Why are toyota drivers so bias against jeeps???

[Fearofrunner]

OK after talking with NOTATOY i realised that alot of us Toyota owners/wheelers bash alot on other brand of rigs, mainly jeep.
Now i don't want the reasons why jeeps suck cause everyone knows that they have uni-bodies and crappy axles and there 4-links are made of recycled pop tin haha JK but really, what makes us bash this particular brand of vehicle?

I'll start with my  about why I'm not a fan and maybe you guys can add what you think.

I've always been around Toyota's and Japanese made vehicles, wether it's atv's dirt bikes cars whatever.  That's the only thing the old man will ever buy again.  He's had nothing but bad experiences with chevy and has worked on plenty of fords and didn't care for them.  So of course if the old man likes em then your gonna follow in his foot steps right? especially when that's all you've been around when your a little kid.

Now that I'm older i've learned for myself why our Toyota's are such a great truck, the hell i put it through and the stories i hear and the things i see other guys put them through in person.  I know why i stand up for Toyota.

Now true i've never owned a jeep or any other domestic vehicle but i've worked on them and just by looking at how they are put together I'm not impressed.  Jeep has made a name for it's self from the willys and the old CJ's and it use to be that that was the and that that was the rig to have if your going to go off road. Now Toyota on the other hand was always know as the underpowered cheep commie truck to get for better gas milage and it hasn't been until recently they've gotten really big as far as great aftermarket suspension gears lockers etc.

Is our bias opinion maybe having to do with the fact that they where the underdog for so long and were making up by talking trash to heepers? Is it maybe because there are so many jeeps out there that we feel we have to prove ourselves by talking smack to them or to the guys that think they're all big and bad because they got a $40,000 dollar cummins that blows black soot while riding on 13" lift blocks with 36x14.50x20 bling bling? I don't really know the answer but in a way i feel like sticking up for something that never does me wrong and gets me up some insane and still gets me home after a hard days beating.

Anyways I'm done rambling on, please don't make this a jeep bashing thread cause we already know what they're like and there is plenty of pirate threads out there saying why jeeps are for chicks. Just a reason why we are bias please. 

[Sparkplug]

Everytime I went on a trial run for a jeep club, they wud bag on me, and make me run at the back, even tho would easily make it through. They were very conservative, didnt really know how to have fun. To uptight, way to slow, babied their trucks, just were lame. That ruined it for me. Plus I hate seeing xjs covered in mud from splashin in puddles. Toyota guys seem like their more into havin a good time. Thats what I think. And jeeps suck.

[KDXSR5]

I like my toy because it was cheap, came with solid axles front and rear, an EFI engine, and it was small. I didn't want a fullsize truck. I was going to buy an xj, but the toy was so much cheaper, and we have had nothing but bad experiences with jeeps and dodge vehicles in general. Same thing with fords, nothing but problems. The Chevys/GMCs we have owned had done us good, but those were all pre-1980 models, so they are not as relevent in this discussion (at least in my opinion). Now we have a crappy 91 ford f-150 that is always broken, a 96 oldsmobile station wagon that likes to spew coolant all the time, my truck (85 toy pickup), and my moms 01 Tundra, that never breaks. So I guess it is all about how we have gotten good reliability from toyotas, and not so much from other brands.

[Hammerhead]

Dude, I think you're puttin' way to much thought into this.  Brand rivalry goes on everywhere and is completely normal.  I spent 25 years racing motorcycles and it's the same over there.  "My Yamaha will kick your Hondas but" and so on...

Competition forces improvement.

Many of my wheelin' buds drive HEEPS, scouts and even (GASP) Nissans and we have a blast razzing each other about the brand of the rigs we drive.  

My ridin' buds have every brand of motorcycle known to man and we too like to give each other flack over it.  




What is this thread really about anyways, did you make N-A-T cry again?  

[KDXSR5]

 Brand rivalry goes on everywhere and is completely normal.  I spent 25 years racing motorcycles and it's the same over there.  "My Yamaha will kick your Hondas but" and so on...

Kawasaki, Yamaha, and KTM is where its at! anything besides Honda, and Suzuki, but especially Honda, I hate them.

[Hammerhead]

Kawasaki, Yamaha, and KTM is where its at! anything besides Honda, and Suzuki, but especially Honda, I hate them.

See what I mean!!!


Oh, and it's YAMAHA all the way!!!

[KDXSR5]

See what I mean!!!


Oh, and it's YAMAHA all the way!!!

Back to jeep "disliking"

[Fearofrunner]

Dude, I think you're puttin' way to much thought into this.  Brand rivalry goes on everywhere and is completely normal.  I spent 25 years racing motorcycles and it's the same over there.  "My Yamaha will kick your Hondas but" and so on...

Competition forces improvement.

Many of my wheelin' buds drive HEEPS, scouts and even (GASP) Nissans and we have a blast razzing each other about the brand of the rigs we drive.  

My ridin' buds have every brand of motorcycle known to man and we too like to give each other flack over it.  




What is this thread really about anyways, did you make N-A-T cry again?  

HAHA no he just brought up a good point, all the jeep guys i wheeled with never said anything about toyota but yet in my mind i was talking trash about haw there stuff was on the verge of falling apart and it did in some ways.  All my buddies that have toyota's love bashing jeeps and say how big of a piece of they are and i won't lie i join them. you are right though there is always going to be trash talking in everything but damn we are bad about hating jeeps...

[BLACKDOG]

talking happens everywhere.  I wheel with blingn XJ and FFC on a regular basis, and give them for driving a jeep and an amigo, respectively.  I even give FFC for driving fords, when I drive one myself!!   Likewise, they give me for driving a toy with a 3.0 .  for me, its all part of the fun.  I love the older jeeps, and would probably own one right now, except that those sheetmetal dashes aren't very forgiving on my knees   If its built well, its cool, if the driver is cool, awesome. 

Like hammerhead said, brand rivalry is everywhere, and is part of the fun.  You want to hear some toy bashing, go on a jeep run with 1 or two yotas, it won't stop!! 

Thats just the way it is.  As long as people put their differences aside and help each other out and work together when need be, no harm done

[Toymin8r]

It's usually caused by the arrogance of the Jeep owners.  They seem to think that a Jeep is the only vehicle that can be used off road.  I've been on photoshoots (Jeep guys call them wheeling events) where the Jeep guys don't want my truck in the pic.  Also, there are several truck clubs, Toyotas, Broncos, XTerras, Blazers, etc that basically allow any type of vehicle to be a member of but the Jeep Thing clubs will only allow Jeep owners to be a member of.

There is also a lot of "Buy American" chatter in the midwest where I live.  St. Louis is a big union city.  Heck I grew up in a buy american only household.  I got in to Toyotas after working at a Toyota Dealer about 20 years ago.  We (the employees) tore the heck out of some of those new trucks and they took everything we threw at them.  My father now owns a Sequioa and he thinks its the best vehicle he's ever owned.  Japanese vehicles gained in popularity in the 80's for really only one reason, they were making abetter product.

When you build a trail rig a Jeep can be just as capable as a Toyota it just costs twice as much to do it in a Jeep.  Every time I get into an argument with a Jeep guy about why I made it over an obstacle or something he'll say "well you got a lockers, or you have a longer wheelbase, etc."  I'll say "yeah but I still spent less than you did". 

[DTB]

THIS THREAD IS WERTHLESS WITHOUT PITCHURS

[Rocksurfer]

I've driven and owned a few different 4x4 vehicles from Samurai's to H1's and each one has different personalities when offroad. You have to take different lines in different rigs to get to the same point, it's just the nature of the beasts. What it comes down to is a few factors: size, weight, length, width, clearance, height, center of gravity and unsprung weight. Once you really look at these factors you can then determine how well a vehicle will do offroad with lets say a modest build up.

I'll use the 3 most common vehicles currently out there to demonstrate which vehicle is better:

Samurai: One of the shortest wb vehicles I've ever owned, but also one of the lightest and narrowest vehicles. I called mine a 4x4 quad on steroids. Don't let anyone tell you they are cheap to build, sure the parts are but to actually build one to be ready for almost any trail they will end up costing more to build than expected. If you leave it with with the stock axles you will mostly skinny through the tough obsticales, but start putting wider axles and you loose that advantage and start having to deal with the same angles that the wider vehicles do. I've tried climbing the same obstacle in my Sammi that I did in my Toyota and learned that they don't like those lines, but for getting through on their terms they will go anywhere. I started wheeling seriously in the early 90's but have always been around them and I have to say that if pushed beyond their capabilities a Sammi is the 1st to flop. Before they hit the trail I had seen a total of maybe 5 rollovers in total, since they've been out there I'm not surprised to see at least one Sammi flop a run. They are to short and to narrow. Most everyone that I know have either stretch them widened them or both to make them more stable. Most of these mods have been done with Toyota drive trains so they should have save a bunch of money and bought a Toyota.

Jeeps: There are a bunch of different Jeeps but I'll stick to the basics, the CJ platform. Why is it so popular? It's the original modern era military vehicle that's why. For the most part it was all there was anyways, if you wanted to go 4 wheeling. So for many years if you wheeled you were in a Jeep, this has definitely built their reputation for going offroad, about the only choice other than that was a Bronco. So for many years they built their reputation on this factor and is why they were and still are so domanate in this sport even though they have glaring faults. Unlike the Samurai they are wide, topheavy, and  lots more power. In stock trim these issues don't create much of an issue but when you start building one you will instantly realize that once you lift it even just 4 inches things change, you are now really topheavy. Throw in some lockers and you find that your axles cannot provide the strength to stay on the trail instead of repairing you rig on the trail. Everytime I took mine out it broke, everytime. Sure it was a CJ2a but still that was when they were the best at what they do, it was much lighter and the Dana 41 is just a narrower 44. Granted it has a built 3.8 and a Rockcrusher trans out of a Vette but I never pushed it offroad. It did feel more stable than my Sammi though. Back to just lifting a CJ why would you lift it only to have to drop the tcase to eliminate vibration, kinda defeats the purpose of lifting it in the 1st place, the driveshafts are so short it's ridiculous. The only way to cure this is to do a bodylift. They perform very well offroad but to get there you are going to pump lots of cash into it.

Toyota: Same thing as the Jeep lots of variety so again I'll go with what is popular. I have done many builds on these and have gone about it different ways but bang for your buck it is the easiest to build and maintain. Even if you have an IFS rig there are just a few things you need to do to create an awesome rig. Go ahead lift it 5 inches, no big deal, get some lockers and drop the gear ratio to 5.29's, throw on some 35 inch tires and guess what you are ready to wheel some of the toughest trails around. If you really want to get some crawler gears and you now can play with the big dawgs. Sure you can keep spending more on your rig but bang for the buck Toyota wins. Even out of the box a Toyota will go further than some built rigs, I have taken Toyota's in mostly stock configuration more places than even some with built rigs will go. I took my 86 4Runner with IFS anywhere my club went and the only things I did to it was lift it, lock it and ran 33 inch tires. Sure I know that the new crop of trails are much tougher and for someone to run these a few more mods would be required but those same mods are required of the other 4x4's out there, and most of that is armour.

So you asked why we bash Jeeps, actually I think it's the other way around. Jeep owners feel that their don't stink and ours does. Until recently if you were a Jeep owner you could belong to any club that was out there, but if you owned a Toyota you had to find a club that allowed other types of 4x4's to join. So now everytime a Toyota does something a Jeep either couldn't or had a hell of a time getting it done and the Toyota scampers right up we have to make sure the Jeep owners acknowledges this or is clearly made aware of this fact. Sure there are situations that the Jeep does better or the Samurai but pound for pound the Toyota is there, they were thought about when they designed them, stout axles that were stronger than what was needed to drive down the street so when you lock them they don't break unlike some (most) of the axles a Jeep comes with.

The reason Toyota owners tend to bash Jeep owners is we are just getting back at them from the beginning when there were so many more of them than us and we could only defend ourselves by out shinning the Jeeps on the trail. Now that we are much larger in number we can now stand up and go...

[unclejpl4x4]

2 many words

I started loving toys when i got my first celica  ( work at the dealer for a yr ) and then i wanted a truck so i got one

the end

[red]

personaly i dont care what somebody wheels so long as they're there to have fun. there are advantages and disadvantages to each and every vehicle and every brand. take my old 87 4runner and my current 79 k5 blazer for comparison. both cost similar to build up/maintain with the exception of needing an sas on the 4runner. both run good, are reliable, and extremely capable vehicles with not much to go wrong. similar wheelbase length and nearly identical aftermarket availability although the chevy does have a slightly larger aftermarket but it was accepted as an offroad vehicle before the toyota was. ask pat (fearofrunner) i've beaten the living hell out of both of them and what problems have i had from each?

4runner the exhaust kept breaking, only 1 hanger holding the system on. rear window, had to replace the switch to get it to work. lower radiator hose split and overheated the motor (guage never registerred), tranny bearings went bad, ubolts broke on the rear axle because of rust. smashed bumpers and a slightly leaking seal on the removeable top. starter, idler pully and belts.

k5 blazer (i'll add the 81 gmc repairs as well since i brought it on 1 trip up here and timewise would make both about equal) powersteering belt, parking brake cable, window track in the tailgate is rusted out, starter, horrible speakers, stuck seatbelt in the rear, worn out driver's seat, and a clutch. leak around the removeable top as well.

i prefer the k5 because its extremely easy for me to find parts, dirt cheap, reliable, and does everything i ask of it and then some. its also a heck of a lot easier to work on because of the room, downside is i cant pull the tranny or t-case without a jack because of the wieght wheras when i replaced the tranny in the 4runner i was able to do that without a jack. drives me nuts when i constantly hear that it cant go anywhere or do anything because its a chevy or because its a fullsize. theres only 1 trail i've been on that the blazer had no chance of fitting because of its width. give me a little hassle in fun if i break something or if your rig makes it over something that i didnt with both rigs similarly equipped that makes sense. just my

[Rocksurfer]

Size will become an issue with a fullsize but nothing my club hasn't dealt with, we had a K-5 in the club for years. It was very well built and would go everywhere, it was our workhorse on the snow runs.

[Fearofrunner]

I've driven and owned a few different 4x4 vehicles from Samurai's to H1's and each one has different personalities when offroad. You have to take different lines in different rigs to get to the same point, it's just the nature of the beasts. What it comes down to is a few factors: size, weight, length, width, clearance, height, center of gravity and unsprung weight. Once you really look at these factors you can then determine how well a vehicle will do offroad with lets say a modest build up.

I'll use the 3 most common vehicles currently out there to demonstrate which vehicle is better:

Samurai: One of the shortest wb vehicles I've ever owned, but also one of the lightest and narrowest vehicles. I called mine a 4x4 quad on steroids. Don't let anyone tell you they are cheap to build, sure the parts are but to actually build one to be ready for almost any trail they will end up costing more to build than expected. If you leave it with with the stock axles you will mostly skinny through the tough obsticales, but start putting wider axles and you loose that advantage and start having to deal with the same angles that the wider vehicles do. I've tried climbing the same obstacle in my Sammi that I did in my Toyota and learned that they don't like those lines, but for getting through on their terms they will go anywhere. I started wheeling seriously in the early 90's but have always been around them and I have to say that if pushed beyond their capabilities a Sammi is the 1st to flop. Before they hit the trail I had seen a total of maybe 5 rollovers in total, since they've been out there I'm not surprised to see at least one Sammi flop a run. They are to short and to narrow. Most everyone that I know have either stretch them widened them or both to make them more stable. Most of these mods have been done with Toyota drive trains so they should have save a bunch of money and bought a Toyota.

Jeeps: There are a bunch of different Jeeps but I'll stick to the basics, the CJ platform. Why is it so popular? It's the original modern era military vehicle that's why. For the most part it was all there was anyways, if you wanted to go 4 wheeling. So for many years if you wheeled you were in a Jeep, this has definitely built their reputation for going offroad, about the only choice other than that was a Bronco. So for many years they built their reputation on this factor and is why they were and still are so domanate in this sport even though they have glaring faults. Unlike the Samurai they are wide, topheavy, and  lots more power. In stock trim these issues don't create much of an issue but when you start building one you will instantly realize that once you lift it even just 4 inches things change, you are now really topheavy. Throw in some lockers and you find that your axles cannot provide the strength to stay on the trail instead of repairing you rig on the trail. Everytime I took mine out it broke, everytime. Sure it was a CJ2a but still that was when they were the best at what they do, it was much lighter and the Dana 41 is just a narrower 44. Granted it has a built 3.8 and a Rockcrusher trans out of a Vette but I never pushed it offroad. It did feel more stable than my Sammi though. Back to just lifting a CJ why would you lift it only to have to drop the tcase to eliminate vibration, kinda defeats the purpose of lifting it in the 1st place, the driveshafts are so short it's ridiculous. The only way to cure this is to do a bodylift. They perform very well offroad but to get there you are going to pump lots of cash into it.

Toyota: Same thing as the Jeep lots of variety so again I'll go with what is popular. I have done many builds on these and have gone about it different ways but bang for your buck it is the easiest to build and maintain. Even if you have an IFS rig there are just a few things you need to do to create an awesome rig. Go ahead lift it 5 inches, no big deal, get some lockers and drop the gear ratio to 5.29's, throw on some 35 inch tires and guess what you are ready to wheel some of the toughest trails around. If you really want to get some crawler gears and you now can play with the big dawgs. Sure you can keep spending more on your rig but bang for the buck Toyota wins. Even out of the box a Toyota will go further than some built rigs, I have taken Toyota's in mostly stock configuration more places than even some with built rigs will go. I took my 86 4Runner with IFS anywhere my club went and the only things I did to it was lift it, lock it and ran 33 inch tires. Sure I know that the new crop of trails are much tougher and for someone to run these a few more mods would be required but those same mods are required of the other 4x4's out there, and most of that is armour.

So you asked why we bash Jeeps, actually I think it's the other way around. Jeep owners feel that their don't stink and ours does. Until recently if you were a Jeep owner you could belong to any club that was out there, but if you owned a Toyota you had to find a club that allowed other types of 4x4's to join. So now everytime a Toyota does something a Jeep either couldn't or had a hell of a time getting it done and the Toyota scampers right up we have to make sure the Jeep owners acknowledges this or is clearly made aware of this fact. Sure there are situations that the Jeep does better or the Samurai but pound for pound the Toyota is there, they were thought about when they designed them, stout axles that were stronger than what was needed to drive down the street so when you lock them they don't break unlike some (most) of the axles a Jeep comes with.

The reason Toyota owners tend to bash Jeep owners is we are just getting back at them from the beginning when there were so many more of them than us and we could only defend ourselves by out shinning the Jeeps on the trail. Now that we are much larger in number we can now stand up and go...

Now that's how you answer a question right there!!!! Nice write man

[JanMarie13]

I will just add that Jeeps are the most uncomfortable vehicles I've ever ridden in or driven.  That's all I know. 

[Angler]

I had a yj that was built to the hilt but when It was all said and done the only thing left on it that was jeep was part of the tub and the 4.0L
I had a sticker on it that said "it was a jeep thing but all that broke" I bought a 84 toy for something to drive to work because the whole truck cost less than one of my 38 inch swampers on the jeep and one day the jeep was having issues before a trail ride and I took the truck out just for S&G and it was such a blast to wheel I sold the jeep i had been building of 3 years and am now modding the Yota, when I am done I will have 1/2 the money in the truck i feel it will be just or more capable and 90% of the parts will still be Toyota.
That is all

[Rocksurfer]

I figured I qualified to answer this question since I've owned and or wheeled just about everything out there worth putting on a trail and a few that should have never been there.

[Not A Toy]

personaly i dont care what somebody wheels so long as they're there to have fun. there are advantages and disadvantages to each and every vehicle and every brand. take my old 87 4runner and my current 79 k5 blazer for comparison. both cost similar to build up/maintain with the exception of needing an sas on the 4runner. both run good, are reliable, and extremely capable vehicles with not much to go wrong. similar wheelbase length and nearly identical aftermarket availability although the chevy does have a slightly larger aftermarket but it was accepted as an offroad vehicle before the toyota was. ask pat (fearofrunner) i've beaten the living hell out of both of them and what problems have i had from each?

4runner the exhaust kept breaking, only 1 hanger holding the system on. rear window, had to replace the switch to get it to work. lower radiator hose split and overheated the motor (guage never registerred), tranny bearings went bad, ubolts broke on the rear axle because of rust. smashed bumpers and a slightly leaking seal on the removeable top. starter, idler pully and belts.

k5 blazer (i'll add the 81 gmc repairs as well since i brought it on 1 trip up here and timewise would make both about equal) powersteering belt, parking brake cable, window track in the tailgate is rusted out, starter, horrible speakers, stuck seatbelt in the rear, worn out driver's seat, and a clutch. leak around the removeable top as well.

i prefer the k5 because its extremely easy for me to find parts, dirt cheap, reliable, and does everything i ask of it and then some. its also a heck of a lot easier to work on because of the room, downside is i cant pull the tranny or t-case without a jack because of the wieght wheras when i replaced the tranny in the 4runner i was able to do that without a jack. drives me nuts when i constantly hear that it cant go anywhere or do anything because its a chevy or because its a fullsize. theres only 1 trail i've been on that the blazer had no chance of fitting because of its width. give me a little hassle in fun if i break something or if your rig makes it over something that i didnt with both rigs similarly equipped that makes sense. just my

    I hassle you because your silly, people hassle me because I drive a Jeep.. Like Ive always said if its built well and reliable then its coo. I cant stand people that say that I hate all fords, I hate all hondas, there are things I would prefer to own over others but hey I will never sit here and say oh thats shitty.       

heres a quote for ya..    brokenredrocket looked at a jeep driving down the street and said something to the extent of piece of jeep.. I looked at him and said well at least its driving down the street.    he grenaded his gears..  I just cant see how something is because of what it is.  maybe I can see the fun positive things in all....   

[DTB]

not a toy is a jeep guy and he's cool.....why cant they all be like NAT? 

[Not A Toy]

thanks dtb          I agree with some of the posts on here, such as they are way cheaper to build and probably almost easier to build then my xj ( I know this from being around fearofrunner almost from start to finish) I sometimes wish I would have spent less money on a toy and built it but I like the 4-doors and my xj has a good strong reliable motor the HO I-6.  I think the only bashing on toys I can remember doing was sayin that you guys cant usually use your 5th gear because of lack of power but that was just a smartass comment.  I really dont care that people dont like my jeep cause its a jeep the main point of this was that patric (fearofrunner) said awhile back that jeep guys love to flame toys, well after being a member here for awhile and hanging around toy owners I can safely say that they are either as biased or more so then jeep owners IMO. Its really no big deal but I sure do get sick of hearing  "I hate jeeps" "jeeps suck". every vehicle has issues whether it be a 93 horsepower 4-speed or unibodies...

[red]

x2 peter

[DTB]

well after being a member here for awhile and hanging around toy owners I can safely say that they are either as biased or more so then jeep owners IMO. Its really no big deal but I sure do get sick of hearing  "I hate jeeps" "jeeps suck".

I totally agree with that! I am one of them!  Like someone else said, "We have to make up for years of being the underdog to Jeeps"

[Not A Toy]

I can see where you guys are coming from I guess, a underdog all these years and finally hardwork and very well designed vehicles have allowed you to be a prime player and alot of the old timers cant handle that...

[79coyotefrg]

at superlift  i hate following jeeps  cause they end up breaking and blocking the trail, then i have to turn around  and go the other way

[DTB]

at superlift  i hate following jeeps  cause they end up breaking and blocking the trail, then i have to turn around  and go the other way

We got held up on the trail last weekend by a group of Jeeps. What is normally a 15-20 minute drive to the trail turned into 45 minutes before we could turn off. There must have been 20 of them. EACH one stopped before the little ruts and mud puddle and would spend a few minutes deciding if their jeep could make it through. They were pulling winch cables out on the damn ROAD.....this is not even a trail.....its a ROAD to get to the trails.   We started honking after about 20 minutes of idiocity

[unclejpl4x4]

[DTB]

Our group really didnt think it was very funny

[JanMarie13]

Seriously what was he stuck on

Was it that bad when you went through it?  Maybe I'm not getting the full effect but I certainly don't see anything that would be a cause for WINCHING for the love of god