Keeping big tires off the trails

[Steve_925]

I've nearly had my limit with all the fighting we have to do in order to use PUBLIC land.  All the greenie bastards have twisted things into such a contortion that it is nearly impossible to go out and enjoy the trails at all let alone in a vehicle.

Much more and I'm going rogue.. I don't need YOUR permission to wheel, I don't need THEIR permission either.  Keep the trails as clean as you found them and enjoy.  "When wheeling is outlawed only outlaws will wheel"  Fact is I'll still be wheeling.

You can go out and enjoy nature and eat granola in a prius...  No need for 4 wheel drive at all if that's all you want to do.  Some of us do go wheeling in order to "get it" on big rocks as well as to cruise the trails.  No we don't need to have the big dumb tires for the trails but when you get to the rocks up here you simply can not do the hardest/most fun lines on anything smaller than 37's period.  Yes you can play on the smaller sections but you won't be able to do the "good" stuff.

agreed. i go out to wheel, i do enjoy enjoying the trail but im there to wheel anything and everything i can. i love the rubicon, fordyce, etc. but if couldnt wheel them you would never see me there again. and as far as the big tire thing

[WHITE_TRASH]

Whatever, lets go wheeling....

[IronClad]

DUDE that thing is fawsome

[WHITE_TRASH]

DUDE that thing is fawsome

Nope unpossible, it is too wide, has too long of wheelbase and too large of tires to be fawesome... 

[IronClad]

Nope unpossible, it is too wide, has too long of wheelbase and too large of tires to be fawesome... 

screw the haters they dont know what they are talking about!

[kneedownnate]

DUDE that thing is fawsome

Agreed, my favorite incarnation so far!

[Rocksurfer]

WT that thing isn't going to tread very lightly

[WHITE_TRASH]

WT that thing isn't going to tread very lightly

Oh contrare monfrare.....  Big fat tires at 2 psi and a severe lack of HP to spin them means I'll be treading very lightly. 

[crazykooter]

I know I might make enemies by saying this but the just by the responses of late to this thread only show why I consider my point even stronger.  If you cant be mature enough to respect others opinions without being rude and insulting then I think your going to treat the trails in the same manor.  You can say what you want and be as rude and disrespectful as you want.  The truth is this type of attitude is why I feel like bigger tires AND the drivers who use them to be a problem on the trails. 
Seabass your post falls right there with them with your response.  If you would have read my post closer you would have seen that I was talking about the bigger tires and the damage they can do when the drivers dont seem to care.   As a response to the damage I did ?  Yes a few rocks got stack when I got stuck and sure I scraped a few rocks but I stayed on the trail and tried very hard to tread lightly.   Heck you did just as much rock slamming as I did even with your large tires.   Really there isnt a point to responding to this thread any longer since very few want to take it seriously.  The end joke is it only takes a few to ruin it for all of us.

[seabass]

the few...do the damage.......has nothing to do with tire size, next it will be V8s or buggies, see?
yes this thread is a joke
you don't get it, sorry.

I know I might make enemies by saying this but the just by the responses of late to this thread only show why I consider my point even stronger.  If you cant be mature enough to respect others opinions without being rude and insulting then I think your going to treat the trails in the same manor.  You can say what you want and be as rude and disrespectful as you want.  The truth is this type of attitude is why I feel like bigger tires AND the drivers who use them to be a problem on the trails. 
Seabass your post falls right there with them with your response.  If you would have read my post closer you would have seen that I was talking about the bigger tires and the damage they can do when the drivers dont seem to care.   As a response to the damage I did ?  Yes a few rocks got stack when I got stuck and sure I scraped a few rocks but I stayed on the trail and tried very hard to tread lightly.   Heck you did just as much rock slamming as I did even with your large tires.   Really there isnt a point to responding to this thread any longer since very few want to take it seriously.  The end joke is it only takes a few to ruin it for all of us.

[runr-meech]

                   :bull crap:       

[IronClad]

I know I might make enemies by saying this but the just by the responses of late to this thread only show why I consider my point even stronger.  If you cant be mature enough to respect others opinions without being rude and insulting then I think your going to treat the trails in the same manor.  You can say what you want and be as rude and disrespectful as you want.  The truth is this type of attitude is why I feel like bigger tires AND the drivers who use them to be a problem on the trails.  
Seabass your post falls right there with them with your response.  If you would have read my post closer you would have seen that I was talking about the bigger tires and the damage they can do when the drivers dont seem to care.   As a response to the damage I did ?  Yes a few rocks got stack when I got stuck and sure I scraped a few rocks but I stayed on the trail and tried very hard to tread lightly.   Heck you did just as much rock slamming as I did even with your large tires.   Really there isnt a point to responding to this thread any longer since very few want to take it seriously.  The end joke is it only takes a few to ruin it for all of us.

then why did you come off in your first post that all drivers regardless of how they do drive with large tires and/or fullwidth destroy the trail more than small tires perriod? Honestly you're back peddling and changing what you mean alot grabbing at any little excuse to try and validate your opinion.

[WHITE_TRASH]

So are you catty ass women done whining about useless crap and infighting guaranteeing victory to the greenie bastards that want to kick humans off of our own lands or are you going to continue to try and hand victory to them on a silver platter?  The choice is yours to make, either STFU, suck it up and make it work together or just stop wheeling completely as you aren't doing us any good anyway.

A guy on a local forum has a terrific sig line:  "While we argue about dumb stuff our wheeling trails are being closed by hikers"

[seabass]

don't get all uptight
this thread means nothing
showing up at meeting on trails or supporting those that do does!
I don't know how many of these "KEEP TRAIL OPEN" groups I donate my products too, but at least 3 different ones this year, might be more I forget
FOTR
Marlins MCR9, don't remember who gets that raffle $$
Cantina for con, week before MCR9

So are you catty ass women done whining about useless crap and infighting guaranteeing victory to the greenie b*stds that want to kick humans off of our own lands or are you going to continue to try and hand victory to them on a silver platter?  The choice is yours to make, either STFU, suck it up and make it work together or just stop wheeling completely as you aren't doing us any good anyway.

A guy on a local forum has a terrific sig line:  "While we argue about dumb stuff our wheeling trails are being closed by hikers"

[WHITE_TRASH]

Seabass don't you have some panels to build or something? :flipoff2:

I know you donate to raffles and the like and I thank you for your efforts.  I'm just pointing out that arguing does nothing for us but maybe stroke a few ego's and that isn't moving forward.

[seabass]

I know I know, lol

yes i have a ton of panels to make ++++ all the ones I'm bringing to MCR9......posting keeps me from going bat shirt crazy

Seabass don't you have some panels to build or something? :flipoff2:

I know you donate to raffles and the like and I thank you for your efforts.  I'm just pointing out that arguing does nothing for us but maybe stroke a few ego's and that isn't moving forward.

[kneedownnate]

Agreed, I see no other reason for posts like this than to say "hey look everybody, I care!", which is mooted when pointed out that the op has torn up trails with their small tires.

[Pat]

yep.. if wheeled with care the larger the tire the less the impact in almost all cases cases, that being said if the person is a careless asshat he can do more damage faster, so as stated it is really all about the driver. And yes I got to see the original poster displace more rocks then I have seen in a long time with his 31's and lack of being prepared.. there have been many folks in this thread say in a calm rational manner what their opinion is and also their opinion on the original posters thoughts.. then the backpedaling.. If you don't want folks to disagree with you I suggest you don't post in a public forum

[crazykooter]

I guess this is sort of a rant but I was talking to a buddy bout a week ago and we were discussing how the trails are getting chewed up bad by the large tires people keeping running.  Dont get me wrong there is some places which really need larger tires like the hammers.  The main complaint we have is trails such as the con, fordyce and high lakes.  These trails use to be perfect for 35"s.  Now its getting to the point were 35"s are just to small.  If we really want to cont. to have these trails in the future we as a 4 wheeling community need to take responsibility for the erosion of the trails.  Larger tires eat away at the trail much faster.  I suppose I may be a minority on this but I felt like I should post something about it.  Big tires have their place but imo its not on the beautiful trails we want to have around for years to come. 

Thats in theory but if drivers were so careful to not spin and move rocks as they go then yes thats true.  All I can tell you is a 40" swamper eats away at the landscape a lot faster then a 35" swamper.  The tires are wider and even more so when aired down.  The full width axles like D60s are even more harmful to the trail since they carve wider paths.  I know this subject is debatable and if it wasnt for person ell experience I wouldnt have posted this.

Nothing at high lakes. Havent been up there in some time.  My trip got canceled again.  Just talking with a long time wheeler friend brought this up. 
As for the winter erosion, sure the snow melt doesnt help.  I guess im a little too old school.  Dont get me wrong I dont want people to stop wheeling.  Far from it.  I want to be able to wheel for a long time coming.     

See the thing is I really dont consider 37s big tires anymore.  They do have the same foot print as a 35 but aired down they give you that extra inch to clear your axles.  I guess when I ment big tires in my title I was referring to 40's and bigger.  I see 44+ on the trail a lot more every year which is just insane imo.  There is great wheeling spots like hammers were those tires are recommended but imo they just dont belong on the sierra trails.  If everyone who went out on the trail would follow the tread lightly slogan then I really wouldnt have an issue what so ever. 
  Hope I didnt come off as a tree huger,  I am far from it.  I believe there is a middle road which will appease a lot of the people out there.  Of course there will always be the ones that will never be happy.  Lets just have fun on these amazing trails we have here in cali.  If you want to hardcore rock crawl they have a great competition for that.  Calrocs is all yours. 
I will be seeing you guys in sept.   

I know I might make enemies by saying this but the just by the responses of late to this thread only show why I consider my point even stronger.  If you cant be mature enough to respect others opinions without being rude and insulting then I think your going to treat the trails in the same manor.  You can say what you want and be as rude and disrespectful as you want.  The truth is this type of attitude is why I feel like bigger tires AND the drivers who use them to be a problem on the trails. 
Seabass your post falls right there with them with your response.  If you would have read my post closer you would have seen that I was talking about the bigger tires and the damage they can do when the drivers dont seem to care.   As a response to the damage I did ?  Yes a few rocks got stack when I got stuck and sure I scraped a few rocks but I stayed on the trail and tried very hard to tread lightly.   Heck you did just as much rock slamming as I did even with your large tires.   Really there isnt a point to responding to this thread any longer since very few want to take it seriously.  The end joke is it only takes a few to ruin it for all of us.

Here are my post.......Show me where I back peddled ?  I dont see it. If ive missed it then please show me where.  I did clarify what I considered big tires. 

See the thing is I really dont consider 37s big tires anymore.  They do have the same foot print as a 35 but aired down they give you that extra inch to clear your axles.  I guess when I ment big tires in my title I was referring to 40's and bigger.

I will admit I wasnt prepared to see the trail in the state it was.  It had been a while since I was up there last.  There was 2 times in the whole trail were rocks were used to help me out of a tight spot.   One time was just one rock under a rear tire.   I did not spit out rocks or veer of the main trail.  I went slow and was as careful as I could be not to do harm.   I grew up on the Truckee river and respect the land.  Im sorry ive watch these trails get worse and worse and it rather pisses me off.  Im not saying we shouldnt be up there and never will.  It is our right to enjoy it. 
There isnt much else I can say to try and get my point across as all this thread has turned into is a mess.  I am just gonna leave this topic alone. 

[Pat]

[Jud]

If we really want to blame the biggest cause of erosion (since this tread is basically about the Rubicon) lets start a thread called "Keeping snow run off off the trails"

Your never going to win. Same different day, erosion is going to happen NO MATTER WHAT. If everybody still ran 35" tires maximum there would be the same amount of erosion (caused by tires) which again goes back to the responsibility of the driver. Again if I ran 42" tires vs. 33" tires I would tear the trail up way less because I am not a dumbass. I have to respect our trails, I would feel like because I know how much my parents out into the sport years ago. My father had a really active jeep club and they worked winch hills for Sierra Trek, spotted for Jeep Jambo, and all that jazzy stuff. My mom was also Secretary for Cal. 4wd Clubs in 1989-1992.

[WHITE_TRASH]

Erosion isn't all caused by nature or by careless wheelers.  It is caused by over usage.  One of the most popular wheeling area's was closed last year and it has caused the rest of the trail systems to get used a helluva lot more.  A perfect example came about on a local board when this exact discussion came about.  All the "old time jeepers" were blaming a group of trails that were rutted all to hell during the memorial day weekend on guys with big aggressive tires.  The funny part was there were NO rigs in that area on that weekend running anything over 33's.  It was just plain old overusage on a muddy trail simple as that.

Can we just go wheeling now?  I really don't have much else to do and i'll be ready to go.

[kneedownnate]

erosion is going to happen NO MATTER WHAT

X a billion! 

[Rocksurfer]

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a wiener, WT just hit the nail on the head. The cause for the increased trail damage is due to us having less and less trails to wheel on. Recently in the SBNF several trails have been closed due to rehabitation from forest fires. The remaining trails have suffered greatly due to this from over use. There are several trails that you never ran into another group all day, now you are just looking for elbow room.


Oh, and I went hiking yesterday and displaced a few rocks, I'm sorry. 

[GloNDark]

We were up on the con this past weekend. 2 of the rigs in our group on 38"s and 1 on 35"s. We had a smooth trip in and out. It was great. I myself hardly spun a tire.

Saturday we came down Old Sluice and came up behind a 3 Jeeps. 2 of which were on 37"s and the third was on 33"s. It was a mess. The Jeep on 33"s was all over the place, high on both sides of the trail in the bushes, digging holes all over the place, winch rocks out of his way and finally towards the bottom they got pissed off and turned out and went across the slabs, OFF TRAIL, and down towards Buck Island. We yelled at them to get back on the trail but got nothing. We saw them the next morning, they cut us off as we were heading up the slabs and proceeded to do the same thing. All the while the little jeep leaking brake fluid all over everything. Great job guys. The example above is only 1 of probably 100 stories I could tell about a smaller rig causing damage to the trail.

So yah, it's possible that a truck on bigger tires can cause more damage but to lump them all together and say that "All trucks with bigger tires cause the damage" is pretty absurd man. You're just as immature as you say the rest of the guys here are if you believe that. 

It's not the rig, it's not the size of the tires, it's not even the size of the motor, it's the size of the brain of the person driving the rig that causes the damage.

[H8PVMNT]

What is with the rude crap on the trail these days.  It used to be WAY different...


What we have here is a multi-generational, multi regional blood fest...  

We have to set some ground rules...  "no touching of the hair or the face"

[Jud]

We were up on the con this past weekend. 2 of the rigs in our group on 38"s and 1 on 35"s. We had a smooth trip in and out. It was great. I myself hardly spun a tire.

Saturday we came down Old Sluice and came up behind a 3 Jeeps. 2 of which were on 37"s and the third was on 33"s. It was a mess. The Jeep on 33"s was all over the place, high on both sides of the trail in the bushes, digging holes all over the place, winch rocks out of his way and finally towards the bottom they got pissed off and turned out and went across the slabs, OFF TRAIL, and down towards Buck Island. We yelled at them to get back on the trail but got nothing. We saw them the next morning, they cut us off as we were heading up the slabs and proceeded to do the same thing. All the while the little jeep leaking brake fluid all over everything. Great job guys. The example above is only 1 of probably 100 stories I could tell about a smaller rig causing damage to the trail.

So yah, it's possible that a truck on bigger tires can cause more damage but to lump them all together and say that "All trucks with bigger tires cause the damage" is pretty absurd man. You’re just as immature as you say the rest of the guys here are if you believe that. 

It's not the rig, it's not the size of the tires, it's not even the size of the motor, it's the size of the brain of the person driving the rig that causes the damage.

Prime example, I have encountered this more than a few times wether it be a jeeps, toyotas, broncos, cruisers or anything for that matter on the Con.

[GloNDark]

Prime example, I have encountered this more than a few times wether it be a jeeps, toyotas, broncos, cruisers or anything for that matter on the Con.

When these guys went off trail and then said they were going to "Winch the big rock" on old sluice, that's when we lost our cool.



I'm all for inexperienced drivers on the trail, and everyone getting to enjoy it, but come on man. If you can't make it thru the trail without winching every rock out of the way, stay home.

[Yota87Truck]

I think that it depends on many different variables what tires sizes should be run.  I currently have a truck lifted to run 33's.  It's a daily driver but for a dedicated off road rig I plan to run 35's to 37's because I want the tire size to be capable of running all nearby trails without too much ease or too much difficulty.  If I ever live in an area where I am near more difficult trails I might decide to build a rig with bigger tires.  I think a lot is personal preference and should be left to the choice of the driver.

[Steve_925]

Can we just go wheeling now?  I really don't have much else to do and i'll be ready to go.

x2