Topic: Buget 85 hilux first 4x4 ever just goin for it weekend toy!!

[turbo this..]

right well first off im in Australia (Brisbane) name is Josh never had a 4x4 before got a bit of mechanical know how to get my self into trouble

so its an old 2.4 diesel 5 speed 85 year model the boys said why dont well all build a truck for less than 4 grand and go wheeling and see who dose best i said your on 

so far i have
2" cab lift done by some aluminum solid stock drilled to fit a 2" longer bold threw it the block is hard under the cab with the stock rubber in its normal place not sure if this will end up tearing the cab or not??
had a go at some expandable shackles with not much success as they hit the cab mounting bits on the rail will need to fix that and build 2 more for the back end
rebuild the swivel hubs as one had collapsed 

what i think im gonna do rembering ive gotta keep it under a total cost of 4 grand inc truck (600)
do a popper job welding the rea diff (if its going to hold?) and a true trac detroit locker in the front
get some good rubber 30-40" thinking big tread and tinny rims to maximize side wall crush to enhance flex and grip
maby diy the sunrasers i have into bead locks?
dual t cases with what ever internals i need and while im there reco the g box
swap out the drive shaft u joints where needed
relocate the air intake to roof line by snorkel as well as diff, box/t case breathers
what ever needs doing with the shocks? currently taken off as they where holding the axles up when trying to flex
probably need brake lines?
probaly should do something about power stering or hydrolic ram?
flip axle u bolts
maby hi steer?

at the end of the day i want the truck to be
totally happy being submerged half way up the windscreen
make its way threw some bad ass mud bogs
do well on hills
walk the rocks like a boss

im up against a suzuki sierra, nissan navara, nissan patrol, land cruiser not really sure what they will do with there trucks its a case of each to there own haha its not cheating to have some veterans help out is it? i call it research...
 
i have bought an 83 that i now know the cab is different to mine  but the drive line looks the same? any ways it was a compleat truck less its diesel engine so hopeing to use its t case to make my duals along with any box parts that might be the same? its also a 5 speed 7 bolt t case forwad shifter like mine well to the best i can tell its the same box and t case?

axles well i think they might be diffrent tooth count? the axle seals in my trucks front end are the 45mm ones?

give me your thoughts on what will be money best spent on going anywhere and beating my mates 

[Snowtoy]

Having never wheeled before, you and your friends will want to try and go a slow with your modifications, there is a world of difference in handling between a rig on 31" tires and 40" tires, kind of like the difference between a car with 100bhp and one with 500bhp, if new hands one is fine and the other could be deadly.

Looking at what you have to start with and your experience, I would build it this way
-Tires: 33 to start with.  With the 2" body lift you have now you should be able to clear 33's with little effort, depending on wheel backspacing(or offset), tire width combo you might need to cut the front fenders or add an additional main leaf to the both sets of springs.  An additional main leaf to the leaf spring pack will give you about an 1" of lift and wont stiffen the ride or reduce spring flex.
-Differential Gears and Lockers: 5.29 gears(will be a bit over geared for the 33's, but right for if/when you go to 35's or bigger) 
Auto-locker front and rear, or if on the cheap spool for the rear auto for the front.  Spool is better than welding, when welds break it takes out the gears, a spool runs about $125(U.S.), and is a better option than welding.  Of course if the your funds allow it, ARB lockers are the best of both worlds.
-Body protection and recovery points:
Looks like you have the front covered as far as protection goes, so some rock sliders to protect the rocker panels will keep your doors functional, no need for a rear bumper, but you need solid attachment points for a recovery strap.  If you want a winch, I would go with a receiver mount style with a drop hitch receiver in the front and rear so you can use the winch front and rear.
-Dual cases:
Based on the U.S. models you should have the cases you need to run dual cases(either stock gears, or regear one case to 4.7 gears) you just need the adapter plate to join the two cases together.
-Snorkel so you don't flood the engine with water when fording deep waters.
Without the stock bed you can go with a flatbed(flat deck) to hold gear, or possibly something like what I did with what has been named a  Safari Bed if you are going to be out for more than just a day, or this simpler version I rebuild/modified for a neighbor.

With what you have now(no mods) you could likely out wheel what your buddies have(depends on the model of the Patrol and Cruiser) if your wheling experience is the same, with the mods, I would think you would have the edge over them all.

With the drivetrain and tire set-up listed above, you should be able to wheel all of the terrain you stated, my only concern would be your version of a mud bog is.  Here in the west part of the U.S. our version of a mud bog on the trail is little more than a puddle to our Southern counterparts, if yours is on par with the our Southern wheelers(swallows a 40" tire) you will need a lot more ponies under the hood than the Toyota diesel(a much larger budget than $4k), but then again with what your buddies are building, none of them will get through it either.

The double shackles were a bit of a fad here in the U.S., for the most part they are one of those ideas that looked good on paper/in theory, but in real world applications under constant changing input conditions they weren't.  A buddy ran the "Revolver" brand, which worked fine on flat terrain, but when in an off camber situations the high side would unhinge, changing his center of gravity, increasing his risk of rollover, and after breaking one, he went back to standard shackles.  The quarter elliptical design(part of a main leaf attached to the frame holds the upper part of the shackle) is a much better way to go than the double shackle, allows for more droop, but wont unhinge like the double shackles do.

[turbo this.. [OP]]

what is a spool diff? is it like those ausie lockers that click when going round corners?

anyways i have decided to tig weld the rea diff center ive gotten it out broke it down cleaned it up real nice in solvent then soaked in mineral turps and blown off with air hope fully thats enough to get what i can of the oil outa the casting and gears surface

ive rough cut the mild steel bits to go in they are 8mm thick and ill put a nice beval on there to sink the beads in for what i hope to be a good structal weld to make it permanate and never brake

i will be doing a nice pre heat in the oven probaly to 180-200c then get my tig on with some stainless filler? not realy sure what filler rod is best here just a stabe in the dark that ss might work? then ill wrap it up in the fiberglass heat blanket to slow the heat loss

probaly a lot off screwing around to lock a diff that will be comeing out down the track anyways but u want to do it because i can and ive never done it also some filler rod, argon, time is far cheeper than buying a diff center imo

probaly not that good for trying to turn when on rocks as it will try pull/push the rocks and make it unstable but im gonna give it a go

o yeah its 30 spline to some reson i wanted to know what the splins were cant rember

[84Flatbed]

I don't know the best way to describe a spool but it's a full time locker, I think it replaces all gears except the ring and pinion. Effectively doing the same thing as you welding the gears.

[Snowtoy]

This is what a spool looks like,

it bolts to the ring gear and replaces the stock carrier.  You don't get any clicking/popping noise with one as you do w/an auto-locker(ausi, detroit, etc.), you just get a lot of tire chirp/squeal when turning in parking lots, the same as you will with a welded diff.  The only difference between a spool and welded diff, is a spool is stronger and it costs about 1/3 or half of what an auto-locker does.

With the amount of prep work you have done/plan to do, you should be giving yourself the best opportunity for the welds to hold.  It will also give you an idea of what way you want to go if/when you decide to go with lower gears.

You are right, the welded diff will want to push you in a straight line, auto-lockers do the same thing.  Turning in the rocks or on tight trails will also be more difficult, which is why I don't recommend beginners use them, it is hard enough trying to pick the right line and set themselves up for it w/o being pushed all over the trail.  Granted with you and your buddies competition your situation is a little different than most.

[turbo this.. [OP]]

ahh i see much better than what im doing haha evry buck safed counts and its only till i decide on gears and then it will be one of those quaife stype tourqe biausing ones

here are some picture since its to early to grind them to fit in






as the gears them selvels are to far to weld to the basket and its dumb to try weld the teeth together im going to put a plate in the center over the pin
suld get a nice multy pass weld in there against the flat on the axle gears and a litle bit on the planet gears

the diff looks qoute worn and pitted on the flanks to me so dont feel so bad for destorying it haha cage looked good tho

dam can i make noise yet?

[turbo this.. [OP]]

looks real ugly but it should be solid new to tig realy should have got more practice to make it look nice kits hard to get the big air cooled torch n filler rod in there and also see with out dipping the tunston lol anyways its cooling down then ill check it for cracks and get it back in the truck and find something to climb haha

[Dirt Mover]

I ran my rig welded for 12yrs on and offroad with 35" to 37"s tires and welded it similar to how you did yours without breaking it. You'll be fine and if it does break, a spool or locker will replace all of it anyways.
If you welded the 4:10's you'll probably be underpowered in hi range with 40s, but with an ultimate tcase set up you'll have a lot of gearing options.
The goofy leaf set up does work pretty good as mentioned. When climbing up vertical sections you might suffer from this set up though. You might want a track bar to help with axle wrap this will cause.

[turbo this.. [OP]]

awesome to here that its possible for a welded diff to stay in one must just be the half way hack jobs that brake and those guys wine and complain ?  haha
how did it go with tyers being welded? skip and slide and eat rubber while turning sharp?

makeing some progress mostly finished the tray now still want to do a head board and rock sliders kinder going a bit crazy makeing a tank out of it but so manny guys smash there doors and sills in







it looks like the tray falls short of covering the chassis but it actually over hangs by 50mm (2")or so

ive got the tray up that high as ive got evil plans to 4 link at some stage so ive allowed enugh space to build a custom tank up out of the way
started on the tank aswell just need a new argon bottle...

plan to have the rock sliders joined to the tray near the cab and some wheel arch bars aswell it will be checker plate top and have some kind od head board

anyways thought id drop some progress pics in not much going on as ive got two project cars going atm funds and time are down haha

[turbo this.. [OP]]

really should have taken some more recant pics of the tank and sliders before going inter state as they are old ill post them when im back home after x mas

ive built the sliders to be flush mounted with the chassis only a 5mm step so should slide nicely over stuff time will tell
they clamp by a pinch bolt over the top with a crush tube just smaller than the rail with i tried my hardest to make em move they seam solid but might put some gussets to help spread the load from the box section to the flat plate? but i do think they will do the job its not hard core rock raceing its crawling so not intending to drop the truck in them more brush up againts things

tank is 120L diesel and back section is 45L water ballast that ill use to wash things like mud filler radiator, windows, turn signals, rego plates keeps the cops away or dump it out when i get stuck idea is to get more weight over the back wheels hopefully balancing the truck better

looking at a 40-50 inch light bar to go on top of the trap/cab its often dark when we decide to go wheeling or we are out and it gets dark cos some one has gotten stuck in a sandy river bead  the chassis below the sand and sitting on the cab fun fun took a lot of digging and winching to get out thats a holden rodeo for ya

ill post up some pics of the tank and its plumbing as being a flat tank when angled makes the fuel move away from the puck up.. my solution is a 7L tank that the engine takes and returns its fuel from/to it will be more clear when you see it

the whole point of the tanks is to get rid of the factory tank and to move the weight center and back on the truck for better balance its not really wanting more fuel but thats a bonus for being in Australia
makes loads of space to link it later on if i so please tank mounts between chassis and tray right back over the rea wheels its 150 high 1050 wide and 1050 long but has a divider at 800 to separate diesel and water tanks
ive tested it and thees no leaks i put 3psi in the diesel tank had the water tank open to air and left it over night no change
baffles are roughly 200 apart and have a 3mm gap top and bottom with the center most ones more gap near the outlet the bottom of the tank has a dome in it ill make a vid that explains it better   















still need
checker plate for the tray top
some tubing to make fender bars and tray top bars
shocks that have enough travel and some mountings for them
u bolt flip kits
t case mount
shifter boots
33.5" silver stone xtreams decided on them for cost and aggressive tread not needing to mess with diff ratios ect
front drive shaft Canadian joint bit thing it flops allover the place ka clunk ka clunk.. u joints seam ok tinny bit of slop but really stuff all

wish list
like to get a cheep winch
high steer and something to help me turn the wheel like hydro assist or full
dual t cases
diy slim line t case support plate

mostly just wanting to get in on the trails asap so finishing up the tray and tanks then shocks and u bolt flop and a new transfer case mount finally some treads

[Snowtoy]

Truck is coming along nicely

[turbo this.. [OP]]

well trucks been sitting for a while at idle so time to get back into ill take some pics tomorow

did quite a bit today and hopefully if the wether gets a bit better ill paint the tray and finush the side runners and paint those aswell

turble is i think im going to want to paint the chassis and then well the diffs suspension cab well you know whats its like or at least thats how it is for me it like hmm that part looks grate now but now the rest looks crap so paints that bit to find out the whole trucks painted and like new haha hope fully we dont get to that its ment to be a cheep truck

so dont rain and bugger off humidity so i can paint its plenty worm just raining atm and if the sun comes out hard the humidity will be killer grrr my tray will be going all rusty if its left much longer!

[turbo this.. [OP]]

right well making tracks now!

tray and side steps are painted and where they live look good to me

looking at mounting the spare wheel and a tool box on the tray now as lets face it i dont want a flat in the bush and have to drive on it to get home and ill need some place to put my straps and stuff for when we go for 3 days trips or what ever

so tanks in and sweet well happy with it at this stage i put in 10L of diesel and parked it on a really messed up angle where the big tank can not feed the injunction pump making it relay on the "surge" tanks 7L capacity to fuel the engine lets just say i gave up and parked it up after 2 hours of sitting at idle so well happy to say the small tank will have loads of fuel to ride out the twisty bits till the main tank can feed it again

so the truck sits nice now its got the 40L water tank and 137L diesel tank under the tray witch i guess weighs in at about 200-250kg? it was a struggle for 3 people to lift the tray complete with lights mud flaps tank plumbing pump so shes got plenty of weight on the back end to ballance her up im yet to stick the jack under the chassis rails to see where the piveot point is on the car the whole point was to get the fuel tank up and out of the way of potincaly trinaglated 4 link and also to get the car more centred of the ballance front to rea

looks goofey with the small 19" rubber looking at some 31" or 33" on 15 or 16" steel rims to get her looking right

really makes me want to paint the cab now looking at the tray and steps also want to do a pipe style front bar and wheel arch savors but then the intera is totaly stufed and lets the whole lot down haha wheres the line to stop at?

oh yeah after serching hi and low ive come up with 3 drive shafts to hopefully make a decant one

ill get some pics up tomorow and check out the ballance point hope its about center of the diffs front to rea

should get the roadie done soon aswell so be able to go play in this thing finaly

ohh yeah one of the guys have bought a 60 series land cruser now so might be some real fun

[turbo this.. [OP]]

pictures   






so the "want to do" list is now

rubber 30-35" on 1 piece rims depends on cost mainly
build a pipe front bull bar or at least lift the alu one to match the 2" body lift
cheep winch
u bolt filps front and rea
longer shocks that let it flex to its fullest currently limited by shock travel being to short
high steer
power steering !
rust repairs and paint the cab + chassis

the "need to do" list is

marlin eco seals as it seems the cheep seals in the no name swivel hub kit are poo leaks on the LHS grrr

[84_yota_4wd]

  Yep the eco seals are the best on the market bud. No more leaking knuckles after that

[turbo this.. [OP]]

so plenty of grins so far besides the huge lack of power from the old tractor 2L engine that things getting some boost up its ass really soon !!

few things vacuum pump is making a high pitch noise ive got a second one so gonna swap it n see? also the oil lines are probaly factory by how stuffed they are so gonna look at some new lines there

both diff yokes are now leaking  and the knuckle on the passenger side hasnt fixked its self yet so just trying to get help atm if work out what size the seals are that i have to then order them and keep the dam oil where it should be!

oh yeah welded diff is wicked almost the whole trail in 2x4 so needs to find better trails only a few places where i needed low 4 and that was just to keep the ride smooth being diesel it loves 1000rpm and low range thing just walks and climbs i really want to go dual std cases now i just need the adapter kit and to sort the drive shaft lengths

longer shocks would be real nice and bigger tyres my poor diff was hitting in every bog hole

[84_yota_4wd]

I have the seals bud pn# mcse-1111

[turbo this.. [OP]]

  o yeah

so got me some new rubber 2x look mint although the cheep alu wheels i got arnt the propa off set so need some spacers to clear the frame rails when flexed up on the bump stops they sit real close the the leafs and well inside the guards

[turbo this.. [OP]]

awesome yota got them on order now so once they come and i get a few hours ill get em in there
one thing i hate is leaks
leaks have no place near any of my cars nether are other mechanical problems whont tolerate it it must get me there and back reliably

[Cheesemaker]

Always loved the look of those tires.  But the US Gov. won't let them be imported in for some reason.   

[turbo this.. [OP]]

me two and i can say they work brilliantly but it the truck stops moveing you better lift up on the pedal or you be in big holes real quick they dig crazy fast in the mud of lose stuff

il like to say the side wall is way stiff atm im on 15psi running std no bead lock rims and i dont dear air down anymore in-case it pops the bead but dam side walls are stiff i hope they get better with some wheeling trips

few pay checks and ill get the other 2 tyers and some where inbtween i need shove the diff forwards a bit as the 33s rub a though now so the 35s will defiantly hit hard last thing i want to to tare the new 35s up

[turbo this.. [OP]]

well gotten a few things done diff is now moved forwards about 1.5-1.75 inches ( one side had three holes drilled on the perch it was in the center one i enlarged the rea most one and copied its distance for the other side so how ever far that is )
in doing so i had to shorten the stabiliser arm or what ever its called i just one end off and bolted it in place had a few guesses at trimming the rod down till it fit then tack welded with the compressed air blower at the ready to cool it off fast so not to melt the rubber bush it took it off pushed the rubber bush out fully welded it and put it back on loots factory
the stering rod was also now to long altho i did not cut it down i just poped the arm off the box and re posistioned it so the stering wheel was straight and the indercator stitch worked propa
now i dont want to run spacers and my rims are neg 22 ofset so they sit way in but it turns out to be just bearly in the wheel arch (i want them under the arch keeps the cops happy) but of cause this causes leaf spring clearance problems so said flopp it ill just wind the stering stops out and call it good yet to find out if its way or bearible might have to run some inch spacers and rubber flares to get full lock stering

also got the crown wheel pinion ratio of my other set of diffs from an 83 they are 4.875 my current ones are 4.55 so my qustion now is it worth building up a pair of diffs to swap for favor of the ratio gain and will the ratio gain be noticible on 35s
o year and i lifted the alu bull bar to match the cab lift now the head lights actualy shine thrwe it haha looks much better


pictures

 





nice full flex/drop rea pics rub marks are from old 12.5 33 16 baja claws

[dropzone]

Are you seriously running dual shackles up front?? I have seen it in the back and it didn't seem to work that well.
Up front it seems it would be nightmare waiting for the front driveshaft to bind and then grenade itself.


The bed came out cool, i like the box..

[turbo this.. [OP]]

na the shackles where an idea that i binned im on stock greasable shackles now with Nathanael bushings

yeah tray came out good the box on top is a bought one tho that i had sitting around needed some place to put things for trips

[turbo this.. [OP]]

got the spare front diff off the wall and pulled it half down found the ratio to be 4.88 like the spare rea one i did yesterday so thats grate news for me

ive decided to build on a budget this set of diffs up and whack em under the truck as something is better than nothing atm so any improvement is a good improvement if it can be done for minimal cost

so ive gotten the housing cleaned up was really nasty hi pressure water blaster with degreaser, loads of compressed air, and the heat torch to get it worm to the touch to take care of any last moisture
same treatment for the 3rd member i did not dissasemble it just blasted the nutts off it same drying treatment but while still hot gave it a good oil down the pinion bearings and rest good turn over to spread the oil

so it now sits as a front housing with 3rd member bolted up and new inner axle seals installed ends bagged and drain/fill plugs back in

next ill prob brake down and clean the hubs hope the wheel bearings and cv bushes are good as i really dont want to spend anymore than a hub kit on this as i do want link suspension and if i do that ill get some 5.29s in there with a proper rebuild lol

but so far both cvs, the 3rd member and look/fell good so win win so far on the super low buck approach to better FD ratios

o yeah one side of the houseing had some smaller bearings and off set bushings? what the?? can i just put the large bearings in place of this??

[turbo this.. [OP]]

for us aussies that like playing in water and mud i think ive found a way to help the fight to extending the life of the cvs, wheelberings and spindle bearings

i regularly put my truck in water over the bonnet so diff breathers and a way to keep water out of the knuckle is well sort after imo so...

what if i drill and tap for a grease fitting on the knuckle where seals dont go like the top near the shock mount

would the grease push past the inner axle seals into the gear oil or push out the rubber/felt pack?

the idea is to litarly fill the knuckle with grease the cv and hub bearings the lot so to push out any water or dirt that may cause damage?

perhaps takeing the square plug out of the hub will take the "pressure off the inner axle seal" to the point it will come out the square bolt hole before pushing past the inner axle seal??

i think since ive gotten my spare axle aprt ill just drill n tap it whack a niple in there and be happy with it see what hapends i can allway just not use it right and it be like normal so i cant see any loss to doing so?

[turbo this.. [OP]]

waiting on the parts shop to call and say the hub kit is in

been bussy cleaning the lot while i wait be painting it all before reassembly to so to make a nice job of it i just wish i had the funds for 5.3 gears and selectable lockers witch a builder kit but im sure it will be an improvement nun the less and if it costs me about 150bucks to do im happy can allwways pull the 3rd and swap gears and locker into a known good axle like wise can weld link suspension on all things for the wish list haha

thinking a light grey paint for the axles

going to drill n tap a cuple of grease niples into the knuckles as i like playing in water and be nice to grease the cvs/torintion bearings to push the crap out therw the wiper seals if the knuckle is full of grease and is regualy greased i cant see any water getting in there doing dammage so seams a good idea to me  also thinking a simlar thing for the wheel bearings but a sunken alen head plug and take the wheel off to grease style still i think can only help

over the top maby but quite often i sit in half meter to meter water water for a few mins so water gets in every where why i have both diffs gear and transfer boxes plumbed into the air box to help prevent cold shock pulling water in

[84_yota_4wd]

waiting on the parts shop to call and say the hub kit is in

been busy cleaning the lot while i wait be painting it all before reassembly to so to make a nice job of it i just wish i had the funds for 5.3 gears and selectable lockers witch a builder kit but im sure it will be an improvement nun the less and if it costs me about 150bucks to do im happy can allwways pull the 3rd and swap gears and locker into a known good axle like wise can weld link suspension on all things for the wish list haha

thinking a light grey paint for the axles

going to drill n tap a cuple of grease niples into the knuckles as i like playing in water and be nice to grease the cvs/torintion bearings to push the crap out therw the wiper seals if the knuckle is full of grease and is regualy greased i cant see any water getting in there doing dammage so seams a good idea to me  also thinking a simlar thing for the wheel bearings but a sunken alen head plug and take the wheel off to grease style still i think can only help

over the top maby but quite often i sit in half meter to meter water water for a few mins so water gets in every where why i have both diffs gear and transfer boxes plumbed into the air box to help prevent cold shock pulling water in

I've  seen people  remove the plug at the top of the knuckle & drill it out for a grease zert But it will push out past the inner axle seal & the felts. The problem  is  it doesn't  grease the inside of the birfield. That's why the RCV axles have a grease zert and  a gun drilled shaft to lubricate the inside of the birfeild. One the other hand if there is alot of water in the knuckle it could help push It out or into the diff. But the wheel bearing idea is sweet!

[turbo this.. [OP]]

well im gonna give it a go if i have to remove the square plug to remove pressure then grease it so be it but i think if the housing is "full" of grease the chance of water ingress is far less of causing damage

interesting about the cv itself with the grease niple and a hole bored into the knuckle to grease it thats a grate idea that i may look at its no prob to drill n tap a hole in the cv while its out and same for an access hole for the gun to get at it wit an alien plug or something

picked up the hub kit this arvo but forgot paint 

[84_yota_4wd]

http://www.rcvperformance.com

it's behind the locking hub not on the side the would definitely weaken the bell. Check these out.