Topic: Advanced Theology II

[blackdiamond]

It has been a while since there was an active thread on the board that discussed religion.  Personally, I enjoyed the discussions because they were more “open” than I have found discussions to be on the Christian boards.  Most of the discussion seem to suffer from "Holy Roller" syndrome. 

I will start this discussion with a couple of questions.

(1) Do you believe that the devil, or his evil angels/spirits, actually exists and is a real live personal being?

(2) Do you believe that the devil can influence your life, or thoughts? 

(3) Do you believe in devil, or spirit, possession?

(4) Do you believe that we, as humans, have the right to “cast” the devil, or evil spirits, out of people that are possessed?

I have been reading a series of books written by a man that was personally involved in spirit worship, also known as devil worship, that tell about his experience and his life after becoming a Christian.  Blackdog has read the first book that he wrote.

Last night I read a chapter in one of the books where he explained his belief that we, as humans, do not have the right to “cast” the devil out of possessed people.  Instead he believes that we are to pray that the Holy Spirit will rebuke the devil. 

This was new to me.  I am in the process of looking at this topic a little more in depth.  What do you think?

 

[abnormaltoy]

1. Yes...but, I don't think Satan is flesh and blood.

2. Yes.

3. As in "The Exorcist"...probably not. As in consuming ones spirit...yes.

4. I don't know.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

1. Yes...but, I don't think Satan is flesh and blood.

3. As in "The Exorcist"...probably not. As in consuming ones spirit...yes.

What physical form do you believe Satan has, or can have?

By, "consuming ones spirit," do you mean something like depression?

[abnormaltoy]

Satan was/is cherubim I don’t know whether or not they are flesh and blood or if they can “take on” other forms. My gut feeling is that evil is more spirit than substance. I don’t know how well that fits into traditional Christian beliefs.

Depression has at least some base in chemistry, so I can’t say for a fact that is what I mean by being consumed. It may also be that the chemical changes are brought on by the psychological stresses of being, or rather being made to feel, separated from God. Ones spirit can be consumed by a variety of “things”…jealousy, greed, lust, etc. All are not productive by any measure and can be considered evil, if evil is the absence of good.





I need to say that I am in no way a Biblical scholar, theologian or even on the right path in life. I hold rather unusual beliefs, probably unique is a better word. In fact I know more about what I don’t believe than what I believe in.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

(1) Satan was/is cherubim I don’t know whether or not they are flesh and blood or if they can “take on” other forms. My gut feeling is that evil is more spirit than substance.

(2) Depression has at least some base in chemistry, so I can’t say for a fact that is what I mean by being consumed.

(3) I need to say that I am in no way a Biblical scholar, theologian or even on the right path in life. I hold rather unusual beliefs, probably unique is a better word. In fact I know more about what I don’t believe than what I believe in.

(1) Biblically speaking, Satan is Lucifer who was an angel.  There is evidence in the Bible to show that angels have the ability to be seen by man.

(2) I would agree that "chemical imbalances" are not possession, but rather a result of sin.

(3) Stick around on this thread and we can find out how are beliefs are the same and/or different.

I expect two or three others to join the discussion in the near future. 

[BLACKDOG]

1) Yes
Satan, and his fallen angels are real, as are demons.
2) Yes
This would be called temptation.  He even tried to tempt Christ himself!
3) Yes
Several occurences of this in the Bible
4) I don't know.
I'm not sure how I feel about this one.  Do I think we have the "right" to? and do I think we can on our own? No  However, and I guess this kinda agress with the author, that we can ask that it be done in the name of God   never really thought about it before.  As a human, we cannot do it, but with God's help we can, I guess would be my short, uninformed answer

[blackdiamond [OP]]

1) Yes
Satan, and his fallen angels are real, as are demons.

4) I don't know.
I'm not sure how I feel about this one.  Do I think we have the "right" to? and do I think we can on our own? No  However, and I guess this kinda agress with the author, that we can ask that it be done in the name of God   never really thought about it before.  As a human, we cannot do it, but with God's help we can, I guess would be my short, uninformed answer

(1) Do you believe that there is a difference between fallen angles and demons? 

(4) Last night I looked more in depth into the evidence in the book and will try to simplify and post tonight.

[chim]

It has been a while since there was an active thread on the board that discussed religion.  Personally, I enjoyed the discussions because they were more “open” than I have found discussions to be on the Christian boards.  Most of the discussion seem to suffer from "Holy Roller" syndrome. 

I will start this discussion with a couple of questions.

(1) Do you believe that the devil, or his evil angels/spirits, actually exists and is a real live personal being?

(2) Do you believe that the devil can influence your life, or thoughts? 

(3) Do you believe in devil, or spirit, possession?

(4) Do you believe that we, as humans, have the right to “cast” the devil, or evil spirits, out of people that are possessed?

I have been reading a series of books written by a man that was personally involved in spirit worship, also known as devil worship, that tell about his experience and his life after becoming a Christian.  Blackdog has read the first book that he wrote.

Last night I read a chapter in one of the books where he explained his belief that we, as humans, do not have the right to “cast” the devil out of possessed people.  Instead he believes that we are to pray that the Holy Spirit will rebuke the devil. 

This was new to me.  I am in the process of looking at this topic a little more in depth.  What do you think?

 

1. Yes

2. I believe he can always influence you and your thoughts, but not posses a true believer.

3. Yes

4. I believe that we can exorcise... also though.. I believe when it comes to Satan himself.. we need the Lord.. because not even Michael the archangel rebuked Satan but had the Lord do it.. which also shows for some that Michael is not Jesus Christ or the Lord.

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

2. I believe he can always influence you and your thoughts, but not posses a true believer.
4. I believe that we can exorcise... also though.. I believe when it comes to Satan himself.. we need the Lord.. because not even Michael the archangel rebuked Satan but had the Lord do it.. which also shows for some that Michael is not Jesus Christ or the Lord.

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

(2) I would agree, but the problem is that we, as humans, do not have the ability to really know who is a true Christian. 

(4) This is a poke at a blast from the past topic, but an excellent point it is.  Your thought process is very similar to what I will post tonight.

[chim]

(2) I would agree, but the problem is that we, as humans, do not have the ability to really know who is a true Christian. 

(4) This is a poke at a blast from the past topic, but an excellent point it is.  Your thought process is very similar to what I will post tonight.

2....  I dont think it matters if we can tell wether or not a person is a true Christain when it comes to posession.. but that we can take comfort in knowing that those who truly believe in Christ are not indwelt by God the Holy Spirit, therefor it is not possible for Satan to come in... but Satan is fully capable of tempting us and trying to influence us.

4. Sorry... I wasnt trying to "poke".. just pointing out something I found obvious

[abnormaltoy]

(2) who is a true Christian. 

Which brings up the question...what is a true Christian? With as many sects and denominations, who is right? Within Christianity there are at least a couple of dozen different view points. All of them can't be right or they'd be the same denomination.

Is following a certain church’s doctrine necessary? Or is it more important to have a relationship with God on a one to one basis? I have major problems with “organized” religion. My relationship with God is just that…mine. Through out the history of the church, it seems to me that it has been more of a political, cultural organization than one that fosters and nurtures people along the road.

[Talon84x4]

Which brings up the question...what is a true Christian? With as many sects and denominations, who is right? Within Christianity there are at least a couple of dozen different view points. All of them can't be right or they'd be the same denomination.

Is following a certain church’s doctrine necessary? Or is it more important to have a relationship with God on a one to one basis? I have major problems with “organized” religion. My relationship with God is just that…mine. Through out the history of the church, it seems to me that it has been more of a political, cultural organization than one that fosters and nurtures people along the road.

Hope you guys don't mind me joining in but...

My thoughts exactly.  I've been to a few churches in my area, through junior high and high school as a friend's family searched for a church, as well as with my mother and sister.  But althroughout, no matter where I went I kept it as that personal relationship between me and God.

Also everywhere I went I saw the politics, and conflict within that church itself. The gossip, the divisions...   I think a lot of the children understand better than the adults.

(1) I believe they do exist, wether or not they're personal beings or flesh and blood 

(2) A lot of things can influence people, so I guess i'd go with yes. Wether or not you take and run with it is up to the person themself

(3) Not so sure about the possessing someone, guess that would go back to the devil in personal form. I'd go more along the lines of consuming a life & soul.

(4)    Not to clear on this kind of thing, i've heard stories of people working to cast out demons, but the person was always praying that God would cast out the demon, not the person demanding the demon to leave as if it was by their own means... 

[4inchToyotas]

It is not We as humans/mortals who cast out demons. We physically do not have the "power". It is the power that comes from in this case, the Holy Spirit. All demons know of IIRC fear Jesus (in addition to the rest of the trinity). It is the work of the Holy Spirit that will remove the demon from someone.

IMO demons do not exist in a flesh/blood form. They are always around however. Sin is the influence of Satan anbd demons. If they did not exist there wouldn't be killing, death etc. And I have had close friends that have, according to their accounts, witnessed the removal of demonic spirits.

Being a true Christian does not involve being part of the Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, etc. It's about belief that Jesus was fully God and fully man, was sent as a sacrifice for humanity's sins and by belief in this and choosing to follow the example he set. Denominations came about as the result of different people having different interpretation of what the Bible says. There are many times where I do not believe what some Baptists believe (although I consider myself a Southern Baptist) and instead lean more toward what a Methodist might believe. It's about interpretation. But the true focus should be on the relationship with God and the living of one's life according to what has been commanded.

Typed this at work, there may be some flaws as I have not proofed it yet.

[abnormaltoy]

Jesus was fully God and fully man

Which brings up another question, I promise I'm not trying to contrary, I just have questions. I haven't read the book, but why did so many people get upset over the "DaVinci Code" and the premise that Christ married? If, as I believe, Jesus is God made flesh why wouldn't he have married? It's all part of the "human experience". His ministry didn't start at birth, it started well after the time when men his age would've gotten married and started a family.

[chim]

I do believe that demons/ evil spirits can and do take fleshly form. Look at the instance where Christ himnself cast out demons out of a man, and the demons asked if they could posess the bodies of the pigs.. Christ allowed it and the demons posessed the pigs and ran off a cliff or something and died. (Sorry for the rough paraphrase).

I agree with 4inchT100 - That being a "True Christain" is all about our personal relationship with Jesus Christ who is God come in the Flesh, God Himself. And that if we really are a true christian that we are a regenerate person that produces fruit of the Holy Spirit. Its not enough to say we believe and then go on living in sin. The bible says that many will say Lord, Lord.. but Christ will say He never knew them. To be truly saved is to repent and turn away from sin and realize that its only through the atoning sacrifice that we can return to be with God. Its not about following some organizations set of rules... or any rules that man has made. Its about following what the Bible says because its the Word of God. But the Bible also says that we should not forsake the fellowship with the saints, being that we should find a good body of believers that helps us grow in our walk with the Lord. Wether it be methodist, Baptist, non-denomination..  whatever... because all these different denominations hold to the core of Christain creeds about the trinity and salvation. Its only when the Word is perverted that it causes many to be lost.. such as mormonism, jehovahs witnesses, scientology, masonry.. whatever.. Its good to have differences within the church, because if we didnt what would challenge us to learn and grow in our walk and our knowledge of Gods word.. its all good until it causes division among the body.

[chim]

Hope you guys don't mind me joining in but...

Also everywhere I went I saw the politics, and conflict within that church itself. The gossip, the divisions...   I think a lot of the children understand better than the adults.

I think eventually you will find something wrong no matter where you go.. its human nature.. we are naturally sinful. IF there was one true perfect church we would all be silly to not be a part of it. Too many people use this as an excuse to not attend church at all, but thats all it is.. an excuse.. You can have a relationship with God without going.. but I guarantee its not going to be as fullfilling and rewarding and you probably wont grow like you need to unless you are fellowshipping somewhere... Just dont let anyone tell you that you have to go to so and so place to have that relationship or to be saved.. but there are many we can tell you NOT to go to!

[Talon84x4]

I know, I guess I was just stating the obvious that not everyone there has the same intentions or is there for the same purpose.

[chim]

You are very right, and thats really too bad..... I would say a very large amount of people go there for social purposes or to be entertained... 

[BLACKDOG]

bd, to answer your question first,

Yes, demons and fallen angels are two VERY different things.  Am I sure what exactly demons are? no, not really.  Fallen angels are just that, angels that fell out of grace with God because of their "stupidity" in following Satan and turning from God.

Which brings up the question...what is a true Christian? With as many sects and denominations, who is right? Within Christianity there are at least a couple of dozen different view points. All of them can't be right or they'd be the same denomination.

Is following a certain church’s doctrine necessary? Or is it more important to have a relationship with God on a one to one basis? I have major problems with “organized” religion. My relationship with God is just that…mine. Through out the history of the church, it seems to me that it has been more of a political, cultural organization than one that fosters and nurtures people along the road.

  this is one of the hardest things I have to deal with.  Personally, and I know this is pretty extreme, but I believe that "denominations" are Satan's way of messing with the church, and discouraging believers, and turning them against each other.  I believe in order to be a "Christian," you must acknowledge Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, that he is the one and only Son of God, and that through his grace alone can you get to heaven.  There are other aspects, but that is about as basic as I think I can get A relationship with other believers is also important, due to the accountability we have for one another.  We also benefit from the fellowship.  HOWEVER, Jesus didn't say, "alright, now that you've accepted me, you've got to be Baptist, or SDA, or Methodist."  I think those came later, to divide the believers, and turn them against each other, as I stated before.  Can you imagine how widespread the Word would be, and how many people could be reached if all the different denominations could work together?

I guess my thoughts on denominations would be that we're all going and pointing out the slivers in each others eyes, and ignoring the logs in our own. 

I hope this makes sense to someone besides me  

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Which brings up another question, I promise I'm not trying to contrary, I just have questions. I haven't read the book, but why did so many people get upset over the "DaVinci Code" and the premise that Christ married? If, as I believe, Jesus is God made flesh why wouldn't he have married? It's all part of the "human experience". His ministry didn't start at birth, it started well after the time when men his age would've gotten married and started a family.

The ironic thing about the DaVinci Code is that it is pure fiction.  I think Tom Hanks even stated it directly.  I have not read the book or seen the movie, but I do believe that Satan uses methods like these to confuse us.  A true Christian that has a foundation in the Bible shouldn't get caught up in "beliefs" that are created in the secular world.  I'm not saying it is wrong to watch the movie, just that many people are very gullible. 

Yes, demons and fallen angels are two VERY different things.  Am I sure what exactly demons are? no, not really.  Fallen angels are just that, angels that fell out of grace with God because of their "stupidity" in following Satan and turning from God.

I guess I would ask what evidence there is to support that fallen angels are not demons?

Now I'm going to try and compress some of the information that I have on casting out demons.  Give me a few minutes. 

[Talon84x4]

I hear ya blackdog 

If we could all pull those logs out and see eye to eye...there'd be no telling how much we could change things.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

i'm sorry for the length of the post, I don't know how to shorten it anymore.

The things in quotes are from the book “More Increadible Answers to Prayer” by Roger Morneau who also wrote “Trip into the Supernatural” which is about his experience being involved in spirit worship.  He has an amazing story.

*****

“According to Mrs. Doherty, when her daughter commands in the name of Jesus for the spirits to leave her, they laugh and say that there is no way she can make them go away.”

“First, let me draw your attention to the fact that some of those who will find themselves among the wicked…will have had active careers of casting demons out of people.  Listen to the words of Jesus:”

Mat 7:22-23  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  (23)  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Deu 18:10-12  There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,  (11)  Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.  (12)  For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

“During my affiliation with demon worshipers I was amazed to discover that they classified spirits into three distinct groups.  The ‘friendly’ spirits were those who specialized in deceiving people.  Lying spirits, they love to appear as the supposed spirits of the dead.”

“The other two groups they named were the ‘warriors’ and the ‘oppressors.’  The ‘warriors,’ they said, concentrate on causing discord in families, hatred among classes of society, and outright wars among nations.  The last group, the ‘oppressors,’ find their greatest delight in inflicting misery and destruction on people.”

“Besides God’s express command not to converse with spirits, there is still another reason we should avoid dealings with deliverance ministries.  To rebuke spirits as such people do is to take onto oneself a divine attribute.  Those who practice deliverance ministries are actually putting themselves in the role of God Himself.  Only God has the right or power to rebuke demons.”

“Let me explain by sharing with you a few passages of Scripture.  If you go to a concordance and look up the use of the word ‘rebuke’ in the Old Testament, you will notice an interesting thing: God is the one who does the rebuking.  Often He rebukes the sea, an Old Testament symbol of the evil or anything else that opposes God.”

Psa 18:15,  Psa 104:5-7,  Psa 106:9,  Isa 50:2,  Nah 1:3-4 

Mat 8:23-27  And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him,  (24)  And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.  (25)  And his disciples came to him and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.  (26)  And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.  (27)  But the men marveled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!

“After Jesus rebuked the stormy Sea of Galilee, they exclaim to each other, ‘What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!’  Because they were steeped in Scripture, they sensed that Jesus had done something that only the Lord God Himself could and had the right to do.”

“But besides rebuking the sea as a symbol of evil, God in the Bible rebukes something else: Satan and those forces the devil employs against God and His people.”

Zec 3:1-2,  Psa 76:9-12,  Isa 17:13,  Mar 1:21-27,  Mar 8:33 

“What does this mean?  Jesus has the right to rebuke demons and the forces of evil.  It is His divine attribute.  The disciples cast out demons because Jesus had commissioned them to do so for a time.  But to take the attribute upon ourselves is to put ourselves in the place of God.”

*****

Now compare this verse to the story at the beginning of this post.

Act 19:13-16  Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.  (14)  And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.  (15)  And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?  (16)  And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

I wish he would have provided some specific evidence to support his belief that the disciples were commissioned temporarily in a different way than the average Christian.  There is evidence, that the spirits recognized them over others.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

NEW TOPIC:

1 Peter 3:18-20 is one of the most difficult texts in the Bible for many people to clearly understand.  Here is the very short version of something that I recently read that helped to solidify my understanding of the text.

1Pe 3:18-20  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he [Christ] might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:  (19)  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;  (20)  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

A verse earlier in 1 Peter links the Spirit of Christ, preaching and the Holy Ghost.

1Pe 1:10-12  Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:  (11)  Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.  (12)  Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

A text in Romans helps us understand the word "quicken". 

Rom 8:11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

A study of the gospels shows many examples of Jesus setting people free from sin.  Here is one example:

Joh 8:32-36  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.  (33)  They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?  (34)  Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.  (35)  And the servant abideth not in the house forever: but the Son abideth ever.  (36)  If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Now compare the following verses:

2Pe 2:5  And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Heb 11:7  By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Gen 6:3  And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.

It is clear that Noah was a "preacher of righteousness" and was filled with the Spirit of God.

Now look at the following texts to help understand the meaning of spirits in the phrase "Spirits in Prison."

Heb 12:9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Heb 12:23  To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

It is key to note that we are only able to accept the gospel while we are yet alive.

Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Ecc 9:10  Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Now read the original text in the context of all of these texts, there are two versions.

1Pe 3:18-20  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit [Holy Spirit or Spirit of God]:  (19)  By which [Spirit of God] also he [through Noah] went and preached unto the spirits in prison [sinful man];  (20)  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Pe 3:18-20  That's what Christ did definitively: suffered because of others' sins, the Righteous One for the unrighteous ones. He went through it all--was put to death and then made alive--to bring us to God.  (19)  He went and proclaimed God's salvation to earlier generations who ended up in the prison of judgment  (20)  because they wouldn't listen. You know, even though God waited patiently all the days that Noah built his ship, only a few were saved then, eight to be exact--saved from the water by the water.

 

[BLACKDOG]

So the second version is the theory that Christ went into Hell (prison of judgemnt) to save some of those that were condemned ?

[blackdiamond [OP]]

So the second version is the theory that Christ went into Hell (prison of judgemnt) to save some of those that were condemned ?

The two versions seem to say the same thing to me.

"He went and proclaimed God's salvation to earlier generations who ended up in the prison of judgment  (20)  because they wouldn't listen."

The wicked were preached to and because they didn't listen are under judgement and did not accept the gift of being set free.

[BLACKDOG]

The two versions seem to say the same thing to me.

"He went and proclaimed God's salvation to earlier generations who ended up in the prison of judgment  (20)  because they wouldn't listen."

The wicked were preached to and because they didn't listen are under judgement and did not accept the gift of being set free.

The earlier generations thing is throwing me off.  It isn't saying the same thing  to me. 

*EDIT*

It is key to note that we are only able to accept the gospel while we are yet alive.

Read through the original post and saw this   its clearer now, but the wording still doesn't make sense to me?  Earlier generations  

Sorry, can you try to explain that a little better? 

[blackdiamond [OP]]

The earlier generations thing is throwing me off.  It isn't saying the same thing  to me. 

*EDIT*

Read through the original post and saw this   its clearer now, but the wording still doesn't make sense to me?  Earlier generations  

Sorry, can you try to explain that a little better? 

I think you are getting past & present confused.

He went and proclaimed God's salvation [Through the Holy Spirit] to earlier generations [this happened in the past during the lifetime of the previous generations] who ended up in the prison of judgment  (20)  because they wouldn't listen [The wicked did not choose to be set free from sin or judgement].

This is a very difficult text to understand.

[chim]

Many commentaries and the text suggest that he went and heralded the message accross the great gulf. More like he was confirming the message of the gospel that Noah and others had tried to warn the people about. Not that he was giving anyone a second chance. Because there are no second chances after death.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Many commentaries and the text suggest that he went and heralded the message accross the great gulf. More like he was confirming the message of the gospel that Noah and others had tried to warn the people about. Not that he was giving anyone a second chance. Because there are no second chances after death.

Here is what I think you are saying, correct me if I'm wrong.

Many commentaries and the text suggest that he [Christ] went and heralded the message [preached] accross the great gulf [people in hell?]. More like he [Christ] was confirming the message of the gospel [showing the wicked their errors] that Noah and others had tried to warn the people about. Not that he [Christ] was giving anyone a second chance. Because there are no second chances after death.

I have looked at commentaries on this text in both SDA and non-SDA resources and until I read the most recent one, which was part of the study notes by HMS Richards who was an early SDA preacher, in my preferred Bible, did I feel that I actually understood what it said.  The SDA Bible Commentary had three variations listed but did not provide and specific evidence to support them.  My wife's Bible has several possibilities, but again they didn't provide any scriptural references to support them.

[chim]

Greek for 2784
 
Pronunciation Guide
kerusso {kay-roos'-so}
 
TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 3:697,430 of uncertain affinity
Part of Speech
v
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to be a herald, to officiate as a herald

a) to proclaim after the manner of a herald

b) always with the suggestion of formality, gravity and an authority which must be listened to and obeyed

2) to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done

3) used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers


 
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 61
AV - preach 51, publish 5, proclaim 2, preached + 2258 2,
     preacher 1; 61
 
Thayer's Lexicon (Help)
 
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Also... I do not agree that it is "Hell" as in what most people think..