82 Toy, it begins!

[littlebroii]

i don't know but maybe check your barrings it could be one has gone bad

[Early]

what year water pump did you get to replace. If it is single row timing chain then its  newer block (i think). I believe dual row stopped with the new block (anyone confirm?).

This dosen't explain why it worked for 7k though. so my theory for that is that the marks were made from a piece of something that is going around in your coolant system.

So it worked for a while from the builder, then something got dislodged, and you've replaced it with the wrong part. (Don't read that as blameing you, im trying to think outloud so others might be able to branch off.)

A bit ago you said you could run the engine but when you rev'd it would stop the water pump and screech the belt. Is this the same effect on the new water pumps as well? Also are the water pumps similar when held next to each other? the one that came with the ATK and the one from the parts store?

your stumping me, and that bugs me cause im looking at it in my shop 

[hilux-1983]

Just my   but have you thought about changing the alt? It could also be getting hot enough that it is close to seizing.  Then when it cools off, it's fine.  Before that, I would see if you can reproduce the noise and when it's live unplug the alt so that it stops charging.  See if you can centralize the noise that way. The regulator could also cause the alt to be over charging therefore over heating the internal bearings. I'm just going out on a limb by recommending another direction to go since from what I can see, those marks inside the timing cover  do not look that deep and the impeller blades do not look scuffed.  I may be waaaay off, I don't know.   .  3 or 4 or 5 water pumps later doesn't seem to be fixing it. Does the time of day that your "working" the alt coincide with my thoughts? Driving when a lot more accessories are running ie stereo, lights, a/c etc... I hope this helps  

[YotaNate]

OK so the block is a 1984 and originally was installed in a Celica.  Armed with this new info I looked up the part number and sure enough it's the same as for the pickup!  I guess that rules out having the incorrect waterpump, and I reinstalled the Toyota pump instead of leaving the new one I swapped in from Advance Auto for troubleshooting.  I'll just keep the cheap one as a backup.  After I put the pump back on I started the truck with the little belt off (that means NO Clutch Fan, Alt, or Water Pump) and the engine was smooth and quiet, well for a 22r.  Shut it off installed the belt fired it up and the horrible grinding noise is back.  Was sick of it so I went in the house for the night.  
 Fired it up today and no noise again.  We will see how long till it comes back.  Maybe when something actually breaks I'll be able to figure it out and be done with it LOL.

[YotaNate]

hilux it happens the instant i start it, so I don't think the temp thing is a factor.  I actually hope it's a bearing in the ALT or the internals to the fan because when it actually breaks it'll be obvious and I can just replace it.  It's a weird problem though that's for sure!

Nate

[hilux-1983]

I hear my alt charge like crazy every time I start up. The charge guage confirms that too.  Adding to all of this, what do the oil pump gears look like and how are they meshing? Just food for thought. Yes, yes I'm reaching....

[YotaNate]

Not sure on the oil pump, have not taken it that far apart.  Only thing I do know for sure is that it is linked to something running off the smaller of the two accessory drive belts.  

Nate

[79coyotefrg]

what year water pump did you get to replace. If it is single row timing chain then its  newer block (i think). I believe dual row stopped with the new block (anyone confirm?).

dual row from the factory stopped in 82 but a dual chain from those early years can easily be swapped into an engine as late as August of 84 when they started the new block

This dosen't explain why it worked for 7k though. so my theory for that is that the marks were made from a piece of something that is going around in your coolant system.

So it worked for a while from the builder, then something got dislodged, and you've replaced it with the wrong part. (Don't read that as blameing you, im trying to think outloud so others might be able to branch off.)

A bit ago you said you could run the engine but when you rev'd it would stop the water pump and screech the belt. Is this the same effect on the new water pumps as well? Also are the water pumps similar when held next to each other? the one that came with the ATK and the one from the parts store?

your stumping me, and that bugs me cause im looking at it in my shop 

   

[Redcheetah]

Wow- I thought my '81 was one of the most original and clean (overall) rigs I had seen, but your rig is definitely aesthetically superior to mine.  Nice rig!

[Dr.Maxwe001]

just replace the alternator and the powersteering pump and while your there change the starter and the fuel filter as well oh and might as well swap out to the other waterpump as well

[YotaNate]

Max/Jeff can you say SHOTGUN!  lol


Nate

[Dr.Maxwe001]

  Uhhhh GUNSHOT no thats not it let me try again SHOTSUN no thats not it either sorry I dont guess we know that word here in alabama but we do know BLOW THE THING UP WITH A CANNON

[YotaNate]

hahah I meant Shotgun as in you want me to "shotgun" in all those $$$ parts instead of troublshooting and finding the actual problem


Nate

[Early]

so you've got the hilux and two runners right. i hate to suggest take a working truck and make it not work but you could swap alternators. make sure it has the same plug before you pull it. I agree this is worth a shot, especially if you have the availability of another yota.

I didn't catch the whole shotgun thing, but i've wanted to take a slug to my rig before. damn yota.

[Early]

dual row from the factory stopped in 82 but a dual chain from those early years can easily be swapped into an engine as late as August of 84 when they started the new block

Thats an awesome piece of info right there. thanks  

creative   and thanks, now we need to get it out

[crazykooter]

Or you can pay shiet load for a dual row kit for 22REs. Even tho its a lot I think its prob one the best upgrades you can do.

[kneedownnate]

If it ends up being the alt bearings and you feel like rebuilding it rather than buying a crappy parts store alt, look at the bearings and get the part number off it.  I have a little baggy of bearings that fit quite a few alternators and would make you a deal on however many you need.

Also, I'd get a black paint pen, pull the water pump and put a mark across the area where the impeller contacted the cover, put it back on and run it till it makes the noise again, pull it and see if the mark is gone.  You'll be taking the guessing out of figuring out if the impeller is contacting again.

[YotaNate]

Also, I'd get a black paint pen, pull the water pump and put a mark across the area where the impeller contacted the cover, put it back on and run it till it makes the noise again, pull it and see if the mark is gone.  You'll be taking the guessing out of figuring out if the impeller is contacting again.

Nate I did exactly that!  Still makes the horrible noise, it makes it the instant the engine starts and all the time, worst when under no load as in a light rev of the engine while just sitting there.  The marks on the inside of the timing cover have not been touched.  I'm SURE it's not something "floating" through the water passages because it does it ALL the time and I have had the pump off 5 times now.  Nothing in there when I pull it and the instant the engine fires it makes the sound.  I'm thinking a bearing in the ALT or Clutch fan.  Honestly it's been so hot out I don't feel like trying to find the problem, I'm waiting for a failure at which point I'll replace the culprit.


Nate

[crazykooter]

Even tho the water pump isnt contacting the housing doesnt mean the bearing is good.  As a rule of thumb when I check water pumps I put it in a vise and really try wiggle to see if there is any free play at.  Tho even brand new oem ones do move a little its fairly easy to tell if its not right.  Also when pump is out of the truck and you free spin it, it should be ultra fluid.  Beyond all that the fan clutch wont make noises like.  Heck I am a little confused as why you havent (or I missed the post)pull all the belts off and started it to see the problem is there.  I just realized the sound your hearing could VERY well be the dust shield on the harmonic balancer rubbing against the oil pump.   I put a long enough steel pipe or extension to my ear and then more it around to find where the noise is.

[YotaNate]

Even tho the water pump isnt contacting the housing doesnt mean the bearing is good.  As a rule of thumb when I check water pumps I put it in a vise and really try wiggle to see if there is any free play at.  Tho even brand new oem ones do move a little its fairly easy to tell if its not right.  Also when pump is out of the truck and you free spin it, it should be ultra fluid.  Beyond all that the fan clutch wont make noises like.  Heck I am a little confused as why you havent (or I missed the post)pull all the belts off and started it to see the problem is there.  I just realized the sound your hearing could VERY well be the dust shield on the harmonic balancer rubbing against the oil pump.   I put a long enough steel pipe or extension to my ear and then more it around to find where the noise is.

Sound goes away completely with removal of small belt.  Only things that are turned by the small belt on my truck are, Water Pump, ALT, and Clutch fan.  I have allso had 3 water pumps in the truck in the same day.  My Toyota one, a known good one from my 86 Runner and a brand new cheapy from Addvance Auto.   

Nate

[crazykooter]

Sounds like you know what it is.  If you were close I would let ya try one of my spares. 

[Early]

so you've got the hilux and two runners right. i hate to suggest take a working truck and make it not work but you could swap alternators. make sure it has the same plug before you pull it. I agree this is worth a shot, especially if you have the availability of another yota.

Have you tried a different alternator yet?

[YotaNate]

OK well it's fixed!  And I learned something, the ALT for my 86 Runner will NOT   work in my 82 Pickup LOL.  The Alternator was still providing propper voltage however after pulling it it was apparent there was very slight play in the shaft.  I assume the rear bearing was going and that was allowing it to move around at operating RPM.  I secured the very last ALT for a 5 wire Voltage Regulator that Advance Auto had in the system!  It's in and the engine is nice and quiet now.  I'm not sure if the ALT i pulled off the truck is factory Toyota or not but I elected to keep it and pay the core charge in case it was.  I'd like to have it rebuilt and keep it as a spare.  Anyone know how to tell if it's Yota or a cheapy?  It has no markings of a brand anywhere on it that I can see.  

Thanks all!  

Nate

[crazykooter]

Ya know Nate its very easy to swap the 1st gens alt out for a 2nd gen alt which has the internal voltage regulate.  The main reason people do this is that a 2nd gen alt puts out 60 amp and a 1st gen puts out 45 I believe it is. Either or its a good jump and 2nd gen alts are all over the place. Just a thought for ya.

[YotaNate]

I know there are ways to swap it but I was on a very tight schedule!  It's my DD and I hate that I sometimes have to do things quickly.  We are looking at getting a newer Runner to DD so down the road it will get a few more upgrades but for now it's a dead reliable honest to God 20MPG DD for me!  And it's a Yota!

Nate

[crazykooter]

To swap over to second gen alt takes bout an hr or less.
Heres a tut on it.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=587456

[hilux-1983]

OK well it's fixed!  And I learned something, the ALT for my 86 Runner will NOT  work in my 82 Pickup LOL.  The Alternator was still providing propper voltage however after pulling it it was apparent there was very slight play in the shaft.  I assume the rear bearing was going and that was allowing it to move around at operating RPM.  I secured the very last ALT for a 5 wire Voltage Regulator that Advance Auto had in the system!   It's in and the engine is nice and quiet now.  I'm not sure if the ALT i pulled off the truck is factory Toyota or not but I elected to keep it and pay the core charge in case it was.  I'd like to have it rebuilt and keep it as a spare.  Anyone know how to tell if it's Yota or a cheapy?  It has no markings of a brand anywhere on it that I can see. 

Thanks all! 

Nate

Woo Hoo.....  I'm sure we are ALL happy for ya!! 

[kneedownnate]

If it's a toyota alt it should have ND stamped on the back of it, but that may only be on the newer models.  Post a pic.

[Early]

good to hear!!

[79coyotefrg]

If it's a toyota alt it should have ND stamped on the back of it, but that may only be on the newer models.  Post a pic.

i cant remember if my alt had the ND or not but i know the ones for the 4runner have the ND on them