Author Topic: New motor 22r strange acceleration at idle and power loss.. (Read 8491 times)

Toyospearo · « **on:** Apr 16, 2011, 03:57:00 PM »

Just put in a new motor in my 1982 22r 4x4, new head, 268 cam, bored 0.60 over, dual row chain, LCE adjustable cam gear with the same carb and intake, new electronic fuel pump. Carb was recently rebuilt and ran perfect on my old motor.
I Didn't change anything on the carb during the swap and I am experiencing an acceleration at idle after the motor comes up to temperature. The rig will race up to around 1200rpm from 950 all on its own. I continues to do this. I am also at a loss of power. Not a huge loss but noticeable.
I have timed the rig to spec. Cam timing is perfect. Everything is new tune up wise.
When the truck reaches temp I spray starter fluid along the edge of the head where the intake meets the head and the idle speeds up. There are no visible leaks. I have looked and looked. What would cause this?? There is something up but I can't figure it out. It should also have a bit more power. I have great compression and I just installed an adjustable cam gear from LCE.
I am pretty certain at this point it is carb related and that is why I started this thread.
Someone please help!

jimbo74 · « **Reply #1 on:** Apr 16, 2011, 04:56:46 PM »

sounds like a vacuum issue

like a line is removed, hooked up incorrectly, or damaged

also, the starting fluid issue, leads me to definitely think it is a vacuum issue...... or a manifold isn't sealed properly somewhere......

either way, its getting ambient air, somewhere it shouldn't be

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #2 on:** Apr 16, 2011, 07:21:04 PM »

Quote

I spray starter fluid along the edge of the head where the intake meets the head and the idle speeds up.

you have an intake manifold gasket leak. remove the intake and replace the gasket (or tighten the bolts)

yotaneck13 · « **Reply #3 on:** Apr 16, 2011, 07:49:22 PM »

Quote from: 79coyotefrg on Apr 16, 2011, 07:21:04 PM

you have an intake manifold gasket leak. remove the intake and replace the gasket (or tighten the bolts)

X2 if you spray starting fluid on it and it speeds up regardless of wether you can see a leak or not there is a leak

OOPS · « **Reply #4 on:** Apr 16, 2011, 08:38:11 PM »

If you use an unlit propane torch instead of starter fluid you will be able to pinpoint the vacuum leak easier, it is safer also.

Toyospearo · « **Reply #5 on:** Apr 16, 2011, 10:37:35 PM »

I have all day tomorrow to figure this out.
Would an intake leak cause the truck to be sluggish?? Using the propane torch method should I take the stock air cleaner off and go up and down and all around the intake gasket??? What is the best method to find it?
This motor is lacking that extra kick that seems symptomatically different than an intake leak. I have not had too many intake leak issues in the past. Just not ones like this.
Thanks everyone for the help!!!

Toyospearo · « **Reply #6 on:** Apr 17, 2011, 06:41:53 AM »

Also,
I used the thin paper gasket from the engine kit I got. Is there a better gasket for the intake on a 22R??

jimbo74 · « **Reply #7 on:** Apr 17, 2011, 07:09:22 AM »

there is the thin paper gasket, but there is also the thick insulator that should be replaced..... its a big chunk of plastic, it's really a gasketas well.... has the paper above and below it.... good place to start

and carb rebuild shop shoudl have those in stock

Toyospearo · « **Reply #8 on:** Apr 17, 2011, 07:31:06 AM »

I haven't seen those. If I replace it with the felpro intake gasket with the red sealant built in would that be good?
Or, does Napa sell that thick chunk of plastic.
Also, do I need to remove the air cleaner to check with the propane torch for leaks? I am asking because if the carb senses propane it will affect it. I suppose I could put a piece of sheet metal blocking the carb while I am running the torch along the intake wall.

In my experience spraying starter fluid into the intake where there is a leak makes the RPM's go down and the rig to run like crap. In my case spraying it in there makes the RPM's go up.

jimbo74 · « **Reply #9 on:** Apr 17, 2011, 07:56:38 AM »

the insulator is on the bottom of the carb, between the carb and the manifold

i just realized you had a older 22r.... what i mentioned was for a newer 22r, so it's possible, it doesn;t even have that part..... nvermind

Toyospearo · « **Reply #10 on:** Apr 17, 2011, 03:49:05 PM »

Just replaced the intake gasket. This stopped the idle up and down issue but not the power loss issue. When I hit the gas it cuts out for a split second and then catches up.

Not sure why. Also seems like there should be a little more power.
Anyone with any ideas on what to check next??

yotaneck13 · « **Reply #11 on:** Apr 17, 2011, 05:08:40 PM »

adjust your timing at the dist.

Toyospearo · « **Reply #12 on:** Apr 17, 2011, 05:16:52 PM »

Quote from: yotaneck13 on Apr 17, 2011, 05:08:40 PM

adjust your timing at the dist.

I just timed it at 8 degrees BTDC vac advance off for the 82. Seems that is the definitive setting for this year motor. I had it timed at 5 degrees.
It is raining so hard I am going to stay put for now. I will take it for a spin here in a bit.

twistedtoy92 · « **Reply #13 on:** Apr 17, 2011, 09:40:52 PM »

did you degree your camshaft to the crankshaft and if so, where did you degree it to?

Toyospearo · « **Reply #14 on:** Apr 18, 2011, 07:17:45 AM »

I have put on an adjustable cam gear and I am tinkering with where the sweet spot is. I don't have a cam degree kit. If worse comes to worse I will get the kit and go through the process..

twistedtoy92 · « **Reply #15 on:** Apr 18, 2011, 12:49:06 PM »

that's your best bet, i went ahead and degreed mine, found true center line then advanced the cam 2 degrees. Having thrown an adjustable gear on and not degree it properly will give you poor performance

it sounds like you need to advance it. if its too retarded itll stumble off the get go but once you get the revs up itll scream! Having it advanced gives you more getty up n go in the low end. Just remember this; further retarded= more top end (horsepower), further advanced= more bottom end (torque) Hope that helps! $Beer Chug\'n$

Toyospearo · « **Reply #16 on:** Apr 18, 2011, 01:42:27 PM »

So if you don't degree the cam then you have to keep adjusting and testing adjusting and testing ect. until it performs the way it should??
How do you get it dialed in without having to go through the pain of the degreeing process??

twistedtoy92 · « **Reply #17 on:** Apr 18, 2011, 03:15:45 PM »

move it one degree at a time until it performs. those adjustable gears arent actually at 0 when they say they are. You might as well just degree it, for instance this is at zero, but in reality my cam was 3 degrees retarded.

Toyospearo · « **Reply #18 on:** Apr 18, 2011, 05:46:56 PM »

So that set up in the photo is with the lob center at absolute 0? You have perfect 0 from going through the degree process?
That is the red older cam adjuster from LC (I think).
I have the newer black one. The black one is set up from LC to be in the exact spot as the stock dual row gear.
I talked with a couple of 22R engine builder guys who told me if you line up the dowel with the arrow on the rocker arm assembly you are pretty much in there. Not sure about that but it makes sense relative to the tensioner retarding or advancing the cam due to block and head shaving.
I really don't want to have to buy that damn degreeing kit. That thing is not cheap and I can only imagine the headache it is to get it perfect.
If you have the degree kit would you rent it out

twistedtoy92 · « **Reply #19 on:** Apr 18, 2011, 07:29:50 PM »

no that was actually retarded a few degrees and yes its the old red LC gear. I'll be getting the black one for the runner. I have a lot of tools being a flat rate mechanic for a living so all I needed was a degree wheel. My buddy happen to have the comp cam set from summit so he let me borrow it. Its a PITA to degree it when the engine is in the truck but its not too bad.

Jegs has a pretty good deal on this stuff: http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp%20Cams/249/4790/10002/-1?CT=999

Toyospearo · « **Reply #20 on:** Apr 18, 2011, 08:40:21 PM »

I have forgone the cam degreeing process for now..
See below.
Hopefully this will get the thing running strong!

Toyospearo · « **Reply #21 on:** Apr 19, 2011, 02:00:43 PM »

Learned a new trick today for finding true top dead center. This may be the half assed way but from what I have been told at least it gets you close.
pull all 4 plugs (in case of kickback), wrench the crank clockwise until you are at 0 on the oil pump. Now put a pencil in the 1st cylinder and slowly turn the crank clockwise until the piston touches the pencil, STOP and mark the oil pump where the notch lines up. Now rotate clockwise very slowly until the split second the pencil does not move, STOP and mark where the pulley notch is. Next step is to split the difference between those two notches!
This gets you redneck close to true TDC. If you are not super OCD and don't own a cam degreeing kit this method will get you in the zone.

twistedtoy92 · « **Reply #22 on:** Apr 19, 2011, 11:55:25 PM »

mmmmk.... so did it work? that will ONLY find you top dead center. now how do you devise to find the intake lobe center? hang a pen from your hood? LOL! Just messin. $Beer Chug\'n$

yotaneck13 · « **Reply #23 on:** Apr 20, 2011, 06:09:21 AM »

Quote from: twistedtoy92 on Apr 19, 2011, 11:55:25 PM

hang a pen from your hood?

Toyospearo · « **Reply #24 on:** Apr 20, 2011, 07:11:25 AM »

Quote from: twistedtoy92 on Apr 19, 2011, 11:55:25 PM

mmmmk.... so did it work? that will ONLY find you top dead center. now how do you devise to find the intake lobe center? hang a pen from your hood? LOL! Just messin. $Beer Chug\'n$

If that'll work I'll do it!

The motor is running great. It was advanced over 6 degrees. It has good top and bottom end power.

twistedtoy92 · « **Reply #25 on:** Apr 20, 2011, 02:48:22 PM »

right on, glad to see that did it for you! $Beer Chug\'n$

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