IFS is gone!! 3.0 Killer on 1 tons

[BLACKDOG]

So I was poking around, looking at some of the elocker install threads, and it raised a few questions

1)From my understanding, seeing as I'll have to modify my front housing to accept the elocker third, Am I right in thinking that this would mean that the elocker housing would not be compatible with a regular third? 
     a)if that is the case, can you modify the elocker housing to accept a regular third? 

2)if you had a choice, would you rather put the elocker in the front or the rear? I'm thinking I would put it in the front, and leave my detroit in the rear, but I can also see the benefit of being open in the rear when I want.   Opinions? 

[snowshoebrue]

yes you can put an elocker in the front.  you will have to notch the housing and relocate 2 of the studs.  as for the rear you will have to fill the notch and relocate the studs.  unless you plan on doing alot a dd in your rig then i would put it in the front.  you can also get a cable conversion for it also

[BLACKDOG]

yes you can put an elocker in the front.  you will have to notch the housing and relocate 2 of the studs.  as for the rear you will have to fill the notch and relocate the studs.  unless you plan on doing alot a dd in your rig then i would put it in the front.  you can also get a cable conversion for it also

Yeah, I read some buildups to mod the housing to put it up front.  I saw the cable conversions too, that downey has.  I haven't decided whether I want to go with the cable conversion or run the elocker electrically

so the mod for the rear would just be the reverse? Cool

I don't plan on doing a lot of DDing, but it sure is nice to drive the toy in the snow, rather than my ford, its just a lot lighter.  Even so, I think I want to put the elocker up front. 

[79coyotefrg]

[BLACKDOG]

  I wasn't planning on doing it for a while, but I think I'm gonna start hacking away at my front axle, start getting it cleaned up.  Don't worry, I'll put pics up

[79coyotefrg]

i meant of the springs  you have

[BLACKDOG]

i meant of the springs  you have

I'll put them up on tuesday

[NorCalToy]

alright finished it now...thanks for the help and the build has a nice write up which il be following when i do my duals eventually.

if you havent figured out anything with the taco axle yet, i would just run the whole setup in the rear, no mods, detroit up front then, a little extra width in the rear. the snow would be nice. and it requires the least work.

[BLACKDOG]

Ok, so I'm thinking about taking the plunge into full widths.  I want full widths eventually, and just looking at the cost, it seems as if going full widths now would be cheaper than building up the toyota stuff.   

I've got a toy front housing that needs rebuilt, and I need axles for it.  I don't really see a point in getting some stock birfs, I break stuff and I'm sure I'll break them, so I'd prolly get longs.  I don't have a third for that axle either, but I do have an elocker third that I would have to regear.  My rear end is set up just fine, so I'd leave that alone. 

I can find a rear 60 for $100 or so all over the place, and toss a 44 in the front, or find a 60 depending on cost.  I figure if I did that, I could run the full widths completely stock for a while, and then build them up later. 

Either way, I have to buy:
Steering
spring hanger (or make)
frame tubes and shackles (or make)
shock hoops (or make)
shocks
springs


If I go toyota, I need to:
Regear the elocker
mod the front housing
buy axle shafts
rebuild the axle

If I go fullwidths, I need to:
buy the axles
possible rebuild
modify brakes
new M/C?   
toy to dana driveshaft flanges
New wheels

If I went full widths, I'd sell:
IFS front end (5.29s and locked)
IFS rear axle (5.29s and locked)
elocker and complete rear taco axle
wheels



so to anyone with experience with fullwidth swaps who bothered to read this, am I figuring this right?  or am I way off on my assumptions? 

[NorCalToy]

Well if you do end up going to full widths id be interested in the IFS front end.


What about street driveability though with the fullwidths?

[IronClad]

in before the running a halfton front end is against god and country and you should go to hell bandwagon chimes in.


basicly doing a fullwidth swap is just like doing a SAS instead you have a wider hanger

Depending on what axles you get you might not have to switch wheels.  the MC change is a bracket made out of 3/8ths or 1/2" ( made mine with a torch and a hand drill)  and some fittings which is easy. brake lines are just as simple as any race shop can hook you up with  lines with any fittings relatively cheap and any length you want  ( ive bought over 40" long brake lines before)

Overall depending where you get stuff it can be cheaper in the long run or more expensive. But through the width you gain the stability is insane  you will wonder why you hadnt done it sooner.  And norcaltoy as for street driving it just like driving any other truck, I DD'ed mine for a long time  and if anything it was better.

[NorCalToy]

in before the running a halfton front end is against god and country and you should go to hell bandwagon chimes in.


basicly doing a fullwidth swap is just like doing a SAS instead you have a wider hanger

Depending on what axles you get you might not have to switch wheels.  the MC change is a bracket made out of 3/8ths or 1/2" ( made mine with a torch and a hand drill)  and some fittings which is easy. brake lines are just as simple as any race shop can hook you up with  lines with any fittings relatively cheap and any length you want  ( ive bought over 40" long brake lines before)

Overall depending where you get stuff it can be cheaper in the long run or more expensive. But through the width you gain the stability is insane  you will wonder why you hadnt done it sooner.  And norcaltoy as for street driving it just like driving any other truck, I DD'ed mine for a long time  and if anything it was better.

I meant more the legality of driving it on the street. He has his other 4runner now, so i guess it may not be an issue.

[IronClad]

typical mudflaps and you're good to go.  If you wana get down to it  modifying a vehicle  is illegal  but  the law is pretty lax on it due to the revenue it generates

[79coyotefrg]

typical mudflaps and you're good to go.  If you wana get down to it  modifying a vehicle  is illegal  but  the law is pretty lax on it due to the revenue it generates

you hit the nail right on the head,  its all about the


am i correct but aren't Wagoneer axles a perfect candidate

dana 44's with 6 lug ??

[bigarms23]

on mine 4runner with full widths i have removable mudflaps and 1/4 in fender flares and never get pulled over and it is my dd

[BLACKDOG]

in before the running a halfton front end is against god and country and you should go to hell bandwagon chimes in.


basicly doing a fullwidth swap is just like doing a SAS instead you have a wider hanger

Depending on what axles you get you might not have to switch wheels.  the MC change is a bracket made out of 3/8ths or 1/2" ( made mine with a torch and a hand drill)  and some fittings which is easy. brake lines are just as simple as any race shop can hook you up with  lines with any fittings relatively cheap and any length you want  ( ive bought over 40" long brake lines before)

Overall depending where you get stuff it can be cheaper in the long run or more expensive. But through the width you gain the stability is insane  you will wonder why you hadnt done it sooner.  And norcaltoy as for street driving it just like driving any other truck, I DD'ed mine for a long time  and if anything it was better.

The stability is definitely one of the reasons I want to go full widths.  I just kinda figure if I'm going to go full widths in the long run, why not just go straight to them now, skip the middle step   I know either way it'll be expensive in the long run,  I'm kinda limited on funds right now, so I'm thinking this is the best way to go. 

[IronClad]

you hit the nail right on the head,  its all about the


am i correct but aren't Wagoneer axles a perfect candidate

dana 44's with 6 lug ??

for fullwidth not really  since they are only about 58-60 ( been a long while since ive measured one) wide where as a fullwidth 44/60 is 67.5/69" wide


And yes if you are wanting to SAS and eventually go to fullwidth you might aswell just do it once.   its really not going to be that much more expensive if anything because you still have to buy brake lines/highsteer arms  and such no matter what axle you use, some prices may be more expensive or cheaper it all just depends on where you get them from.

[BLACKDOG]

pretty much what I'm thinking.  Out of curiosity, how does a ford 9" compare to a 60?   
Also, I'm getting some conflicting information on what axles to look for.  I'm keeping the toy drivetrain, so I obviously need a pass. side drop front axle. 

From what I'm gathered I'm looking for a dodge front axle, or a late 70s to early 80s chevy.  Sound right?

[IronClad]

a 9" is just as strong as a 60  if you get the correct one  ( banjo housing an an N case)   as for the front axle id just get a chevy one as they are a little wider and the parts for them are alot more abundant. as most 10bolt parts from the outer knuckle out interchange ( wheelhubs spindles  knuckles stub shafts everything) for a dana 44.  as for 60  the dodge knuckles and such are a little more desireable since their tierod mounts higher but if you do highsteer  its a moot point, but the axle is also narrower than a chevy. but honestly id go for what you can get for the best price.. like i got my axles for 50 bucks  it was hard to beat that

[snowshoebrue]

jason,

If you are going to go to fullwidths anyways i would do it first.  60 fronts are alot more expensive than a 44 front.  60 rears are pretty cheap.  ideally you would want to go with a kingpin 60 front with 70 rear with 35 spline shafts.  then all you will have to do is upgrade the outers on the front and you will have 35spline front and rear.   if you go with a 14 bolt  the toy driveline adapter is about 2.5x more expensive.  dana 60 highsteer is more expensive than toyota stuff is.  if you plan on staying with 4.10 gears in the axles then you are gonna need to get an upgrade on the t-case output shaft.  you are limited on the lockers for the 60.  you will have lockright, detroit  unless you go with a arb or elocker.    If you plan on gearing the axles if you go with a 14 bolt rear the lowest you can go is 5.38 but 60/70 have all the way down to 7.17's.  i plan on running 5.86's in mine  i went with a sky fullwidth sas kit which is like 250 and comes with hanger,shackles,and frame sleeves. 

[kneedownnate]

Jason, from what I understand, the true benefit of going 9" rear (aside from having a drop out 3rd like toys) is that you CAN run a high pinion rear 3rd, which I believe is the strongest 9" setup.  Otherwise, my 2nd choice would be the 60 rear for the same reasons as have been mentioned:  fairly cheap to buy and plenty strong.  Then again, I'd probably only ever swap from toyota axles if I went with a v8 though.

[BLACKDOG]

Jason, from what I understand, the true benefit of going 9" rear (aside from having a drop out 3rd like toys) is that you CAN run a high pinion rear 3rd, which I believe is the strongest 9" setup.  Otherwise, my 2nd choice would be the 60 rear for the same reasons as have been mentioned:  fairly cheap to buy and plenty strong.  Then again, I'd probably only ever swap from toyota axles if I went with a v8 though.

  A buddy and I hashed it over today as we did some damage to my truck, and I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be going full widths.  Its going to be cheaper for me, as I can sell off my yota stuff, and have minimal cost out of pocket.  I'm looking at cheap right now, as I want to get my truck going, but I've got to save, because of potential layoffs   doesn't look like it'll come right now, but I'm far closer to the bottom than the top.  The reason I asked about the 9" is because my buddy has one laying around. 

So, without further ado, the new work done. 

Removing the bed


Tucked back inside the garage




Temporary home for the bed




Now that the bed is off, I'm going to mount my OBA tank, so its ready when I finally do it, remount my exhaust, redo my exhaust mounts, and raise my gas tank.  Probably also pull it and mount the 60 when/if I get one.

Cab:
Getting ready to cut the back of the cab out, and I needed to hammer out the drivers side xcab section, and try to get my drivers side door to close. 








Door/excab section:

Before:


inside:


Not lining up:


Closing and lining up again, well sorta:


done for the day:

[BLACKDOG]

jason,

if you plan on staying with 4.10 gears in the axles then you are gonna need to get an upgrade on the t-case output shaft. 

Can you elaborate please?  Are we just talking due to strength?

[79coyotefrg]

you gonna cut the back of the cab ??  you gotta make a bigger seat for the doggie??

[BLACKDOG]

you gonna cut the back of the cab ??  you gotta make a bigger seat for the doggie??

gonna make it a 4seater crawler for real.  No more cramming people into the xcab.

[snowshoebrue]

most of the time the reason guys break the output shafts is cause of the strain of big axles, big tires.  a dana 60 front  is 514#.  the rear is also heavier than yota axles.   with lower gears you will put les strain on the output.  if you are not gonna put 42's on it it probably wont be that big of a deal.
here's some info on front 60's
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/

Can you elaborate please?  Are we just talking due to strength?

[BLACKDOG]

most of the time the reason guys break the output shafts is cause of the strain of big axles, big tires.  a dana 60 front  is 514#.  the rear is also heavier than yota axles.   with lower gears you will put les strain on the output.  if you are not gonna put 42's on it it probably wont be that big of a deal.
here's some info on front 60's
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/

cool.  Thanks.  I'm prolly gonna keep running my 35"s for a while, I know it'll look funny, but oh well.  

[BLACKDOG]

So I've got a possible trade going, a Full float Dana 60 out of a '79 F250.  Everything I'm finding says its most likely a 30 spline axle, and I'm finding conflicting information on the strength of the 30 spline.  Anyone got any advice on this?  Should I take it, or keep looking? 

[snowshoebrue]

30 spline should be fine.  you can get some dutchman shafts for it and it will be fine.  dutchman shafts are only 295 for a set.  my axle is the same axle.  it will be narrower than a chevy front.  it is only 65", you can run it like that or get wheel spacers

[BLACKDOG]

30 spline should be fine.  you can get some dutchman shafts for it and it will be fine.  dutchman shafts are only 295 for a set.  my axle is the same axle.  it will be narrower than a chevy front.  it is only 65", you can run it like that or get wheel spacers

cool.  guess I better start looking for a front axle to go with my rear