What do you think of Christ?

[*FFC*]

I agree with you Fordfreakchik...   but you would be surprised how many churches teach this and how many people believe this... even the Bible anticipates this.. it warns about false Christs and false Jesus' and that we are to watch out for them,....

Wow. I know of one religion that preaches it, but it doesn't make any sense to me.  Oh well people have their different opinions for their beliefs....  this particular belief is just to me

[NO4X]

you would be surprised how many churches teach this and how many people believe this...

The SDA's believe this, although they won't come out and say it right away.  That is the exact reason, I am no longer an SDA.  Wrong Christ!

[*FFC*]

The SDA's believe this, although they won't come out and say it right away.  That is the exact reason, I am no longer an SDA.  Wrong Christ!

I've been an SDA my whole life and I've never met an SDA that believed that....

[NO4X]

I've been an SDA my whole life and I've never met an SDA that believed that....

Then you should attend an evangelistic meeting at an SDA church.  Also, Patriarchs and Prophets, page 761 paragraph 5.

I have met a couple...and when I found out, I got out. 

Beware of false christs and doctrines of devils.

[chim]

hmm..  I thought it was just the JW's and Mormons..... although the Mormons deny it and dont teach it anymore.

[*FFC*]

Then you should attend an evangelistic meeting at an SDA church.  Also, Patriarchs and Prophets, page 761 paragraph 5.

I have met a couple...and when I found out, I got out. 

Beware of false christs and doctrines of devils.

I HAVE and I've still never heard of it.  Then again, each individual has a different belief.  I don't let my "church" choose my beliefs.  I am a member of the SDA church because I believe that the seventh day is the Sabbath, and that is the day that is to be kept Holy.  There are other reasons too, but that is one of the main reasons for me. As for my own beliefs, they don't choose em for me I can think for myself

[NO4X]

I didn't say you believed it.  I said it was a doctrine of the SDA church.  And, they won't just come out and say it.  Question your parents or pastor about who they believe the Angel of the Lord, in Exodus 3, and in 1st chronicles 21:16 is.

Remember, we need to prove all things.

[chim]

all this stuff is exaclty why I go to a non-denominational Bible teaching church!

[NO4X]

all this stuff is exaclty why I go to a non-denominational Bible teaching church!

Don't even get me started on them!!!!

[NO4X]

I don't know your background Fordfreak, but I can tell you I was like you most likely.  I believed the SDA church doctrine.  Even today, I still hold to much of their doctrine, although for different reasons.  Attended SDA Elementary school, (no Academy) was a deacon in the Church.  My dad was an elder.  I still love the people of that church, and see them. But now, I speak out when I see or hear doctrine that is not biblical. I, myself, cannot say, "Oh, well I don't believe that way".  If it's not true...I have to say it's not true.

[NO4X]

When I found EGW to be false, I said, "Well, I don't believe she is a prophet, and I am still SDA".  Then I had a discussion with my parents about the Angel of the Lord.  They informed me Michael was Jesus.  I said, "No Way!"  Then I saw on Amazing Facts (doug batchelor) that he teaches Michael is Jesus.  I can't believe this.  It is not biblical.

(http://www.amazingfacts.org/media/radio/question_read.asp?tID=38) The link to amazing facts.

[*FFC*]

I believe that Jesus spoke throught Michael but they are NOT one and the same

[NO4X]

That is awesome...I agree with that.

[*FFC*]

That is awesome...I agree with that.

Yay! A common ground  


If Michael was the same as Jesus, then I guess Peter and Paul and the other disciples that healed people are all the same person (Jesus) right? WRONG! Jesus spoke through them, and his work was done through them...

[blackdiamond]

This isn't a subject that I have really studied for myself, but I do think that I have heard, in the SDA church, that Jesus and Michael are the same, and Christ is the 2nd Adam not the same guy as Adam.  I will do some poking on this one.

[*FFC*]

This isn't a subject that I have really studied for myself, but I do think that I have heard, in the SDA church, that Jesus and Michael are the same, and Christ is the 2nd Adam not the same guy as Adam.  I will do some poking on this one.

Second Adam? Where's he come in ?

[NO4X]

I think it's in Hebrews....but what is being referred to is the fact that only 2 people in history can be called the son of God.  Adam and Jesus.  Referring to Jesus as the 2nd adam is like saying God's 2nd son.  So we have to come to God by being adopted into the family of God's 2nd son, rather than inheriting death by being born into the family of God's 1st son.

It's throughout the bible.  First son, Ishmael, does not inherit the blessing, the 2nd son does, Isaac.  1st son Esau, does not inherit the blessing, the 2nd son, Jacob, does.

[NO4X]

Did you check out the Amazing Facts link?

[NO4X]

Remember, This guy is representing SDA's on the television.  Make sure he is representing your beliefs accurately.

[*FFC*]

Did you check out the Amazing Facts link?

Remember, This guy is representing SDA's on the television. Make sure he is representing your beliefs accurately.

Yes I saw it and I was surprised.  I usually like Doug Bachelor Not that I believe everything that I hear, and I don't worship Mr. Bachelor I worship God

[NO4X]

I like him too.  I think he's a very sharp man, and I normally agree with him...But here he is representing a false Christ.  And after all that's what it's all about.

[blackdiamond]

Second Adam? Where's he come in ?

Christ is referred to as the 2nd Adam because He came to earth to regain the dominion that Adam (of Adam and Eve) lost.  It is just a reference to a role and not Him actually being Adam.  I suspect that this has something to do with the belief that Adam and Christ are one that was referenced earlier.

As for Michael and Jesus, I just poked at my friend/pastor (I actually knew him in HS so he is a friend first) and his comment was that it was a "fun" topic.  He is going to get me some information that I can study(hopefully today), he knows that for the purposes of this discussion the Bible is the only thing that applies so I will study it and let you know what I find.

So far all I have heard is that you all don't agree with the doctrine, but rather it is true or not depends on what the Bible says and nobody has posted anything from the Bible to support their views.  What you and I think doesn't make a hill of poo bit of difference, this is why I try to keep the majority of my posts full of Biblical references (this led to a couple of people asking to hear what I really thought about the subjects which sort of confused me since that is exactly what I had been posting).  We might not all have the same interpretation of the verses, but at least we have something solid to base our beliefs on.  Just my 

I would suggest that everyone take a couple of hours this weekend and study the topic for themselves and see what it really says, I don't claim to know much on anything on this particular topic.

[chim]

When I was in the Mormon Church and the Doctrine that Adam was God was one where several people said.. "Thats a fun one!" Truth is...  no one ever answered it and their answers were based off of their personal feelings and they totally disregarded what had been written by their prophets. Thats why it was fun for them... they made light of it to make it seem less important..  but the nature of God is VERY important.

I personally dont have any versus to say michael is jesus.. or someone is whoever..  because I never found that.. so its really up to the false teachers to provide that sort of thing.

I do agree that the reference to sencond adam has nothing to do with them being the same in any sense of the term!

[NO4X]

the SDA prophet says that Michael is Jesus. 

[chim]

Where?!?!?!

[*FFC*]

Where?!?!?!

Doug Bachelor says it, but I don't know bout EGW... but then again like referred to earlier.. Patriarchs and Prophets..and EGW wrote that... But just cuz they say it doesn't mean I believe it

[NO4X]

Patriarchs and Prophets, pg761, paragraph 5. 

[NO4X]

Fordfreak, if you don't believe it, why would you want to associate yourself with these people?  This could be affecting your witness to unsaved people.

[*FFC*]

Fordfreak, if you don't believe it, why would you want to associate yourself with these people?  This could be affecting your witness to unsaved people.

I believe that Saturday is the Sabbath, I didn't say I go to church every week.  In all actuality, I graduated High School almost 3 years ago, and I've been to church once since then.  I can worship and have my beliefs without doing it in the church.  I still claim to be SDA because I have many of the same beliefs as the SDA church. 

[blackdiamond]

Fordfreak, if you don't believe it, why would you want to associate yourself with these people?  This could be affecting your witness to unsaved people.

I will check out the P&P reference tonight and see what Biblical information my pastor passes along.  I can assure you that he isn't going to "duck" the subject, I have had several interesting discussions with him before.  I'm sure what he intended by "fun" is that it is a definate point of disagreement among Christians.

As I said before, post up some texts that either show them as one or separate, there should be clear Biblical evidence of one or the other.  I am not suggesting that you will find a text that says, "Jesus and Michael are NOT the same guy," but I might expect to see some interaction between them if they are different beings.