Topic: New Problem with Rebuild - Won't Rev

[RynothealbinO]

  Hello, I am almost done getting my rebuilt 22r in my 4Runner and I am think I have a problem.  First a little history: the engine has a new crank, pistons(.020" over), engnbldr cam, oil pump, and reconditioned rods.  All the parts are from engnbldr and I assembled the engine myself.  I have the engine in the truck and have been cranking it over in hopes of getting oil to the top end.  In doing so my oil pressure gauge first leveled out at about 40psi but now is showing almost 100 psi.  This does not sound right at to me, does anbody know what would cause this.  I checked all of the bearings for oil clearance and they were all perfect, then all bearings were lubricated with lubriplate engine assembly lube before final assembly.  Any ideas?  Also what brings oil to the top end?  Does it just get pulled up with the timing chain and then splashed by the cam or are ther passages running oil up to the top?  I geuss I never paid that much attention to that and now I can't remember.  So assuming i get this all sorted out I also was wondering what you would reccomend for break in.  My book tells me what to do but I am not sure if that is factoring in having a new cam or not.  You guys don't even know how big of a help you are to me so thank you in advance for any ideas or suggestions.

[RN37DD]

there is an oil passage in the engine block that leads up to the rocker arm Assemblies. then through the rocker arm shaft to short passages in the head to the cam bearings. after the engine has run the entire cam pocket should be full of engine oil. just pull the valve cover off with the engine stopped to check. the first thing I'd check is your oil pressure gage to make sure it hasn't malfunctioned. hope it's just something simple. good luck

[RN37DD]

one other thing.. if your oil pressure gage is installed before your oil filter it may be reading high because the filters pluged with somthing. remove the filter and see if it has gunk in it. drain it in a clean container and see how it looks. if all looks good replace it with a new filter.

[Cheesemaker]

As for breaking in the cam, you need to run the motor at 1800-2000 rpm's for at least 20 minutes!  And then just drive it after that.  That's what I was told my the guy that I bought my motor from.  Is to just get out and drive the truck right after getting the cam broke it!  After that just take it easy for the first 1000 miles.  Change your oil after 100 miles, 250 miles, 500 miles and then 1000 miles! 

[RynothealbinO [OP]]

So after working on it all day it seems as if I have a blockage somewhere.  i have replaced the oil pump with the original, and replaced the cam just in case it was too tight, but I am still having the same problem.  Also my number 2 and possibly 3 cam bearings still have not gotten oil up to them.  So whats going on?  I know the passages in the block were clean, the crank is new so that leaves me with the head having a block somewhere.  How do I clean out the passages in the head?  Or is it possible that the head gasket is wrong and blocking flow?

[TheCookieMonster]

if the head was still off you should just blow out all the passages with compressed air to make sure everything is clean and able to flow oil and antifreeze....with the head on ..take your valve cover off and have someone crank the motor and watch and make sure oil is flowing...there is some kind of little valve on the oil pump itself that does something???well there is on the 20r pump..may have somethin to do with it
            the head gasket i put on my motor after the rebuild i had to punch out more holes that weren't in the new gasket...they were for water and a few smaller ones for oil passages i believe..i just matched my origional gasket up to the new one and made it match...i think my gasket was from Rock gaskets.... i think.....well good luck

[RN37DD]

oil flows from the block to the head and up number 1 intake side head bolt to the fwd rocker stand and also lubricates  #1 cam bearing through a short oil passage. it also flows through the rocker shaft to the middle rocker stand, down the intake side head bolt to a short passage in the head to the middle cam bearing. it also flows down the rocker shaft to the last rocker stand and dose the same thing for #3 cam bearing. there are also holes in the shaft to oil each rocker. i guess you could have something in your rocker shaft rocker stands, or head bolt cavity.. example junk or heavy assembly lube. hmm i wonder if rocker shafts could be wrong

[79coyotefrg]

oil flows from the block to the head and up number 1 intake side head bolt to the fwd rocker stand and also lubricates  #1 cam bearing. it then flows through the rocker shaft to the middle rocker stand, down the intake side head bolt to the head to the middle cam bearing. it also flows down the rocker shaft to the last rocker stand and dose the same thing for #3 cam bearing. there are also holes in the shaft to oil each rocker. i guess you could have something in your rocker shaft. hmm i wonder if rocker shafts could be wrong

who gave you this  information ??

[79coyotefrg]

chances are  your  cam  oil ports are  plugged

remove the cam,  use a  bore brush  and clean the  oil ports out

this SHOULD have been done  on the bench

[RynothealbinO [OP]]

Well I geuss I'm pulling the head at this point.  Todd from engnbldr told me that I cannot use a brush to clean out the passages in the head...but I'm not sure what his reasoning was.  I am going to try to get ahold of some brushes but I will start with air first.  Where the return line to the rest of the block from the head?  I also have a Rock gasket, so what are the chances that it is wrong also?  Too bad my old gasket is long gone.

[RN37DD]

no one. you can't clean the oil passage with he head on because it runs right into the head bolt.

[RynothealbinO [OP]]

Okay so I have the head off and I can blow air through the rocker shafts.  I blocked them all off, leaving one open at a time and got all of the old oil and assembly lube out of it.  Once I pulled it all apart it was pretty apparent that there was no oil that had traveled up to any of the bearing passages but I know there was pressure in the head because there was oil coming oil of the bottom of the rocker supports when it was at almost 100 psi.  I also blew air through the passages on the cam bearings and got them cleared out also.  So is that it for the head itself or am I missing something.  From what I understand oil comes up through the front right bolt, through the shafts, which then send it to the bearings and rockers...right?  And then I am assuming that it all goes through the drain in the back right corner which I think goes to the crank case...or is there a hign pressure line back to something?  So do you think this should work now?  Thanks .

[79coyotefrg]

yes  it all returns to the pan thru the  big hole in the right rear corner

no one. you can't clean the oil passage with he head on because it runs right into the head bolt.

um  not to mention if the headbolts  are still in  theres  going to be some rocker assembly not to mention the cam itself in the way

Well I geuss I'm pulling the head at this point.  Todd from engnbldr told me that I cannot use a brush to clean out the passages in the head...but I'm not sure what his reasoning was. 

if i had a big  Hot tank chemical dip  i wouldnt worry about a  bore brush either,

  i assumed  you didnt have access  to a  hot tank,  thats why i  suggested  the bore brush
sometimes i wonder what those guys at EB  are smokin

[RynothealbinO [OP]]

I don't have a hot tank...sorry if you got that impression...or maybe you were talking about engbldr?  Anyways, the block was hot tanked and brushed so that is fine, so I think the problem is in the head.  But I just dot to thinking...I'm now not sure if the head actually ever got oil to it.  Like I said the cam never got any and from past experience I would think oil would also be coming out of the rockers with relative ease, so it should be pretty apparent that there is oil there.  So I'm wondering if maybe the head isn't getting oil.  How hard would it be to brush out from where oil goes to the head, down to the filter, and back out to the pump?  I can blow air through my oil guage fitting and have the oil come out of the top passage if I block the filter passages.  Also, where do the oil passages tee off to go into the crank?

[79coyotefrg]

they angle down to the crank  from the main oil galley  on the pass  side of the block, 
i always run a bore brush  from the  bottom, (engine upside down with crank removed)

also   near the top  on the front of the engine  i think theres a  allen head plug,   thats a oil galley,   theres also one on the rear of the block
a rifle cleaning kit comes in handy here

[RN37DD]

yes if the head is off and the front cover is removed you can remove the front allen head plug. then if the vertical passage is clean you can shine a light from the top and you should see it from the bottom. on the picture above at #2 and 3 are plugs that can be removed and checked. hey i might be crazy but i think thats how it all works.

[TheCookieMonster]

on the gasket deal...look at the gasket you just took out and see if there are any spots that look like something was supposed to be flowing through there...then look on your head and block and locate the holes that are supposed to be in the gasket...ive done 2 builds with different gaskets and had to punch holes in both so i wouldnt be supprised if you have to do the same...just use a leather punch they work great

[RynothealbinO [OP]]

Allright, it is running and it has good oil pressure with oil going to the head, which I found out the hard way because I forgot to remove the paper towel that I had blocking the rear return passage to the block leading oil to leak out of the valve cover..bot thats another story.  Anyways I finally got it to sputter off and advanced the ignition to enable it to actually stay running and decided after about 30 seconds it would be a good idea to put coolant in it.  As I was putting coolant in it it started to leak out of the side of the block where a block heater is, which is in the place of a frost plug.  when I took the block to the machine shop they said they would try to remove the heater, but they were only able to get the outside plastic part out, they could not get the rest out.  I was assured it was fine to run it as is but apparantly when the plastic came out it opened up a hole that is about 1/8" big in the center of the heater.  The hole is not threaded so my options are to either to tap it and put a plug in it or to simply weld the hole up, assuming it is iron.  I am lazy and like welding so I am really tempted to weld it up...but that could also be because I am simply tired of working on this dumb thing.  Any thoughts before I do something stupid?

[RN37DD]

can you post a picture of the area your having a problem with?

[TheCookieMonster]

if it is steel weld it up just make sure to set the welder very low.....hopefully the plug isnt copper because they make those also...should be pretty eazy to tell....who ever said they cant get that out is an idiot!! slidehammer works great... good luck with getin your leak fixed....i hate coolant leaks

[RynothealbinO [OP]]

I got it fixed (I think), I jsut taped it out and put a bolt with 5-minute epoxy on it in the hole.  I have a buddy coming over now to see if we can get this working.  Thank all of you for the help.

[RynothealbinO [OP]]

So it is back together and running but it doesn't seem to be running right.  It will not rev above 2k, and that is at full throttle.  It seems to sputter and never really "cleans out" to run smoothly.  I also have to have my ignition almost all of the way advanced in order to make it run (counter clockwise is advanced right?).  I figure with having the head off multiple times it is very possible that the timing got off by one sprocket, would this cause it to run like this?  i figure if I have to advance the ignition it is retarded and therefore the cam is also, which assumes the cam and the distributor are meshed right.  Any thoughts?  Man I feel like a noob...

[RynothealbinO [OP]]

Yup, it was just the ignition timing was retarded too much.  Pulled the didtributor and turned it clockwise on gear.  Woooooo

[Fearofrunner]

How does it run now? How's the oil pressure?

[TheCookieMonster]

i had timing problems with mine also when i put it back together...all the settings were right but it liked to diesel when i turned it off....part of it was my vacuum advance and i noticed that new rebuilt motors dont like to run right until you get some miles on it....once everything gets settled and broke in it ran like a raped ape ...i had to do lots of adjusting also so its not just you...just get out and drive it ,once it runs like its supposed to

[RynothealbinO [OP]]

It seems to be running well with no leaks of any kind and it seems to be running cool.  I have about 70 miled on it so far and it seems okay.  It is even slower now than it was before, but that will change.  So far I have not bothered to put the hood on just to make sure it stays cool, plus it halps that it is in the 20's outside.  The big test is tomorrow when I will drive it almost 200 miles to school.  Will this be a problem on this engine, do I need to take breaks every so often?  The only major problem is that it is hard to start when warm.

[79coyotefrg]

if  the engine is running  at  180  and no more than 190   then  just  ease along  dont  get over 3000 rpm   if you can keep from it

carry extra coolant  and oil, JUST IN CASE

[RynothealbinO [OP]]

It worked!  Three and a half hours worth of driving and it did not skip a beat.  Now I just can't wait until it is thouroughly broken in.

[TheCookieMonster]

  sweet im glad she works....i was scared the first trip i took mine on after the rebuild im just way to paranoid

[Cheesemaker]

Sounds good!  I've got 700 miles on my new motor and I'm still babying mine.