Author Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild  (Read 188281 times)

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emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #600 on: Mar 23, 2017, 07:58:00 PM »
Did you get a new sock with the pump?





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31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #601 on: Mar 23, 2017, 08:00:41 PM »
I had to replace the pump on an 85 T-bird ages ago........

A piece of rubber from the sock had jammed up the pump.

You probably had something similar and dropping it dislodged junk.......
Ed
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31x10.50R15

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #602 on: Mar 24, 2017, 02:52:43 AM »
Did you get a new sock with the pump?


Yes, it comes with the Denso fuel pump kit.

Gnarls.


1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #603 on: Mar 24, 2017, 03:01:02 AM »
I had to replace the pump on an 85 T-bird ages ago........

A piece of rubber from the sock had jammed up the pump.

You probably had something similar and dropping it dislodged junk.......

Yeah.. thanks for the input... I was thinking the same thing (fingers crossed).  Without the sock to filter larger pieces of "anything", I can see how the pump could get plugged up.  When I drained the old gas that had been in the tank for almost 4 years, the gas was clean, I could not see any debris or material. It was stinky and appeared to be a little higher viscosity.

I'm glad I dropped the tank and checked this out.  I'd rather do it now in my garage than have the old 31 year old fuel pump fail when I'm out in the boonies or on the freeway between Phoenix and Casa Grande.

Gnarls.

« Last Edit: Mar 24, 2017, 03:08:21 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #604 on: Mar 24, 2017, 09:27:55 PM »
UPDATE 3-24-17 Friday      

Received Denso pump kit today.

Ohm’d yellow connector to the pump and two wires on the pump assembly = all good connections.

Ohm’d the old pump = 3.2 ohms

Ohm’s the new pump = 6.4 ohms

Installed the new pump onto the assembly.  It drops down into the bottom of the tank that looks like a rectangle area with a raised lip. It may be an anti-slosh thing.

I wrestled with that damn tank for about 1 hour before getting it up to the frame rail and filler hose screwed back on.

HOT TIP:  IF YOU DROP THE TANK TO R&R THE FUEL PUMP – DRAIN THE TANK first!  :smack:

The tank had to be tilted edge-ways to get past the rear spring bolt and the rear drive shaft.

I have to bolt it down tomorrow, bolt on the skid plate, and hopefully get some fuel pumping to the cold start injector.

I was anxious to get the tank capped back up to avoid the gasoline fumes in the garage.

I hope to fire my engine Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning.  :bananasplit:

Gnarls.  :D
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #605 on: Mar 26, 2017, 05:07:53 PM »
UPDATE 03-26-17 PM

I got the fuel tank buttoned up.  I tested the new fuel pump yellow connector from the wire harness with at light and it turns on when the ignition key is on and the little flap inside the air filter cover/MAF is pushed, which also activates the relay which I can hear.  When I put my ear near the fuel tank filler hose I can hear it pump.

I got the engine to fire, but a paragraph of adjectives to would not completely express my disappointment.

Number 1 cylinder is not firing.  The spark plug looks wet, I think with gas.  At this point I don’t know why it wouldn’t fire.

I’ve tried two completely different sets of spark plugs, spark plug wires, and cap and rotor.

Do the fuel injector connectors from the wire harness have to be in a specific sequence attached to each injector?  If by chance I got cylinder number one injector connector switched with cylinder number 2 injector, would that cause one cylinder not fire?

I am very concerned it may be mechanical… like too low of compression?... or something is wrong with the valves?.

I have double checked the valve lash.

If there is any good news about this, it’s that there are no leaks any where.  The temp gauge goes to normal and I see oil pressure on the gauge.

I’m not sure where to start except to remove the throttle body (Oh my gawd!!) to get to the injector connectors and injectors?

I need valium drip right now!

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #606 on: Mar 26, 2017, 05:44:43 PM »
When I ordered my injectors there were numbers on them. I called 22RE performance and they said that was for testing and it didn't matter which Injector went where. As for the harness I marked mine with tape from front to back 1-4 and reinstalled them in that order. I didn't think there was enough slack for them to go back another way but looking back through my pictures the front and rear injector wires are longer than the middle ones. I hope this picture helps.   

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #607 on: Mar 26, 2017, 05:57:20 PM »
Bad spark, or bad injector.  :dunno:
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Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #608 on: Mar 26, 2017, 07:37:11 PM »
Bad spark, or bad injector.  :dunno:

Yeah... that seems logical.  I will test for spark, but I can't imagine what would cause it not to spark.

The injectors were rebuilt and tested by WitchHunter, so I'd be surprised if one is bad.

I am somewhat concerned about the injector connectors.  A couple are broken on the mating edge and the little wire spring clip is not attached to the edge slots.

I am going to do a compression check.

I will also check the injector resistor box.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #609 on: Mar 26, 2017, 08:17:17 PM »
IIRC, the 22re is batch fired, so the harness connectors and injectors are basically interchangeable, or at least as far as the connectors will reach.

Can you hear feel the #1 injector firing, smell fuel on the #1 spark plug?
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Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #610 on: Mar 27, 2017, 03:26:17 AM »
IIRC, the 22re is batch fired, so the harness connectors and injectors are basically interchangeable, or at least as far as the connectors will reach.

Can you hear feel the #1 injector firing, smell fuel on the #1 spark plug?

When I pulled the plugs, #1 was wet and clean. It did smell like gas, and seemed to dry rather quickly in the air.

I don't know how I would feel or hear the injector firing?  :dunno:

I suppose its possible that it is plugged or partial plugged.  I didn't do anything to the fuel rail.  :dunno:

I hate to have to pull the throttle body, but I don't how else to get to the injector and connectors.  :dunno:

There is probably a good reason I'm NOT an "engine builder".  :nope:

Gnarls. :(



1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #611 on: Mar 27, 2017, 03:52:56 AM »
I think you maybe do have to dig those injectors out if you are getting spark.  Don't freak out this is probably something stupid simple and you just have to use the process of elimination to find it.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I have to mention it.  Could your distributor be off a tooth or 180 degrees out?  I have done this a great many times over the years :).
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Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #612 on: Mar 27, 2017, 04:44:35 AM »
I think you maybe do have to dig those injectors out if you are getting spark.  Don't freak out this is probably something stupid simple and you just have to use the process of elimination to find it.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I have to mention it.  Could your distributor be off a tooth or 180 degrees out?  I have done this a great many times over the years :).

Hey H8PVMNT,

Yes... I'm trying to think that it is just something simple that I overlooked or just didn't check out well enough, or just a fluke failure, like the fuel pump.  I really took my time on this rebuild and was extra careful, I don't think I took any shortcuts... but, I have zero practice on THIS engine.

I'll feel better after I do compression check and hopefully see there isn't a problem with the valves or rings.

At my age, I don't take anything the "wrong way"... I've done more than my share of "how-in-the-heck-did-I-do-THAT!"... I have fubar'd a basic fart more than once!!  :yikes:

I've checked the disty several times for #1 firing at #1 piston TDC.

I have flashbacks to years ago when I was testing 22R/RE cam profiles on my DD and researching.  One of guys I was communicating with had been testing 22RE camshafts and tested engbldr 261C in his 22RE.  He said he thought it caused a "lean fire" condition (I assume lean mixture in one or more cylinders).  As I remember, Ted responded on Pirate at the time and posted that he had not seen that issue with the 22RE and his 261C camshaft.

With that said, according to what I've read, the opening and closing (lobe lift and duration) of the intake valves plays NO part in the injection timing - but that information is referencing the STOCK engine.  BUT... I wonder how much overlap the ECU will tolerate?

It takes to 2 (two) complete crankshaft revolutions to get enough fuel injected into the chambers because the injectors only get 1/2 the full amount - 1/2 the pulse time - during one revolution.

I'm puzzled.

I appreciate the input!!

Gnarls.


« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2017, 04:54:58 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Snowtoy

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #613 on: Mar 27, 2017, 12:21:38 PM »
I don't know how I would feel or hear the injector firing?  :dunno:

Gnarls. :(

Using a stethoscope you can hear the injector "tick" during starting or running, and should be able to reach in under/between the rad hose and intake to feel the #1 injector pulse with your finger.  The click/pulse should be precise/snappy.

Might try starting it again with the coil unplugged and compare the wetness of #1 and #2, not sure how much fuel gets carried in from the cold start injector. :dunno:


I have flashbacks to years ago when I was testing 22R/RE cam profiles on my DD and researching.  One of guys I was communicating with had been testing 22RE camshafts and tested engbldr 261C in his 22RE.  He said he thought it caused a "lean fire" condition (I assume lean mixture in one or more cylinders).  As I remember, Ted responded on Pirate at the time and posted that he had not seen that issue with the 22RE and his 261C camshaft.

With that said, according to what I've read, the opening and closing (lobe lift and duration) of the intake valves plays NO part in the injection timing - but that information is referencing the STOCK engine.  BUT... I wonder how much overlap the ECU will tolerate?

It takes to 2 (two) complete crankshaft revolutions to get enough fuel injected into the chambers because the injectors only get 1/2 the full amount - 1/2 the pulse time - during one revolution.

I'm puzzled.

I appreciate the input!!

Gnarls.

The ecu can only increase/decrease the duration of time the injectors stay open, and uses the O2 sensor, throttle body position, air flow meter, etc., to adjust that duration, most of which really don't come into play until the engine is warm.
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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #614 on: Mar 27, 2017, 01:37:16 PM »
Using a stethoscope you can hear the injector "tick" during starting or running, and should be able to reach in under/between the rad hose and intake to feel the #1 injector pulse with your finger.  The click/pulse should be precise/snappy.

Might try starting it again with the coil unplugged and compare the wetness of #1 and #2, not sure how much fuel gets carried in from the cold start injector. :dunno:

Okie Dokie... I have a real medical stethoscope, but I may have to buy one of them Probe type... and "listen" for the "tick".... and I'll put my finger on #1 injector and "feel" for the tick.

Thanks for the input!

Gnarls.


1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Snowtoy

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #615 on: Mar 27, 2017, 02:37:08 PM »
Probably could use the MD scope with a heavy wire, with either one, don't put both eat piece in, end engine now are too loud, I leave mine outside the ear canal, just for enough to hear what is going on.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #616 on: Mar 27, 2017, 06:37:41 PM »
If the spark plug is wet with fuel and smells like fuel then the injector should not be a problem. Are you sure you have spark at cyl. num 1? If you have fuel on the spark plug, and you have spark, then it can only be timing related, valve lash related, or mecanical damage.

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #617 on: Mar 27, 2017, 07:00:52 PM »
Probably could use the MD scope with a heavy wire, with either one, don't put both eat piece in, end engine now are too loud, I leave mine outside the ear canal, just for enough to hear what is going on.



I just ordered some tools.  I should have them Wednesday.  I will check the spark on all 4 plugs.  I will use my new engine stethoscope to "scope" out any good sounds.  I will also do a compression check.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #618 on: Mar 27, 2017, 07:31:52 PM »
If the spark plug is wet with fuel and smells like fuel then the injector should not be a problem. Are you sure you have spark at cyl. num 1? If you have fuel on the spark plug, and you have spark, then it can only be timing related, valve lash related, or mecanical damage.

Hey Gillesdetrail,

I have a bad gut feeling that this issue is not spark or fuel.  I hope I'm wrong!... and I will be glad to discover it's something simple.  Although there are very few things, in my experience, with anything I would call "simple" with this engine.

I will go back and re-check ALL adjustments again, just be sure I've not missed something.

I will re-check cam timing and ignition timing.  If it's mechanical, and it's a low compression issue, then it's likely the valves or valve seats.  This is a brand new RV head, OS valves, with a 261C cam installed by Tod at engbldr.  I'd be surprised it's a cylinder, piston, or piston rings... although anything is possible.  The block was bored 20 over, crank, pistons, rods, balanced, mic'd, magnafluxed and sonic tested by one of the most reputable engine builders/speed shops in Phoenix.... but again anything is possible.

The injectors were rebuilt by WitchHunter.. a highly reputable injector specialist.

However... this is a 31 year old vehicle and engine, so I'm not really surprised that I've encountered unexpected issues.  The truck was parked and in my garage for 3 1/2 years.

I will figure it out, with the input of everyone here who wants to share something, as I usually do.

There must be a reason why this is happening to me, so I'll assume I'm suppose to wait a little longer to get my truck back on the road again.... and "work" longer on this project.

I tell myself this is just a relatively simple engine, and to rebuild it and I should not need a PhD in automotive engineering.

Thanks for your input!

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #619 on: Mar 27, 2017, 07:42:31 PM »
How old is the gas?
Ed
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Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #620 on: Mar 27, 2017, 07:51:00 PM »
How old is the gas?

Hi emsvitil,

Thank you.  That tank was completely drained about 2 months ago.  I put in 5 gallons of fresh 91 octane gas last Sunday.

But.... I appreciate any and all "checks" to make sure I don't get caught with my "pants down".  :yikes:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #621 on: Mar 27, 2017, 09:45:45 PM »
Have you seen this thread? May be worth looking into the injector harness just in case.

 https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-22re-injector-problem-i-had.311436/

« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2017, 09:54:51 PM by liveoak »

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #622 on: Mar 28, 2017, 04:17:00 AM »
Have you seen this thread? May be worth looking into the injector harness just in case.

 https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-22re-injector-problem-i-had.311436/



Hey liveoak,

No, I did not find that one in my very brief Google search.

Well, it makes sense as a possible problem.  When I first started to pull the engine I did open the ECU box and disconnected the harness, I was going to pull the harness through the firewall, and then stopped after realizing there are too many wires connected to it.  I also sprayed the engine bay with engine degreaser and hosed off with a garden hose and nozzle - once before I pulled the engine, then again after I had engine out.  I can see how the solvent and water can get into the harness and corrode connections.

Having read my 1986 FSM, I knew there are 2 circuits that power (ignition switch on) a pair of injectors (2 injectors connected together).  The FSM does not label which injector, but it may be 1 & 2, and 3 & 4, and in looking at the plugs, I think there are 2 plugs that look they are cleaner than the other two.

IF there is a connection failure in the wire harness in one pair of injectors, I can see how this would cause the misfire.  IF there is a connector with BOTH pairs, then all 4 injectors would not fire.

The FSM has a detailed diagnose and test section, so I could start by opening up the ECU box and do some probing.

Based on the photo in the link, it looks like the area on the harness he has opened is in the front of the engine.  I will have to remove the throttle body and chamber to get to that harness…. Crap!

Thanks for the input.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Mar 28, 2017, 04:31:51 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #623 on: Mar 28, 2017, 04:38:32 AM »
In the category of simple, stupid things:  Do you have the ground from the back of the head to the fire wall hooked up?  This will sometimes make them not fire up.  I once rescued a guy on the side of the road with a dead 22re who had a crusty, broken ground there, I made him a new one and he drove home.

EFI fuse?  Stupid but I have fried this too and had it fool me.  Along the same line: Circuit opening relay clicking?

The EFI/Main lead to the battery positive in good shape and still there?  You know the smaller lead coming from the bottom of the under hood fuse box to the battery.  I was doing suspension on an '87 for a guy and it wouldn't start half the time, it happened that that lead looked OK but was all green inside. Replaced it and it fired right up.

Other dumb items include a fried coil/ignitor.  They can make spark but a weak spark and fool you.  I have had that before. Best to swap it out and try another one from a wrecking yard or a buddy for diagnosis.  Different years have different plugs but the same wires, so they are interchangeable to a degree.

On the compression, I may be wrong but I know I have had engine with horrible compression, broken rings, burnt valves, etc that will still fire and run.  I can't imagine with your meticulous rebuild that this would be the problem.

That's about all I have for you this morning.  I really want to see a first fire video!
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #624 on: Mar 28, 2017, 06:40:24 AM »
In the category of simple, stupid things:  Do you have the ground from the back of the head to the fire wall hooked up?  This will sometimes make them not fire up.  I once rescued a guy on the side of the road with a dead 22re who had a crusty, broken ground there, I made him a new one and he drove home.

EFI fuse?  Stupid but I have fried this too and had it fool me.  Along the same line: Circuit opening relay clicking?

The EFI/Main lead to the battery positive in good shape and still there?  You know the smaller lead coming from the bottom of the under hood fuse box to the battery.  I was doing suspension on an '87 for a guy and it wouldn't start half the time, it happened that that lead looked OK but was all green inside. Replaced it and it fired right up.

Other dumb items include a fried coil/ignitor.  They can make spark but a weak spark and fool you.  I have had that before. Best to swap it out and try another one from a wrecking yard or a buddy for diagnosis.  Different years have different plugs but the same wires, so they are interchangeable to a degree.

On the compression, I may be wrong but I know I have had engine with horrible compression, broken rings, burnt valves, etc that will still fire and run.  I can't imagine with your meticulous rebuild that this would be the problem.

That's about all I have for you this morning.  I really want to see a first fire video!

Hey... those are ALL things I will definitely check!!.. and a possibility...  at this point I won't completely rule out anything!

Thank you for the input!

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Mar 29, 2017, 04:21:32 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

liveoak

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #625 on: Mar 28, 2017, 08:32:15 AM »
From what I've read, your engine starts and runs(on 3 cylinders anyway) , reaching operating temp with good oil pressure, right?
Yes, the 4 injectors are only controlled by 2 wires from the ECU combining 1&4, 2&3. Based on what you said about washing the harness I would definitely look at the 3 solder connections and redo them (which is a good thing to do on any 22re rebuild).
« Last Edit: Mar 28, 2017, 09:35:01 AM by liveoak »

Gillesdetrail

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #626 on: Mar 28, 2017, 09:20:30 AM »
Hey Gillesdetrail,

I have a bad gut feeling that this issue is not spark or fuel.  I hope I'm wrong!... and I will be glad to discover it's something simple.  Although there are very few things, in my experience, with anything I would call "simple" with this engine.

I will go back and re-check ALL adjustments again, just be sure I've not missed something.

I will re-check cam timing and ignition timing.  If it's mechanical, and it's a low compression issue, then it's likely the valves or valve seats.  This is a brand new RV head, OS valves, with a 261C cam installed by Tod at engbldr.  I'd be surprised it's a cylinder, piston, or piston rings... although anything is possible.  The block was bored 20 over, crank, pistons, rods, balanced, mic'd, magnafluxed and sonic tested by one of the most reputable engine builders/speed shops in Phoenix.... but again anything is possible.

The injectors were rebuilt by WitchHunter.. a highly reputable injector specialist.

However... this is a 31 year old vehicle and engine, so I'm not really surprised that I've encountered unexpected issues.  The truck was parked and in my garage for 3 1/2 years.

I will figure it out, with the input of everyone here who wants to share something, as I usually do.

There must be a reason why this is happening to me, so I'll assume I'm suppose to wait a little longer to get my truck back on the road again.... and "work" longer on this project.

I tell myself this is just a relatively simple engine, and to rebuild it and I should not need a PhD in automotive engineering.

Thanks for your input!

Gnarls.

In my experience when you are diagnosing an engine probleme you really have to go step by step with what you know so far,

So here is what we know from your post if I read correctly.
1)the engine starts but runs on 3 cylinders.
2)cyl numb 1 is not firing
3)fuel is getting to cyl. numb 1 because the spark plug is wet and smells like fuel.

So from what we know, it can't be a bad distributor ground (because the engine would not start), or injector related (because fuel is getting to all 4 cyl.). So efi fuse is out of the question as well because if it was blown, it would not start, and no fuel would be getting to the cylinders. So here is what I would do next, make absolutely sure cyl num. 1 is not firing. If you are 100% sure, make sure there is spark. If you don't have spark in that cylinder only, It can't really be anything other than spark plug, spark plug wire, or cap related. Make 100% sure there is fuel getting to the cylinder (if spark plug is wet and smells like fuel, then fuel is getting there and you can rule out anything fuel related). Once we know all these 3 things we can narrow down from there.

If cyl. 1 is not firing, I am almost certain it is not caused by mecanical damage or improper installation, because it would fire even if there was only 30 psi. It would have to be something major for it to have 0 compression, to which there would be obvious signs just by pulling the spark plug, pulling the valve cover or by cranking it up.

So first thing is to make sure cyl 1 is not firing. If it isn't, and all the others are, we have to rule out a fuel, spark or air problem on that cylinder. If it IS firing, then it is probably timing related since the engine runs but poorly.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #627 on: Mar 29, 2017, 03:38:56 AM »
In my experience.... .... If it IS firing, then it is probably timing related since the engine runs but poorly.

Hi Gillesdetrail,

Thank you for your input.

I agree with your diagnosis.  Will a cylinder chamber fire on a freshly rebuilt 22RE engine with only 20 minutes of run time at a static compression of 30 lbs?

This afternoon I will check and verify spark to each cylinder and do a compression check.

I will see if I can detect #1 injector firing and will pull spark plugs again after getting engine up to operating temp and letting it idle for 10 minutes.

During the half dozen times I have fired the engine, after reaching operating temp, I have stabbed the throttle 5 or 6 times to 4,000 RPM with no change.  I have not attempted to drive the truck.

@Fuel Injectors – rebuilt and tested by WitchHunter

@Spark plugs, plug wires, cap & rotor
I believe I can eliminate spark plug, spark plug wires, or cap & rotor – replaced with two different sets.

@ Camshaft-Distributor Gear Timing
I believe I can eliminate initial distributor gear and cam sprocket timing – double checked number one piston is TDC,
# 1piston at TDC with distributor rotor sitting at number 1 contact on distributor cap. Distributor sitting at about the middle of adjusting slot.

@Crankshaft-Camshaft Timing
At initial engine assembly - #1 piston is at top of cylinder, crank pulley is at zero on oil pump timing tab, camshaft installed with keyway at 12 o’clock, camshaft sprocket sitting at 11:30 with both bright links at dots on crank sprocket and cam sprocket, valve lash adjusting screws completely loose.

@Valve Lash Adjustment
Double checked valve lash per 261C cam spec  - .007” Intake - .009” Exhaust.  The engine will start hard, but will warm up to normal operating temp on dash gauge, oil pressure comes up on dash gauge (obviously both not exactly accurate numerical reading).  Engine will idle at about 900 RPM on dash gauge tach. Engine sounds and vibrates like it is only firing on 3 cylinders… no backfire.

@Fuel Pressure
New fuel pump seems have plenty of fuel pressure – but I don’t have fuel pressure gauge.

One thing… when I was pulling the engine, the main wire cluster from the wire harness to the ignitor was caught and I cut the 3 wires about 20” from the connector.  I have carefully spliced and soldered it back together.  I’m not sure if that can cause the condition, but I will remove the insulation and look at where I soldered the 3 wires and verify conductivity.

I am hoping for a diagnosis and quick fix soon!!!

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Mar 29, 2017, 04:20:20 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #628 on: Mar 29, 2017, 03:45:04 AM »
From what I've read, your engine starts and runs(on 3 cylinders anyway) , reaching operating temp with good oil pressure, right?
Yes, the 4 injectors are only controlled by 2 wires from the ECU combining 1&4, 2&3. Based on what you said about washing the harness I would definitely look at the 3 solder connections and redo them (which is a good thing to do on any 22re rebuild).


Hi liveoak,

Yes... this could be an issue.  I will probably have to remove the t-body and chamber and get into the wire harness and injector connectors.  But... if an electrical connection is the issue, and #1 injector is not firing, then, according to your diagram, #4 injector would not be firing?

Thank you for your input.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #629 on: Mar 29, 2017, 04:25:12 AM »
POP QUIZ....   :attention:

Anybody know on what page in a Toyota Factory Service Manual for 22R/RE the firing order is specified?

Gnarls.  :inthedark:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

 
 
 
 
 

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