How many religions...(Discussion Moved to Christ Thread)

[BLACKDOG]

sounds basicallylike the baptist faith

We belive that the Bible is the word of God, and the 1 and only holybook, and we beleivethat you only pray to God and Jesus, we beleive in the Trinity.   We do not pray to saints or have rosarys and icons and "stuff" (no offense intended to anyone) 

I was just curious, thanks germ

[blackdiamond]

In a nutshell (which is where most of us belong...heheh) the SDA chuch believes in keeping the tenants of the bible. We encourage spending time studying the bible, and learning directly from the word of God. We try to keep things simple. We pray directly to God/Jesus, and not to some patron saint of (insert topic here). We are not fogiven of our sins by a priest, but by God himself. There are no Hail Mary rosary beads to be manipulated. It doesn't matter how many Our Father's you say. It's about developing and nurturing a relatioinship with our creator, and learning about his love for us, and how we can, by the instructions provided in the Bible be granted a place in Heaven when he comes to redeem us.

Is that "quick" enough. One could probably go on and on, but I doubt that is the intention of this thread.

Hope that helps

Erik

germ, did I miss you post up as an SDA?

I will add some information tonight.

[germ]

Yup, its a few posts up. (reply #55 to be exact heheheh)

Erik

[gotrocks]

wow big mike you too thats awesome I just found this thread and was excited to see some SDA's on here too.

I am a graduate of Auburn Adventist Academy and my girlfriend is a graduate of Campion both classes of 04

I am currently a student of Walla Walla College and am taking Automech and minoring in business.  Working as well at a machine shop.

[blackdiamond]

wow big mike you too thats awesome I just found this thread and was excited to see some SDA's on here too.

I am a graduate of Auburn Adventist Academy and my girlfriend is a graduate of Campion both classes of 04

I am currently a student of Walla Walla College and am taking Automech and minoring in business. Working as well at a machine shop.

I graduated in 01 from Walla Walla in engineering and 96 from Campion Academy.  I am now living in Silverdale and know a few people at AAA.

I need to bring my wife over some weekend to see the place, maybe we could go wheeling?  Are you there in the summer?

[gotrocks]

I graduated in 01 from Walla Walla in engineering and 96 from Campion Academy.  I am now living in Silverdale and know a few people at AAA.

I need to bring my wife over some weekend to see the place, maybe we could go wheeling? Are you there in the summer?

Yeah I just got a house here and am living here all the time.  My girlfriend wanted me to tell you that her uncle graduated in 95 from Campion and you probably knew him or of him.  His name is Doug Kast.  Anyhow I'll PM you later.

[blackdiamond]

Here are the 27 Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA church.  Understand that this is a short summary of each and the book they come from is more of a study guide/outline than anything else.  It is 100% Bible based and the book is full of Bible references.  This is not all inclusive nor does it exclude having other beliefs.

1) The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
2) There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons.
3) God the eternal Father is the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation.
4) God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ.  Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged.
5) God the eternal Spirit was active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption.  He inspired the writers of the Scriptures.
6) God is Creator of all things, and has revealed in Scripture the authentic account of His creative activity.
7) Man and woman were made in the image of God with individuality, the power and freedom to think and to do.
8.) All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe.
9) In Christ's life of perfect obedience to God's will, His suffering, death and resurrection, God provided the only means of atonement for human sin, so that those who by faith accept this atonement may have eternal life, and the whole creation may better understand the infinite and holy love of the Creator.
10) In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God.
11) The church is the community of believers who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.
12) The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13) The church is one body with many members, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people.
14) By baptism (immersion) we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to since and of our purpose to walk in newness of life.
15) The Lord's Supper is a participation in the emblems of the body and blood of Jesus as an expression of faith in Him, or Lord and Savior.
16) God bestows upon all members of His church in every age spiritual gifts which each member is to employ in loving ministry for the common good of the church and of humanity.
17) One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy.
18) The great principles of God's law are embodied in the Ten Commandments and exemplified in the life of Christ.
19) The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation.
20) We are God's stewards, entrusted by Him with time and opportunities, abilities and possessions, and the blessings of the earth and its resources.  We are responsible to Him for their proper use.
21) We are called to be a godly people who think, feel, and act in harmony with the principles of heaven.
22) Marriage was divinely established in Eden and affirmed by Jesus to be a lifelong union between a man and a woman in loving companionship.
23) There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man.  In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross.
24) The second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel.
25) The wages of sin is death.  But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed.
26) The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections.  During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels.  At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth.  The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth.  The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever.  Note: We believe that the dead are "asleep" in the ground until the resurrection & hell is not eternal the wicked will be consumed by the fire.
27) On the new earth, in which righteousness dwells, God will provide an eternal home for the redeemed and a perfect environment for evelasting life, love, joy, and learning in His presence.  The great controversy will be ended, and sin will be no more.

[Lady Di]

Actually, I believe that they are watching us to see how the battle between good and evil goes. The entire universe serves the same God and our world is the test of his character. I think the other worlds feel sadness when they watch us suffer.

I like that! Did anyone watch Carnivale on HBO?

[BLACKDOG]

Blackdiamond, can you explain #12 to me a little more clearly?  I didnt understand it.  Other than that, You're religious beliefs dont differ too far from mine. 

a few curious questions though

what is your/SDA stance on drinking?  I personally diasgree with getting drunk, as stated inthe Bible, but I dont disagree with drinking in moderation

Have you read/what is yuor thoughts on those "end Times" books?  there is 10 of them I think?  I forgot what they are called, and I've read them all

[gotrocks]

Left Behind?  The ones about the "Rapture"

[gotrocks]

Blackdiamond correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the one that we believe a Universal Sunday law will come into affect?

[BLACKDOG]

Left Behind?  The ones about the "Rapture"

yup, thats the one whaddaya think?

[awhotrods]

I'm SDA, graduated from PUC last year.  I was raised SDA and went to church every week, but I don't really go anymore.  I guess I feel the same as many others; that you don't have to be in a church to have your beliefs.  For me, it just comes down to being a good person, and respecting others.    

[blackdiamond]

(1) Blackdiamond, can you explain #12 to me a little more clearly?  I didnt understand it.  Other than that, You're religious beliefs dont differ too far from mine.  

(2) what is your/SDA stance on drinking?  I personally diasgree with getting drunk, as stated inthe Bible, but I dont disagree with drinking in moderation

(3) Have you read/what is yuor thoughts on those "end Times" books?  there is 10 of them I think?  I forgot what they are called, and I've read them all

#12 is a difficult subject so I will try to keep it simple, the universal church as stated is everyone that truly believes in Christ.  In the end times there will be a time when church and government will come together and enforce National Sunday laws making Sabbath keeping a key salvation issue.  In its simplest terms, Sunday vs. Saturday worship will become the Mark of the Beast.  At that time people will be forced to choose between serving God (10 Commandments) or serving man (Sunday worship).  This is a very key issue.  I would be happy to send you more information, books or anything else if you are interested in learning more.  Here is a website that looks like it has some great resources, I think I posted it already.

The official SDA stance on drinking is to not do it because we are the temple of God and anything that inhibits our judgement reduces our ability to serve God.  I don't drink personally (I have had a few different drinks at times just to see what they taste like), but some more liberal Adventists are social drinkers (I don't have a real problem with it, but it goes too far in most cases which is the danger), but you won't see it at a church function or when a pastor is around  The truly conservative people even frown on caffene.

As for the books, I haven't read them, so I won't comment other than I don't believe in any form of the rapture.  Enoch, Moses and Elijah were unique circumstances.

Hopefully some of the other SDA will help out with the explainations.

[BLACKDOG]

I see   Thanks for explaining that.

I guess that is a major difference between SDA and other christian beleifs.  I have a hard time with that but other than that, Our beleifs are similar

[gotrocks]

the drinking part?

[BLACKDOG]

the drinking part?

No. On that, to each his own IMO.  I dont accept the sat. vs. sunday being the mark of the beast.  I honestly cant see how that can be the mark of the beast, and whether you worship on sat. or sunday being the deciding factor, especially if you eleive the Christ is the Son of God, and that he died for your sins, and so forth.  Not talking crap or anything to SDA's, but I dont buy that part    

Black Diamond, I have been looking for those verses, and I have my girlfriend and another friend who also goes to the study looking for them as well. Its an informal study, kinda an ask a question, and research it for a week, and then discuss the next week, so we gotta find and copare notes.  sorry

[BigMike]

Wow, I've missed a lot!

Yup, Marlin is a graduate of PUC and so is his wife; that's where they met.

The problem I see with any organized religon these days is that it is all about the money..........if you don't your not worthy.

I've seen friends drop out of churches because of that. I think that's sad and those churches need to stop and see what they are doing. My church is way cool and doesnt care what I am wearing, what I've been doing, who I'm with, or what I'm gonna do later that day. They are just happy to see me and I've got alot of great friends there.

For me church is all about hanging out with my friends and relaxing from being so busy. I've got no pressure to attend and they never care if Ive been missing church; they are always happy to see me when ever I feel like going in

That's what church does for me

[blackdiamond]

No. On that, to each his own IMO.  I don't accept the sat. vs. sunday being the mark of the beast.  I honestly cant see how that can be the mark of the beast, and whether you worship on sat. or sunday being the deciding factor, especially if you believe the Christ is the Son of God, and that he died for your sins, and so forth.  Not talking crap or anything to SDA's, but I don't buy that part    

Black Diamond, I have been looking for those verses, and I have my girlfriend and another friend who also goes to the study looking for them as well. Its an informal study, kinda an ask a question, and research it for a week, and then discuss the next week, so we gotta find and copare notes. sorry

No worries BD (beliefs or verses), it is a very difficult subject that the SDA church presents is a series of meetings that can last for several weeks.  Whether or not you believe it, it makes for some interesting reading and it is more "scientific" that you would expect.  It comes straight out of Daniel and Revelation.  Nobody in the church claims to know all of the details or exactly how it will happen.  The idea/belief has actually been around longer than the SDA church and was held by Martin Luther (the original) and a few other noteable people from the past.  What is your perspective on the mark of the beast?

Do you, or any other of the people posted, have a similar set of beliefs that can be summarized on the board?

[BLACKDOG]

I dont really have a clear perspective on the mark of the beast, but IMO, and taken some out of the bible, I feel that that mark is gonna be personal, each person will have the martk of the beast or not.  Unfortunately I dont have the bible knowledge I should, but I have gone to church my entire life, and read it extensively, I just wish I could remember verses.   For example, in the book series "Left Behind" the AntiChrist, before it is public knowledge that he is the AntiChrist, becomes the world leader, and has everyone get a tattoo on their face or hand, signifying their loyalty, and they had to expose them to do things.  I think the mark of the beast will be something like that, not necessarily happen exactly like htat, but along those lines.

I'm just confused as to how someone (myself) who is saved by my beleif in Christ, that He died for me and my sins, that there is no way to get to heaven but through him, and without him, I could not have eternal life in heaven, would be condemned because I choose to worship Him on a different day   Is it just the sat. v. sunday thing that is the mark of the beast? or is there more involved? 

[SWAMPER]

BD Im gonna have to call you out and tell you that your wrong...its not a "personal" it will be an actual MARK it may not be tattod, or branded on your hand and forhead (some ppl think it will be a microchip ( remember the one they came out with thats the size or a rice grain)) but it will be there 

[BLACKDOG]

BD Im gonna have to call you out and tell you that your wrong...its not a "personal" it will be an actual MARK it may not be tattod, or branded on your hand and forhead (some ppl think it will be a microchip ( remember the one they came out with thats the size or a rice grain))

I figured I was gonna be called on that.  I guess I should have clarified that by personal, I mean that each person will have a mark.  It isnt going to be an umbrella thing IMO like worshipping on a certain day.  Each person will have an identical mark, we'll say its an X on their hand and/or forehead. 

[germ]

I mean that each person will have a mark. It isnt going to be an umbrella thing IMO like worshipping on a certain day. Each person will have an identical mark, we'll say its an X on their hand and/or forehead.

The way I understand it, (and I'm no expert), the mark will not be a visable mark, but actually a mark on the soul. The mark will be seen by God as the individual has followed man's instructions (Sunday laws) and not his instructions ( the 10 commandments). In the Bible, when it speaks of the end times (can't remember if it is Daniel or Revelations), it mentions that laws will be passed that will be punative for the ones who follow His commandments, and not the rules established by man.

Both books are very difficult to read and understand, because there is alot of metafores and vague descriptions, which are sometimes very hard to decipher. I went to a seminar that is put on by the SDA church called "Amazing Facts", which cleared it up nicley. Unfortunatly for me to try and put it into words is very hard.

I would encourage anyone who is interested in learning what the bible really says to attend one of these seminars. They are not activley trying to convert anyone to the Adventist church (although they would be happy if you did), but they really want to teach you what the Bible is trying to explain to us.

Hope that helps

Erik

[germ]

(3) Have you read/what is yuor thoughts on those "end Times" books?  there is 10 of them I think?  I forgot what they are called, and I've read them all


As for the books, I haven't read them, so I won't comment other than I don't believe in any form of the rapture.  Enoch, Moses and Elijah were unique circumstances.

Hopefully some of the other SDA will help out with the explainations.

I have not read the books either, but have discussed them with others who have. I think the main problem with them is that, again, they are man's interpretation of the bible, wrapped in a story. Again, I have no personal experience with them, so I can't be specific. My pastor's response to the books was: Read the Bible and see what it says.

Erik 

[germ]

12) The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

This is pretty complicated IMO. The only example I can think of that somewhat helps to clarify it some is that if you look at the Vatican's version of the 10 commandments, #4 has been changed so that it does not mention the Sabbath at all. (I'm not knocking the catholic church, or anyone's beliefs, just re-iterating what has been shown to me). They actually split another commandment in 2, (Sorry, can't remember which ones), and took the commandment about keeping the Sabbath Holy completly out, therby justifying worshiping on Sunday. I'll try and find more info so I can be more specific.

Erik

[blackdiamond]

I just managed to lose everything that I typed in the last few minutes so here it goes again in summary.

The Catholics removed the commandment about having other gods (Virgin Mary comes to mind), shortened the Sabbath Commandment to not include working for 6 days and resting for 1, and split the commandment about coveting your neighbors wife and goods into separate things to fill the required number of 10.  I have nothing against Catholic people, and I even believe that the Pope is a good man and has an honest heart, but the system is messed up.

As for the mark, the Bible refers to the mark being on the hand and on the head, my understanding is that this represents understanding and works (Sunday worship).  Daniel and Revelation are full of symbols, so why does everyone expect a literal mark?  Another part of this issue is that until it become a national/world issue the mark does not exist.  I believe that there will be many Sunday believers saved prior to this time and you can be saved now as a Sunday worshiper (assuming that you are serving God to the greatest extent of your knowledge since we are not held responsible for things we don't know), but there will be a time when it will become a salvation issue.

I also just recently attended a siminar on Revelation and I have some of the audio CDs if anyone is interested, it is interesting stuff for people that want to expand their knowledge.

[BLACKDOG]

Bd, what you are saying is that as of right now I am saved, and that If I die, I will go to heaven, but there will become a point in time that If I were to not go to cvhurch on sat, and go on sunday, I wouldnt be saved?  is that what you are saying


As for those Audio CDs, If you could burn those, I wouldnt mind hearing them   I'd be more than happy to drop some $$ for shipping and the copying

[blackdiamond]

BD, first we need to figure out what people should call us since people seem to refer to both of us as BD and you are the original.  I figure you should be BD and I should be "bd" if people want to shorten my name, does that sound reasonable?

Let me clarify that worshiping God and attending church are not the same.  I think that it is vitally important to go to church (Christ's custom was to go to the temple), but not a weekly requirement for sure.

You are correct that Sunday worshipers can be saved now, but not after the mark of the beast happens.  I will try to explain this better tonight when I get home.

Send me a PM with your address and I will put something together for you as soon as I can.  I might get the disks copied tonight and I also have photo copies of the powerpoint that goes with it.  The speaker isn't the smoothest (it was his first time presenting the series, he is normally a singer) but his explainations were very good.  Unless cost gets out of hand I will be happy to supply, hopefully you don't live at the south pole for shipping purposes.

[BLACKDOG]

alright bd, sounds good

When I say go to church on sat vs. sun. I'm meaning choosing those days to worship, not necessarily goign there every week.  Sometimes I have a hard time discussing online, cause I type slower than I talk, and I cant correct myself as easily.

Does SDA use any other books?  or only the Bible?

Yes, please explain the sunday worshipers saving before and after the mark of the beast

I am finding these discussions fascinating.  It is interesting to see how different religions agree on some things and differ on others.  I'm not going to convert to anything by anymeans but just learning about the tdifferent types, mainly SDA right now, is interesting. 

[supermat]

Well, Ive got to jump in as the information flying around here is very interesting. I'm a Baptist, same church as BlackDog. I actively attend church (on Sundays) and have a continually developing relationship with my God. I'm very curious about some of the SDA's beliefs, specifically the Saturday worship. I've followed the thread thus far so won't review anything but the Saturday/Sunday difference is curious. I never realized how strictly this rule was enforced on your end. Aside from it we're following the same basic guidelines and the only differences I see are those that would be considered non-salvation issues. At least that is what I thought because now I'm discovering that in your teaching Saturday worship is a salvation issue. What grounds are you taking that stand on? I know its bound to be a very in depth explanation and I'd love to read it, if its too long to post up PM me or email: [email protected]
On the other topics mentioned I'm more conservative than most. I'm not a fan of alchohol and I believe regular church attendance is important because without the interaction among believers it is easy to stumble and either not care or not notice. With the constant support of others we can find support and accountability. My 

Matt