Topic: How many religions...(Discussion Moved to Christ Thread)

[blackdiamond]

I've seen too many religious people say they can basically do what they want as long as they ask for repent(?) before they die.  BULL!! 

Preach it brother!   

[NO4X]

if we lead a good clean life and didnt harm others then we would have just as much chance of getting into heaven as anybody else.

I'll pray for you, cause you in trouble.

[*FFC*]

I'll pray for you, cause you in trouble.

I disagree with you NO4X.  If someone has had a bad experience with a church or church going people, then it's not like they're just gonna up and say "Ok I'll accept your beliefs and follow you jerks". No way!! It takes the WILL to learn and follow Christ.  If you don't have the will, it won't do any good. Comments like that "cause you in trouble" are comments that would push someone away from the Word, not draw them to it.  I agree, pray for him, but don't try to make him feel guilty cuz he doesn't share the same beliefs as you. 

Just my 

[chim]

Its not his own beliefs that assume he is in trouble..  the problem is that we dance around the subject and dont care enough for people to tell them the truth. Truth is, if you want to believe it or not, is that the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. So if you dont believe in Jesus Christ you are going to Hell.. .Sure that sounds mean...  but thats why we should care enough about people and love them to let them know that being with God is a free gift.  All have sinned, there is non righteous..  thats means we all fall short of the glory of God, it doesnt matter what kind of life we lead... bottom line is if we dont have Christ, we dont have Eternal life in Heaven, we have erverlasting torment.. You can say, well I dont believe the Bible.. well thats fine too.. doesnt mean that its not real! You can believe there is no such thing as a place called Disneyland.. and you could believe that with all your heart... but just because you believe something to be true doesnt make it true. If you dont think God is real... test him! Read his word.. see if its just a scam. My eternal state is not something I would want to mess around with,. because that lasts a lot longer than here!!!

[*FFC*]

If you dont think God is real... test him!

AMEN!!!!!!

[NO4X]

Its not his own beliefs that assume he is in trouble.. the problem is that we dance around the subject and dont care enough for people to tell them the truth. Truth is, if you want to believe it or not, is that the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. So if you dont believe in Jesus Christ you are going to Hell.. .Sure that sounds mean... but thats why we should care enough about people and love them to let them know that being with God is a free gift. All have sinned, there is non righteous.. thats means we all fall short of the glory of God, it doesnt matter what kind of life we lead... bottom line is if we dont have Christ, we dont have Eternal life in Heaven, we have erverlasting torment.. You can say, well I dont believe the Bible.. well thats fine too.. doesnt mean that its not real! You can believe there is no such thing as a place called Disneyland.. and you could believe that with all your heart... but just because you believe something to be true doesnt make it true.

Chim, You have expressed my message perfectly.

[crawlerdan]

AMEN!!!!!!

IN THE END...ALL WILL BELEIVE IN THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY

[Lady Di]

there are no aetheists in fox holes?

[blackdiamond [OP]]

I can't keep the current topics straight on the different threads so I will post on this one for now.

I am currently working on Michael the archangel being Jesus Christ, the experience of Salvation, and a couple of other topics.

I try to make it a point to understand the beliefs of others that are different from my own.  I can see how people would concluded that the law was nailed to the cross or that we will burn in hell for all eternity, but the onced-saved-aways-saved (if truly saved) is completely beyond my comprehension so I will continue to ask questions about it.  I am almost positive that I have been thinking about this topic more than anything else the past few weeks.

Matthew 18-21-22 "Then Peter came to Him and said, 'Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him?  Up to seven times?'  Jesus said to him, 'I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven...'"

Matthew 18-35 "So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses."

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

We are forgiven as many times as we sin, not one big forgiveness that covers our whole life or why would we need to confess?  If we don't forgive the people that hurt (sin against us) then God will not forgive us.  I think that it is very bold to assume that because someone believes in Christ (thus having unending salvation) that they won't have times in their lives when they struggle with forgiving others (how about if your husband or wife commits adultry or kills your child), which means that God won't forgive them, right?  So it is possible to not forgive, yet still have salvation? 

[kneedownnate]

but just because you believe something to be true doesnt make it true.

Bingo!!  you couldn't have stated my point any better, I don't believe what some guy or guys wrote in a book, and subsequently many people chose to believe was the word of god(a god) to be necessarily real.  I don't know who wrote the bible, but if we all just blindly followed what some guy wrote down in a book we'd all be involved in huge cults.  Like I said, the greatest gift any of us are given, aside from the privelage of life, is a mind to be able to use to the best of our ability.  It is partially the responsability of our parents/guardians to help us learn the difference between right and wrong, and hopefully as we begin to shape our own mind we grow a better understanding of that and follow a good path.

I'm honestly not intersted in studying or researching any religion, because as I said before there are so many of them out there and it would take forever to weed through all of them to determine which ones are legit and which are not, and I have too short an attention span.  And the legitimacy of each to me would only be my personal opinion, just as is your opinion of your chosen religion.

And also, if anybody cares to pray for me you are undoubtedly wasting your prayer, which would be much better directed toward somebody that undoubtedly needs or deserves it, and has a chance to see the light.  This bulb is dimb at best.

And also again, I have had somewhat of an awakening of sorts before.  If you look closely at my avatar you'll see what used to be a straight piece of metal until my head struck it.  Considering what I went through I most definately should have died, and seeing as I didn't die and infact walked away I saw it as a warning from god.  I shouldn't have been riding the way I used to on the street and got the wake up call I needed and a second chance, and thank god every night before I fall asleep for allowing me to stay around and have a second chance at life.  You have to understand though, when I say god I'm not meaning one certain god as I've yet to see there being only one, I just know that something or somebody helped me stay alive, and they are who I am thankful toward.  Maybe it was just a cruel joke on the rest of the world by the devil.......

[jldx4]

my mom says your religon is all lies  

[jldx4]

Bingo!!   you couldn't have stated my point any better, I don't believe what some guy or guys wrote in a book, and subsequently many people chose to believe was the word of god(a god) to be necessarily real.  I don't know who wrote the bible, but if we all just blindly followed what some guy wrote down in a book we'd all be involved in huge cults.  Like I said, the greatest gift any of us are given, aside from the privelage of life, is a mind to be able to use to the best of our ability.  It is partially the responsability of our parents/guardians to help us learn the difference between right and wrong, and hopefully as we begin to shape our own mind we grow a better understanding of that and follow a good path.

I'm honestly not intersted in studying or researching any religion, because as I said before there are so many of them out there and it would take forever to weed through all of them to determine which ones are legit and which are not, and I have too short an attention span.  And the legitimacy of each to me would only be my personal opinion, just as is your opinion of your chosen religion.

And also, if anybody cares to pray for me you are undoubtedly wasting your prayer, which would be much better directed toward somebody that undoubtedly needs or deserves it, and has a chance to see the light.  This bulb is dimb at best.

And also again, I have had somewhat of an awakening of sorts before.  If you look closely at my avatar you'll see what used to be a straight piece of metal until my head struck it.  Considering what I went through I most definately should have died, and seeing as I didn't die and infact walked away I saw it as a warning from god.  I shouldn't have been riding the way I used to on the street and got the wake up call I needed and a second chance, and thank god every night before I fall asleep for allowing me to stay around and have a second chance at life.  You have to understand though, when I say god I'm not meaning one certain god as I've yet to see there being only one, I just know that something or somebody helped me stay alive, and they are who I am thankful toward.  Maybe it was just a cruel joke on the rest of the world by the devil.......

amen brother

[blackdiamond [OP]]

I can't keep the current topics straight on the different threads so I will post on this one for now.

I am currently working on Michael the archangel being Jesus Christ, the experience of Salvation, and a couple of other topics.

I try to make it a point to understand the beliefs of others that are different from my own.  I can see how people would concluded that the law was nailed to the cross or that we will burn in hell for all eternity, but the onced-saved-aways-saved (if truly saved) is completely beyond my comprehension so I will continue to ask questions about it.  I am almost positive that I have been thinking about this topic more than anything else the past few weeks.

Matthew 18-21-22 "Then Peter came to Him and said, 'Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him?  Up to seven times?'  Jesus said to him, 'I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven...'"

Matthew 18-35 "So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses."

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

We are forgiven as many times as we sin, not one big forgiveness that covers our whole life or why would we need to confess?  If we don't forgive the people that hurt (sin against us) then God will not forgive us.  I think that it is very bold to assume that because someone believes in Christ (thus having unending salvation) that they won't have times in their lives when they struggle with forgiving others (how about if your husband or wife commits adultry or kills your child), which means that God won't forgive them, right?  So it is possible to not forgive, yet still have salvation? 

When I said that I think about the once-saved-always-saved idea a bunch, I'm not kidding.  I was studying the Sabbath School (similar to Sunday School I would suspect) lesson tonight I ran accross this verse:

Revelation 2:2-5 "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil.  And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not and found them liars; and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name's sake and have not become weary.  Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.  Remember, therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place - unless you repent."

I am still thinking about this one and how it fits...but it sure sounds like God is telling them to repent or they will lose their place.

[gotrocksgirl]

I have alot of catching up to do also... I have been involved with school and such.. but I too don't agree with the once-saved-always saved idea. I believe that everyday you are to ask God into your life, try your hardest to be Christ-like, and accept Him as your Messiah. It isn't that hard to do. He doesn't ask for much.

[NO4X]

Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Notice, once you believe you possess it.  It doesn't say once you believe you can have it.

Let's look into what eternal means, in merriam-webster:

eter·nal
Pronunciation: i-'t&r-n&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin aeternalis, from Latin aeternus eternal, from aevum age, eternity -- more at AYE
1 a : having infinite duration : EVERLASTING b : of or relating to eternity c : characterized by abiding fellowship with God
2 a : continued without intermission : PERPETUAL b : seemingly endless
3 archaic : INFERNAL
4 : valid or existing at all times : TIMELESS

Definition #4 sums it up...existing at all times.  Now anwers this...How is something eternal if it can be lost?

[NO4X]

"but it sure sounds like God is telling them to repent or they will lose their place".

God is talking to a church here.  Not an individual.  Where does it say that congregations receive salvation.? 
This word, repent, means change your mind, or direction, in the greek.  Basically, this church has gotten away from their true purpose (left your first love) and are busy putting their energies into some peripheral doctrine, and have quit leading people to Christ through the gospel.

Jesus is telling them to change direction, because they have become unfruitful, or they will cease being a church.  This has nothing to do with the salvation of an individual. 

[BLACKDOG]

Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Notice, once you believe you possess it.  It doesn't say once you believe you can have it.

Let's look into what eternal means, in merriam-webster:

eter·nal
Pronunciation: i-'t&r-n&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin aeternalis, from Latin aeternus eternal, from aevum age, eternity -- more at AYE
1 a : having infinite duration : EVERLASTING b : of or relating to eternity c : characterized by abiding fellowship with God
2 a : continued without intermission : PERPETUAL b : seemingly endless
3 archaic : INFERNAL
4 : valid or existing at all times : TIMELESS

Definition #4 sums it up...existing at all times.  Now anwers this...How is something eternal if it can be lost?

THank you, that explains it very well

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Notice, once you believe you possess it.  It doesn't say once you believe you can have it.

Let's look into what eternal means, in merriam-webster:

eter·nal
Pronunciation: i-'t&r-n&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin aeternalis, from Latin aeternus eternal, from aevum age, eternity -- more at AYE
1 a : having infinite duration : EVERLASTING b : of or relating to eternity c : characterized by abiding fellowship with God
2 a : continued without intermission : PERPETUAL b : seemingly endless
3 archaic : INFERNAL
4 : valid or existing at all times : TIMELESS

Definition #4 sums it up...existing at all times.  Now anwers this...How is something eternal if it can be lost?

NO4x - What are your thoughts on hell and if the unrighteous burn forever, which in my opinion is also everlasting life.

Is it not possible for me to no longer choose to believe in Christ and His sacrifice?  I don't argue that eternal life is always available to us, but we have to choose to accept it daily other wise why do we need to confess or take up our cross?

Luke 9:23 "The He said to them all, 'If anyone desires to come after Me let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.  For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.  For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed, or lost?'"

We have to deny ourselves and take up our cross daily and follow Christ.  If we are not willing to give up our earthly life, or the things of the world, we will lose our lives.  It doesn't say that we should come to Him and take up our cross ONCE and we are then OK for eternity.

[NO4X]

I'm going to get back to you on this my friend.  I don't have the time to address it fully now.  But I will.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Personally, I have having a difficult time keeping up with this thread, the Jesus Christ thread and the Bible Study thread.  I am going to suggest that all discussion from now on be on the Jesus Christ thread.  I will transfer some of the things being discussed from the Bible Study thread to the Jesus Christ thread.  Chim started the Jesus Christ thread so it isn't mine to end.  I would like to see us try to discuss fewer topics at any given time.