What do you think of Christ?

[blackdiamond]

This is an excellent illustration of God.  We are seeing 3 different manifestations of the same individual. 

I'm not sure I am ready to put God in the box that is implied by the word individual.

Individual:
(a) Of or relating to an individual, especially a single human: individual consciousness.
(b) By or for one person: individual work; an individual portion

I am not sure what a better word might be, but individual limits God far to much for me.  It will be fun to be in Heaven and learn more about what God is.

[NO4X]

Call Him a Being if that is more comfortable.  I was using individual more connotative.

[BLACKDOG]

  I'm lurking gentlemen.  I'd love to participate, but I am in the process of writing one paper and finishing up another.  It is very difficult for me to stay focused, I'm much rather be involved in this discussion  

I am enjoying reading it however.  

keep up the good points!!

[NO4X]

Let me summarize what I think you are saying...

The Son of God is Jesus Christ who is also God the Father who is also the Holy Spirit.

Yes...I don't know how that is possible, but your ant in the box idea helps alot.

This is starting to remind me of the country song [for the record I don't like country music] I'm My Own Grandpa!

Does this mean heaven is in Kentucky? 

[blackdiamond]

Time Out!

I need to get some  tonight as I was up way too late last night and up too early this morning.

Blackdog needs to and  and we don't need to distract him anymore.

So...until tomorrow...

[chim]

Good morning fella's.. looks like I missed more good stuff.... to everyone here, lets have a good day, no hitting below the belt, and lets keep it clean!

[blackdiamond]

Time In!

I have several ideas to post, but I don't have the resources or time until I get home.  I'm nearly sure that some condemnation will rain upon me with what I am thinking so...

...no hitting below the belt, and lets keep it clean!

...start washing your stones, aim high and I will get my body armor polished and ready to go.

It appears that I lost a tooth in yesterdays squabble.

[CTENG in KS]

I can't believe you people are still "thinking about Christ."  I figure you should have given up on it by now.

[BLACKDOG]

I can't believe you people are still "thinking about Christ."  I figure you should have given up on it by now.

I'm sure I speak for the others as well, but Christ is an integral part of my life   Its not just "thinking" about Him, but worshipping him, and knowing everyday, that God is in control of my life.  I was created by an omnipotent being, not in some vat of primordial ooze. 

I just pray that someday you may understand that

[chim]

Pretty soon here... everyone will be "thinking" about Christ wether they like it or not with their knees bowed!

[NO4X]

I can't believe you people are still "thinking about Christ."  I figure you should have given up on it by now.

Hey, you must have come in here for a reason.

[blackdiamond]

  Those with rocks...ready, aim, fire 

I believe that our human concept of "one" does not allow us to see the complete picture of God.  We tend to put God in a "box" and assume that "one" refers only to a number or quantity.  Here is a dictionary definition:

One (dictionary.com):
1. Being a single entity, unit, object, or living being.
2. Characterized by unity; undivided: They spoke with one voice.
3. Of the same kind or quality: two animals of one species.
4. Forming a single entity of two or more components: three chemicals combining into one solution.

The problem that I see is that the Bible has many texts that depict God as three unique manifestations or personalities.  Take a look at the following verse:

Gen 2:24 NIV  For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one [echad] flesh.

The original Hebrew word that was translated as "one" is echad.

echad: properly united, that is one (H259 Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries)

We all know that being married does not make two people become a single individual (maybe this is how married people stay single?).  A biblical marriage consists of two individuals that are united as one.  Now read another verse that uses the same original word echad.

Mal 2:10 NIV  Have we not all one [echad] Father? Did not one [echad] God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking faith with one another?

I found another text in the Old Testament that used the same original word and implies knowledge, or understanding, as an attribute of being one.

Gen 3:22 NIV  And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one [echad] of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

There are many verses in the Old Testament that use the word echad, translated as one, that clearly mean one in quantity and number so I am not claiming that what I have said above is conclusive evidence.  I simply don't think that we can immediately put God in a box that requires Him to be one in number or quantity.

Here are a few texts that seem to conflict with the idea of God being one in number, quantity or entity:

Mat 24:36 NIV  "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

1Co 8:6 NIV  yet for us there is but one God [theos], the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord [kurios], Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

In this text, the original Greek words for God [theos] and Lord [kurios] are different.  It seems that Paul refers to God the Father and Jesus Christ differently to show a distinction between them.  As a note, the definitions of the two words are nearly identical.  The King James has a slightly different English translation of the text.

1Co 8:6 KJV+  But to us there is but one [heis] God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

It is subtle, but it appears that we are "in" the Father, but are "by" Jesus Christ.  Isn't that saying that Jesus Christ created us in the name of the Father?

The original Greek word for one in the text above is heis.  How else this word used in the New Testament?

Joh 10:30 NIV  I and the Father are one [heis].

1Co 6:17 NIV  But he who unites himself with the Lord is one [heis] with him in spirit.

We can all agree that mankind is never one in number or quantity with God.

The bottom line is that we have to be very careful about putting God into a box the size of our understanding and only allow Him to exist within the confines of human language.

As a side note, do the churches that you each attend baptize people in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, or use similar wording?  I'm not sure I have witnessed a non-SDA baptism in person so I'm curious how other churches do it.

[blackdiamond]

...no hitting below the belt, and lets keep it clean!

chim - Did you scare everyone away?  The thread went from  &  to 

I have another topic that I want to dig up from the past, but I am waiting for BLACKDOG to return.  Anybody know how long he is going to be gone?  I am headed to the east coast from Sunday to Friday so I doubt if I will be on the board much since I don't have a notebook computer to take along.

[BLACKDOG]

chim - Did you scare everyone away?  The thread went from  &  to 

I have another topic that I want to dig up from the past, but I am waiting for BLACKDOG to return.  Anybody know how long he is going to be gone?  I am headed to the east coast from Sunday to Friday so I doubt if I will be on the board much since I don't have a notebook computer to take along.

I'm back!! bring it on!! whenever you get back

[chim]

Im here.. I have just been caught up dealing with other things  Always ready though!

I think NO4X was going to respond to your last post..   

[blackdiamond]

Me, Him or both of us?

I'm back!! bring it on!! whenever you get back

Glad you're back BD, I got back Friday night (actually Saturday morning) at 12:30am thanks to a United delay in Washington Dulles.  I wasn't excited about waiting 3-1/2 hours for a flight that was 5-1/2 hours long.  Saddly I almost switched my ticket to another more direct flight that would have arrived less than two hours after the original fight plan, but how was I to know it was actually going to be the earlier flight.

[NO4X]

I believe that our human concept of "one" does not allow us to see the complete picture of God.  We tend to put God in a "box" and assume that "one" refers only to a number or quantity.  Here is a dictionary definition:

One (dictionary.com):
1. Being a single entity, unit, object, or living being.
2. Characterized by unity; undivided: They spoke with one voice.
3. Of the same kind or quality: two animals of one species.
4. Forming a single entity of two or more components: three chemicals combining into one solution.

The problem that I see is that the Bible has many texts that depict God as three unique manifestations or personalities.

God has put himself in the box of the man Jesus Christ.  We only know of God by what He reveals to us through that "box".  I will agree that there are many verses that depict God as many different unique manifestations, but I cannot agree there are three unique personalities.

Main Entry: per·son·al·i·ty
1 a : the quality or state of being a person b : personal existence
2 a : the condition or fact of relating to a particular person; specifically : the condition of referring directly to or being aimed disparagingly or hostilely at an individual b : an offensively personal remark <angrily resorted to personalities>
3 : the complex of characteristics that distinguishes an individual or a nation or group; especially : the totality of an individual's behavioral and emotional characteristics
4 a : distinction or excellence of personal and social traits; also : a person having such quality b : a person of importance, prominence, renown, or notoriety <a TV personality>

All the manifestations have the same personality.  THEY ARE THE SAME GOD!  Your statement is claiming, AGAIN, there are three unique gods that make up the one godhead.  The bible doesn't state this.  In fact, it states very clearly the Lord is One.  You making this statement again, only proves the outcome of the biblical test.  If you had the Spirit, you could not make this statement.  Even playing devils advocate, you could not make this statement.

Take a look at the following verse:

Gen 2:24 NIV  For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one [echad] flesh.

We all know that being married does not make two people become a single individual (maybe this is how married people stay single?).  A biblical marriage consists of two individuals that are united as one.

I do agree with this verse.  I believe that a man and a woman do become one flesh.  First of all, I believe that a husband and wife become one flesh in their children, and they, themselves, become one flesh.  Paul confirms this in 1Corinth 6:13-20.  I believe it because God says it in His word.  I believe it the same way I believe God will give the Jews a new heart as He says He will in Ezekiel.  He won't be performing open heart surgery either, but He really doesn't have to, does He?

The original Hebrew word that was translated as "one" is echad.

echad: properly united, that is one (H259 Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries)

I do find it interesting that you only provide a partial meaning of "echad".  E-sword shows it means more than what you have stated.

'echâd
ekh-awd'
A numeral from H258; properly united, that is, one; or (as an ordinal) first: - a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any (-thing), apiece, a certain [dai-] ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.

Why not speak the truth by providing the whole definition?  I understand using different bible versions to better understand a scripture, but quoting from different versions all the time, and providing only part of the information to best support your argument, is twisting the scripture that Peter talks about in 2Peter 3:16.  All the cults do this.

Yes, it would seem at first the following verses contradict the concept of One God, until you take them into context with the bible message as a whole.

Mat 24:36 NIV  "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

At the time Jesus made this statement, He did not know.  He had given up His role to act as God, and lived here as a man, completely submissive to God's will and authority.  At that instant, He was living completely as a man.  I am sure He knows the day and hour today. 

Philippians 2:6-11 (NIV) Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.  And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-even death on the cross!  Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Co 8:6  for us there is but one God [theos], the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord [kurios], Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

In this text, the original Greek words for God [theos] and Lord [kurios] are different.  It seems that Paul refers to God the Father and Jesus Christ differently to show a distinction between them.  As a note, the definitions of the two words are nearly identical.  The King James has a slightly different English translation of the text....It is subtle, but it appears that we are "in" the Father, but are "by" Jesus Christ.  Isn't that saying that Jesus Christ created us in the name of the Father?

The meaning of God is Creator.  The meaning of Lord is Ruler.  They are not two different beings.  This verse simply states that there is one Creator who created everything and whom we live for, and that there is one ruler  through whom He created all things, and gave us life.  Jesus is the bodily revelation of God.  God will rule this earth as Jesus.  Just as He redeemed us as Jesus.  You have to read the bible in context with other verses of the bible.  All of the bible is true.  It cannot contradict itself.  If two verses seem to contradict, then both are true.

Zec 14:9  And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

In the old testament, when LORD is written with all capitals, it has been substituted for Jehovah, the name for God the Father.  This verse states that God the Father will be king over all the earth.

Rev 17:14  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.

Now...the bible is stating that God the Father is king over all the earth, but Jesus is King of Kings.  How can this not be a contradiction?  Jesus answers this Himself.

Joh 10:30 NIV  I and the Father are one.

The bottom line is you need to quit defining God to fit your understanding, and believe what the bible says.  You accuse us of putting God in a box, but that is exactly what you are doing.  You are contradicting the word of God, so you can explain His nature.  This is where the Spirit of God would help you alot.

[blackdiamond]

At the risk of going around the block once again...

Let me state this once again; the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are absolutely one God.  The unexplainable three-in-one or the Trinity.

I do find it interesting that you only provide a partial meaning of "echad".  E-sword shows it means more than what you have stated.

I don't remember stating that what I posted was the only definition of echad, it only makes sense to quote the definition that follows the thought.  In fact, I specifically pointed out that it has other meanings in the Bible as well.

There are many verses in the Old Testament that use the word echad, translated as one, that clearly mean one in quantity and number so I am not claiming that what I have said above is conclusive evidence.

I'm not sure that posting a complete definition would have been any more clear than the statement above.

At the time Jesus made this statement, He did not know.  He had given up His role to act as God, and lived here as a man, completely submissive to God's will and authority.  At that instant, He was living completely as a man.  I am sure He knows the day and hour today. 

I will have to think about this, but is seems to be reasonable.

I guess I don't have much to add other than to say that one of us will be surprised in heaven, I won't be too shocked either way, but I suspect you might be if God doesn't fit into your understanding.

Time for the Next Topic, I have a couple in mind.  One planned topic will, I suspect, result in more stones being thrown, me being told that I don't have the Spirit and therefore cannot understand.  It should be exciting, stay tuned!     

As a side note, I often wonder how different the reaction to my posts would be if my denominational affiliation wasn't known.  I have considered joining another Christian forum and finding out.   

[NO4X]

Let me state this once again; the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are absolutely one God.  The unexplainable three-in-one or the Trinity.

You don't get it.  This statement does not prove the Spirit is in you.

As a side note, I often wonder how different the reaction to my posts would be if my denominational affiliation wasn't known.  I have considered joining another Christian forum and finding out.

Any bible believing christian, who is not asleep, would smell that bunk you're trying to sell as bible teaching a mile away.  If myself or chim (and blackdog i believe) were on those forums, you would meet the same resistance.  You should meet that resistance from all true believers.

[blackdiamond]

You don't get it.  This statement does not prove the Spirit is in you.

I guess I glad that it is up to God to judge my heart and not you, even though you seem more than willing to take the role.

[blackdiamond]

Here is something that I heard at church yesterday and understood in a new way.

Num 21:4-9 NIV  They traveled from Mount Hor along the route to the Red Sea, to go around Edom. But the people grew impatient on the way;  (5)  they spoke against God and against Moses, and said, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the desert? There is no bread! There is no water! And we detest this miserable food!"  (6)  Then the LORD sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died.  (7)  The people came to Moses and said, "We sinned when we spoke against the LORD and against you. Pray that the LORD will take the snakes away from us." So Moses prayed for the people.  (8)  The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live."  (9)  So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.

When Israel spoke against God and Moses the Lord sent venomous snakes that killed many of them.  The people of Israel requested that Moses petition the Lord to take away the snakes.  What was the Lord's response?  Instead of removing the snakes, He provided way for them to demonstrate their faith in Him in the midst of the trouble.

Now take a look at another commonly used text. 

Rom 8:1-9 NIV  Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, (2)  because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death [we no longer have to be subject to death as a result of our sin].  (3)  For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature [man is/was not able to resist the temptation of Satin], God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering [Christ paid the price for us]. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,  (4)  in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit [Through Christ and His Spirit we can have the ability to keep the law].  (5)  Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires [The Spirit must be in full control of our lives].  (6)  The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;  (7)  the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so [It is not possible for sinful man to keep God's law].  (8)  Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.  (9)  You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you [If the Spirit of God controls my life it is possible for me to keep God's Law]. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Again we see that God does not remove the hardships, or temptations, in our lives, rather by having faith in the death of Jesus Christ, as demonstrated by allowing the Spirit to rule in our lives, will provide a way for us to live according to God's Law.

Life isn't about consulting with God for answers when we get lost in life, it is about always following the Spirit in everything that we do and say.

*****
Over the past year or so my local church started a new "tradition" where the church gathers around the pastor, or guest speaker, and three people pray that he be filled with the Holy Spirit and have the courage to speak the truth and that we be receptive to what we need to hear and understand.  It has been an amazing blessing to see the changes in his personal life and new insight that he has been able to present.  His testimony over the past year has been an inspiration and blessing to me.  When I first arrived here a few years ago I often didn't "connect" with his messages, but since we have started praying for him, I look forward to what he will say each week.  I think that every church should do this, it is an amazing blessing.

[NO4X]

I guess I glad that it is up to God to judge my heart and not you, even though you seem more than willing to take the role.

Blackdiamond, you need to get more familiar with your bible.  According to 1Corinth 6:2, it will be up to me.  It will be up to Christ, chim, blackdog, myself, and every other believer who can say Jesus, the Christ, is The Eternal Self-Existent God, The Father, born in the flesh to redeem the lost as it is written in the scripture.

But, since you don't believe the verse that proves a person has the Spirit, maybe you should get familiar with the following verses that the SDA church also doesn't believe.

Matthew 18:8-9, Matthew 25:41, Mark 9:43-48, Revelation 20:10

[blackdiamond]

Blackdiamond, you need to get more familiar with your bible.  According to 1Corinth 6:2, it will be up to me.  It will be up to Christ, chim, blackdog, myself, and every other believer who can say Jesus, the Christ, is The Eternal Self-Existent God, The Father, born in the flesh to redeem the lost as it is written in the scripture.

But, since you don't believe the verse that proves a person has the Spirit, maybe you should get familiar with the following verses that the SDA church also doesn't believe.

Matthew 18:8-9, Matthew 25:41, Mark 9:43-48, Revelation 20:10

1Co 6:2 NIV  Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?

Notice this is future tense and not present tense.

I do believe the verse about having the Spirit, but my understanding of the concept of One Lord is a bit more open than yours and I am not convicted that mine excludes me from having the Spirit.  I'm not 100% sure that Blackdog completely agrees with you on this one, but only he can answer this.  I discussed this a bit with a co-worker (non-denominational Christian) and his understanding of the Trinity seemed to be fairly similar to mine.

I was really hoping to avoid the current situation of this thread.  At this point there is nothing to be gained from our discussions as it is basically blackdiamond vs. NO4X.  When we first started discussing religion on the board months ago it was very beneficial for me as it pushed me to study my beliefs.  I feel that I have defended my personal beliefs as well as anyone else without attacking the rest of you.  It seems that some don't think that logic has anything to do with understanding the Bible and I honestly don't know what to do with that as God gave us the ability to reason and a Bible to study.  The bottom line is that this thread is no longer pushing me in a postive way to study and grow closer to my Creator.  I am going to drop into the background as a "lurker" for a while and will consider re-joining at a future date.  It has been amazing to me how many times that as I study an area that we are discussing on this thread it ties perfectly together with some of my other beliefs.  The problem is that if I pointed those things out it on the thread it would only create another round of attacks, most of which we have already discussed at length in the past.  It used to be a blessing for me, but sadly it is no longer.  I thank you guys for presenting your beliefs as I have grown to understand some new things as a result of these discussions.  Please understand that my reason for withdrawing from the conversation is two fold: (1) Either NO4X or I need to step back or this thread will never have a chance to be a blessing, or beneficial, to anyone involved. (2) I am no longer personally being blessed by being a part of the discussion.  The discussions used to involve more people but has slowly been reduced to something similar to a grudge match.  It is time for a new path to be taken.

My next proposed topic of discussion would have been...

Was it possible for Christ to sin while on earth?  If so, what would have happened?  If not, what was the sacrifice?

I would still love to see what you guys think, I suspect that there will be some disagreement from my memory of this topic being "brushed" previously and some PM traffic with BD.

God Bless   

[BLACKDOG]

 

I am disappointed that this thread has come to this.   I'm not choosing sides, but this thread has gone from a good thread, initially started to hear people's thoughts on Christ, and a common respect of people's beliefs, whether each was percieved as wrong or right.  However, it has recently taken a downturn, and has turned into "Christians" bashing other "Christians"  I am not questioning anyone's salvation in these terms, as I pray, and I feel that each one of us (the main speakers in this thread; bd, chim, NO4X, and myself) DO in fact have the Spirit in them.  I have learned much from each of you, and I also disagree on different points with each of you.  However, that has not stopped me from contributing to this thread, or having the sense to back down from time to time.

bd and I have essentially been in the religion discussion from the very beginning.  He is SDA, and I am essentially non-denominational, with a baptist emphasis.  He and I do not agree on many things, but I have learned a great many things from him, and I hope he feels the same about what I have contributed.  I am extremely saddened to see the treatment he has recieved, and hope that this thread can be cleaned up, and return to more civilized discussion. 

Remember, regardless of whether someone has the Spirit or not, we are supposed to treat them with respect, and to reach out to them, not slam their every move because you disagree with their beliefs.

1Co 6:2 NIV  Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?

Notice this is future tense and not present tense.

I do believe the verse about having the Spirit, but my understanding of the concept of One Lord is a bit more open than yours and I am not convicted that mine excludes me from having the Spirit.  I'm not 100% sure that Blackdog completely agrees with you on this one, but only he can answer this.  I discussed this a bit with a co-worker (non-denominational Christian) and his understanding of the Trinity seemed to be fairly similar to mine.

I do agree with bd on the statement of the Trinity.  First of all, the concept of 3-1 is uncomprehensible to me, as I'm sure it is with everyone else.  BUT how can you not say that there are most certainly three different "personalities," one with each of the parts of the Trinity?  Does the Bible not say that Christ will intercede with his Father on our behalf?  We know Christ and God are one and the same, but obviously different IMO, because if they were completely the same, why would Christ have to intercede on our behalf.

My next proposed topic of discussion would have been...

Was it possible for Christ to sin while on earth?  If so, what would have happened?  If not, what was the sacrifice?

I don't have time to get into this now, but to kick things off, Yes, I believe it was possible for Christ to have sinned.  If it were not, the fact that he lived a sinless life would be moot, and his death on the cross to cover our sins would be pointless.  Also, if he were not able to sin, then there would have been no point in tempting him, however, satan did anyway

I would still love to see what you guys think, I suspect that there will be some disagreement from my memory of this topic being "brushed" previously and some PM traffic with BD.

God Bless   

[BLACKDOG]

anything?   this thread has gotten real boring all of a sudden 

To clarify a few things,
I do agree with bd on the statement of the Trinity.  First of all, the concept of 3-1 is uncomprehensible to me, as I'm sure it is with everyone else.  BUT how can you not say that there are most certainly three different "personalities," one with each of the parts of the Trinity?  Does the Bible not say that Christ will intercede with his Father on our behalf?  We know Christ and God are one and the same, but obviously different IMO, because if they were completely the same, why would Christ have to intercede on our behalf.

My next proposed topic of discussion would have been...

Was it possible for Christ to sin while on earth?  If so, what would have happened?  If not, what was the sacrifice?

I would still love to see what you guys think, I suspect that there will be some disagreement from my memory of this topic being "brushed" previously and some PM traffic with BD.

God Bless   

I don't have time to get into this now, but to kick things off, Yes, I believe it was possible for Christ to have sinned.  If it were not, the fact that he lived a sinless life would be moot, and his death on the cross to cover our sins would be pointless.  Also, if he were not able to sin, then there would have been no point in tempting him, however, satan did anyway

[chim]

Sorry guys... I have not been too quick to respond to anything here for a little while. Mostly because I am caught up in discussion about the gift of tongues in another location.

I do think this is not a very good example to others who may be watching... But I take a stand on both postitions..  basically when it comes to NO4X's comments I see where he is coming from. Because even though BlackDiamond is saying that the three are one, he still has not said that Jesus Christ is THE God come in the flesh. Thats the test he is talking about. NO4X is coming from a position as an ex-SDA and is not only considering the other false teachings but is trying to nail down this point to.
But to beat it home and re-hash the issue at this juncture is counter productive. I think the witness here has been damaged.. The topic should now be called "Advanced Theology"!!!

[chim]

First off, I want to apologize for what this thread has become. Because of my participation and others, I have helped to make it something other than a positive witness for Christ. Therefore, if someone wants to "debate" theology, then may I suggest a new thread so this one can get back to its roots and declare a risen Savior to those lost.

Let me clarify, that I do love my brothers in Christ; Blackdiamond, NO4X, Blackdog and all those that used to post but have ceased to do so. May the Lord bless you all, and know that I pray for each of you to learn and grow in the Spirit and proclaim that Faith.

In Christ,

Tatum (chim)

[BLACKDOG]

well said chim,

I too, have nothing but love for anyone who has participated in our discussions.  I dont hold any animosity toward anyone that has ever spoken on here.  I agree, that mabye we should move to a different thread, and leave this one to what it once was


Advacned theology, here we come!!!

[blackdiamond]

  It would probably be better to have chim modify the original post on this thread and change the topic.  A new thread will have a much better chance of staying on topic.

Just my 

Now...back to lurking