How many religions...(Discussion Moved to Christ Thread)

[BLACKDOG]

How do you feel about states putting up the 10 copmmandments in court houses..I feel its wrong..I don't want to see that on the wall..it could very well be offensive to some..I feel it goes beyond boundries of separation of church and state..

Actually, the separation fo church and state was started for an entirely different purpose.  Ir was imposed in order to keep a church organization from ruling the nation, and decreeing aq state sponsored religion, like in England (catholic church and the church of england come to mind)

I do not have a problem with the ten commandments, because other than the 1st one, they are perfectly acceptable laws for society.   Also, as much as people dislike it, this is a Christian nation, and was founded as such.  Many of the founding fathers were leaders in their churches, and the early documents of our contry reflect that

[blackdiamond]

Obviously, I have no problem with it since I am a Christian and the country was originally founded on Christian principles.  I think that the ruling was a little strange since a 6 foot monument was acceptable but a wall hanging was outlawed.  I think that the 10 commandments should be allowed to be displayed until the phrase, "In God We Trust," is taken off of our money.

Once again we are off topic a bit.  The intent of this thread is to explore the different religions and/or beliefs represented on the board.

I have a question for anyone that believes in the rapture.  The following text is one that is often used as a basis for the belief

Matthew 24:36-41 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood cam and took them all away.  That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.  Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.  Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."  NIV

The Rapture seems like a reasonable interpretation of the text until you go back to verse 30 for the context.

Matthew 24:30-31 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.  They will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory."  NIV

and then read, and understand it, in combination with:

I Thessalonians 4:15-17 "According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.  For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.  After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.  And so we will be with the Lord forever.  Therefore, encourage each other with these words."  NIV

We are all waiting for the wonderful day that Christ will return so that we can meet Him in the air and go to heaven.  The Bible is very clear that we do not know the day nor the hour that Christ will return (thief in the night); however, it is also very clear that it is going to be a glorious and powerful event that we will all see.  The righteous will rise to meet the Lord and the wicked will be killed by the brightness of His coming.

Two people can be working together, one righteous and one wicked, and when the Lord appears, the righteous person will rise to meet their Lord and the wicked person will be killed by the brightness of His coming.  I think the Bible mentions that the wicked will beg the mountains to fall on them to shield the from His glory.  Sin cannot exist in His presence.

I know of one other text in Luke that is similar to Matthew 36-41 that is also used to support the rapture, but considering the context that is provided in Matthew and the many other texts that say that, "Every eye shall see Him," and describe the destruction of the wicked, I can't make a logical connection with the rapture.

[crawlerdan]

Obviously, I have no problem with it since I am a Christian and the country was originally founded on Christian principles.  I think that the ruling was a little strange since a 6 foot monument was acceptable but a wall hanging was outlawed.  I think that the 10 commandments should be allowed to be displayed until the phrase, "In God We Trust," is taken off of our money.

Once again we are off topic a bit.  The intent of this thread is to explore the different religions and/or beliefs represented on the board.

I have a question for anyone that believes in the rapture.  The following text is one that is often used as a basis for the belief

Matthew 24:36-41 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood cam and took them all away.  That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.  Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.  Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."  NIV

The Rapture seems like a reasonable interpretation of the text until you go back to verse 30 for the context.

Matthew 24:30-31 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.  They will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory."  NIV

and then read, and understand it, in combination with:

I Thessalonians 4:15-17 "According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.  For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.  After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.  And so we will be with the Lord forever.  Therefore, encourage each other with these words."  NIV

We are all waiting for the wonderful day that Christ will return so that we can meet Him in the air and go to heaven.  The Bible is very clear that we do not know the day nor the hour that Christ will return (thief in the night); however, it is also very clear that it is going to be a glorious and powerful event that we will all see.  The righteous will rise to meet the Lord and the wicked will be killed by the brightness of His coming.

Two people can be working together, one righteous and one wicked, and when the Lord appears, the righteous person will rise to meet their Lord and the wicked person will be killed by the brightness of His coming.  I think the Bible mentions that the wicked will beg the mountains to fall on them to shield the from His glory.  Sin cannot exist in His presence.

I know of one other text in Luke that is similar to Matthew 36-41 that is also used to support the rapture, but considering the context that is provided in Matthew and the many other texts that say that, "Every eye shall see Him," and describe the destruction of the wicked, I can't make a logical connection with the rapture.

i hope its soon! i really dont like this place, knowing theres somewhere better

[gonzo]

i hope its soon! i really dont like this place, knowing theres somewhere better

That's an interesting statement.....The same faith, that you use to know that there is a better place, is what you should use to make this a better place for yourself.  Is that possible ?

[crawlerdan]

its just hard for me to deal with all the crap in life, knowing that someday i wont have to, you know?

[BLACKDOG]

That's an interesting statement.....The same faith, that you use to know that there is a better place, is what you should use to make this a better place for yourself.  Is that possible ?

That is how I get along gonzo   actually, I look forward to Christ's coming, but I also love my time on earth.  I have a wonderful family, a loving girlfriend, and a great group of friends.  Somedays I wake up and I just wish thart it would be today, but then other days I just have a great day, and I thank God for what he has given me.  I also enjoy the challenge of looking on the bright side.  I look forward to going home, and hearing God say, "well done my good and faithful servant" I want to hear it soon, but at the same time I dont

[gonzo]

its just hard for me to deal with all the crap in life, knowing that someday i wont have to, you know?

Yes.....I understand all to well.  I believe that God has given you every thing you need to be happy on this earth.  Dealing with the "crap" is part of cultivating "flowers".
Making choices is part of that gift.  What you choose to do is up to you.  Some times you need to ask him for help so you can use what he has given you.  It takes courage to deal with the growing of flowers.

  Good luck.

[gonzo]

That is how I get along gonzo actually, I look forward to Christ's coming, but I also love my time on earth. I have a wonderful family, a loving girlfriend, and a great group of friends. Somedays I wake up and I just wish thart it would be today, but then other days I just have a great day, and I thank God for what he has given me. I also enjoy the challenge of looking on the bright side. I look forward to going home, and hearing God say, "well done my good and faithful servant" I want to hear it soon, but at the same time I dont

Have you heard the song "It's an awful wonderful life" (I think that's the title), I don't know who sings it, but I crank it up on the radio every time I hear it (country and western).  It just "talks to me" when I hear it.  My girl friend knows that if we are in the truck and that song is played that our conversation will have to wait cause I'll be cranking the volume.  She is actually starting to sing it along with me   when it's over we start our conversation again.  For the most part life is good for me.  The second coming is not something I ponder to much.  I don't know when it will happen so it is something that is not worth worrying about or thinking about.  Living the life that God would want me to is what I should be doing. 

[crawlerdan]

Yes.....I understand all to well.  I believe that God has given you every thing you need to be happy on this earth.  Dealing with the "crap" is part of cultivating "flowers".
Making choices is part of that gift.  What you choose to do is up to you.  Some times you need to ask him for help so you can use what he has given you.  It takes courage to deal with the growing of flowers.

Good luck.

i agree, but that doesnt make it any more fun, Jesus said" i say it will be worth it, never that it will be easy" refering to lifes battles

[blackdiamond]

The parable of the 10 virgins, with their oil filled lamps, waiting for the bridegroom to come tells us that we should be prepared for Christ's coming at any time because we don't know when it is.  This brings another thought to mind...

For people who believe in "Once-saved-always-Saved" why would it be important to be prepared for His coming?  If you can't lose (or choose to give up) your salvation, why would got tell us to be prepared?  The virgins were not prepared and ran out of oil causing their lamps to burn out.  It sounds to me like there is something that we must continually do to be prepared (saved) for His coming.

Anybody going to take a turn on the rapture subject (post #301)?

For me the rapture and once-saved-always-saved seem don't make any sense so I am trying to learn about the beliefs so that I can (1) understand, (2) make my choice, and (3) defend my belief better in the future.

[germ]

Hmmmm, I'm going to have to think/read on that one (rapture) and will see if I can get some inspiration. I'll post up later.

As for the coming of Christ...Part of me hopes it comes soon, but there is also a part of me that wants to continue with life as we know it now. Have to say that overall, my life is very good right now, and don't necessarily want it to stop. Not to say I don't want to be in heaven, but I'd like to see how things play out for a while.

Just my 2 cents.

Erik

[BLACKDOG]

Have you heard the song "It's an awful wonderful life" (I think that's the title), I don't know who sings it, but I crank it up on the radio every time I hear it (country and western).  It just "talks to me" when I hear it.  My girl friend knows that if we are in the truck and that song is played that our conversation will have to wait cause I'll be cranking the volume.  She is actually starting to sing it along with me   when it's over we start our conversation again.  For the most part life is good for me.  The second coming is not something I ponder to much.  I don't know when it will happen so it is something that is not worth worrying about or thinking about.  Living the life that God would want me to is what I should be doing. 

You mean this one?  Darryl Whorley sings it   That song is awesome, it really describes my lifes attitude as well.  That is why I like Country music, I feel a lot of it discribes me and my life.  I would encourage you to check out VanZant's new CD if you like this song, its got some similar ones on there

I woke up early with a poundin' in my head
I'd been out the night before with all my friends
A little worried, kinda wonderin' what I did
I said, " Lord, please forgive me for my sins."
My wife wanted to kill me, but she tried to save me first
"You're goin' if I have to drag your butt to church."

I love this crazy, tragic,
Sometimes almost magic,
Awful, beautiful life

I read the hymns and kinda sorta sang along
And made it through the Sunday sermon wide awake
We met the family for dinner at our home
Drank some beer, watched a game,
and cooked some steaks
My little brother had a big fight with his wife
And my poor mother sat between them both all night

I love this crazy, tragic,
Sometimes almost magic,
Awful, beautiful life

We said a prayer for Cousin Michael in Iraq
We're all aware that he may never make it back
We talked about the way we missed his stupid jokes
And how he loved to be a soldier more than most

I laid in bed that night and thought about the day
And how my life is like a roller coaster ride
The ups and downs and crazy turns along the way
It'll throw you off if you don't hold on tight
You can't really smile until you've shed some tears
I could die today or I might live on for years

I love this crazy, tragic,
Sometimes almost magic,
Awful, beautiful life

I love this crazy, tragic,
Sometimes almost magic,
Awful, beautiful life

It's a beautiful life
Awful, beautiful, life
I love this life
It's a beautiful life
I love this life
It's a beautiful life

[mr4x42u]

God sent me a message today......He likes my avitar      

[crawlerdan]

God sent me a message today......He likes my avitar

hehehehehahaha....hum, he....sorry

[blackdiamond]

I just finished a Bible study on the old and new covenant and why we are still required to keep the Ten Commandments.  It is about 9 pages in word so it will take some time read and understand.

THE TWO COVENANTS

Was the old covenant made with the Jews and the new covenant with the Gentiles?

The old covenant was made at Sinai and was an agreement between God and Israel.

Exodus 19:3-8 "And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain saying, 'Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to Myself.  Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, the you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine.  And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel."  NKJV

Exodus 24:7-8 "Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people.  And they said, 'All that the Lord has said we will do, and be obedient.'  And Moses took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, 'This is the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you according to all these words."  NKJV

Deuteronomy 4:12-13 "And the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire.  You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; you only heard a voice.  So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone."  NKJV

God then spoke the Ten Commandments and "He added no More"

Deuteronomy 5:22 "These words (The 10 Commandments are in the preceding verses) the Lord spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more.  And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me."  NKJV

The Ten Commandments are given in Exodus 20:3-17.

Exodus 20:22 "Then the Lord said to Moses, 'Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: You have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.'"  NKJV

From Exodus 20:23 to the end of chapter 23 is an explanation of the Ten Commandments, so that the people might better understand how to keep them.

After hearing the words of the Lord repeated by Moses and then read by Moses, the people promised twice to obey.

Exodus 24:3 "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do."  NKJV

Exodus 24:7 "And he took the Book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient."  NKJV

The covenant was then sealed with the blood of a sacrifice.

Exodus 24:8 "And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, 'Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words."  NKJV

Hebrews 9:18-20 "Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.  For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people saying, 'This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.'"  NKJV

The people of Israel had voluntarily promised to make themselves righteous, for in the covenant (agreement) between God and Israel at Sinai God made no promise to help them, and they failed to ask divine aid.  Therefore, their promises to keep the Ten Commandments were just as impossible for them to fulfill as it is impossible for them to fulfill as it is impossible for us to keep these same commandments without the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.  The new covenant's "better promises" are that God Himself will forgive our past sins and write these holy commandments in our hearts by His gracious Spirit.

John 15-5 "I am the vine, you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, bears much fruit: for without me you can do nothing."  NKJV

Philippians 3:8-11 "Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead."  NKJV

2 Corinthians 3:2-3 "You are out epistle read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart."  NKJV

The Spirit will write the Ten Commandments on our hearts rather than on stone as was done for the children of Israel.

1 John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.  For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.  And His commandments are not burdensome."  NKJV

[blackdiamond]

God doesn't want his commandments to be a burden for us to keep.  What commandments other than the ones given in the Old Testament (Exodus) could be considered a burden to keep?

Isaiah 64:6 "But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away."  NKJV

Jeremiah 23:6 "In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."  NKJV

Isaiah 54:17 "...No weapon formed against you shall prosper, And every tongue which rises against you in judgment You shall condemn.  This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, And their righteousness is from Me,' Says the Lord."  NKJV

While the old covenant was based upon the promises of the people to make themselves righteous, the new covenant is based upon "Better Promises."

Hebrews 8:7-13 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.  Because finding fault with them, He says, 'Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new (second) covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah – not according to the (first) covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant ((they broke their promise to keep His laws), and I disregarded them, says the Lord.  For this is the (second) covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their minds and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.  None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.'  In that he says, 'A new (second) covenant,' He has made the first obsolete.  Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."  NKJV

Notice that this text refers to two different covenants, the second one if for the "house of Israel" and is identical to the covenant of the New Testament.  The new covenant is also made with Israel, but it is the Spiritual Israel (believers); Gentiles (unbelievers), as such, do not share its benefits.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah – not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, thought I was a husband to them, says the Lord."  NKJV

Romans 9:3 "For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for the my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the father and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God.  Amen."  NKJV

This text clearly states that we are all part of Spiritual Israel and are subject to the covenants, the giving of the law.

Ephesians 2:11-13 "Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh – who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision make in the flesh by hands – that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.  But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ."  NKJV

Romans 2:28-29 "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."  NKJV

Galatians 3:28-29 "There is neither Jew no Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.  And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."  NKJV

It is called the new or second covenant because it was not dedicated with blood till after the first or old covenant.

Hebrews 9:16-18 "For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator (one who has made a legally valid will before death).  For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.  Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood."  NKJV

The second covenant (testament) of Grace couldn't happen until after the death of Christ.

Luke 22:20 "Likewise He also took the cup after supper saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.  But behold, the hand of My betrayer is with Me on the table."  NKJV

Daniel 9:27 "Then he shall confirm a (first) covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering (ceremonial laws of Israel)..."  NKJV

It is really the Gospel in Promise and is called the Everlasting Covenant; Its promises extend back to the entrance of sin into this world, and forward to the final reward of the righteous.

[blackdiamond]

Jeremiah 31:33-34 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.  No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying 'Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord.  For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."  NKJV

The old covenant revealed the need of the new or everlasting covenant through the provision of which there is forgiveness and salvation.

Hebrews 9:13-15 "For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?  And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance." NKJV

Even the people under the old covenant can now receive salvation through the new covenant rather than just a promise.  Christ is our Mediator to God the Father so that we don't have to be burdened by where we have failed.

Hebrews 6:13, 16-20 "For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying 'Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.'...For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute.  This God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.  This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil (refers to the Most Holy Place), where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Maelchizedek."  NKJV

Romans 4:16-18 "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only those who are of the law (old covenant and promise to keep the law), but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all (as it is written, 'I have made you a father of many nations') in the presence of Him whom he believed – God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which don not exist as though they did.

Galatians 3:17-18 "And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.  For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise."  NKJV

The works of righteousness required by the law appear in our lives only as God, under the new covenant of grace, writes the law in our hearts.  We cannot keep the law on our own.

Hebrews 8:10-11 "For this is the (second) covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their minds and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.  None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.'"

John 15:4-5 "Abide in Me, and I in you.  As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.  'I am the vine, you are the branches.  He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.'"  NKJV

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."  NKJV

Hebrews 13:20-21 "Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever.  Amen."  NKJV

Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."  NKJV

Philippians 2:12-13 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."  NKJV

It is Christ working in me that changes my will and actions to do His will.

Saved by Grace

Acts 4:12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is not other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."  NKJV

Sinners saved by grace in all ages.

[blackdiamond]

Titus 2:11-15 "For the Grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works."  NKJV

Exodus 34:6 "And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, 'The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the father upon the children and the children's children to the third and fourth generation."  NKJV

Some say that people were saved by keeping law under the old covenant and by grace in the new.  This is a false view.  This would make a divided heaven where some were saved by their works and others on the merits of Christ.

Romans 4:6 "...just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 'Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute (to assign as a characteristic) sin.'"  NKJV

If we choose to continually ignore God and commit sin, our character will be sinful and sin cannot exist in the presence of God.  If we are seeking to do God's will and are striving to keep His law we are covered by His blood.

Note: Law and grace are not antagonistic.  It is because God's law is eternal and unchangeable, and demands the life of the lawbreaker, that grace becomes necessary if sinners are to be saved.  God's grace (unmerited favor) was taught in the sacrificial system of the Jews, in which an innocent victim died in the place of the sinner.

Psalms 19:7 "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple; The statues of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes..."  NKJV

Romans 7:12, 14, 16 "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good...For we know that the law is spiritual, but I a carnal, sold under sin...If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good."  NKJV

Matthew 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."  NKJV

Christ died for our sins because the law demanded death for them.

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."  NKJV

1 John 3:4 "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness."  NKJV

Romans 5:6 "For when men were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly."  NKJV

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 "For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no linger for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again."  NKJV

Romans 4:15 "...because the law brings about wrath; for were there is no law there is no transgression."  NKJV

Romans 3:20, 23 "Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin...for al have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..."  NKJV

Romans 6:14-15 "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.  What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?  Certainly not!  Do you not know that to whom your present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?  But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered."  NKJV

Romans 5:1-2 "Therefore, having been justified by faith , we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in home of the glory of God."  NKJV

We can't keep the law in our own strength, but Christ keeps it in our hearts by his Spirit.

1 John 2:6 "He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked."  NKJV

Psalms 40:8 "I delight to do Your will, O my God, And Your law is within my heart."  NKJV

Proverbs 4:23 "Keep your heart will all diligence, For out of it spring the issues of life."  NKJV

Proverbs 23:7 "For as he things in his heart, so is he."  NKJV

Psalms 1:2 "But his delight is in the law of the Lord, And in His law he meditates day and night."  NKJV

[blackdiamond]

Romans 7:16, 18, 22, 25 "If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good...For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find...For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man...I thank God – through Jesus Christ our Lord!"  NKJV

1 John 2:4 "He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."  NKJV

Romans 8:1-9 "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death (we don't have to die for transgression of the law).  For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh (the Israelites couldn't keep their promise in the old covenant), God did by sending His own Son (the second covenant) in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled (don't have a sinful character) in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.  For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the thing of the Sprit,  For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.  So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.  But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.  Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.  And if Christ in you, the body is death because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.  But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also gave life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

[mr4x42u]

In the bible it states incest is bad,,,like duh,,,but yet,,if adam and eve started all this,,and they were brother sister,,and had kids,,,how did this work..sombody humped there sister...

[germ]

WOW! bd, that's a ton of information. Thanks for posting it. It will take me a while to read thru it and digest it.

As for your earlier posts about Rapture, I pulled out my concordance last night, and could not find Rapture listed in the Bible at all. I then read a bit in Mark and 1John and a bit in Revelations, and your quote about the one in the field who will be taken and the one who is left. The point which struck me the most is that the Bible is very clear that WE will not have any inclination on when the end time arrives, it will come as a surprise for all of us. Once it does arrive, all will know it is happening, but by that time it is too late. As the parable about the 10 virgins, we must always be ready, for he will come at a time of His own choosing, and not according to our schedule.

Mr4x42u:

In the bible it states incest is bad,,,like duh,,,but yet,,if adam and eve started all this,,and they were brother sister,,and had kids,,,how did this work..sombody humped there sister...

Adam and Eve were created by God. They were not brother and sister. Your right though, it does seem a bit confusing, because it would seem to contradict the instructions in the Bible.

Erik

[blackdiamond]

 

This is a shameless plug for another thread that I started last night called, "Daily Bible Text."  Several of us on this thread have been discussion starting something like this so I got it going, feel free to post texts if you don't see a new one each morning.

[blackdiamond]

Can I assume that some of you are actually reading and studying the last long post I put up?  Give me a sign that I'm not wasting my time by posting my studies.

8)

[germ]

Yep, I'm reading it. Takes a while to digest all that however. Since it's fairly straight forward, there's not much to comment on, except that it's right on the money !

Erik

[crawlerdan]

Yep, I'm reading it. Takes a while to digest all that however. Since it's fairly straight forward, there's not much to comment on, except that it's right on the money !

Erik

my sentiments exactly

[BLACKDOG]

Can I assume that some of you are actually reading and studying the last long post I put up?  Give me a sign that I'm not wasting my time by posting my studies.

8)

I'm reading it slooowly, cause I am looking up most of the verses, and reading them and the ones around them.  Not cause I dont beleive you, I just want to see for myself, dig a little deeper.  Keep it up, I am finding these discussions very helpful

Do have a question though.  I do beleive we should keep the 10 commandments, I just disagree on the day of the sabbath part, but what about the other laws God laid down, such as eating animals with cloven hooves, an eye for an eye, and so forth?  I've heard many explanations, and nothing concrete.  anybody?

[blackdiamond]

I'm reading it slooowly, cause I am looking up most of the verses, and reading them and the ones around them.  Not cause I dont beleive you, I just want to see for myself, dig a little deeper.  Keep it up, I am finding these discussions very helpful

Do have a question though. I do beleive we should keep the 10 commandments, I just disagree on the day of the sabbath part, but what about the other laws God laid down, such as eating animals with cloven hooves, an eye for an eye, and so forth? I've heard many explanations, and nothing concrete. anybody?

Why do you think that God, who never changes, blessing the 7th day at creation allows for worship to be equal on any other day?  God didn't specifically bless any of the other 6 days.  I think that it is possible that there is an extra blessing (not necessarily reward) in worshiping on the seventh day Sabbath because it is an "appointment" that God made with us.

I will try to put something together for you about the other things.

[gonzo]

Can I assume that some of you are actually reading and studying the last long post I put up? Give me a sign that I'm not wasting my time by posting my studies.

8)

Yes....I'm reading it...but I move my lips when I read so it's going.....very.......slow.  Thanks blackdiamond

[crawlerdan]

lat me remind you, that spreading the word is never a waste of time. keep it commin bro!

[germ]

Do have a question though.  I do beleive we should keep the 10 commandments, I just disagree on the day of the sabbath part, but what about the other laws God laid down, such as eating animals with cloven hooves, an eye for an eye, and so forth?  I've heard many explanations, and nothing concrete.  anybody?

I know he speaks about the cloven hoof in Leviticus (can't remember the exact verses though). As for the eye for an eye this was in the Old Testament I believe, and was a way to handle punishment. I'll have to look it up to be sure. If i remember right Synwars posted some stuff about it. Unfortunatly I don't have time right now to troll thru the previous posts.

Erik