Author Topic: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild  (Read 180948 times)

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Gnarly4X

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #690 on: Mar 31, 2017, 02:41:02 AM »
... The cam grinds that I have received from EB have bin imprecise.

I have not visually looked at gobs of camshafts from different manufacturers so I don't have a big comparison.... but...

Again, when I first received the head with cam installed, I wasn't impressed with the "look" of the camshaft.  It looked like a rough casting.  The lobe surface seemed a little too rough. Then when I installed the rocker rack and saw how far off the rockers were laterally from the cam lobes, I was more concerned about the "quality" and preciseness.

I had a conversation with Tod at engbldr about it.

In my opinion, the head and camshaft in a 22 is one of the most important components for top performance and longevity.  Now at $5,000+ invested in this rebuild, several hundred dollars either way means diddly squat to me and the number hours invested.  I rebuilt this engine with the idea of not compromising on quality.

I could have just purchased the stage 2 head from 22RE Performance at a slightly higher price, but now wondering if that would have been the less risky choice.  I really like their detailed list of parts and assembly.

Hindsight can really change your perspective.

I'm tempted to get a degree wheel and mic the camshaft and see what it looks like in thousandths of an inch, and check the actual lift, duration, etc.

Gnarls.


« Last Edit: Mar 31, 2017, 03:15:33 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #691 on: Mar 31, 2017, 02:57:39 AM »
... I found that if I readjusted the valves loose it would fire that cyl. 

The valve lash spec by engbldr on this 261C cam is I=..007" - E=.009" - that is one of the tightest valve lash specs I've seen for a 22 cam.  Adjusting the valve lash loose should *effectively* reduce designed overlap at spec'd valve lash.  I'll try 9 and 11 this afternoon - after I do some testing on the injector connector.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Mar 31, 2017, 08:23:52 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #692 on: Mar 31, 2017, 03:29:12 AM »

The cam grinds that I have received from EB have bin imprecise.


In my early days I worked in the engineering department for the Flight Test Division at Hughes Aircraft Company in Culver City, CA.  The amount and level of quality control, quality assurance, and quality testing was amazing!

I have no idea how many camshafts or heads engbldr sells.. but I wonder when the last time Tod or Ted did a quality assurance check and specs check on their camshafts after receiving them from their supplier?  Or would they do a check after installing a camshaft and building their RV head?

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Mar 31, 2017, 03:47:18 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #693 on: Mar 31, 2017, 03:37:02 AM »
... It's all going to work out. 

Yeah... it's probably just a bad connector/connection on #1 injector.... *fingers crossed*  :crossed: :D

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

H8PVMNT

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #694 on: Mar 31, 2017, 07:40:04 AM »
I may be converting to a carb'd engine!  Let me know if you need to sell it. .... just think'n.  :driving:

Gnarls.  :gap:

I'm positive you will figure out your issue in the next page or so of this thread and end up loving your 22re for yeas to come.  If you do end up wanting a carb 22R manifold I will trade you for a pound of nice coffee beans :).
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Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #695 on: Mar 31, 2017, 08:56:20 AM »
I'm positive you will figure out your issue in the next page or so of this thread and end up loving your 22re for yeas to come.  If you do end up wanting a carb 22R manifold I will trade you for a pound of nice coffee beans :).

Hey H8PVMNT,


Thanks for the positivity.

The intake manifold for coffee beans....

So...

1 - you are being very generous.  :beerchug:

2- coffee beans in Montana are extremely rare and very expensive.  :o

3- The manifold may or may not work.  ::)

4-  You have so many 22R intake manifolds and limited space you need to get rid of some. :gap:

OR.... you want another "tweaker" pal running a carb'd engine. :dancing:

Gnarls. :thumbs:
« Last Edit: Mar 31, 2017, 09:05:41 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #696 on: Mar 31, 2017, 09:15:36 AM »
Less Talk and more fixing!  :red_eyes:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #697 on: Mar 31, 2017, 10:20:56 AM »
Less Talk and more fixing!  :red_eyes:

Okie Dokie Smokie... I will be all over my engine like a duck-on-a-bug at about 4:48pm today!!!   :thumbs:

Gnarls. :usa:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #698 on: Mar 31, 2017, 05:08:35 PM »
:haha:  :)bestgen4runner

Holy crapity!!  That's why my engines have always ran like a raped-ape!!!!  :yikes:

Gnarls.  :willynilly:

I can't tell if your reaction is an epiphany of past sins or you're thinking Chris is wrong because your engines have performed so well.
1989 4Runner: Dual Ultimate (Inchworm front & Marlin 4.70 rear), Marlin Twin Stick, 1200-lb clutch, 4.88 R&P, Aussie Front, Detroit rear, 30-spline Longs, Long hub gears, ARP hub and knuckle studs & 35x12.50 Cooper STT PRO tires.  Marlin rear bumper & sliders.  FROR front bumper.  SAS with Alcan springs & Rancho 9000XL shocks.  Budbuilt Bolt-on traction bar.  Custom Interior Cage by Those Guys Rod and Customs.

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Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #700 on: Mar 31, 2017, 06:35:20 PM »
https://www.yotatech.com/f116/3-noid-light-22re-270857/ I cheap noid light

Hi ovrarok,

Yes, I saw that.  It's a cool trick.  I just don't want to spend the time chasing parts and putting it together.... I'm too lazy.

I will justify my purchase of a NOID kit by using MY labor at "no out of pocket" cost to rebuild my engine.  That's how I have justified buying thousands of $$$ worth of "tools" over many years.

For example... I could have paid my tranny shop and extra $200 to remove and re-install my 5-speed when I had them rebuild it.  Instead I bought a $50 tranny jack from Harbor Freight and removed it and re-installed it myself.

I saved $150 and I got a new tranny jack to add to my garage "tools".  :thumbs:

Thank you for the input.  :)

Gnarls.  :D
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #701 on: Mar 31, 2017, 06:40:28 PM »
I can't tell if your reaction is an epiphany of past sins or you're thinking Chris is wrong because your engines have performed so well.

Is he NOT joking about adjusting the valve lash at the bottom of the base circle of the camshaft?

And, most of my engines have performed very well to extraordinarily well.... so I must be doing something right.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #702 on: Apr 01, 2017, 06:59:59 AM »
UPDATE 4-1-17

Problem SOLVED!!

My next door neighbor has been bugging me to buy my truck for several years.

Yesterday, he said: "How much would it take?"

I said:  "It's worth $10,000, but for you I will sell it for $9,000!"..... so to my utter shock 'n awe... he said: "I'll have the cash for you night!"  :yikes:

So, now what do I do?  :dunno:

Gnarls. :disturbed:

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #703 on: Apr 01, 2017, 07:27:14 AM »
$9000 can buy a running truck.  Or a good used one, and a rebuilt motor.
Miss ya Dean (4THEWKN) & Kyle (KYOTA)!!

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Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #704 on: Apr 01, 2017, 11:43:32 AM »
$9000 can buy a running truck.  Or a good used one, and a rebuilt motor.

So my truck isn't worth $9,000?  :dunno:

Gnarls. :-\
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #705 on: Apr 01, 2017, 12:17:28 PM »
"April Fool's", joke perhaps?
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The money pit '87 Supra resto/mod

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #706 on: Apr 01, 2017, 12:36:21 PM »
"April Fool's", joke perhaps?

Heheheheheh..... APRIL FOOLS!!!  :gap: :moon:


Gnarls. :ha_ha:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #707 on: Apr 01, 2017, 01:00:02 PM »
Less Talk and More fixing! 2nd request.  :hammer:
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
Mudder [08:28 PM]:   not try to be a jerk, but are you serious bestgen?
Prismo [06:11 PM]:   Done, time to relax or as Bestgen says....FREEDOM!
HogCanyonHopper [06:54 PM]:   I like my little rod. it gets the job done
H8PVMNT [03:30 PM]: I can go both ways.

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #708 on: Apr 01, 2017, 01:12:51 PM »
Less Talk and More fixing! 2nd request.  :hammer:

Talking = Fixing X Fixing = Talking

Basic equation for online forum Bravo Sierra.  :moon:

Gnarls.  :burnout:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #709 on: Apr 01, 2017, 07:24:57 PM »
UPDATE 4-1-17 PM

Experience is the Mother of education!  And, I don’t have much with my Toyota trucks…. Just haven’t had to “work” on them much.

I believe I have uncovered the mystery misfire.

It looks like one of the metal bifurcated contacts inside the injector connector is broken off… so only one contact on the injector connector was connected to the two injector teminals.

The ohms tested on the connector at 1.9 (FSM says 1.5 to 3.0 ohms) – so I assume there is no issue, at this point, with the wires inside the harness.

I don’t think there is enough room to get the #1 injector connector off the injector without removing the thermostat housing, TPS, and hoses.  The length of the pigtail is not long enough to connect the Noid light on it anyway… so the Noid light test using the one in the kit I bought is useless for this test.  The one that ovrarok linked would work, because you could make the length of the wires what you need.  Once you get a Noid light connected, you would still have to re-install the thermostat housing, TPS, and hoses so you could start the engine and pulse the injector connector with the Noid light plugged in.  So in my opinion, the Noid light test for this 22RE would not be practical.

So what I have learned knowing what I know NOW….

If I could do a rewind on this project and before dropping in the engine…

1 – I would have replaced all of the injector connectors BEFORE installing the intake manifold and chamber and t-body.  Even if they all looked good, I would have taken the time to cut, solder, heat shrink, and test the new connectors – it is just not worth the hassle of those 31 year old brittle connectors failing.

2 – I would have ohm checked all the new injector connectors to make sure there is NO problem with the wiring in the harness.

3 – I would NOT have purchased the Noid light kit – for this diagnosis.

So for those of you who may read this and do a rebuild, or any kind of maintenance where you have to pull the injector connectors on an 20 or 30 year old 22R-E or 22R-TE, if you don’t replace the injector connectors, you should visually check the contacts inside each connector, then ohm check each one – BEFORE installing the chamber and throttle body on the engine.

You can see in the photo that the plastic housing is broken and the wire spring grooves are completely missing.  You can also see where the contact is broken off.

I believe there is enough room so I can cut and solder on a new connector and then ohm check it.

And, while I have the TPS off, I will replace the two stock little screws with allen screws!! That bottom one is almost impossible to get to!!!

I’ll post up photos when I’m finished.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Apr 02, 2017, 02:35:27 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

emsvitil

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #710 on: Apr 01, 2017, 08:02:34 PM »
 :crossed:
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #711 on: Apr 01, 2017, 08:36:00 PM »
New injector plugs are $6.99 at Oreily's or $4.44 on Rockauto.  I would go with a walk in store, so you know they will fit. 


I would send you my spare harness, but its for 1988, and thats the one year they had to be different. 



I would pull the upper intake, and unplug the injectors, and check them all, and replace.  Then check resistance in the wires.  Put it all back together, and should take care of the issue. 
Miss ya Dean (4THEWKN) & Kyle (KYOTA)!!

4THEWKN~9/17/2006  If it wasn't for you, I'd be driving something other than a Toyota!

My build up ~ project Kilchis! http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=32961.0
Zak's truck build ~ http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=64319.0;topicseen

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #712 on: Apr 02, 2017, 03:08:54 AM »
New injector plugs are $6.99 at Oreily's or $4.44 on Rockauto.  I would go with a walk in store, so you know they will fit. 


I would send you my spare harness, but its for 1988, and thats the one year they had to be different. 



I would pull the upper intake, and unplug the injectors, and check them all, and replace.  Then check resistance in the wires.  Put it all back together, and should take care of the issue. 

Hi Cheesemaker,

Yes, I'm going to buy a pig tail connector this morning at one of my local parts stores.... if they have one in stock. It always seemed strange that these auto parts stores don't carry much stock for the 22s... one of THE most popular globally distributed engines ever built and STILL running!!

I very much appreciate the offer on your wire harness.  You might consider holding on to that if you need it as a spare or trading or selling it when you need to.... they appear to be rare and not being manufactured as a direct replacement.  And, as I mentioned, the idea of replacing an entire wire harness would seem like a bad nightmare to me.

I agree that I SHOULD pull the chamber and replace them, BUT... I've put so much time into assembly that I will just replace the #1 connector, at this point, and fire the engine to finish the break-in.  Now that I know of the potential connector issues, I will be on alert.

Thanks for the input.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Apr 02, 2017, 03:28:04 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #713 on: Apr 02, 2017, 03:29:13 AM »
:crossed:

10-4 on fingers crossed!!  :beerchug:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #714 on: Apr 02, 2017, 05:46:27 AM »
Hey :)bestgen4runner,

So you posted this, I assume just jokingly.  :greengrin:

*quote* Is it wrong for Me to enjoy the blind leading the blind.   
Here is some advice. Go back to basics, what does it take to fire a cylinder?
We have been over this before.
#1
#2
#3
#4
Fill in the blanks. *unquote*


The blind is me.  To me there was no one leading the blind, just offering suggestions and double checking common mistakes, right?  :beerchug:

By that post I had already established that:

#1 – the #1 cylinder had spark
#2  - the #1 cylinder had sufficient compression
#3 – the engine started so it had enough starting RPM
#4 – So…#1 cylinder was most likely not getting enough fuel or too much fuel

So at that point we were passed “going back to basics” , right?  :psss:

Then you posted:

*Quote*  Try adjusting all the valves again making sure each valve is adjusted when you are on the back side of the cam lobe. This exact same thing happended to me and is why I will never use a crap EB cam again.
poor cam grind is likely your problem. If you adjust it on the back side of each lobe it will run on all 4 cyl. *Unquote*

*quote*  Man oh man.
There is a peak to the lobe (the tallest part)
You should be adjusting each valve on the back side (the complete opposite of the peak)
This is how it's been done for years. *unquote*

Please explain how you adjusted the valve lash by setting the valve lash spec on bottom of the cam lobe at the base circle of the camshaft?  :dunno:

So why would a gas soaked spark plug NOT fire the mixture….???

I suspect, and just my weird thinking, the reason that when I immediately pulled the plugs after first firing the engine, and noted that 2, 3, and 4 were firing, and #1 was not, but seemed wet, smelled like gas, and dried quickly in the air – is because the injector plunger was getting just enough fuel pressure to slightly dribble gas into the chamber.  Because the injector was not firing, the fuel was not atomized enough to actually combust with a proper A/F mixture.  :dunno:

Gnarls. :spin:
« Last Edit: Apr 02, 2017, 06:06:20 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X [OP]

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #715 on: Apr 02, 2017, 06:27:52 PM »
UPDATE:  4-2-17 PM

AutoZone had 1 injector connector in stock.  I cut the old injector connector off, soldered it on and sealed solder joints with shrink tube.

That fixed the no-fire on cylinder #1.

The engine only had about 20 minutes of run time since initial firing.  I took it for very short test run, about 1/2 mile.  It had an unexpected miss from idle to about 3,000 RPM and slight blubber in the exhaust on deceleration.

Back in the garage I pulled the spark plugs and they looked fine.  I timed the ignition and took it for a longer test to get more gas, then took in for a longer drive on the back roads.  I kept it under 55 MPH and varied the speed.  By about 10 miles the miss went away, and it had better throttle response - but it did not seem to be as perky as I thought it should and it didn’t feel smooth.  After about 20 miles I tach’d it to 4000 several times in 1st and 2nd.   At about 40 miles I drove down the freeway 4 miles at 65 MPH and the truck started vibrating badly.  I’m not sure what the cause is… maybe the tires have flat spots because it sat for over 4 years.  I noticed a sharp clank at clutch start, and when I backed up into the garage.  So now the engine has about 45 miles on it.

I need to find the clank, fix the fuel gauge, and have Discount Tires check out the tires.  Then I can take it for longer drive to get some miles on it.

I don’t see any leaks!  It starts up and idles nice.

I feel much better that its running, but it does have a little more noise than I think it should have.  It doesn’t sound like rockers or loose valve lash.  It’s more like a clunk.  I don’t like the sound.

So I’ve got some things to fix before I will start driving it.

In the Noid Light Kit, the light for the 1986 22RE is one I circled in yellow..... Bosch2.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Apr 03, 2017, 04:52:52 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

fireitup

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #716 on: Apr 02, 2017, 06:46:23 PM »
Here's to progress! :beerchug: Nice work.

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82 Pickup - 22R : OME NitroChargers/Springs : Timing Chain @ 180K

fireitup

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #717 on: Apr 02, 2017, 06:58:56 PM »
Oh and on the note about your tires... My 82 has been sitting for about a year (various reasons for that), and the tires developed a baaaad case of dry rot. Be careful with stagnant tires!

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82 Pickup - 22R : OME NitroChargers/Springs : Timing Chain @ 180K

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #718 on: Apr 02, 2017, 08:07:30 PM »
Probably tires, but not flat spot.   Flat spots go away once tires warm up.     Either balance weight (hopefully) or see above....

Misfire might be another iffy connector.

Clunk: driveshaft splines loose (did you relube shaft?),   loose bolts, or u-joint bad.

As for perky,  the engine has more friction now (breakin) so you lose some there; and the ECU is still learning the new setup.....
Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

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Re: Gnarly4X's 22RE Rebuild
« Reply #719 on: Apr 02, 2017, 08:08:11 PM »
 :beerchug: glad you got it running
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