:)bestgen4runner's build page.

[blackdiamond]

Here is a link to the add-a-leaf I was talking about:
https://www.amazon.com/Rancho-RS60612-Add-Leaf-Kit/dp/B000CPAFYO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1524458541&sr=8-3&keywords=add-a-leaf

Products like this clearly work well enough for some people to be happy, but as an engineer these type of universal solutions really bug me.  Leaf springs are an engineered product and I'd compare them to something like this for coil springs:

https://www.amazon.com/Superior-18-1201-Spring-Lox-Adjustable-Spring/dp/B00029K20C/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1524459071&sr=1-4&keywords=universal+coil+springs+spacer

[blackdiamond]

Read the page. With lift blocks the U bolts come loose and then you die. this one bolts to the leaf and then the U bolts clamp the leaf down like normal.

So it's a better block, but still just a block.  U-bolts would have to get pretty lose for a block to come loose, but this is an improvement for sure.

[daniresch]

Products like this clearly work well enough for some people to be happy, but as an engineer these type of universal solutions really bug me.  Leaf springs are an engineered product and I'd compare them to something like this for coil springs:

https://www.amazon.com/Superior-18-1201-Spring-Lox-Adjustable-Spring/dp/B00029K20C/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1524459071&sr=1-4&keywords=universal+coil+springs+spacer

"As an engineer" the comparison you tried to present is embarrassing, at best.

Marlin forum members typically work on budget crawlers and stick to tried and true methods of get the job done. I don't believe bestgen is looking for a $3k engineered spring and shock setup but I may be wrong.

Personally i believe the 63's as they sit naturally are too soft, and the add-a-leafs help promote a stable ride while still flexin like a champ.

[300k]

That product you shared is akin to 3 inch wheel spacers, 4 inch body pucks, and drop drag links. Ghetto lift crap for pavement pounders that wouldn't last for one trail ride. That's quite obvious by the fact there's nothing holding it on there, so once the coil flexes out that thing is just gonna pop out

As for add-a-leaves, many people run them with great success. As it is, 63s on a toyota are not what the 63 was "designed" for. It was probably made for decent load bearing, a smooth ride, and stock are mounted shackle under spring. In a toyota, they bear much less load, constantly flex great distances, and are mounted shackle over.

[blackdiamond]

"As an engineer" the comparison you tried to present is embarrassing, at best.

Marlin forum members typically work on budget crawlers and stick to tried and true methods of get the job done. I don't believe bestgen is looking for a $3k engineered spring and shock setup but I may be wrong.

Personally i believe the 63's as they sit naturally are too soft, and the add-a-leafs help promote a stable ride while still flexin like a champ.

I realize that the product I made the comparison is a total joke (though I put half a set on a "jump" car in college) in comparison to an add-a-leaf. My point in all of this is how much people discount the engineering that goes into a quality leaf spring pack. There's more to leaf springs that USA metal which seems to be the one aspect that everyone recognizes as important.

[blackdiamond]

That product you shared is akin to 3 inch wheel spacers, 4 inch body pucks, and drop drag links. Ghetto lift crap for pavement pounders that wouldn't last for one trail ride. That's quite obvious by the fact there's nothing holding it on there, so once the coil flexes out that thing is just gonna pop out

As for add-a-leaves, many people run them with great success. As it is, 63s on a toyota are not what the 63 was "designed" for. It was probably made for decent load bearing, a smooth ride, and stock are mounted shackle under spring. In a toyota, they bear much less load, constantly flex great distances, and are mounted shackle over.

I have considered add-a-leafs for my 4Runner in the past and if running OME springs would consider running an OME add-a-leaf after talking to them about the application. When I discussed it with Alcan they recommend that I not put a new add-a-leaf in my old spring pack.

I don't like the "universal" add-a-leaf solution because the relative lengths and arches are part of what makes a leaf spring function best. I also recognize that the home built packs can do exactly what some want them to do and that fine too. Just overstating an opinion for dramatic impact. It got two responses!

[H8PVMNT]

I might as well...  I would get another set of chevy springs, either 63s or preferably the older, shorter ones.  The older style packs will have some more lengths of leafs than the 63s so you can use them to graduate down in length.  I have ran traditional, thick add-a-leafs in the olden days and I have made a bunch of home brew packs.  Adding a handful of thin leafs always yields better results for me in regards to ride quality and flex.  You can tune one leaf at a time until you get the desired result.  I agree with not adding new material to old packs.  The benefit of using old leaf stock is that it's all ready sagged in, so you don't really get any settling later.  And using material with the same or less arch you won't have your leafs bend around the added material like a typical add-a-leaf.

[zippo]

 

[blackdiamond]

I understand everything you just said, but he said his didn't settle and I asked why he changed them. If they didn't settle, but instead sagged that doesn't sound like very great of a spring.

I had to go looking for this post.  I've been thinking (at random times) about the difference between settling and sagging as it relates to leaf springs.  Here's what I have come up with:

Settling: When a new spring pack is made each individual leaf has a set shape.  Once assembled for the first time the individual leafs become a pack that has never been loaded.  Once the springs are loaded with the vehicle weight and cycled it's expected that there will be some movement within the pack as any friction/binding that was there at assembly comes to a state of equilibrium.  This could, in theory, result is a slightly reduced lift height when loaded, but if the pack were to be disassembled the individual leaf springs should maintain their original shape.

Sagging: When an spring has been cycled to the point that the material can no longer maintain its shape the leafs will start to flatten out under the weight.  If the shape of the individual leafs were compared at this point to what they were new at least some of the leafs would flattened out.

I didn't notice my Alcan springs settling when I first got them and I think everyone generally agrees that Alcan is a quality springs.  TG springs (and others) are expected to settle quite a bit.  My expectation is for the Sky springs to be closer to the Alcan experience.  I think it would be possible that the settling process for a mix-and-match pack or one where care wasn't taken to make sure that the individual leafs were not shaped to all work well together would be more significant, but that's just speculation.

It's be fun to do a before and after test with a set of springs that maintained their lift height and ones that obviously settled significantly.  If they really are changing shape in the beginning and then holding their new shape for a while then the first few cycles of the springs life are actually changing the material properties of the material.

Thoughts?

[:)bestgen4runner]

These showed up today and they are so huge and thick.
Impressive when compared to what I had before.

[EASYRYDERDANGER]

This was a huge area of concern, but your truck will be so strong now! I hear about those plates braking all the time. No more looking over your shoulder now with those big plates.  Everyone will be asking, why does bestgens truck never break, and you will just snicker and say "its these big plates".

[redneckcustoms13]

You have seriously heard of a Tg ubolt flip plate breaking?

[zippo]

These showed up today and they are so huge and thick.
Impressive when compared to what I had before.

This doesn't count! I'm not reading all that!

[:)bestgen4runner]

More parts came in. 
New rear axle upper and lower shock mounts.

[:)bestgen4runner]

Here is a link to the add-a-leaf I was talking about:
https://www.amazon.com/Rancho-RS60612-Add-Leaf-Kit/dp/B000CPAFYO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1524458541&sr=8-3&keywords=add-a-leaf

I went round and round on the options I have to choose from.
I found the add-a-leaf kit you recommend for $46 on Amazon.
It's worth a try at that amount.

[:)bestgen4runner]

Big thank you to daniresch for the add a leaf part number recommendation, it worked perfectly.
I basically installed the add a leaf kit and removed the overload Spring. Came out almost perfectly level. Just a hair taller in the front. I am banking on the front springs settling in about 1/2" once they get flexed a bit.
I'm really happy with the ride height at this point. Frame to ground is at 25 1/4"
I still need to put rear shocks in to really have an opinion on the ride quality.
Next step is to measure for rear shocks and plan out the mounting locations.
Side note, rock lights are awesome while working under the truck. I love them. Thank you Drew for that recommendation. Also Jesse was correct about the one ton rear ubolt plates and ubolts, they look overkill for sure.
Part # for the correct add a leaf to match Chevy 63's to Sky 3f Springs. Rancho kit part #RS60612

[blackdiamond]

Ride height looks really good.

[blackdiamond]

Have you done the flex thing to see if you're closer to 50/50 for the springs?

[:)bestgen4runner]

No not yet. I don't think I will ever be able to accomplish a 50/50.
My goal was to level the ride height and stiffen the rear springs some if possible.
Both goals I can say I have accomplished as I can tell the rear is stiffer than before the add-a-leaf.
When I measure for the rear shocks I should be able to report if there has been a change is spring rate. 

[daniresch]

Glad to see those did the trick for you 
The frame looks level to me now, I know the 4runner rear fenders sit a healthy amount lower than the front fenders.
If you're looking for just a little bit more lift in the rear (~.5in) you can reinstall the overload spring underneath the add-a-leaf.
But it is nice having the overload springs removed and having the extra clearance.
Once you install shocks the rear will likely sit higher too.
I recommend installing leaf spring clamps to eliminate the possibility of them ever shifting on you while flexing.

[toyodaaddict]

The new ride hight looks really good! Probably going to feel a lot more stable on the trail. How much did you drop it 2 1/2 - 3'' ? 

Bye the way, the heavy duty U bolt plates look good to me  .  Im done with 9/16'' U bolts and those plates look like a decent upgrade along with 5/8'' bolts.

[:)bestgen4runner]

The new ride hight looks really good! Probably going to feel a lot more stable on the trail. How much did you drop it 2 1/2 - 3'' ? 

Bye the way, the heavy duty U bolt plates look good to me  .  Im done with 9/16'' U bolts and those plates look like a decent upgrade along with 5/8'' bolts.

Depends on where you measure from
Frame to ground center of door before 27" now 25 1/4" so 1 3/4"
Rear bumper to ground before 29 1/2" now 26 1/2" so 3"
Front bumper to ground before 24 3/4" now 24 1/4" so 1/2" front bumper tilted  up after I dropped the rear so much.
I anticipate the front springs to settle 1/2+ and possibly 1/4+ from the add-a-leaf in the rear.

[:)bestgen4runner]

Found a small window of time to take a step forward on My rear shock challenges.
I decided that this option gives me the greatest number of length and angle options.
Went with the top of the axle location to avoid running into issues with the e brake cable, load sensing proportioning valve, and to protect the shocks from potential damage. All mounts are tacked only at this point. I placed the mount as high as possible and hard up against the floor. I hope it doesn't make noise.
Took a few angle measurements using Mark's mock-up shock.

At rest
First hole 27Deg and 19"
Second hole 32Deg and 20"
Third hole 38Deg and 21"

Waiting on rear bump stops before measuring full stuff and full droop.

[emsvitil]

Did you make the top mount?   

Or is it available somewhere?   (and how much?)

[300k]

Did you make the top mount?   

Or is it available somewhere?   (and how much?)

http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/rear-upper-shock-mount.html

[:)bestgen4runner]

Went down to My storage unit last night after work. Drug out My core T-case.
Time to get to work Jesse, this  4.7 T-case isn't going to build itself. Tick Tock......

[zippo]

If you need any parts let me know. I might have 3 or 4 tcases worth of parts

Also sometimes I feel like the only person who doesn't have a storage unit.

[Rockcrawlintoy]

If you need any parts let me know. I might have 3 or 4 tcases worth of parts

Also sometimes I feel like the only person who doesn't have a storage unit.

I dont have one either.

[blackdiamond]

Went down to My storage unit last night after work. Drug out My core T-case.
Time to get to work Jesse, this  4.7 T-case isn't going to build itself. Tick Tock......

Finally a genuinely significant upgrade.

[zippo]

I dont have one either.

But you have had one. I have never had one!