Topic: Advanced Theology :P

[BLACKDOG]

Thanks for the title chim!

Carrying over from the Christ thread, I think this should be our next topic, however; in order to prevent what happened last time from happening again, I would request that we all respecteach others beliefs.  State your points, and use the Bible to back them up, but please, do not go after a person's denomination, or accuse them of not having the Holy Spirit in them.  That is for God to decide, not man, so please don't do it here   If you can't do that, please don't post


Gentlemen (and ladies) no hitting below the belt, and lets have a clean fight!! 

Quote from: blackdiamond on April 16, 2006, 02:04:34 pm
My next proposed topic of discussion would have been...

Was it possible for Christ to sin while on earth?  If so, what would have happened?  If not, what was the sacrifice?

I would still love to see what you guys think, I suspect that there will be some disagreement from my memory of this topic being "brushed" previously and some PM traffic with BD.

God Bless     


I believe it was possible for Christ to have sinned.  If it were not, the fact that he lived a sinless life would be moot, and his death on the cross to cover our sins would be pointless.  Also, if he were not able to sin, then there would have been no point in tempting him, however, satan did anyway
 

[jimbo74]

i beleive christ could have sinned if he wanted to, but he chose not to..... part of christs teachings gives us the choice to discern what we beleive to be right or wrong. sinning is part of being mortal, and its that mortal existence that allows us to sin

[Lady Di]

did someone say sin?   

Sorry, couldn't hep mysef!

I just popped in to let you know I don't follow these religious threads, and I know FFC has not be as active as she once was on the board so if there is any problem in here please let me know.
You can just click the Report to moderator at the bottom right of an inappropriate post or PM me. I appreciate your help.
 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread

Carry on

  

[*FFC*]

I believe he had the ability to sin, but chose not to, cuz if he had it would have defeated his point of being on earth.

[blackdiamond]

As of yet I am not ready to officially join the discussion again, but I needed to post to make my luking easier.

I may be back sooner than I was expecting; I joined Christian discussion board and so far there are two main groups of people: (1) The "Holy Rollers" that enjoy trying to sound theologically deep, and like to argure about if a Bible translation is valid based on the translation of a single word that they don't agree with. (2) The people that have nothing to say but the PAT answers.  There are some "real" people as well, but I'm not sure I can stomach the others for a long period of time.

I added the saying under my avitar, "Watch out for the PAT answer Police," and my signature is Officer #001.  I am waiting to give my first ticket 

Just so everyone knows, I think it would be fair to say that I have taken the majority of the  and that is OK with me.  I am taking a break because the discussion was at a point where someone needed to step back so that the discussion could continue in a productive way.

I'll be watching, so please don't let me 

[chim]

Im "Lurking" too...  I just have a few other topics I have to get done this week.. but thats a good thing, because it means the Lord is at work

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

well, this isn't any fun   no one is disagreeing  

[Wermz84]

well, this isn't any fun   no one is disagreeing  

I'm no expert but.  The verse that says "Satan took him into the desert and tempted him for 40 days", so since he's there being tempted, doesn't that mean that he could have chosen to if he wanted to.     just my take on that.   


and I don't know what started this.

And what's a PAT answer?  I think of the ambiguous SNL character.

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

Wermz, this is a continuation of a conversation existing in the "What do you think of Christ thread"  we decided to move it to seperate the topics again. 

As for a PAT answer, I'm really not sure

[chim]

Maybe we should discuss "tongues" ..  im sure we all think differently on that...

[Wermz84]

Wermz, this is a continuation of a conversation existing in the "What do you think of Christ thread"  we decided to move it to seperate the topics again. 

As for a PAT answer, I'm really not sure

Gotcha thanks.     too big to fit into one thread anymore.

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

Maybe we should discuss "tongues" ..  im sure we all think differently on that...

sure, start us off

Wermz, pretty much

[blackdiamond]

As for a PAT answer, I'm really not sure

PAT - Point After Try...or...the easy obvious answer.

If you have ever sat in a class and had a fellow student that always answered using the bold face words in the book but didn't really understand anything, then you know what a PAT answer is.

In the religious setting if I were to ask, "How do I get to know Christ?" and the PAT response, "Sit at His feet," or, "Meet Him at the Cross."  These have no practical value and are really nothing more than religious slogans.

Understand?   

[johnnygalt]

I believe what you define as "pat" are more correctly called platitudes.

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

PAT - Point After Try...or...the easy obvious answer.

If you have ever sat in a class and had a fellow student that always answered using the bold face words in the book but didn't really understand anything, then you know what a PAT answer is.

In the religious setting if I were to ask, "How do I get to know Christ?" and the PAT response, "Sit at His feet," or, "Meet Him at the Cross."  These have no practical value and are really nothing more than religious slogans.

Understand?   

aha!! we call them church answers

the basics that'll get you by

Go to church, read your Bible, and pray 

[blackdiamond]

 

 

 

Are we all just lurking now? 

[blackdiamond]

NEW TOPIC! 

What does the Bible say about the Age of Accountability?

Personally, I don't really know of anything.

I talked to my pastor this morning and the only two things he told me were the following:

(1) Old Testament Jews considered 12 or 13 to be the age of accountability (bar mitzvah).

(2) Samuel heard the voice of God somewhere around the age of 4.

The general understanding is that anyone that dies under the age of accountability goes to heaven, but does the Bible say anything specific on the subject?

The only potential problem is that the only thing we take to heaven is our character, so if a child isn't raised to have a "good" character (which forms in the first few years) would it make sense for them to be in heaven?  Maybe we are responsible for our children's salvation?

I really don't know 

[chim]

Mormons think this age is 8 no matter what the mental capacity of the child... personally, I believe that the "age" depends on the mental/ emotional maturity of the child.. some kids have a better grasp of things than others... but ultimatley I believe in Gods perfect judgement, and the fact that he knows our hearts..... 

[blackdiamond]

I guess it "boils" down to two questions:

(1) What does the Bible say about it, if anything?

(2) Do you believe that children under the age of accountability are automatically saved or does it have anything to do with their parents?

[BLACKDOG [OP]]

Personally, I beleive that The age of accountability is dependent on a persons maturity, and intellectual capacity.  If that were not the case, then that opens up the can of worms called pre destination.  In order to think that the age of accountability was not based on mental capacity, you would be saying that God condemns certain people to hell right off the bat.  What about mentally disabled people?  they may be 50, but have the mentality of a 6 year old.

[blackdiamond]

Here is some prophetic evidence of the Bible truth.

Dan 2:31-45 KJVR  Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.  (32)  This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,  (33)  His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.  (34)  Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces.  (35)  Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.  (36)  This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.  (37)  Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.  (38)  And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.  (39)  And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.  (40)  And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.  (41)  And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.  (42)  And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.  (43)  And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.  (44)  And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.  (45)  Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

How does known history match?

The Bible is quite direct in stating that the Head of Gold is Nebuchadnezzar and the kingdom of Babylon.

Babylon collapsed in 539 B.C when Cyrus the Persian diverted the mighty Euphrates River.  This event in itself fulfills prophecy, see Isaiah 44:27 to 45:2.

The Medo-Persian Empire governed the known world for a couple of centuries and then collapsed in 331 B.C. when the Macedonians (Greeks) led by Alexander the Great defeated the Persians in the battle of Arbela.

After Alexander’s death the empire was divided into four parts under four of his generals and in 168 B.C. the Greek Empire was finally dismantled by the Romans who ruled when Christ was on earth.

Just as the Bible predicted, there would not be fifth empire.  The Roman Empire crumbled as barbarian tribes from Europe laid siege to it.  It finally collapsed in 476 A.D. and was divided into ten pieces.  Over the next 1500 years, seven of the ten fragments evolved into the modern nations of Western Europe.

This prophecy covers over 2,000 years of earth’s history.  I have not provided the specific references for the history, but most of it is easily verified.

This prophecy also is linked to events in Revelation where the history of the ten nations is spelled out in greater detail.

Now that we have established that Daniel’s prophecies can be counted on, let’s take a look at another important one.

Dan 9:23-27 KJVR  At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to show thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.  (24)  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.  (25)  Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.  (26)  And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.  (27)  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is known as the “seventy-week” prophecy of Daniel.

In Bible prophecy it is generally understood that a prophetic day is a literal year.

In verse 24 Seventy weeks are referenced which is 70 weeks x 7 days a week equals 490 prophetic days or literal years.  This gives us a baseline for the time period of the prophecy.

The next step is to determine the starting and ending points or the time period is useless.

Verse 25 says, “from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until the Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks…”

This tells us that there will be a total of 69 weeks from the time that the decree is given to rebuild the city of Jerusalem until the Messiah appears.  This would be 69 weeks x 7 days a week is 490 prophetic days or literal years.

There were four decrees given by Persian kings after the fall of Babylon for the Israelites to go back to their land and rebuild the city of Jerusalem.  The first two (537 B.C. & 520 B.C.) failed to accomplish anything significant.  The third decree, given by Artaxerxes in 457 B.C. (recorded in the book of Ezra) made rebuilding of Jerusalem a reality.  Artaxerxes not only gave the command, he also financed the project, see Ezra 7:11-26.

The starting point then becomes 457 B.C.  Gabriel promised that 483 years later the Messiah would appear.  457 B.C. plus 483 years takes us to 27 A.D (there is no zero year between B.C. & A.D.).

Did anything significant happen in 27 A.D.?

Luk 3:1 KJVR  Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

Luk 3:21-22 KJVR  Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,  (22)  And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Luke chapter 3 links a known year in history to Christ’s baptism where his earthy ministry officially began.  At first look it appears that Tiberius Caesar began his reign in 14 A.D. which would place his 15 year later than 27 A.D.; however, additional research shows that this is true from a Roman perspective, but from a Jewish perspective he was made ruler over Judea a few years earlier.

What is the reason for the 69 weeks being split into 7 weeks and 62 weeks?  7 weeks, or 49 prophetic days or 49 literal years was the period of rebuilding ending in 408 B.C. followed by 62 weeks or 434 literal years of waiting for the Messiah.

Verse 27 says that, “he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.”

This is talking about the final week of the prophecy.  The middle of the week would be 3-1/2 years, or 31 A.D. when Christ was crucified.

So how is the full 70 weeks explained if Christ died prior to the end of the prophecy?  Remember that the prophecy said that 490 years were set aside for Daniel’s people, or Israel.

Did anything significant happen in 34 A.D. which is the conclusion of the prophecy?

In 34 A.D. Stephen was stoned, see Acts chapter 7.  As a result of this event many Christians were forced to scatter all over the known world because they were being persecuted by a man named Saul (later known as Paul).  The stoning of Stephen was the catalysis that sent the gospel to the whole gentile world and it was not longer only for Israel.

These two prophecies are an amazing testament to the truth and correctness of the Bible!   

[blackdiamond]