Topic: Blackdiamond (Gup-C build-up)

[Gnarly4X]

Atleast you can go down the road now with less worries.  Got a question about your rear "tracbar" or axle wrap bar, you have any good suggestions on making/buying one?  I've noticed my rear leafs are super soft and daily driving on/off the gas results in alot of wind up.  I can actually watch the axle rotate a little by pushing back n forth on the truck with parking brake on.

Here's a really good explanation and detailed options for axle wrap issues.

http://4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/axlewrap/

Gnarls.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Atleast you can go down the road now with less worries.  Got a question about your rear "tracbar" or axle wrap bar, you have any good suggestions on making/buying one?  I've noticed my rear leafs are super soft and daily driving on/off the gas results in alot of wind up.  I can actually watch the axle rotate a little by pushing back n forth on the truck with parking brake on.

Mine is a Bud Built setup. The standard one did not fit and he ended up sending me a custom one because we couldn’t identify anything unique to my rig that would have been expected to make it not fit.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Well, it's time to re-baseline the vibration issue.  As previously noted, the rear end has been completely redone and is assume to no longer be part of the issue.  A friend of mine current engineer and previously a certified mechanic kept the 4Runner for the week that I was in Moab and drove it to work.  He changed the motor mounts and recommended that I changed the spark plugs and distributor cap and rotor since the engine had a miss.  I've actually not driven it since all of this was done, so hope to go for a drive today and see how it feels.  My friend reports that the motor mounts didn't fix the vibration and that the vibration is 50-55 mph when cold and 55-60 when warmed up.  Now I have to start the process of elimination over I think since it appears that there was multiple issue with overlapping symptoms.

[LittleSteve]

Well, it's time to re-baseline the vibration issue.  As previously noted, the rear end has been completely redone and is assume to no longer be part of the issue.  A friend of mine current engineer and previously a certified mechanic kept the 4Runner for the week that I was in Moab and drove it to work.  He changed the motor mounts and recommended that I changed the spark plugs and distributor cap and rotor since the engine had a miss.  I've actually not driven it since all of this was done, so hope to go for a drive today and see how it feels.  My friend reports that the motor mounts didn't fix the vibration and that the vibration is 50-55 mph when cold and 55-60 when warmed up.  Now I have to start the process of elimination over I think since it appears that there was multiple issue with overlapping symptoms.

For what it's worth, my vibration was a combination of front diff, rear diff, shaft UJ, loose tcase output.

As you were..

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Blackdiamond....

I hope by now you have determined what was causing the vibration issue and able to fix it.

For me, vibrations are 2nd only to oil leaks.  I hate oil leaks.

Gnarls.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Hey Blackdiamond....

I hope by now you have determined what was causing the vibration issue and able to fix it.

For me, vibrations are 2nd only to oil leaks.  I hate oil leaks.

Gnarls.

Not really. After Moab its priority dropped off the radar.  It’s better, but I wouldn’t drive it across the country at this point.

[Gnarly4X]

Geezzz.. with all the time and money you have invested into attempting to find out the source of the vibration, it is really disappointing that a solution could not be discovered.

Gnarls.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Somewhat unrelated to the vibration issue, I am seriously considering selling the 4Runner. I have a tentative deal with gotrocks (the guy that did the original build for me). It just doesn’t get used enough to justify keeping it.  I dug it out of the garage today for the first time in months…maybe a year.

[mudmaster]

Somewhat unrelated to the vibration issue, I am seriously considering selling the 4Runner. I have a tentative deal with gotrocks (the guy that did the original build for me). It just doesn’t get used enough to justify keeping it.  I dug it out of the garage today for the first time in months…maybe a year.

No like!

[Gnarly4X]

Somewhat unrelated to the vibration issue, I am seriously considering selling the 4Runner. I have a tentative deal with gotrocks (the guy that did the original build for me). It just doesn’t get used enough to justify keeping it.  I dug it out of the garage today for the first time in months…maybe a year.

Hey blackdiamond....

I think I understand.  For me, my 4-wheeling days have some of the best memories and most fun times in my life.  But.. as "life things" change so do your choices.

Whichever way to end up, go by your gut. 

Gnarls.

[Cheesemaker]

This sucks dude.  But I fully understand.  I keep looking at a Marlin Ultimate setup sitting on my shop bench, and a set of front axles in the rafters, and I don't think I will ever get the Offroad Rig I dreamed about.  Life just keeps kicking me in the nuts, and I have just been in survival mode for the last couple years. 

[:)bestgen4runner]

    

Somewhat unrelated to the vibration issue, I am seriously considering selling the 4Runner. I have a tentative deal with gotrocks (the guy that did the original build for me). It just doesn’t get used enough to justify keeping it.  I dug it out of the garage today for the first time in months…maybe a year.

[blackdiamond [OP]]

   

Help?

[:)bestgen4runner]

If your not in any hurry at all I can put it on my to do list. Your a good friend I would love to help if I can, just has to fit in with all my other promises I have made to others.
Also I'm a sucker for a challenge and enjoy being a hero when possible. 

[blackdiamond [OP]]

The 4Runner is headed to the Chevron today. 😁

[swilson]

Haha. Mine took us to Chinese food last night.  First time it's moved in months ! 🤦🏼

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Haha. Mine took us to Chinese food last night.  First time it's moved in months ! 🤦🏼

“Chevron” is code for it went to get looked at by skilled mechanic. 🫣

[blackdiamond [OP]]

The initial plan for the 4Runner is all new fluids along with a new set of u-boots. Changing the u-bolts will provide opportunity to inspect the leaf spring pins and slots in the mounts.

[OVRAROK]

You still hunting down that vibration issue?

[Slabzilla]

B-gen will sort it out!  My bet is a bent axle shaft, you can't have a housing bent that badly without some axle spline damage or the bending of the axle to compensate for the deformed housing.  That said, spring pins or springs that are broken can cause looseness of the rear axle.  Check the front wheel bearings also as the vibes you seek now could be in the front end.  If the vibes are only coming from the rear, my first info is what I'd be focusing on.  Been working on cars since early 60's so my skills have a little merit. Thanks B-gen for carrying on great mechanical skills   

[blackdiamond [OP]]

B-gen will sort it out!  My bet is a bent axle shaft, you can't have a housing bent that badly without some axle spline damage or the bending of the axle to compensate for the deformed housing.  That said, spring pins or springs that are broken can cause looseness of the rear axle.  Check the front wheel bearings also as the vibes you seek now could be in the front end.  If the vibes are only coming from the rear, my first info is what I'd be focusing on.  Been working on cars since early 60's so my skills have a little merit. Thanks B-gen for carrying on great mechanical skills   

I’d be shocked if the mad scientist that straightened the housing didn’t check the axles considering the level of detail that he went into. B-Gen and I are speculating that the roll cage could be transferring something that feels worse than it is. Bottom line is that I trust him to evaluate and my main goal is being confident from a safety perspective.

[Gnarly4X]

Our forum is very lucky to have members like slabzilla and bgen.... among others.

I miss bgen. 

He is a standup dude and a class act that helped me numerous times during my 22RE rebuild.

I owe him something. 

He has clearly demonstrated his kindness to help others in need.

His incredible knowledge and experience is obvious.

Vibrations, from my experience, has always been one of THE most challenging to source.

Good luck with your findings.

Gnarls.

[:)bestgen4runner]

She’s safe waiting in the new Chevron location for my weekend to start.
Had some heavy weight snow 4” take down two trees in pasture #3 last week. Both trees squared up my fences nicely. No cows escaped thank goodness.
I agree with Jon so far. The cage is definitely transferring vibrations.
Still we will see what else could be involved. No final determination made yet.
Also “hi” to all my turtles

[blackdiamond [OP]]

I figured that I should post an update. The 4Runner has been home for a few weeks now. The vibration remains but my mindset has changed. This is the new baseline and I will look for anything new going forward. The work included new u-bolts to allow a more thorough look at things and new body mounts (my request). I need to drive it more as it hasn’t move since the day I drove it home.

[Gnarly4X]

Just thinking out loud….

I’m somewhat surprised that the source of the vibration has not been determined or found.

The vibrations in a vehicle are caused by a rotating mass, right?

There are 3 basic areas of rotating mass – the engine, the drive train, and the wheels and tires.

If driving the vehicle at “vibration inducing speed” and engine is turned off, transmission is in neutral, and the vibration continues, the source is not the engine.

That leaves the tires and wheels and drivetrain.  Swapping tires and wheels or carefully balancing the wheels and the tires, verifying no out-of-roundness, should eliminate the tire and wheels.

That leaves the drive train – driveshafts, front and rear axles and housings, transmission and transfer case, and brakes.

If the front hubs are unlocked and the transfer case is in 2-wheel drive, does that prevent the front axle shafts and front driveshaft from rotating?

If driving the vehicle at “vibration inducing speed”, engine is turned off, coasting, transmission is in neutral, and the vibration continues, is the source of vibration in the rear driveshaft or axles and axle housing?

When my 1985 shortbed had a vibration at highway speeds, I dropped the rear driveshaft, engaged the front diff in 4-wheel drive, at highway speeds there were not vibrations and  determined the vibration was the rear driveshaft.

If the vibration is in the rear end – axles or axle housing - I’m not sure of the easiest, least expensive, and least time consuming route to isolating the part that is causing the vibration.

I may be missing something.

Just my thoughts from experiences with 25+ vehicles over about 70 years.

Gnarls. 

[blackdiamond [OP]]

Gnarls - Obviously something is causing a vibration. Bestgen had it for a couple months and drove it a bit. He doesn’t consider that it’s a significant vibration. If it were his he’d probably tear into the transmission or t-case, but since nothing is expected to immanenty fair or create a dangerous situation I don’t really want to spend more money chasing it.

To recap some of the highlights:

I had the rear driveshaft redone with new u-joints and balanced. The guy is reputable and said that his machine self calibrates so there’s no reason to think that it’s the driveshaft.

I had the tires balanced, rotated them, and ran the rear tires from my Sequoia. This was prior to the rear differential work.

Motor mounts were replaced.

Rear differential was complete rebuilt and the housing straightened which fixed the truly concerning vibration.

Body mounts were replaced though that wasn’t really expected to fix it.

I ran 2 degree shims in the rear both directions and created new and different vibrations.

It’s safe and the vibrations isn’t horrible. I am a bit sensitive!

[Gnarly4X]

For me a rogue, hard to isolate vibration in my vehicle is right up there with "the engine won't start" for emotional distress.

Gnarls.

[MattG]

A blank slate.  So many possiblities!!!

[blackdiamond [OP]]

For me a rogue, hard to isolate vibration in my vehicle is right up there with "the engine won't start" for emotional distress.

Gnarls.

It would be nice to figure it out, but there’s only so much that it’s worth

[Gnarly4X]

It would be nice to figure it out, but there’s only so much that it’s worth

Copy that.

Gnarls.