obama, freeking retard

[kneedownnate]

The Electoral College is, I believe, a group of voters that are to represent the voters in their state and not every state has an equal number of Electoral College votes.  California, for example, would have more than Vermont for obvious reasons, but the relationship between the Electoral College and the Popular Vote is not linear.  In this case the numbers I saw this morning for the popular vote, which is the figure that counts the common mans vote, was like 48% to 52%.

If memory serves correctly, one of the past elections had some controversy because the Electoral College went against the overall popular vote?  I don't think they have ever gone against their states popular vote, but the Electoral College isn't necessarily a perfect representation of the common mans vote.

You are correct on th electoral college.  It's an antiquated system that's of no real use for us anymore.  And the election of which you speak was when gore ran for president.  I, for one, am happy it worked out that way, because gore is a horrible horrible person!  Good old Ronny Reagan won his 2nd term with 525 of the 538 available electoral votes, but only had something like 56% of the popular vote.  That's probably the best possible example of how the electoral college isn't a direct representation of the popular vote.

Personally I think it's good that we keep talking about this election.  Why?  Because it's already history, and if we let history go stale we're doomed to repeat our mistakes.  Do any of you propose we stop teaching history in school?  Why not, it's already happened, right?! 

Anybody who doesn't like what's going on in this thread or wants to have it locked is a fool for continuing to visit 

[COToy91]

  Do any of you propose we stop teaching history in school?  Why not, it's already happened, right?! 

Cause I am a history teacher ha

[-Matt-]

Brandon , I would say this is one of the smartest posts in this thread . That said , can we please either lock or delete this thread ? . It's getting a little ignorant and out of hand IMO .

I AGREE!
this whole thread is quit immature, quit the bashing until you have real national reasons why you think our 44th president has destroyed America, i mean come on he hasn't even started.

[subliminaltrips]

i think its more of a thing that certain ignorant people are upset because they think that the other people, ignorant or not , will start a bunch of crap because now someone that isnt exactly like the first ignorant group has taken control of the most powerful position in the country. makes em feel inferior i guess.... 

[SR5Yota]

Anyone ready for snow wheelin! 

[BLACKDOG]

This is a redneck chat lol! im staying out!

Thank you for announcing that to the world!!   


This thread's title is indicative of bashing, but if you read through the posts, you'd find that there are some good discussion points coming from both sides, and for the the most part, respect for the different opinions.  Certainly there are a few, on both sides, that feel the need to stoop to low attacking the other side, rather than discussing things rationally.  Obama has been chosen as our 44th president.  That is what has happened, and that is what we have to live with.  I pray that he does a good job, and leads this country in the direction that it needs to be led.  However, I don't believe it will be, due to his past stances on different issues, and his ideas for the future.  To call people that disagree with him ignorant is ignorant in itself, for many of the reasons are perfectly valid reasons, which have already been mentioned in this thread. 

[Dr.Maxwe001]

Blackdog tell me about monavie

[WHITE_TRASH]

Apparently the 13th amendment doesn't mean anything in the future...
http://www.change.gov/agenda/service/



http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/amendment.htm



Section 1:

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2:

Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

[SR5Yota]

 

[46&2]

• Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.

Hmmm, I don't know about any other college students here on the board but I am not sure where I could fit in 100 hours of mandatory community service with my current schedule of 40+ hours a week of work on top of another 30-40 hours of school work I have each week. I guess I can give up my only free time I get, which in this year's case was 1 trip to Fordyce, and 1 trip to Rubicon. Only trips or vacation both my girlfriend and I got this year. Last year we didn't do anything we were so broke. It took a lot of planning and saving just to be able to get TWO weekend long vacations in. So I guess giving up our only miniscule amount of free time is the only thing we will be able to do...

[-Matt-]

Hmmm, I don't know about any other college students here on the board but I am not sure where I could fit in 100 hours of mandatory community service with my current schedule of 40+ hours a week of work on top of another 30-40 hours of school work I have each week. I guess I can give up my only free time I get, which in this year's case was 1 trip to Fordyce, and 1 trip to Rubicon. Only trips or vacation both my girlfriend and I got this year. Last year we didn't do anything we were so broke. It took a lot of planning and saving just to be able to get TWO weekend long vacations in. So I guess giving up our only miniscule amount of free time is the only thing we will be able to do...

i think your reading a phony put-to-gether web site or it was just old because that statement is from what i understood incorrect.
LINK http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

Higher Education

    * Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit: Obama and Biden will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit. This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service.

[blackdiamond]

i think your reading a phony put-to-gether web site or it was just old because that statement is from what i understood incorrect.
LINK http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

Higher Education

    * Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit: Obama and Biden will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit. This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service.

That's $40 per hour which seems excessive to me.  Community College grads (Associate Degree) would be lucky to make that on OT.  Sounds like a great deal to me.

Sadly, many people would complain about not having time to do it because they had to work part time at their $10 per hour job while complaining that math classes are a waste of time.

[-Matt-]

i was just trying to state thats its not going to be mandatory its only for people who need/want money to go to college. its just an opportunity saying if you want the money you are required to do 100 hours for the 4000$. seems like a good way to boost the economy/community plus not only are you getting damn good pay but most of the time (from personal experience) when you do lots of community service it can be semi fun couse you usually get fed, meet new people, bull crap, and they usually still clock you for 8 hours even if you have only done 6 or 7.

[blackdiamond]

i was just trying to state thats its not going to be mandatory its only for people who need/want money to go to college. its just an opportunity saying if you want the money you are required to do 100 hours for the 4000$. seems like a good way to boost the economy/community plus not only are you getting damn good pay but most of the time (from personal experience) when you do lots of community service it can be semi fun couse you usually get fed, meet new people, bull:pokinit:, and they usually still clock you for 8 hours even if you have only done 6 or 7.

Your point was well taken, I agree that it sounds like an option rather than a requirement.

I'm a government employee so I have very little faith in positive change no matter who the goof is running the place.  At work I'm starting 20-25% overtime so I can accomplish the work that we have been spending hours in meetings trying to make for efficient.  In this case the people in charge are clueless about my job and don't seem to care that I'm going to suffer thanks to their inability to do their own jobs.

Why is it that people can't just figure out how to do their current job more efficiently instead of making mine harder because they THINK making changes will make theirs easier?

Off Topic Rant...

[94MtnYote]

 

[Cheesemaker]

Volunteering is a good thing!  I think that the 100 hours of community service will be very beneficial to the community and the well being of the person doing the volunteer work.  I volunteer for a local program, and I feel that it makes me a better person, father, and husband.  Before I volunteered, I tended to have a blind eye to things around me.  But now, I see things in a different light.  And for the better!  Plus, I'm teaching my kids about volunteer work too!  





You guys are looking at things all wrong!!
The way I see it is, we got to start a new Presidential beer drinking game!  This one can pronounce his words right!!  

[germ]

in 1787 a scottish history professor was discussing the rise and fall of all great democracies in history, and particularly the fall of the Athenian empire some 2000 years prior. He said (and unfortuantly I'm going to have to paraphrase some, 'cause I don't have the exact quote in front of me right now) "all democracies have an average life of about 200 years. As soon as the populace realizes that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the national treasury, the democracy will fail due to loose fiscal policies. People will begin to vote for whomever will promise them the most, regardless of it's impact on the national health."

He then went on to explain that every democracy goes thru a life cycle, which is predictable and consistent.

bondage to self sufficiency, self sufficiency to religious freedom, religious freedom to prosperity, Prosperity to complacency, complacency to apathy, apathy to ignorance, ignorance to dependancy, dependancy to bondage.


I would argue that we as a nation, which has been going strong now for about 230 yrs, are nearing the end of the ride. I'd love for Pres elect Obama to prove me wrong, but it appears that we are moving closer to socialism (and away from democracy) at a faster pace than I'd like. I'd suggest that it started with "the new deal" and the development of Welfare, which started the process of dependancy on the Govt for sustinence. We have entire generations of people who have never worked a day, and who have always depended on the Govt to provide for them. We have created entitlement programs (fed, state and local) that require more and more resources every year to maintain. Higher percentages of our taxes are going to social entitlement programs that have nothing to do with the infrastructure/protection of our nation or local communities. Democrats (as a general rule) tend to want to expand existing entitlement programs and create new ones, in the belief that people will do better with a large govt that provides for them. Once you create an entitlement program, and enroll one person, the program takes on a life of it's own, and cannot be dismantled without replacing it with a bigger/better program. Prez Elect Obama made it pretty clear during his campaign that he believes in "redistributing the wealth", which strongly suggests more entitlement programs.

We (as a nation) have overcome many obstacles in the past, many of which seemed insurmountable at the time. I'm confident that we will do it again. My only concern is that we will be forced to live with the consequences of someone who has strong socialist leanings, and will create programs that will continue to suck the resources of this nation to the point that people start to give up on trying to better themselves and their lot in life. It will become easier to "go on the dole" than to get an education and create your own security/wealth. Redistribution of wealth will remove the incentive for people to strive for a better life 'cause "it's too much work". The few who have the indominatable courage to continue will be appropriately punished for their success, and see increasingly larger amounts of money being taken from them in the form of taxes and fees until they finally give up and go on the dole themselves. We will see ourselves move from ignorance to dependancy and into bondage. I could argue that we're already teetering on the bondage side.

May God protect us as we go thru these very difficult times and protect us from those who would lead us against ourselves.

Erik

[WHITE_TRASH]

Word!  So many people have their hand out and want to be taken care of.....  There are not a lot of us left that'd rather make it on our own and have the satisfaction without a handout along the way....




I spent a good amount of time reading on www.change.gov and I'm wondering how they'll pull off all that spending they are talking about in EVERY section without attempting to tax "the rich" to pay for it and cutting the military off at the knee's....  In all of that I read I never once saw anything specific about cutting spending.  Just a lot of fluff and feel good phrases....  We are 30 years overdue for a fall... 

[germ]

Thanks for the linky, just read thru a couple of pages, and WOW. it amazes me to look at all the investments he's planning on making while also cutting taxes. Hmmmmm makes me wonder where all this money is going to magically appear from. 250billion here, 60 billion there, large investments in entitlement programs.

There is only so much money to go around. If he's going to increase spending and decrease taxes that means that something is going to get cut. I'd agree that we're spending alot of money on things that I think are useless (some foreign aid, some farm subsidies, irrational studies, global warming etc), and I'm sure we could save a huge chunk of change eliminating some of these, but I fear he'll cut them from important things like the military, police and fire.

Well, not much we can do about it now, the election is over, and he's the winner. As BD said a few times, we'll just have to be more active in our monitoring of the bills being proposed, and be more vocal and try to influence the outcomes.

I kinda feel like WT's avatar.

Erik

[WHITE_TRASH]

Bah it's only money, the govt deserves to be in complete control of all of it.. Didn't you get the memo that we are a govt with people now?  No more of that "feel good crap" of being a people with a govt....  

[46&2]

i think your reading a phony put-to-gether web site or it was just old because that statement is from what i understood incorrect.
LINK http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

Higher Education

    * Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit: Obama and Biden will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit. This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service.

I assumed change.gov was Obama's website. What I read stated "Required" not an "opportunity".

[Rocksurfer]

About the only thing we can hope for is the masses that put him into office see through the veil he has up. If the changes he wants to do are done slowly we are in for some tough times, if he jumps in feet first those that put him there will feel the pinch and wonder wtf have we done. I think even his own party may turn tail and run as far away from him as they can get and then remove him from office....... or maybe he will be a great leader and change things for the better for all of us (yeah-right).

[TIMS89CRAWLER]

your all closed minded fools if you ask me..... as I said earlier he is our new president if you dont like it move your stupid  to canada or elsewhere.... we dont need your negative attitudes in times like this.....he cant be any worse than bush and mccain is just another bush! haha all you who dont like it....

[toyotaboy]

your all closed minded fools if you ask me..... as I said earlier he is our new president if you dont like it move your stupid  to canada or elsewhere.... we dont need your negative attitudes in times like this.....he cant be any worse than bush and mccain is just another bush! haha all you who dont like it....

k im sick and tired of you spouting off...  this is just as much my country as it is yours. im entiteled to my opionion as you are yours. we have a difference of opinion. wow, heres a cookie. now shut your mouth when it comes to making things personal. all of us get along here so i suggest you quite calling ppl stupid asses and jackasses. it makes you look like an immature child.

[abnormaltoy]

your all closed minded fools if you ask me..... as I said earlier he is our new president if you dont like it move your stupid  to canada or elsewhere.... we dont need your negative attitudes in times like this.....he cant be any worse than bush and mccain is just another bush! haha all you who dont like it....

It appears to me that you are more the closed minded fool than anyone here you deride as such.

I am disappointed in the tone of many posts in this thread since the election...but...

He is indeed our new President and I pray that he does well. That said, he will not be able to do the things he has said...even in good economic times, much less as things are now. You can not tax your way to economic prosperity, so, he will have to move to the center. If not he is doomed to fail.

The quickest way to recovery is not stimulus or bail-out packages (if it makes sense to give us back our own money...how much more sense does it make to never take it from us)...permanently cut the tax rate for corporations, capitol gains and the income tax...or even more simple, convert to the Fair Tax. Do all or most of these things and the economy will snap back faster than most can imagine. Only the arrogance and megalomania of our elected representatives will prevent this from happening. The downfall of Socialism and it's economic model is that there aren't enough people to pull the wagon, if everyone is getting a free ride.

[WHITE_TRASH]

your all closed minded fools if you ask me..... as I said earlier he is our new president if you dont like it move your stupid  to canada or elsewhere.... we dont need your negative attitudes in times like this.....he cant be any worse than bush and mccain is just another bush! haha all you who dont like it....

 yup, we're closed minded....  It's all bush's fault congress didn't do anything wrong. Gotcha....  




In years gone by we have fought against communism, fascism and socialism.  now there is a new threat to our freedom and sovereignty as a nation.....  obamunism.  We must fight against this just as the others, we as a country will prevail.

[abnormaltoy]

 yup, we're closed minded....  It's all bush's fault congress didn't do anything....  




:

If you're referring to Fanny and Freddy...the problem is (as usual) started when Congress overstepped it's bounds and required banks to give money to people that most likely couldn't pay it back. Barney Frank is neck deep in this mess and I hope they hang the pregnant dog by his nards.

[WHITE_TRASH]

Frank, Dodd, Schumer....  They all need to be strung up...  but I do have to differ with you on one thing...  After seeing Frank's boyfriend that works at freddy, I'm pretty sure Frank is not the pregnant dog in that relationship.

[abnormaltoy]

Frank, Dodd, Schumer....  They all need to be strung up...  but I do have to differ with you on one thing...  After seeing Frank's boyfriend that works at freddy, I'm pretty sure Frank is not the pregnant dog in that relationship.

I think they both are.

[brainlessfool]

I think they both are.

Sandwitch time