Author Topic: Annoying Orange, 20r Build for the 1980 Pickup  (Read 20628 times)

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emsvitil

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The size, number, and positions of the oiling holes in the rocker shafts were designed by Toyota engineers.  In all the years I've been around the 22s, I've NEVER heard of or read about anyone saying that the shafts or the rockers have inadequate oil lubrication.

Perhaps LCE's shafts are designed with a better or more advanced level of engineering?  Toyota has designed and built this type of engine for 5 decades... so what does LCE know that the world's best automotive engineers do not?

What proof does LCE have that their design is superior to Toyota's, or that Toyota's stock design is inadequate for sufficient lubrication? LCE has a good reputation as a Toyota engine engineering company? Perhaps they do know and have proof that their design is better and provides some level of longer life or reduced wear for the rockers and shaft.

I'd like to see the proof.

Gnarls.

So how do I quote your picture.........  look at previous post to see picture.....

Anyway,   LCE can't machine a groove, so they drill three holes instead.     The groove and the 3 holes are so oil flows out the full width of the rocker arm.    I assume the oil exits at the bottom of the shaft where the wear/pressure would be on the shaft and rocker arm.

The limitation on oil flow would be the clearance of the rocker arm and shaft, so area of those 3 holes really doesn't matter.   The single hole with groove would have enough oil flow.

And I have no idea what the extra hole gives you on the shaft.    Something for high lift, long duration cams ????   Or just to LOOK like it's better?

Ed
SoCal
86 SR5 XtraCab
22RE  W56B
31x10.50R15

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Realized over the weekend that I need fresh head bolts.  Getting tired of stubbing my toe on the engine stand...
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Gnarly4X

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Realized over the weekend that I need fresh head bolts. 

For online, engnbldr is a good source and price.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

300k

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For online, engnbldr is a good source and price.

Gnarls.



I'm not experienced with 1985-95 headbolts vs 79-84, but EB sells em for 85-95....and more expensive than LCE. 22.95 vs 32.00. LCE sells the ones for 79 to 84 but for 67 dollars or so.
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken...

Lewis Hein

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I thought the R series head bolts were reusable?

Gnarly4X

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The 20-22R head bolts are not torque to yield, and Toyota does not advise replacement evertime the head is removed.
I have reused head bolts for years unless they are rusted, and then I replace them with used ones!
In todays world of fancy engines, almost ever engine uses torque to yield headbolts :hammer:
The machine shop was playing it safe when they told you to replace them. Look them over carefully, and if they look good, you know what I would do.
75 to 84' head bolt
12x1.25mm thread 166.5mm long
90910-02058  list $4.66 times 10=$46.60
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Gnarly4X

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I'm not experienced with 1985-95 headbolts vs 79-84...

You are not yet experienced in many aspects of life... including Toyota engines.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :blah:

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

H8PVMNT [OP]

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OK then if Marlin said it I will use a decent set from one of the blocks I tore down this year.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Gnarly4X

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OK then if Marlin said it I will use a decent set from one of the blocks I tore down this year.

Back when I did a head job on my stock 1985 22R, my local head shop said its OK to re-use the head bolts if they are not corroded (he's only been rebuilding Toyota heads for about 30 years!!).  I took a wire brush to them and blew out the holes with carb cleaner and compressed air, only very lightly coated the bolts with engine oil.... No problemo.

I also attempted to re-torque them after a couple days back and forth to work... they would NOT budge.

BUT.... everyone has their own opinions and experiences.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Changed the name of this thread.  Used the big cam and I might be running a glass pack so it fits better :gap:
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

redneckcustoms13

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Oh geez. The popping glass pack on a 22r. Better pack your ear plugs lol
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
01 double cab hunting truck
06 tacoma street truck

H8PVMNT [OP]

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It makes deer on the road run away from you.  Well, people run too.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Slabzilla

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Lookin' better all the time, keep up the good work.  I dig your path, did the similar path in the bed of my Toy, Best engine I ever built and more Fun Too!   :biggthumpup:
'85 Xtra-cab, 4.5" Downey Off-Road lift, 12-15 KM2's on American Racing Baja's, Marlin's-4.88's & 4.7's, Downey Off-Road CAI, Marlin rear bumper & sliders

kneedownnate

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I thought Id be cool and run a 12 glasspack on my first gen, which came stock with no cat.  Way too loud!  Stuffed an 18 behind it to try to quiet it down, which it did, just not enough to avoid setting off car alarms driving through parking lots. 

It was still my favorite sounding muffler behind any of my r series engines.
RIP KYOTA

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H8PVMNT [OP]

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I was tired this morning, it was 20 degrees and the wind was blowing like an essobee, so I decided to do some light work.  Consolidated the greasy boxes of parts in the house, then I dug up a couple oil pans.  I was really considering using the later model because it has a flange intended for FIPG instead of a gasket, but the drain plug on the early style still has me hooked.  The old one has a nice fat, hard to strip, 19mm head plug with a big fat drain hole that drops your oil in a few seconds.

In this case I say older is better.  Sraped all the sludge off of the pan.  The whole project took about an hour from finding to cleaning.

New time:  32.5 Hours




I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Gnarly4X

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I was tired this morning, it was 20 degrees and the wind was blowing like an essobee, so I decided to do some light work.  Consolidated the greasy boxes of parts in the house, then I dug up a couple oil pans.  I was really considering using the later model because it has a flange intended for FIPG instead of a gasket, but the drain plug on the early style still has me hooked.  The old one has a nice fat, hard to strip, 19mm head plug with a big fat drain hole that drops your oil in a few seconds.

In this case I say older is better.  Sraped all the sludge off of the pan.  The whole project took about an hour from finding to cleaning.

New time:  32.5 Hours


Gotta give you BIG KUDOs for your persistence and "gitter-done" attitude!  :beerchug: :thumbs:

I have never thought about wanting the oil pan to drain faster.   :shake_head:

I also think that anyone who strips the oil drain plug needs to be spanked hard with a piece of lath and made to sit in the passenger side of the truck and repeat out loud "I'm a dummy" for 30 minutes.  :idiot:

Gnarls.  :gap:





1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

300k

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I have both oil pans sitting around, and I think even a 2wd one. I will be using the tiny drain plug one with the FIPG seal...it drains quick enough and I already painted it lol
:)bestgen4runner [12:45 PM]:   I am so stupid.

Truer words have never been spoken...

H8PVMNT [OP]

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I have both oil pans sitting around, and I think even a 2wd one. I will be using the tiny drain plug one with the FIPG seal...it drains quick enough and I already painted it lol

We should race and see which pan makes you go faster.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Had to pump water this morning which kept me inside, so I worked on the 20r a bit.  Used the copper gasket spray on the head gasket.

About 1 hour on this.

New total slaving: 33.5 Hours

« Last Edit: Dec 12, 2017, 08:25:48 AM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

THK Matt

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you painted the block heater man.
1996 Jeep ZJ Laredo Daily/Weekend Wheeler
5.2L V8, 44RE, NP249, 33X12.50R15s on MT Classics, 5.5in Iron Rock Off Road Critical Path F/R

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H8PVMNT [OP]

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you painted the block heater man.

Haha yeah that one is coming out and another put in.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Slabzilla

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I've always used copper coat on my toyota head gaskets, never had a problem.  Glad to see you using it on this great build.  This'll be a screamin' little  4-popper.    :driving:
'85 Xtra-cab, 4.5" Downey Off-Road lift, 12-15 KM2's on American Racing Baja's, Marlin's-4.88's & 4.7's, Downey Off-Road CAI, Marlin rear bumper & sliders

H8PVMNT [OP]

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I was tired after the beating I took from the trans and t-case yesterday morning so I decided to work on the engine again. Cleaned up my harmonic balancer and put it on.  Torqued the crank bolt with a falling wedge blocking the counterweight on the crank.  Went high tech with the plastic wedge instead of a block of wood.  I didn't see any difference. I only torqued to 75 lbs because I hate when that thing is siezed on there years down the road.

I cut the zip tie on the timing gear loose with a hot screwdriver.  Timing gear went right on with no fight.

About an hour on this stuff today.

Total labor time:  34.5 Hours



« Last Edit: Dec 12, 2017, 08:30:08 AM by H8PVMNT »
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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I took the EGR plate off so I could bring over my LCE block off plate and one of the bolts snapped off. Aaaargh!  :mad: At that point I shot it with some WD40 and went back to bed.  I can deal with this, but experience has taught me... not when I am tired.   :shakehead:

I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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I all ready had the copper gasket spray but to be fair we had better add it to the total since it's worth using.  I got mine for $6.99 at the local Napa.

New total embezzled:  $492.71
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Re-visited the broken bolt this morning.  When dealing with something like this there are three very important things to remember: 1) don't get in a big hurry, 2) slow down, 3) take  your time.

So after letting it sit with WD40 for 24 hours it still would not budge with vise grips.  There are a few options, but I started with heat.  I couldn't find my torch, so I used the wife's heat gun.  You want the aluminum hot enough to really hurt your finger when you touch it, but not necessarily hot enough to sizzle.  I shot a bit of WD40 on the broken bolt every so often in an attempt to get the "capillary action" of the heat to pull some back down the threads.

After applying the heat about twice as long as I thought was necessary I squeezed the vise grips on real tight and attempted to loosen by twisting to the left, but nothing happened but stripping off threads.  Then I re-hooked the vise grips and twisted tighter to the right, then "ptink" the bolt broke loose!   :clap2:

The threads appeared to be coated in ancient dried up anti-freeze scuz.
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Then I cleaned up the surface and put "Toyota Black Death" on the paper gaskets and put on the fancy LCE EGR block offs.  After looking at the EGR passages a while you will realize the back plate is completely unnecessary and all you need to do is block off the exhaust manifold EGR ports and the EGR valve spot on the head, but it's still a cool piece.

I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

H8PVMNT [OP]

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Cleaned up the oil pickup and found a few more bits and pieces for a total of about 2 more hours this morning with the broken bolt and all. 

New time total:  36.5 Hours

Cleaned up the un-painted block heater from the other engine and put it in.  The old crusty one was actually kind of tough to get out.  Here you go Matt...   :thumbs:
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth.
Steve McQueen

"Except for maybe Seattle."  -H8PVMNT

"I plan to hit 300k in this truck"  :)bestgen4runner

 "I'm jealous of your shop. It has concrete and doesn't smell like pickles like the old shop  "  300K

Mudder

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My new favourite go to for stuck bolts is CRC freeze off. I used it on an 86 f250 for the exhaust bolt, which hasn't been touched since 86, and they all came out just fine.

redneckcustoms13

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An old school millright taught me a few months ago about ne
Bees wax. Get the bolt good and hot, take a knife with bees wax on it and touch it to the bolt. The treads soak up the wax and draw it into the threaded object. Works very well.
83 long bed 2wd sas, 3rz, w56, duals with 4.7 rear, 4.88 elock front, spartan rear, 39.5 iroks
01 double cab hunting truck
06 tacoma street truck

 
 
 
 
 

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