Keeping big tires off the trails

[crazykooter]

I guess this is sort of a rant but I was talking to a buddy bout a week ago and we were discussing how the trails are getting chewed up bad by the large tires people keeping running.  Dont get me wrong there is some places which really need larger tires like the hammers.  The main complaint we have is trails such as the con, fordyce and high lakes.  These trails use to be perfect for 35"s.  Now its getting to the point were 35"s are just to small.  If we really want to cont. to have these trails in the future we as a 4 wheeling community need to take responsibility for the erosion of the trails.  Larger tires eat away at the trail much faster.  I suppose I may be a minority on this but I felt like I should post something about it.  Big tires have their place but imo its not on the beautiful trails we want to have around for years to come. 

[chim]

I see your point.... But I still love bigger tires... 36,37.. 38...

[IronClad]

Actually larger tires have less contact pressure than smaller tires so in essence they do less damage. also most larger tires will just walk up obstical's where as smaller tires will struggle and cause more damage.. so in all honesty a larger tire is the way to go.

[crazykooter]

Thats in theory but if drivers were so careful to not spin and move rocks as they go then yes thats true.  All I can tell you is a 40" swamper eats away at the landscape a lot faster then a 35" swamper.  The tires are wider and even more so when aired down.  The full width axles like D60s are even more harmful to the trail since they carve wider paths.  I know this subject is debatable and if it wasnt for person ell experience I wouldnt have posted this.

[IronClad]

im guessing somthing got you bent at the highlakes.. you know the snow up there does more trail damage at morris than vehicles?

[crazykooter]

Nothing at high lakes. Havent been up there in some time.  My trip got canceled again.  Just talking with a long time wheeler friend brought this up. 
As for the winter erosion, sure the snow melt doesnt help.  I guess im a little too old school.  Dont get me wrong I dont want people to stop wheeling.  Far from it.  I want to be able to wheel for a long time coming.     

[IronClad]

Tires are the least of your worries if you want keep trails open then, What needs to be taken care of are the people go off the trails, Leave their poop/trash/whatever all over the place and generally just have a high disrespect for the place.

On saturday i saw more small tire under equiped rigs tearing up the trail over me and my friends with our 40" plus just crawling and walking up everything with very little spin if ever. Never once touched a shrub or dug a hole Where as the little toyotas and jeeps spinnin the hell out of their 35's and under tryin to get up stuff.

Its incredibly situational but to blatantly say big tires are what the problem is.. is well really ignorant when its proven they do less damage and saying because they are wider and usually have wider axles they carve the trail wider... how so ? i can see if someone is being dumb and going off the trail then sure. But if you are staying on the trail i fail to see how this is so.

[will.the.thrill]

Sorry crazykooter, I gotta side with IronClad on this one. I don't think tires are the problem at all, it's the driver's right foot and attitude that determine whats going on as far as erosion and keeping the trails open.

IIRC, the Rubicon trail is 50' wide (25' each way from centerline?) according to the books, so dana 60s don't even come close to exceeding that.

Also, a case for big tires can be made in that the big tires keeps the axle higher off the ground and less likely to puke oil everywhere since it's less likely to get bashed on rocks.

Anyways, I'm all for doing all I can to keep the trail open, clean up trash, spills, etc, and fill in ruts and do errosion prevention work.

I run 35s and probably will for quite awhile since I want to keep yota axles and minimize down time from breaking stuff...person preference.

$0.02

[GNasty 82]

I'm going to have to agree with will and ironclad, it's not the big tires that are the problem, it's the big right foot that cause problems.

Case in point:
There's this trail that I have been going down for 4+ years now to get to my favorite fishing spot.  When I first started going down this trail, I could go through every water hole in the trail in a stock 2wd open diff S10 with street tires w/o spinning, mainly b/c the holes were hard bottom.  However, the trail has gotten worse over there years due to people coming in and tearing it up with built rigs by stomping the pedal in 2wd and now I can't even get through the first hole with 33" BFG MTs b/c my diffs botttom out before I can make it half way through.  And it's not as if I'm just barely stuck, when the front diff bottoms, both front wheels can be turned by hand.  I actually dove down in the puddle and felt a good 2" between the bottom of each of my front tires and the ground.  Do I blame the rig with the large tires, heck no.  I blame the guy who just got in there and tore it up unnecessarily.

Anyway, that's my rant

[kneedownnate]

I'd think if a boulder is going to move that easily, a small tired rig sliding into it because it can't make an obstacle would move it further than a spinning tire.

IC is right, snow and runoff are far more damaging than big tires.  Trails will change no matter what.

[IronClad]

IC is right, snow and runoff are far more damaging than big tires.  Trails will change no matter what.

You cant stop mother nature no matter how hard you try.

[rockin86runner]

you defently cant stop what mother nature dose. but eater big or smaller tires its all the driver i know people with 33s at just like to pedal to the metal on the trails and same with 40s its all the driver

[bleakhorizon]

im sorry.... (i run 33's at the moment)..... this Topic is retarded....        

big tires do more damage ?....

wide tires do even more damage (not to mention low psi) ?....

fullsize axles are EVEN more destructive ?...  

.......some times i can just give up on humanity.  

[WHITE_TRASH]

Dumb drivers and open diffs do more damage than a whole fleet of rigs with 44" boggers will ever do.  Anyone that argues that is refawkingtarded and shortsided.

[Rocksurfer]

Larger tires make traversing terrain easier and cause less damage as do lockers proper gearing and so on. I think the true culprit is going to be time, weather and just plain erosion. I still run 33's or 35's and have had no issues with bigger tires creating issues for me. If it is becoming necessary to get bigger tires it the erosion factor more than anything.

[Volcom]

I completely disagree with you.  Title should read - "Keep heavy right footed drivers off of trails" or "Keep open differentials off of trails"

[Rocksnail]

IC is right. larger tires arnt the problem. They may be taller but there not all wider. when i ran 33s i used a 13.5 wide tire. now on 4ds im still using a 13.5 tire. And as far as full size axles making the trail wider. thats all bull. You have to think that people wheel full size rigs all the time. In fact i would have to say people have been wheeling full size rigs for as long as they have been made. wich is just as long or longer  as a jeep or yota. mother nature and the skinny peddle are what tear up are trails. just my 2 cents.

[TacoRunner]

Actually larger tires have less contact pressure than smaller tires so in essence they do less damage. also most larger tires will just walk up obstical's where as smaller tires will struggle and cause more damage.. so in all honesty a larger tire is the way to go.

Thats in theory but if drivers were so careful to not spin and move rocks as they go then yes thats true.  All I can tell you is a 40" swamper eats away at the landscape a lot faster then a 35" swamper.  The tires are wider and even more so when aired down.  The full width axles like D60s are even more harmful to the trail since they carve wider paths.  I know this subject is debatable and if it wasnt for person ell experience I wouldnt have posted this.

Iron Clad is right,     LEARN TO DRIVE is the anwser.

[joey0712]

You can tear up trails with a quad if you try hard enough... It comes down to your right hoof. I wheel with guys with 35 and open front that dig holes bigger then i EVER have with 40s. Just learn how to pick lines and CRAWL... No need to pin it.

[H8PVMNT]

My theorey:  I think the overall trend to big huge rubber has created a few more gaps in driver skills and a general lack of appreciation of learning how to take a good line.  So, if this is the case I could see how big tires could lead to more dumb drivers taking new stupid lines, which could in turn create more trail damage and new erosion, etc.  When we get bigger and better equipment we have to look further and push it harder to feel challenged.  Still though the fact of the matter is that you can choose to drive dumb and tear it up or you can choose to drive responsibly regardless of tire size.

Another fact:  Over the last 4 or 5 years stupid driving has become ALOT more popular.  It is now considered really cool to flop, roll or destroy your rig.  A buddy of mine took a stupid line off a loose climb, locked his brakes and rolled his jeep like 12 times down the hill.  We thought he was dead. It was that bad.  In the group we were in though, he was the hero of the day for it.  Back in the day we all would have been telling him not to take chances like that, he was lucky to be alive, etc. but these guys pretty much thought it was awesome.





There needs to be more good driving encouraged in our sport or we will come across to the allready ill-informed joe public as a bunch of jackasses who just want to tear it up, break our crap and leave puddles of fluids all over the woods.  The overall image of rock crawling/trail riding as a sport has gone down hill.  I partially blame the move of the hard core competitions to "rock racing".  I mean it's cool and all, I'm not meaning to dis it in general, (just look at the technology that has trickled down from it! )but the only reason it went that way at all is to package the sport into a more marketable crowd pleaser that can be fit into an arena for spectators with big smashing, crashing and speed. I think it's kind of become mickey mouse now, like monster trucks.  Used to be you would leave a good rock crawling comp and say "man that one guy was a badass driver, can't beleived he pulled that off", now the jughead spectators walk out of the grand stands saying "duh, did you see that front end fly off!?  I wish they would break more, it's cool!" or, "that was some huge air that one dude had... but when are the tractor pulls?"

[TacoRunner]

My theorey:  I think the overall trend to big huge rubber has created a few more gaps in driver skills and a general lack of appreciation of learning how to take a good line.  So, if this is the case I could see how big tires could lead to more dumb drivers taking new stupid lines, which could in turn create more trail damage and new erosion, etc.  When we get bigger and better equipment we have to look further and push it harder to feel challenged.  Still though the fact of the matter is that you can choose to drive dumb and tear it up or you can choose to drive responsibly regardless of tire size.

Another fact:  Over the last 4 or 5 years stupid driving has become ALOT more popular.  It is now considered really cool to flop, roll or destroy your rig.  A buddy of mine took a stupid line off a loose climb, locked his brakes and rolled his jeep like 12 times down the hill.  We thought he was dead. It was that bad.  In the group we were in though, he was the hero of the day for it.  Back in the day we all would have been telling him not to take chances like that, he was lucky to be alive, etc. but these guys pretty much thought it was awesome.

There needs to be more good driving encouraged in our sport or we will come across to the allready ill-informed joe public as a bunch of jackasses who just want to tear it up, break our crap and leave puddles of fluids all over the woods.  The overall image of rock crawling/trail riding as a sport has gone down hill.  I partially blame the move of the hard core competitions to "rock racing".  I mean it's cool and all, I'm not meaning to dis it in general, (just look at the technology that has trickled down from it! )but the only reason it went that way at all is to package the sport into a more marketable crowd pleaser that can be fit into an arena for spectators with big smashing, crashing and speed. I think it's kind of become mickey mouse now, like monster trucks.  Used to be you would leave a good rock crawling comp and say "man that one guy was a badass driver, can't beleived he pulled that off", now the jughead spectators walk out of the grand stands saying "duh, did you see that front end fly off!?  I wish they would break more, it's cool!" or, "that was some huge air that one dude had... but when are the tractor pulls?"

Well put.

[twistedtoy92]

Its not the meats, its the meat heads! I agree with IC, Volcom, and H8PVMNT.....

[Poser]

I guess this is sort of a rant but I was talking to a buddy bout a week ago and we were discussing how the trails are getting chewed up bad by the large tires people keeping running.  Dont get me wrong there is some places which really need larger tires like the hammers.  The main complaint we have is trails such as the con, fordyce and high lakes.  These trails use to be perfect for 35"s.  Now its getting to the point were 35"s are just to small.  If we really want to cont. to have these trails in the future we as a 4 wheeling community need to take responsibility for the erosion of the trails.  Larger tires eat away at the trail much faster.  I suppose I may be a minority on this but I felt like I should post something about it.  Big tires have their place but imo its not on the beautiful trails we want to have around for years to come.

Why are you running 35" tires?

33" tires will take you everywhere you should go.

[iNfErNaL]

im sorry.... (i run 33's at the moment)..... this Topic is retarded....        

big tires do more damage ?....

wide tires do even more damage (not to mention low psi) ?....

fullsize axles are EVEN more destructive ?...  

.......some times i can just give up on humanity.  

Thank you , I couldn't agree with you more on this . I actually sat here for a few minutes trying to put my thoughts into a reply without coming off as an ass , but this thread is kinda pointless and ignorant     

[dizzydevil]

i live in so cal about 30 min from the hammers and there is a club down this way (i will not name them) that has the same theory, that big tires are bad and trails (they are talking about the hammers) should be able to be run on 35's. Sorry, this is not the way it works. no matter what tire you run you are creating some sort of damage to the environment. That is why it is so important to pack out what you bring in, organize clean trail cleanups (clubs) or participate in local clean ups around your regular wheeling spots. wether you are on 54" boggers or a unicycle, you are doing some sort of damage, compared to mother nature it is insignificant. The key is to do your best to clean up your mess and take care of the few trails that we still have. the difference between the damage done by a 35 or a 40 is minor at best.

[-Matt-]

Thank you , I couldn't agree with you more on this . I actually sat here for a few minutes trying to put my thoughts into a reply without coming off as an ass , but this thread is kinda pointless and ignorant    

ya i completely agree with infernal

I could also just as easily start a thread and say how small tires are bad for our trails because people keep having to making bypasses. most of its about how responsible you are, your ability to drive, knowing limits and knowing when to let off.

[bleakhorizon]

i would love to see this post on the PBB  ...... OMG it would end BAD

[yotatough]

Just like everyone else has said, its the driver not the tire.     x100000000000

[kneedownnate]

but this thread is kinda pointless and ignorant    

When are you gonna hear it again... I fully agree with infernal 

[WHITE_TRASH]

Why are you running 35" tires?

33" tires will take you everywhere you should go.

According to some the only place we should be going is to work so we can contribute more money to the .gov to hand out to those that don't work.  That don't make them any more right than you thinking 33's are the biggest tire needed.  It's all subjective and some of the places I wheel anything under 38's and you can't do shiat but sit and watch.