal on the refrigerant.

I chose #3.

Props to liveoak on this forum that pointed out that the compressors will bolt up to either motor, at least in the case of the 4runner... And noting that a 22RE compressor, Chilkat mounts, and 2rz/3rz = clearance issues.
LiveOaks build is here: http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=97722.msg1087642

Here's what you're looking at:

To deal with this, you need to "modify" the Chilkat mount, the stock mount cover, and nibble a bit off of the rubber isolator itself... Here is LiveOak's mount:

This is what it ends up looking like - pretty tight.. So I hope you've got a good ratcheting wrench to get at the engine mount on the block... Thanks to Ryan here locally who let me borrow his 22RE compressor to mock this up out of the truck:

dcg9381 · « **Reply #1199 on:** Dec 01, 2014, 09:01:20 PM »

Downpipe fabrication.
I used a manifold from Treadstone performance. It's a cast manifold, but it's thick, the metal is somewhat soft, but I don't trust the "tube" manifolds that I see being built.
As far as I'm concerned the best manifold in the business is made by Steed Speed, but it's not inexpensive at $750. Treadstone is around $350.
It's setup for an external wastegate, which I had from my 22RTE.. However, plumbing it into the exhaust isn't trivial...

My turbo has a V-band exit, it allows the exhaust to rotate, which is helpful for prototyping.

Here's the mockup:

Related Topics