Author Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild  (Read 195498 times)

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #840 on: Apr 25, 2017, 09:29:47 AM »
You have drug out a simple rebuild this long. Over analyzing 90% of it. Now when you want to swap the cam shaft you won't do it right?

Just my opinion it may be worthless.
  :rofl:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #841 on: Apr 25, 2017, 09:44:37 AM »
someone else ask did you degree in the camshaft. anytime the deck has been cut or the head shaved
the cam will be out of time slightly. an adjustable camshaft sprocket can be used to get it back into spec.
on stock cams this is not as important as aftermarket cams. if this was not done during assembly  :smack:
it could be the root of your problem. read up on youtube about how to degree a cam. the card that came with the
cam will tell you when things are supposed to happen (opening and closing of the valves). a few degrees
off can make a huge difference and aftermarket cams are more dependent on this being correct.
even if the head is new and the deck is uncut (never built one that had an undecked block) i still degree in my cams.
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Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #842 on: Apr 25, 2017, 10:37:10 AM »
someone else ask did you degree in the camshaft. anytime the deck has been cut or the head shaved
the cam will be out of time slightly. an adjustable camshaft sprocket can be used to get it back into spec.
on stock cams this is not as important as aftermarket cams. if this was not done during assembly  :smack:
it could be the root of your problem. read up on youtube about how to degree a cam. the card that came with the
cam will tell you when things are supposed to happen (opening and closing of the valves). a few degrees
off can make a huge difference and aftermarket cams are more dependent on this being correct.
even if the head is new and the deck is uncut (never built one that had an undecked block) i still degree in my cams.

I understand cam timing.  I don't believe cam timing is the issue.  It may be retarded 1/2 degree due to the .006" the block was cleaned. 

Degreeing the cam is a good idea.

Thanks for your input.

Gnarls
« Last Edit: Apr 26, 2017, 03:14:59 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #843 on: Apr 25, 2017, 10:40:33 AM »
You have drug out a simple rebuild this long. Over analyzing 90% of it. Now when you want to swap the cam shaft you won't do it right?

Just my opinion it may be worthless.

The length of time for this project has zero to do with the issues, or how to replace a camshaft without removing the head. 

Whether I over-analyze the crap out this rebuild, or do it as blind-folded retard, has nothing to do with the issues.

How I do it, or doing it "right" is subjective.

Thank you for your input.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #844 on: Apr 25, 2017, 02:53:27 PM »
I will not unleash on you, but I will say the adjustable cam gear is a great tool no matter what cam you are running.  You could justify ordering one just for the sake of seeing what happens and it still wouldn't be a waste of money even if you ended up ditching that cam.  In my recent experiences adjusting the cam timing made large differences in the way my 22R ran.
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #845 on: Apr 25, 2017, 02:58:36 PM »
I will not unleash on you, but I will say the adjustable cam gear is a great tool no matter what cam you are running.  You could justify ordering one just for the sake of seeing what happens and it still wouldn't be a waste of money even if you ended up ditching that cam.  In my recent experiences adjusting the cam timing made large differences in the way my 22R ran.
All You have to do is remove the valve cover and cam bolt. Nothing crazy or that requires weeks of research.  :slap:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #846 on: Apr 25, 2017, 03:21:18 PM »
Why do you think you are running lean?

If you think your cam is defective you can check the specs with a dial indicator and the specs on the cam card to see if they match. I remember one of my 22r or 20r heads also had the original cam lobes misaligned with the rockers as well, and at least one rocker wearing only on one side.


Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #847 on: Apr 26, 2017, 03:06:58 AM »
All You have to do is remove the valve cover and cam bolt. Nothing crazy or that requires weeks of research.  :slap:

Research is my hobby.  :inthedark:

Gnarls. :gap:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #848 on: Apr 26, 2017, 03:09:56 AM »
Why do you think you are running lean?


Spark plugs color looks like a lean mixture and engine bay seems really hot on the exhaust manifold side.  It's got a little blubber at 1500 RPM, 1st gear at slack idle.   :dunno:

Gnarls.



« Last Edit: Apr 26, 2017, 03:44:27 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #849 on: Apr 26, 2017, 03:29:02 AM »
I will not unleash on you, but I will say the adjustable cam gear is a great tool no matter what cam you are running.  You could justify ordering one just for the sake of seeing what happens and it still wouldn't be a waste of money even if you ended up ditching that cam.  In my recent experiences adjusting the cam timing made large differences in the way my 22R ran.

Hey H8PVMNT,

You can "unleash" on me anytime.... I have big shoulders... I can take it.  :smooch:

You already know, I have mentioned it, and it's well documented, the modifications you do to a carb'd engine respond VERY differently than the modifications to the EFI 22.  :thumbs:

I don't think changing (advancing or retarding) the cam timing (depending on who's profile), will be as noticeable in an effort to get power gain or better throttle response, or fuel mileage, as it will on a carb'd engine.  I think the 22RE ECU and sensors will try to keep the mixture, ignition timing, etc, within a programmed range... most likely designed to meet the emissions regulations of the 80's.  I could be wrong, but so far that's my experience and seems to be consistent with the 1000's of post I've read on the subject over the past 15 years or so, coupled with the conversations I have had with some the most respected Toyota engine builders, camshaft manufacturers, and automotive racing experts on the planet.  :smokin:

Once I get the engine running right, I do plan to do more "tweaking and testing".... an adjustable cam gear would be a nice play thing.  :D

Before I start experiment tweaking, I would like to get this engine broken in and running like I think it should.  :driving:

Gnarls. :spin:
« Last Edit: Apr 26, 2017, 03:44:13 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #850 on: May 01, 2017, 04:54:47 AM »
UPDATE May 1st 2017 AM:

I drove the truck yesterday and the noise coming from the front of the rock cover is louder.  I need to figure out what that noise is.

It sounds like a loose rocker or valve lash? It seems to be just one or maybe 2 valves, louder near number one cylinder.  I hope its not a valve, valve seat, or spring.  I will try one more time on an adjustment on the valve lash, and open the lash up a couple thousandths. 

I'm going to carefully inspect the rocker rack, lash studs on valve stem location, and remove the camshaft.  I haven't decided yet, but I am leaning towards a new camshaft from CompCams - the 252S.  At this point, I'm concerned about the overlap in the 261C, but it's just my gut feeling, past reports on this cam in a 22RE, not based on any real hard facts.

Regarding the fuel pressure regulator... it's looks impossible to R&R without removing the chamber from the intake manifold.  But, I will replace it.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #851 on: May 01, 2017, 07:14:23 AM »
UPDATE May 1st 2017 AM:

I drove the truck yesterday and the noise coming from the front of the rock cover is louder.  I need to figure out what that noise is.

It sounds like a loose rocker or valve lash? It seems to be just one or maybe 2 valves, louder near number one cylinder.  I hope its not a valve, valve seat, or spring.  I will try one more time on an adjustment on the valve lash, and open the lash up a couple thousandths. 

I'm going to carefully inspect the rocker rack, lash studs on valve stem location, and remove the camshaft.  I haven't decided yet, but I am leaning towards a new camshaft from CompCams - the 252S.  At this point, I'm concerned about the overlap in the 261C, but it's just my gut feeling, past reports on this cam in a 22RE, not based on any real hard facts.

Regarding the fuel pressure regulator... it's looks impossible to R&R without removing the chamber from the intake manifold.  But, I will replace it.

Gnarls.
If I missed it forgive me. But, did You replaced the rocker arms with the new cam shaft? Cam going flat?
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #852 on: May 01, 2017, 08:27:11 AM »
Gnarls, I won't be able to get a look at my plugs for at little bit. Had at little accident and need to get the winch off of my truck in order to open the hood. I still strongly believe it's not the cam that's causing you problems as mine never did. After talking to H8 I figured out why I dislike this cam, the power band is narrow and it's a problem for me. 

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #853 on: May 01, 2017, 08:34:00 AM »
I replaced mine due to the :pokinit: power band.  :_oops:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #854 on: May 01, 2017, 08:55:44 AM »
If I missed it forgive me. But, did You replaced the rocker arms with the new cam shaft? Cam going flat?


There are several things you have missed.  I did not replace the rockers.  They looked good.  I will check for a flat lobe, but I don't think the rockers would cause that in less than 100 miles?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #855 on: May 01, 2017, 09:06:38 AM »
There are several things you have missed.  I did not replace the rockers.  They looked good.  I will check for a flat lobe, but I don't think the rockers would cause that in less than 100 miles?

Gnarls.
How old are the rockers You are running?
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #856 on: May 01, 2017, 09:38:25 AM »
When you put the valve cover on what did you torque those top 4 bolts to?

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #857 on: May 01, 2017, 09:41:28 AM »
Polish them there rocker pads on a wet stone, like you use for your skinning knife. Just drag them down the wet stone covered in good honing oil until you have an um-blemished surface with all the wear marks gone.  Probably not as good as new, but you end up with a nice fresh flat surface for the cam to break into.  I tried it as an experiment and it worked just fine.
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"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #858 on: May 01, 2017, 10:14:20 AM »
I believe all the cam manufacturers and 22re companies recommend replacing the rockers with a new cam shaft.
I have been told its like reusing lifters. A big NO NO!   :hammerhead:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #859 on: May 01, 2017, 01:23:47 PM »
I believe all the cam manufacturers and 22re companies recommend replacing the rockers with a new cam shaft.
I have been told its like reusing lifters. A big NO NO!   :hammerhead:

Yeah... Yeahh... I know.... at my age there's lots of "no-nos"!

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #860 on: May 01, 2017, 02:41:54 PM »
Figure I should post up here since I have a similar new rebuild. Engnbldr Street RV head, 261c and the DT header. Machinist has built plenty of 22REs and said all he needed to do to my rockers was polish them a bit. Did not need to deck the block. Valve lash set to 007/009.

Anyway, I could not be happier with how this motor runs. No issues with idle and starts with a blip of the key cold or hot. It has the quietest idle out of any 22RE I have owned (10 or so at this point) and definitely pulls harder than any of them. I have about 100 miles on it so far. And it does not seem to getting noisier. Like most of us I am super familiar with the valve chatter and this just does not do it for some reason.

I have never had a fresh rebuild though to compare it to. My last truck came to me with a rebuild with 30k on it, stock head, DT and the Comp Cams 252S. My butt dyno says it did not pull as hard as this new motor, although that was 33s/4.88 and my current ride is 35s/5.29. I could not get that previous motor to have a quiet valvetrain.

I'm in CO, so I will be doing emissions on a dyno. I will report back here with how that goes. They can't really test for lean but if I have high NOx that would be a sign.

I haven't read through this whole thread but are you sure your timing mark on the damper is correct? I had that slip on an old motor once and ended up timed 10 degrees ATDC when I thought I was spot on. Caused all sorts of misses and SUPER hot exhaust.

Long story short, unless that 261 is defective I doubt changing cams is going to fix your issues.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 02:48:20 PM by andykrow »
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #861 on: May 01, 2017, 04:43:24 PM »
Polish them there rocker pads on a wet stone, like you use for your skinning knife. Just drag them down the wet stone covered in good honing oil until you have an um-blemished surface with all the wear marks gone.  Probably not as good as new, but you end up with a nice fresh flat surface for the cam to break into.  I tried it as an experiment and it worked just fine.

I used a fine grinding wheel on a 20R engine.....................

I've heard (not personally) of the rocker arms tapping against the valve cover....................
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #862 on: May 01, 2017, 06:03:56 PM »
Gnarls, I won't be able to get a look at my plugs for at little bit. Had at little accident and need to get the winch off of my truck in order to open the hood. I still strongly believe it's not the cam that's causing you problems as mine never did. After talking to H8 I figured out why I dislike this cam, the power band is narrow and it's a problem for me. 


I'm sorry to read about your little accident and hope everybody is OK, and your truck is not damaged badly.

Yeah.. I won't be totally surprised if its the cam, but really hoping for a simple fix.

When you do get an extra 10 minutes to pull the spark plugs, and post a good close-up, I will really appreciate it... no rush.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #863 on: May 01, 2017, 06:06:43 PM »
When you put the valve cover on what did you torque those top 4 bolts to?

Yes, this apparently can cause a problem.  I have always torqued them by "feel", and just enough to seal the gasket.  I don't see a torque spec for those 4 acorn nuts in my FSM?

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #864 on: May 01, 2017, 06:09:16 PM »
I believe all the cam manufacturers and 22re companies recommend replacing the rockers with a new cam shaft.
I have been told its like reusing lifters. A big NO NO!   :hammerhead:

No, it's not like reusing lifters.

But, it's a common recommendation for the camshaft suppliers.  Is there a spec on the rocker pads?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #865 on: May 01, 2017, 06:19:45 PM »
Figure I should post up here since I have a similar new rebuild. Engnbldr Street RV head, 261c and the DT header. Machinist has built plenty of 22REs and said all he needed to do to my rockers was polish them a bit. Did not need to deck the block. Valve lash set to 007/009.

Anyway, I could not be happier with how this motor runs. No issues with idle and starts with a blip of the key cold or hot. It has the quietest idle out of any 22RE I have owned (10 or so at this point) and definitely pulls harder than any of them. I have about 100 miles on it so far. And it does not seem to getting noisier. Like most of us I am super familiar with the valve chatter and this just does not do it for some reason.

I have never had a fresh rebuild though to compare it to. My last truck came to me with a rebuild with 30k on it, stock head, DT and the Comp Cams 252S. My butt dyno says it did not pull as hard as this new motor, although that was 33s/4.88 and my current ride is 35s/5.29. I could not get that previous motor to have a quiet valvetrain.

I'm in CO, so I will be doing emissions on a dyno. I will report back here with how that goes. They can't really test for lean but if I have high NOx that would be a sign.

I haven't read through this whole thread but are you sure your timing mark on the damper is correct? I had that slip on an old motor once and ended up timed 10 degrees ATDC when I thought I was spot on. Caused all sorts of misses and SUPER hot exhaust.

Long story short, unless that 261 is defective I doubt changing cams is going to fix your issues.

andykrow,

Thank you for the fresh breath on 22RE engine building!

My DD software shows me what you are telling me your butt dyno is feeling.  THAT is why I decided on this cam for this engine and rebuild.  BUT... I did have some reservations.

I don't know how the harmonic balancer and the timing mark would slip on the pulley?  When I've checked #1 firing TDC, it's always been right on.

I'm pretty sure my stock exhaust manifold is creating some exhaust restriction and a DT header and 2.25" exhaust would be very noticeable.

My 22s have always had some rocker "tick", but its been the same balanced sound over the entire rocker rack.  And, when I have heard some excessive ticking, I have been able to do a valve lash adjustment and quiet them down to a more normal and even ticking sound.

Did you bore the block?

What sensors did replace, if any?

How many degrees is your total advance ignition timing?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #866 on: May 01, 2017, 07:04:16 PM »
An exhaust leak can sound like a tap.........
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

andykrow

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #867 on: May 01, 2017, 11:04:59 PM »
The harmonic balancer has a layer of rubber that is bonded. At least on the one that this happened to. I think it was just really old and shrunk up a bit. In any case I think the notch on the crank shaft should line up perfectly with the notch on the pulley, iirc.

Engine is bored 20 over. Timing is 5 degrees advanced with the test jumper in place. All sensors checked out so I didn't replace anything there. I had the injectors done by witch hunter but their report indicated I didn't really need to do that.

Truck ran decent before this but she ate up oil like crazy. Pretty much a quart on every full tank of gas! It had a slight miss at idle after getting fully up to temp but that has stopped with the rebuild and the idle doesn't move around like it used to.

Although the motor is quieter I would say it's got a bit more vibration happening at idle. Doesn't bother me though. Kinda expect cams to do that.

I'm honestly a little surprised at the number of people unhappy with the 261. I talked to Ted for a long time before making the purchase, and really became convinced of his knowledge. And I think that combined with torque and HP charts that were posted for a bunch of cams (I think by you Gnarly on Yotatech? Haha) I decided on the 261.

Engine pulls super hard off idle to 4K. I'll probably wait a while before I rev it higher than that, but it certainly wanted to shoot right past 4K. The real test will be the high passes on i70. I have had many different flavors of 22re on that road, doing 60 in 3rd gear at 4K+ rpms, and I know every little steep part between Denver and Moab and how a strong vs weak 22re will handle it.  So far this truck feels like it will climb the fastest out of all of them, which is great cuz it's on 35s :) 3rd gear and 4.2-4.5k on the tach is my happy place for those climbs. I think I'm going to wait till I have a good thousand miles or so before I subject this motor to that kind of torture. But emissions is coming soon.... :maddest:
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

andykrow

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #868 on: May 01, 2017, 11:20:33 PM »
Not quite done typing for the night, haha. Regarding the manifold, I am going to relay one of Teds suggestions that has worked beautifully on two of my motors and a number of my friends'. 

His recommendation, at least for the sub 5k rpm world we are in, is to keep the stock manifold. It is already basically a header. Then run 2" pipe from the down tube (or whatever it's called that connects to the manifold, still a factory Toyota part), then step up to a 2.25 high flow cat, to a 2.25 magnaflow or other true straight flow muffler.

This is a high flow setup and you get the advantage of that manifold which is QUIET. At least compared to the DT or an LCE that sound like you have little chirping birds under your hood.

On the older motors, that downtube (collector? Idk what the part is called) actually remains two separate tubes for like 2 feet, essentially giving you a tri-y header.

Anyway, if you are going to do a high flow catback, why not weld it up to the stock manifold and see how it goes? Might save yourself $400. Those headers sure do look purdy tho, haha.
85 4runner, 22re, 5spd, Ultimate crawler, Alcan lift that is too high, 35s, ARBs.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #869 on: May 02, 2017, 04:26:06 AM »
Hey andykrow,

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Well… what you just described is almost exactly what I’ve experienced as I researched camshafts for the 22 over several years.

I am also somewhat surprised at the feedback on the 261C…. but… I also know there are many difference experiences with these vehicles and especially when it comes to engine rebuilds and power modifications… even the experts have different opinions.

As you probably know, Ted is a NASCAR Gold Wrench award winner.  He’s probably one of sharpest flow guys around.  I definitely respect his opinion.  Lately, I have had more conversations with Tod, his son, but Ted and I had some great back-and-forth on the Pirate site back a few years, and before that on the early Off-road.com site.

LOL… yeah my earlier posts on various cam comparison data is still in the FAQs on several sites….. despite the smack-down I got from skeptics about computer produced dyno data.  It may surprise many skeptics to find out how many serious race-engine builders use Performance Trends software! 

Based on my test data, my earlier choice was the CompCam 252S because at the time it was sold by one of the most reputable camshaft builders on the planet, and was a mild change to the stock cam specs.  I was primarily only looking for a small, but noticeable increase in torque in my target RPM range of 2500 to 3500, while maintaining a reasonable gas mileage.

As Ted at engbldr once confirmed on one of my posts, the results of a SuperFlo 902S tested engine may NOT simulate the same results on the race track as experienced by the driver.

I’ll work on compiling and posting my latest Engine Analyzer comparisons I did on several selected cam profiles specifically with our 2 rebuild specs.

I will figure out what the issues are with my rebuild, its just taking me WAY longer than I anticipated.

The one thing that has always REALLY bothered me is why I cannot get ANY actual dyno (engine or chassis) certified test data on the camshafts being sold for the Toyota 20/22R-RE engines!

On the exhaust... yes this is also something I've read about.  With my first 22RE, the exhaust changes were too big.  The DT header, muffler, cat, and 2.5" tubing caused a very noticeable loss in low end torque.  I had to change the tubing and the muffler.  The 22R responds differently to exhaust changes, in my opinion.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 04:37:15 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

 
 
 
 
 

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