Author Topic: Annoying Orange, 20r Build for the 1980 Pickup  (Read 17013 times)

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H8PVMNT

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #30 on: Oct 31, 2017, 02:57:32 PM »
Ordered an off brand rotary tool for cleaning up ports...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BYRFH8/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I am going to go ahead and add this ($19.73) to my total along with a new set of air hammer bits ($7.87) I got to drive the valve guide tool.  Buying odds and ends during a rebuild is typical...

New running total coin:  $399.47

Spent about another 2 hours between pulling valve guides and scrubbing on the head.

New running total time: 12 hours
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2017, 03:07:38 PM by H8PVMNT »
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 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #31 on: Nov 02, 2017, 08:33:59 AM »
The DNJ bits I have ordered so far were from an online outfit: https://www.partsology.com/  Main reason I went with them is I liked their search and they have the 20r bits listed and figured out.  Prices were great and I have gotten everything the next day every order so far. There has been a bit of discussion on where DNJ parts are manufactured.   I know engnbldr sells DNJ also and their parts may be from different sources.  I looked at my boxes from partsology.com and here is what I found...

The rod and main bearings:  CHINA

The head gasket:  TAIWAN

The valve cover set:  TAIWAN

The intake gasket:  CHINA 
(I'm sure Chinese paper is just as good as Taiwanese paper :) )
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2017, 07:40:55 AM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #32 on: Nov 02, 2017, 08:41:25 AM »
And now I will ask that this thread go back to a well documented engine rebuild for the sake of images to help other guys and to record what it took for time and expense for a quick, low budget rebuild of a typical older R series.   :biggthumpup:

I will promise not to bash suppliers, but I will state facts and observations on the parts including the country of origin.

If we want to debate DNJ vs LCE vs Toyota vs felpro lets start another thread and fill it full of real life experiences ;)
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #33 on: Nov 03, 2017, 07:00:34 AM »
 :popcorn:
1983 TOY SHORT PICKUP .35/12.50S EXO CAGE HOMEMADE BED CAMO PAINT, REARS UP FRONT CHEVYS IN THE REAR, 4 WHEEL DISK, CABLE LOCKER REAR, LOCK RITE FRONT, 5.29GEARS FRONT & REAR.BOBBY LONG 30 SPLINES 9500 lb WARN WINCH. DUAL
T CASES WITH 4.7 IN THE REAR. THANKS MARLIN

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #34 on: Nov 03, 2017, 07:48:05 AM »
OK after a bit of debate about parts and country of origin preference by myself and a few other enthusiastic members I decided to remove any post in that regard, including any negative or doubtful comments I had made. I don't want to offend any of you guys if I have deleted your posts but this thread was getting cluttered by myself and others to the point of distracting it from it's original intent.   I take full responsibility for sending us down that road by my commentary.

I want to make a nice, clean engine assembly thread full on photos for the purpose of helping other guys and to get an idea of cost and time evolved for a low budget, quick rebuild.

As a bonus I can post seat of the pants impressions on the power loss or lack thereof from switching from a 20r/22r hybrid to a regular but well tuned 20r.

Fellas, please review the thread and make sure I didn't miss any negative comments or comments that could be construed as negative by the reader regarding parts suppliers and manufacturers. Let me know and I will edit my text.

Also, don't take my parts choices or shade tree techniques as an endorsement, you have to make your own decisions base on your preference, budget and experience/comfort level.

I invite any comments on what is going on with this build but lets keep it on topic  :thumbs:.

 :beer: :beer:
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2017, 08:25:14 AM by H8PVMNT »
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"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #35 on: Nov 03, 2017, 01:46:26 PM »
I'd like to assemble this as a complete long block and just swap over accessories since I will probably be doing it in a blizzard. 

I dug around in the shed hoping to find enough stuff to put together a timing set.  I have a bunch of 200K+ mile chains, all of which had too much stretch, but I found the wreckage and leftovers of my distributor gear wipe out last year that happened at like 28K if I remember.  The junky re-man distributor in my 22r had seized and the impact broke the drive gear and knocked a link loose on the double row chain, so I replaced the timing set while I was in there with a new OSK one and added an LCE adjustable cam gear.

So I have a new, unused OSK cam gear, a gently used set of tensioner/guides and the 28K mile crank gear from the 4runner 22r. There is even the new Jap crank seal in there. I just need to source a good new double row chain.  I think Napa can get me the OSK chain by itself, we will see.

« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2017, 02:06:23 PM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #36 on: Nov 06, 2017, 12:32:49 PM »
Rotary tool arrived Saturday.  Flex shaft fit well and everything seems to spin well.  Speed is variable from grrrrrrr to zzzzzzzinnnng! Decent quality for a $20 tool I think.
« Last Edit: Nov 06, 2017, 12:50:37 PM by H8PVMNT »
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"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #37 on: Nov 06, 2017, 02:48:05 PM »
I envy the flexxy thing. My dremel is pretty limited as far as trying to port an intake.
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

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Gillesdetrail

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #38 on: Nov 06, 2017, 03:18:51 PM »
So what are you going to do with the dremel? On my 20r head there was core shift in the bowls which benefitted from porting and the ports stepped down in size about half way in the port which I smoothed the step, amongst other work. I suggest not touching the floor, roughing up the intake to about 40-60 hand finish for fuel atomisation, smooth finish on the short side radius for fuel seperation, and removing and plugging the egr ports in the exhaust. Remove as little material as possible to keep the velocity of the air/fuel mix the same and don't waste too much time on the finish of the exhaust port (polishing), in my opinion (gains vs time spent). Have fun and keep posting, love your threads!

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #39 on: Nov 07, 2017, 07:20:50 AM »
So what are you going to do with the dremel? On my 20r head there was core shift in the bowls which benefitted from porting and the ports stepped down in size about half way in the port which I smoothed the step, amongst other work. I suggest not touching the floor, roughing up the intake to about 40-60 hand finish for fuel atomisation, smooth finish on the short side radius for fuel seperation, and removing and plugging the egr ports in the exhaust. Remove as little material as possible to keep the velocity of the air/fuel mix the same and don't waste too much time on the finish of the exhaust port (polishing), in my opinion (gains vs time spent). Have fun and keep posting, love your threads!

That's about what I had in mind...
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
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"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #40 on: Nov 07, 2017, 10:32:11 AM »
So what are you going to do with the dremel? On my 20r head there was core shift in the bowls which benefitted from porting and the ports stepped down in size about half way in the port which I smoothed the step, amongst other work. I suggest not touching the floor, roughing up the intake to about 40-60 hand finish for fuel atomisation, smooth finish on the short side radius for fuel seperation, and removing and plugging the egr ports in the exhaust. Remove as little material as possible to keep the velocity of the air/fuel mix the same and don't waste too much time on the finish of the exhaust port (polishing), in my opinion (gains vs time spent). Have fun and keep posting, love your threads!

Hey Gillesdetrail,

Have you done much porting or polishing?  Did you test with a flow bench and dyno?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #41 on: Nov 07, 2017, 11:25:04 AM »
I envy the flexxy thing. My dremel is pretty limited as far as trying to port an intake.

I envy the flexxy thing. My dremel is pretty limited as far as trying to port an intake.

Dremel offers a flexxy extension for their tool. I have one on mine.
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H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #42 on: Nov 07, 2017, 11:59:10 AM »
Picked up my timing chain.  Ended up being $31. In a Napa box, not an OSK but it says USA on it.  Now we need something from say Europe, maybe Australia so we can get a few more nationalities on this build. 

Has the solid pins like the OSK instead of the rivets like the lousy one I had in the original 22r.

New Total: $430.47
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
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"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #43 on: Nov 07, 2017, 12:33:56 PM »
Picked up my timing chain.  Ended up being $31. In a Napa box, not an OSK but it says USA on it.  Now we need something from say Europe, maybe Australia so we can get a few more nationalities on this build. 

Has the solid pins like the OSK instead of the rivets like the lousy one I had in the original 22r.

New Total: $430.47

Probably a Cloyes.

http://cloyes.com/

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #44 on: Nov 07, 2017, 03:06:37 PM »
Hey Gillesdetrail,

Have you done much porting or polishing?  Did you test with a flow bench and dyno?

Gnarls.

5-6 heads and intakes, no flowbench or dyno, only track tests.

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #45 on: Nov 09, 2017, 02:23:01 PM »
Going to try to put this together this weekend.  As it turns out I have tomorrow off.   :biggthumpup:

So last call,  I am still on the fence about weather to use the Putney 282 cam in this one or the stock cam.  It's sitting here in the box whispering to me.  Based on Glen's video and testimony, you can't get one of these too stung out.  His 4,300 lb truck accelerated like a Celica.

Any opinions?
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
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"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #46 on: Nov 09, 2017, 02:30:02 PM »
I'd save the cam for pinky and run the stock bump stick
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #47 on: Nov 09, 2017, 04:21:11 PM »
I'd save the cam for pinky and run the stock bump stick

because you have so much experience in this matter??
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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #48 on: Nov 09, 2017, 04:38:36 PM »
I say, use a boring cam for a work-a-day vehicle, and an exciting cam for a fun vehicle.

Just my $0.02. Feel free to ignore it...

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #49 on: Nov 09, 2017, 09:08:19 PM »
I think your compression is way to low to run that 282, but it's worth a try.

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #50 on: Nov 13, 2017, 08:14:27 AM »
Made some great progress this weekend but I forgot my camera so you guys will have to wait one more day to see what happened...
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
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"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #51 on: Nov 13, 2017, 08:28:51 AM »
Made some great progress this weekend but I forgot my camera so you guys will have to wait one more day to see what happened...

Did you ever get a compression gauge?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #52 on: Nov 13, 2017, 08:39:04 AM »
I borrowed one to check out the other engine and I can do it again :).  Oh and I was talking about the new engine, I still haven't taken apart the old one.  Want me to check compression on it again before we tear it down?  It was low before.
« Last Edit: Nov 13, 2017, 08:49:19 AM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
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"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #53 on: Nov 13, 2017, 08:47:25 AM »
One thing I will say I decided...

After a PM conversation with Glen (79Coyotefrg) and a bit of comparison shopping cams and looking the few numbers I have on that Putney 282 cam, it falls right smack in between Comp cams 268S ("Solid-Performance use. Wide powerband. Smooth idle.") and 280S Magnum grind ("Solid-Best cam for street performance with 5 speed. Good mid-range and top-end.)", both of which sound like a fun cam for this engine.  I think I will go ahead and try it for the winter and if I don't like it I will order another cheap head gasket and swap it out for a stock stick next summer.

I just have to try it  :yesnod:.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #54 on: Nov 14, 2017, 03:29:07 AM »

..I have on that Putney 282 cam, it falls right smack in between Comp cams 268S ("Solid-Performance use. Wide powerband. Smooth idle.") and 280S Magnum grind ("Solid-Best cam for street performance with 5 speed. Good mid-range and top-end.)"...


CC 260S 440 lift 222 duration

Putney 282 433 lift 226 duration

CC 268S -  445 lift 230 duration

CC280S - 445 lift 283 duration



Do you have different specs on the Putney 282?  Did you ever get a full cam profile on that cam?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #55 on: Nov 14, 2017, 07:24:55 AM »
Hey you did a better job bracketing that than I did in my mind.  I was just glancing at the comp cams website where the duration on the 280S is 242 @ .50. 

Sadly no, Jim will not share any more information on that cam.

I got this:  "The lift on both is 433. Duration @ .050 is 226 and the LS is 110." 

I tried nicely to get more data for you to play with but he said he had been ripped off a few times in the past so he just doesn't give out any more than the bare minimum. 

He then offered this bit: "The Lobe center line is 105. Yeah other specs are kept locked up. If he had all specs he could go in business for himself or pass it on the forum. You will like the cam."

I understand there is way more to it than the lift and duration but we will run it and see how it is.  I am staying focused on the "You will like the cam." part  :greengrin:.  We all know Jim knows his stuff and it gets tested on dynos and in the real world, so I am not worried about the cam exactly.  A am a bit curious about using it in the 4runner but that's where I am trusting Glen's experiences and giving it the benefit of the doubt.

« Last Edit: Nov 14, 2017, 07:32:55 AM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #56 on: Nov 14, 2017, 08:36:03 AM »
Thursday night I scuffed and painted the block.  I wanted a light color for visibility but they were all out of earth tones and diesel colors at the parts store, so my choices were metallic gold, really red and annoying orange.  I chose annoying orange...

Spent about an hour on that.  Engine enamel was about $8.

Time is at:  13 Hours

Money is at $438.47.




I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #57 on: Nov 14, 2017, 08:38:58 AM »
Thursday night I scuffed and painted the block.  I wanted a light color for visibility but they were all out of earth tones and diesel colors at the parts store, so my choices were metallic gold, really red and annoying orange.  I chose annoying orange...






Orange is COOL!!   I like it!

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #58 on: Nov 14, 2017, 08:41:59 AM »
Hey you did a better job bracketing that than I did in my mind.  I was just glancing at the comp cams website where the duration on the 280S is 242 @ .50. 

Sadly no, Jim will not share any more information on that cam.

I got this:  "The lift on both is 433. Duration @ .050 is 226 and the LS is 110." 

I tried nicely to get more data for you to play with but he said he had been ripped off a few times in the past so he just doesn't give out any more than the bare minimum. 

He then offered this bit: "The Lobe center line is 105. Yeah other specs are kept locked up. If he had all specs he could go in business for himself or pass it on the forum. You will like the cam."

I understand there is way more to it than the lift and duration but we will run it and see how it is.  I am staying focused on the "You will like the cam." part  :greengrin:.  We all know Jim knows his stuff and it gets tested on dynos and in the real world, so I am not worried about the cam exactly.  A am a bit curious about using it in the 4runner but that's where I am trusting Glen's experiences and giving it the benefit of the doubt.




I get what Jim is saying and understand his concern.  BUT... cam specs are always provided, like other engine part specs.  Anyone with half a brain can profile the cam and copy it if they wanted to.... but why not just buy one from him.

I only have a 1/3 brain, so I can't do it.



Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

redneckcustoms13

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Re: Little Neddy, 20r Build for the 4Runner
« Reply #59 on: Nov 14, 2017, 08:45:36 AM »
im a sucker for orange. i guess its the old school gm in me... i dig it!
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
01 double cab hunting truck
06 tacoma street truck

 
 
 
 
 

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