Author Topic: Annoying Orange, 20r Build for the 1980 Pickup  (Read 20613 times)

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H8PVMNT

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Annoying Orange, 20r Build for the 1980 Pickup
« on: Oct 23, 2017, 01:38:19 PM »
My hybrid experiment in the 4runner started blowing exhaust and large quantities of oil (like all the oil) out the PCV breather this weekend.  This indicated to me that it may not be healthy any more  :disturbed:.

I had been collecting bits for my "pinky" project, another tentative hybrid with more coolness, but for now we need the 4Runner to be going so I will have to shelf that one for another season of two. Nice thing is I have had no luck getting another early 22r block, so I can use that one for pinky after we do the autopsy.

Why a 20r you ask?  Well I have a nice, original 20r block laying here and I have always been pretty impressed with the bone stock, under-carbed 20r in my '80 pickup, so I thought it would be fun to do another experiment.

I could bore it out to 22r size, but there seems to be a 50/50 chance you will just wreck the block doing that, so I am erring on the safe side.

The 20r is lower compression, like 8.4/1 stock, so it eats rougher.  We have lousy gas here so that isn't bad.  My 20r pickup runs well off of 85 octane, varnish, saw gas, eth heavy winter gas, pretty much anything.  Much less finicky than my 22r, which I really have to tune to run off even 87.

My racer buddy Dane took one look at the early dog dish 22r pistons and almost winced.  "Those pistons are terrible!"  Apparently the raised dog dish lends itself well to a clean burn in a swirly combustion chamber but leaves a bit to be desired for power building efficiency and flow.  20r has stock flat tops.

The 20r/22r hybrid is definitely an improvement over the 22r, I can vouch for that.  However, is the improvement in drivability more the head design or more the slight bump in compression, or is it just a magic combination?

Also we tend to really dial in our hybrids, nice carbs, cams, headers, really good tune, etc.  So are we just really making improvements on an all ready good 20r or is the 22r bottom end the important part of the equation?   I plan to find out!   :thumbs:

As an added bonus I will be keeping a log of time on this engine, so we can provide one answer about "how long does it take to build a Toyota 4 banger.  I realize we all work at different speeds, but I am going to just put it out there as a middle speed example of how long it takes.

I predict loosing some power, but I will bet a double espresso that it's still better than my stock 22r.  I realize our only dyno is my tuning/test hill and seat of the pants impressions but I have enough seat time with the stock 22r and the Hybrid that I think I can be pretty objective about this.



So I did a quick inventory of what I have and it looks pretty good.

To start a nice, un-molested 20r block out of a 1980 2WD parts truck.  Almost doesn't even need to be bored except one of the cylinders was pitted from the intake being off for years and years.

Then I have the crank from the same engine, which was so nice all I had to do was polish it with WD40, emery cloth and a shoe lace. Right on spec with no taper!

I am going to keep a running total of actual cash invested.  I have done a lot of trading and salvaging for these parts so this will be fun.  Not saying this is the typical engine scenario but it can be done cheaply over time. I really try to save stuff, trade every chance I get and snag every deal I can.  I want to see how it paid off.

So far about $10 of WD40, shoe laces and emery cloth invested in these parts.


« Last Edit: Dec 04, 2017, 02:53:30 PM by H8PVMNT »
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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #1 on: Oct 23, 2017, 01:45:49 PM »
I had a heck of a time finding verifiable Japanese pistons and rings for the 20r.  Finally I found an outfit the early Celica guys use a lot, Evergreen, who had "Nippon" brand, made in Japan.  Nippon supplies rings for a variety of Japanese and European OEMs.

Best set of rods I had came out of a low, low miles 20r Celica demo derby car with a cracked block.  My buddy forgot to drain the water last winter after the derby.  Waste of a good low miles engine  :shake_head:.  Oh well I have a set of tight rods that don't need any money spent on them so that's good. 

Pistons were $89.95 shipped, so $99.95 invested so far.

« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2017, 07:51:38 AM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #2 on: Oct 23, 2017, 01:49:30 PM »
Then I have this 282 camshaft and 22re performance 75 lb valve springs.   :driving:

I have a set of valve guides and a new set of valves I had around for experimenting with DIY valve guide installing. 

Still on the fence about this cam in the 4Runner but it is here and paid for...

Cam was traded for a few stock TEQ cam cores and some rockers I had laying around, shipping those was about $17.  Valves, guides and seals were $54, if I remember correctly.  So total now comes to $170.95.
« Last Edit: Oct 23, 2017, 03:14:28 PM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #3 on: Oct 23, 2017, 01:52:40 PM »
Then I have a Toyota head gasket that Lewis Hein sent me and a full set of gaskets I had forgotten about I scored for $15 on craigslist with a couple of throttle cables and a gas door.  Apparently a guy had bought an early gasket set but he had a laser block so it was just collecting dust.

I shipped Lewis an ignitor I think it was like $7 to ship, $15 for other gaskets so total now is $192.95.

« Last Edit: Oct 23, 2017, 03:15:47 PM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #4 on: Oct 23, 2017, 01:53:49 PM »
I have a couple tubes of Toyota "Black Death" from bestgen...

$5 a tube, 2 tubes, I think he took $3 to ship so another $13 for a grand total of $205.95 so far.

« Last Edit: Oct 23, 2017, 03:16:50 PM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #5 on: Oct 23, 2017, 01:56:18 PM »
:popcorn: lots of YES
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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #6 on: Oct 23, 2017, 03:21:52 PM »
I have done a bunch of parting out, vehicle stripping, cleaning and messing around with these parts so far.  To be fair let's say I have 8 hours into it so far for pulling engines, cleaning up and disassembly.  I think that's pretty typical of yanking out an engine, sourcing and scrounging other needed parts etc. to get to this point of a build.

I think it's only fair to include this kind of stuff on my typical engine build labor timeframe since there is more to it than just assembly of clean and new parts.
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #7 on: Oct 23, 2017, 05:39:01 PM »
 :driving:
Ed
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H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #8 on: Oct 24, 2017, 07:30:34 AM »
Jim says the 282 cam is meant for a lighter truck so I will save it for the 2WD next summer.  Probably going to use a stock profile cam since it is so good in the 20r head (according to Gnarly's spread sheets, thanks man!  :biggthumpup:) and it will make a better comparison of 20r/22r hybrid I have now vs. plain 20r.  The only real change would be the bore and piston design.
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2017, 08:35:37 AM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #9 on: Oct 24, 2017, 07:55:52 AM »
Another entertaining and informative thread from our off the grid friend. I love these.  :spin:
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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #10 on: Oct 24, 2017, 09:25:30 AM »
Just by the way -- it's the law around here that you need a house thread in every engine build thread you start. Between this and Pinky, you owe us two sub-threads about houses.....

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #11 on: Oct 24, 2017, 09:29:46 AM »
Just by the way -- it's the law around here that you need a house thread in every engine build thread you start. Between this and Pinky, you owe us two sub-threads about houses.....

Well I am going to build a shop from old telephone poles and left over roofing pretty soon would that do?
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #12 on: Oct 24, 2017, 09:44:18 AM »
Well I am going to build a shop from old telephone poles and left over roofing pretty soon would that do?

Probably... Especially if you run the shop on compressed air from an old 22R turned into a compressor and powered by another old 22R. I've never tried this but it should work in theory to use that one with a cracked block and just avoid the cylinder that is cracked.

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #13 on: Oct 24, 2017, 12:17:05 PM »
Cleaned up the rods and snugged up the caps.  All measured 2.205 from all angles, perfectly round!  Wrist pin bushings are all good and not hogged out or tapered either.  New pins fit nice with just oil clearance no sloppy rocking. These came out of that low miles Celica with the frozen cracked block.

I am a firm proponent of getting your rods done but these are perfect anyway so we will run them!

Almost forgot, I spent about an hour taking off old pistons, cleaning rods up, testing wrist pins and measuring bores both ways with the micrometer.

Running total for labor 9 hours.

« Last Edit: Oct 24, 2017, 12:45:25 PM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #14 on: Oct 24, 2017, 02:29:40 PM »
Just realized I probably shouldn't use that 22r head gasket because the bore is too big for the 20r block.  20r head gaskets are pretty limited as far as choices too.  Grrrg.

Found this: https://paradiseracing.com/shop/engine-components/cometic-toyota-20r-22r/

Not sure my surfaces will be that perfect though.  Might have to stay more typical on the HG and use whatever brand regular style with the copper spray.
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2017, 08:36:31 AM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #15 on: Oct 25, 2017, 11:30:34 AM »
I spent another $45.92 on standard rods and mains and a head gasket from these guys:  https://www.partsology.com/.  I have no experience with DNJ components but everyone seems to have good success so we will give them a try.  I will yank the nearly new OSK timing set, adjustable timing gear, stock cam and rockers off the other engine to save a buck.  Won't be using the traded for Toyota 22R HG or the swapped for cores 282 cam so -$24 for the shipping associated with those parts I was including. 

Total is now at $231.87.
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2017, 08:37:31 AM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #16 on: Oct 26, 2017, 07:24:13 AM »
Managed to drop off the block to the old guy's machine shop.  Hope this guy doesn't die because they seem to care and they have 30 years ago pricing. 

Only $13 a hole to bore, $25 to hot tank it and they refuse to do the deck unless it absolutely needs it because they don't want to mess up cam timing.  They also would not bore until I had my pistons so they can "get it perfect".

So looks like machine work on the block will be $77.  Running total at $308.87.

We had better add an hour for hauling to the machine shop, so we are at 10 hours now.
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– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #17 on: Oct 26, 2017, 07:50:51 AM »
wow, that is 30 year ago pricing if I've ever heard it. I was looking at 45-50 dollars a hole and 100 to 150 to deck. hot tank prices were 40-60 per load, which is basically everything you need cleaned on a 4 cylinder.
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #18 on: Oct 26, 2017, 09:42:59 AM »
wow, that is 30 year ago pricing if I've ever heard it. I was looking at 45-50 dollars a hole and 100 to 150 to deck. hot tank prices were 40-60 per load, which is basically everything you need cleaned on a 4 cylinder.

depends on where you live and who is doing it.
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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #19 on: Oct 26, 2017, 01:02:55 PM »
I have no experience with DNJ parts so I can't comment on their quality yet, but I have to say this: Those guys I ordered from are flippin' quick!  I ordered this stuff yesterday mid day and it got here right after lunch today. Went all the way to Memphis from Portland on a plane last night and back to Great Falls early this morning.  I have had paint take longer to set up and spent more $ at one time on breakfast cereal. Crazy.

Held up the 20r head gasket to my 22r head gasket and there is quite a noticeable difference in the bore holes.  I am glad I didn't try to use the 22r gasket I think it would have been a problem.

Anyway standard rod bearings, standard main bearings, HG, intake gasket and the rubber stuff for the valve cover...


« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2017, 08:38:18 AM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #20 on: Oct 26, 2017, 10:57:55 PM »
Well I am going to build a shop from old telephone poles and left over roofing pretty soon would that do?

Hey now, that’s pretty much how stocker built his wood shed!  Kinda helped that he still worked for the phone company
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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #21 on: Oct 27, 2017, 07:55:13 AM »
How many miles on this engine?

What do you think/know that caused it to fail?

Gnarls.



Probably something dumb I did   :disturbed:

I have about 46K on that engine (the 22r). It is what I consider a lower cost but very complete rebuild, everything machined, block bored, 10/10 crank, did rods and wrist pin bushings, new valves, guides, milled head, decked block, etc, etc.

I did however swap to a questionable 20r head about 14K miles ago.  Head was un-milled and the surface was perfectly flat.  The valve guides and valves were on the ragged edge of being out of spec, so I put new valves in it, lapped them, valve seals and put it back together.  With the new valves, valve to guide clearance was back in the loose end of acceptable.  I used the old valve springs, so maybe they were shot and I have had enough valve float at higher rpms to smack into a piston?  I am hoping the crank and everything is all OK and all I have to do to use it again is maybe bore out one more size and make a nicer 20r head for it.

As far as why it failed; I don't know yet.  I think I may have toasted rings or maybe even a crack in a piston.  There was very low compression a few weeks ago when I tested it and now there is straight up exhaust blowing right out the front PCV breather.  I did use what I consider "cheap" Chinese pistons and rings from my machine shop at the time.  The boxes were quite generic looking  :smack:. Everything looked OK and ring gap was perfect.  Machine work was all perfect too according to my micrometer.


Maybe I wrecked my rings or melted the tops of my pistons with all that tuning and tweaking before the AF gauge? I don't think I ever went that extreme but I had seemed very rich when I got the aisan carb to really cook.  I was going through a bunch of fuel anyway. I also was pretty lean a few times but only for a few miles.

I did switch to really, really thin synthetic oil last winter.  Don't think that would mess it up but that's another unusual change.

Feel free to make a hypothesis and we will see.

I won't know until I tear it down but hopefully we can learn something from it. I don't really mind messing things up, that's how I learn a lot of times.  I also like putting together these engines so other than the lousy timing financially and with the cold weather coming this is all good :).  When you learn something the hard way you usually learn it well.  This gives the ability to speak from experiences rather than theory, which I am all about.

I like to be able to say to dude getting ready to do something dumb that he shouldn't do such and such not because I think so but because I tried it myself and this is what happened.

PVC valve is good, I even swapped to another known good one, lines and baffle are clear.

In this photo the haze around the breather is actual exhaust gas puffing out at idle.  If you rev it, the breather becomes an oil sprinkler!
« Last Edit: Jan 09, 2018, 10:50:35 AM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #22 on: Oct 27, 2017, 09:43:15 AM »
Machinist called me this morning and they already have my block done.  That was slightly less than a 2 day turn around.  I won't even be able to pick it up until next payday but WOW that was fast. Between those guys and DNJ I think I could tear one down on a Monday and be done for the weekend if I didn't have to work a real job.

Total bill will be $140 instead of the $77 for $13 a hole + $25 hot tank.  Not sure what happened there I guess they maybe hit the deck.  Oh well they were nice, fast and still cheaper than the last time I had a block done so I am happy.

New total is at: $371.87
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #23 on: Oct 27, 2017, 12:42:04 PM »
On the list of sketchy redneck things I have found that do work based on prior experience...

If your head is in good shape and the vehicle it came out of didn't die of overheating you can clean up your head pretty well with varying steps of sand paper and a strait bit of 2x4.

I usually stop at about worn out 220 grit in a cross hatch pattern for a standard style head gasket. Haven't had a head gasket go yet with this method. I would imagine you would want smoother with a MLS head gasket. The one on my 22r that went was from the machine shop and was nearly glass smooth, which may have been a problem I don't know.

You can check to see if it's actually flat with a nice steel strait edge and a feeler gauge. Lay it at all angles, diagonal, 90 degrees across the bolt holes, check everywhere to look for low spots.   Spec is .0059.  I had a feeler gauge that was .0060 and that wouldn't slip. This one won't even pass a piece of copy paper that measured .0025 so it is more than good  :biggthumpup:.
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"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #24 on: Oct 27, 2017, 02:39:43 PM »
Now that I know my head is flat I can move on to attempt valve guide removal and replacement.  You want a 3/8 x16 tap.  Use oil on it so it's not sticky and get it in as far as you can go.  If you only go a little ways the top of the guide will snap off leaving you less to grab when you put your home brew puller in it.  Don't ask my how I know   :qtip:.


“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #25 on: Oct 27, 2017, 02:48:10 PM »
Will your valve guide driving tool fit the 20R guides? If not, I might be able to find the time to make one that will

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #26 on: Oct 27, 2017, 03:01:56 PM »
Will your valve guide driving tool fit the 20R guides? If not, I might be able to find the time to make one that will

The 22r and 20r guides are the same.  :biggthumpup:

I have to find my air hammer this weekend then I can finish!
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #27 on: Oct 30, 2017, 07:19:45 AM »
Me too. I am guessing it will be obvious when I take it apart as much as is going on :).  I am not the least bit worried about telling on myself if I did something dumb.  Everything is valuable if we can learn from it.  I like to talk a lot and tell what I think based on my experiences, but I don't want to come across as thinking I am an "expert" in any way.  I am woefully stubborn about never hiring things out and usually operating on a shoe string budget. This replacement engine is even worse  :gap:. I will say however that when you put together these engines it all numbers, measurements telling you "yes" or "no", machine it or not, new part or not, etc.

Measure it all up verifying everything is within tolerances, have machined whatever has to be machined, measure during assembly, use the best parts you can afford, keep it clean and torque to spec.  Perform proper break in. That's about all any of us can do.  It's not rocket science.

I can say everything looked all OK when I had did the HG about a year ago except for the #3 cyl wall being a bit polished from the HG blowing coolant in there. 

Since then I have been on a mad tuning binge, used a somewhat worn out head and valve train, swapped oils, etc. 

I can pinky swear that ring gap and all clearances and such were all in spec when I assembled it originally, so this was either parts quality or something I changed after the head swap. 

My personal theory is that I leaned it out too much at some point and messed up the pistons and rings.

I want to stay more focused on the new engine in this thread though.  I will post up whatever destruction I find in great detail on the old thread for the 22r.  I know everyone wants that autopsy now but I need the 4Runner to move of it's own power as long as possible so it will probably be a few more weeks.
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2017, 08:04:06 AM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #28 on: Oct 30, 2017, 10:39:40 AM »
Even though this is a quickie engine, I will keep trying to post useful tech...

The valve guides on this head have a ton of carbon on the exhaust side and they seemed tighter than the head I was experimenting on to remove valve guides with the home made tool:  http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=102394.0.  I ended up replacing the washer on my tool with an old valve spring keeper, because it won't deform and it has a little recess that keeps the bit of tubing centered. 

One of my boys was baking a cake so there was already a nice fire in the cook stove. I took the head and put it on the hot cook stove to expand things a bit.  This makes it easier for sure.  I would not put this on a propane or electric cook top, but the cast iron wood cook top has a nice gradual heat that won't mar the head up.  If you have a regular oven to bake it in I'm sure it would work fine as long as your wife is not home ;).

When it got hot enough to burn me a little bit I started the process.  You thread the bolt in until it bottoms out in the 3/8"x16 threads you cut in the valve guides, then you tighten the washer.  It will load up a bit, enough that you can feel the bolt start to stretch, then you get a "CRACK" when the sticky, carboned up guide breaks loose. After that it gets pretty easy and you just keep tightening the nut until the guide comes out.
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2017, 10:52:01 AM by H8PVMNT »
“I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.”
– Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #29 on: Oct 30, 2017, 07:43:27 PM »
Cool trick from my Tercel forum is to get a sink cut out from a granite countertop fabricator. They usually just throw them away. = free surface plate. Use some spray adhesive to glue sandpaper to it.
Put either solvent or kerosene on the surface and slide the sanding block over the surface with the 220 grit paper. It works best if you use spray adhesive or tape to hold the sandpaper tight over the block of granite, but I usually just wrap it tightly and hold it on with my hands, but this allows the paper to tear so you use more sand paper. Start with coarse paper, 220 grit is good (but you can also go 150 if the surface needs to be made flat). slide it back and fourth over the block surface pushing down evenly on the back of the block. This will produce a nice flat surface, you can check this by wiping off the top of the block with a rag and carefully inspecting the gasket surface. You must keep sanding until you get a nice even texture, this may take a quite a bit of sanding the first time this has been done. It is especially critical that the block be very flat across the narrow area between the cylinders, this is where the gasket fails and it must be flat to forestall premature gasket failure. The outside edges are not as critical, they only hold water pressure and the gasket can handle that just fine, but typically the top of the block can be several thousandths of an inch out of flat.
Note that this method produces a smoother surface than a machine shop, smoother will produce a better seal. The silver coating on the gasket is graphite to allow the head and block to expand at different rates and slide over the gasket surface, if it is smooth there will be less damage to the gasket surface when it heats up. So you want to eliminate all of the old machining marks and gasket texture off the surface and have a nice even mat finish. This is also true of the head surface. Once you have a nice even surface around the tops of the cylinders you can switch over to 330 or 400 grit paper, there is no reason go any to any more fine.
-1987 SR5 4runner, 1KZ-te turbo diesel with custom 3" S.S. dump pipe, R-151f transmission, marlin dual ultimate transfer cases w/ triple shifter, SAS, 35's https://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=98969.0
-1984 SR5 Tercel 4wd wagon bone stock - given to my nephew https://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=100547.0
-1:10 scale RC 4wd crawler w/yota axles, R2 2 speed enclosed dig tranny and 1st gen 4Runner body by BigBird
-My front axle service write-up http://board.marlincrawler.com/i

 
 
 
 
 

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