Topic: Marlin Gurus Unite!!! Strange power loss issue 22r Fuel economy bad as well

[Toyospearo]

A friend of mine called me a few weeks back and he asked me to look at his motor. He has a motor similar to mine.
 He was having power issues.  He thought with the hardware he bought for this 82 4 x 4 it should have quite a bit more power.
This is the rundown
1982 22r
fresh motor bored 60 over (2367 miles)
stock OEM head rebuilt (valve job)  with the new motor
Melling 260 cam new
new valve adjusters
Straight pipe no cat stock muffler
strange aftermarket header with no markings on it :roll:
NEW Weber 32/36 DGEV carb
New dual row timing chain, oil pump, waterpump
Radiator new
truck has a 2 inch suspension lift with 31 10x50 15's
LCE adjustable cam gear
Cam gear is set at 2 degrees retarted
distributer is 0 degrees with vac advance off


ISSUE -
From the get go my buddy said this truck doesn't have the power it should.  He toyed with the cam timing and adjustable cam gear but still no change.
The truck bogs down up light grade hills.
Not responsive on the lower end or upper end - punch the gas and it slowly climbs up the rmp with really no punch.
Gas milage is bad!  I am monitoring it for him and as of now we filled the tank and it is at half and only 63 miles on the clock.
I did a compression test and all four cylinders read 167
I have checked and rechecked for intake leaks and there are none.  The rig idles fine no issue.
valve lash 8 and 12 cold
One thing.  He tested the compression a few weeks ago and it was as follows : 138 in #1   137 # 2   151 # 3   45 # 4
He pulled the head and had a valve job on the head. He put it back on and the compression is 167 across.  BUT the lack of power is still there.  I have checked the teeth and it does not appear any are off on the dizzy or the cam gear.
I am wondering if that header might be an issue.  I have no idea who made it or where it is from.

I have no idea what to do next.   I am in need of someone who would know what to do next...
Here is the header.  Could this be the culprit?  Bad airflow?  I am at a total loss.

[Snowtoy]

Not a guru, but in my experience w/it not having power at either end of the rpm range, it likely isn't the header.  An open exhaust system usually sacrifices low end torque for higher end power and higher rpm levels.  If you have an oem exhaust manifold you might have him swap it and see if there is any change.

Other info that might be helpful;
Is the truck new to him?  Is he used to driving a 22r?  Did it have power before he pulled the head?  Is he running a 5-spd or 4-spd?

[79coyotefrg]

have him pull the valve cover, set the crank timing mark on 0* then post a picture of the cam timing.

Cam gear is set at 2 degrees retarted
distributer is 0 degrees with vac advance off

set the cam at 0*  dead on the money till further notice.

why is the distributor at 0*??  it needs to be at 8*

having the weber, aftermarket cam, and a header going into a stock muffler is like building a monster truck like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6djxQ0a5Jqg&NR=1


cut the dang stock muffler off and run some 2 1/4 tube from the header to a muffler of your choice thats 2 1/4 inch in and 2 1/4 inch out into a tail pipe that at least goes past the rear axle.

get that done then we'll attack cam timing and weber jetting.

[Toyospearo [OP]]

I drove it over and over and it does lack power for what is in it.  I am leaning toward the carb being off.  But I cant imagine it is cause this much of an issue.

i checked it.  0 on the crank and the cam pin is right a 12 o clock.   

[79coyotefrg]

I drove it over and over and it does lack power for what is in it.  I am leaning toward the carb being off.  But I cant imagine it is cause this much of an issue.

i checked it.  0 on the crank and the cam pin is right a 12 o clock.   

did you make sure the chain was tight on the drivers side??   right side as your looking at the engine?
this is very important 2* off can be a big issue.

[Toyospearo [OP]]

did you make sure the chain was tight on the drivers side??   right side as your looking at the engine?
this is very important 2* off can be a big issue.

Do  you mean when installing the cam sprocket on the chain?    I don't know if he did or not.  I do know the cam pin is lined up correctly with the arrow on the rocker arm with 0TDC on the crank.  
The LC adjustable cam gear has been retarted 2 degrees by him due to the decking and head blocking issue.  He said it didn't make much difference from straight 0

Getting a dual row adjustable cam gear on the cam is a PITA!   I am not sure I could do it keeping the chain tight on the right side.
could you explain the chain issue in depth???

[1980yota]

I have my timing set 12* advanced. This seemed to work the best for me. Not sure why it would be 2* retarded. That would hurt performance especially on the low end. Also, as stated earlier check the muffler it could be partially stopped up if it is the stock one that is 30 years old.

As for the chain all the slack needs to be on the passenger side because thats where the tensioner is at. When installing it you want to make sure it is tight on the drivers side between the cam and crank so that the tensioner on the passenger side takes up all the slack.

[Toyospearo [OP]]

I have my timing set 12* advanced. This seemed to work the best for me. Not sure why it would be 2* retarded. That would hurt performance especially on the low end. Also, as stated earlier check the muffler it could be partially stopped up if it is the stock one that is 30 years old.

As for the chain all the slack needs to be on the passenger side because thats where the tensioner is at. When installing it you want to make sure it is tight on the drivers side between the cam and crank so that the tensioner on the passenger side takes up all the slack.

Yes I understand.  I did that on my 94 single row.  I remember that.  I am not sure if his was set up that way.  I will pull that off and check it and adjust his cam gear back to 0 at 0TDC.   The muffler is brand new no cat stock. No issue there.
Your timing is set at what with the vac advance off?

[crazykooter]

The lack of power is your timing.  There is no way that thing would run right with it retarded.   Personally I would just get rid of the adjustable timing gear.  They are really for dirt track high rpm type engines.
I run my 22R at 5* timing and when I head into the mountains I retard it to 3*'s.  Also since its idling smooth, it leads me to believe the carb has been adjusted to get it to idle right.  I would back off the idle speed and advanced the timing to 5* then adjust idle to 800-850 rpm.   

[Toyospearo [OP]]

update....

After so much investigation as to why this 22r is eating gas (10MPG) and is underpowered and the compression is sort of low in all cylinders 148 in addition to the dizzy being installed correctly and then when i try to set the timing the dizzy bottoms out and wont go past 0.  No room left in the adjusting space.   I pulled the timing cover and below is what I found.  The lower crank gear was off by at least 3 degrees.  I moved the gear so the dot was at 6 o clock.  I put the whole mess back together and the truck had more power ran great BUT when i installed the dizzy correctly I would go to turn the dizzy down to get the mark over to 0 and it would not it would bottom out on about 4 degrees on the oil pump.  SO  i pulled the the old harmonic balancer off and I put a new on on my buddy gave me.    I talked with ted at EB and he said I wasnt quite right on the chain and the old balancer could be the problem  THat is why I put on the new balancer. Balancer was not the issue.
here are some pics.  If anyone sees or has any idea what is going on here please help.
This is the setup when I pulled off the TC.  It is off to the right just a bit..


This is where I set the cam before I put the chain on..

Here are a few more pics of the corrected lower crank gear...
THis is it after I adjusted it.. Note the chain link.  The dot is right in the middle of the dark link.  This is a dual row setup.  There is no bright or dark link on the opposite side of the chain for some damn reason.  Note where the links are on the top cam gear...   very strange..
THe truck had more power after I made this adjustment...






Here is the dizzy position.  Perfect but no where near a typical 22r timing setup.  0 is where the dizzy wont go any further..

[Snowtoy]

Here is the dizzy position.  Perfect but no where near a typical 22r timing setup.  0 is where the dizzy wont go any further..

If by this you mean when the engine is at TOD, with the distributor in, it can't be adjusted anymore to set the timing.  If so, pull the distributor out, rotate it a tooth or two and reinstall it. It might take a few attempts to get it right, but this will allow you to gain the room needed to set the timing.

[79coyotefrg]

If by this you mean when the engine is at TOD, with the distributor in, it can't be adjusted anymore to set the timing.  If so, pull the distributor out, rotate it a tooth or two and reinstall it. It might take a few attempts to get it right, but this will allow you to gain the room needed to set the timing.

[Toyospearo [OP]]

If by this you mean when the engine is at TOD, with the distributor in, it can't be adjusted anymore to set the timing.  If so, pull the distributor out, rotate it a tooth or two and reinstall it. It might take a few attempts to get it right, but this will allow you to gain the room needed to set the timing.

tried it over and over.  One way or the other it will not start.  It will only start and run in the position shown.  I wish that would fix it but it doesnt

by all intents and purposes the dizzy is in correctly.