How many religions...(Discussion Moved to Christ Thread)

[blackdiamond]

More information on why we should keep the Ten Commandments and also why our works are important.  The format didn't paste well from microsoft word, sorry.

TEN COMMANDMENTS

The Principles of the Ten Commandments were known before the Sinai Event and the Law of God is also in the New Testament.  Note: From NKJV

1.             You shall have no other gods before Me.
   a. Genesis 35:1-4 "...put away the foreign gods that are among you..."
   b. Acts 14:11-15 "...and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God..."
   c. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 "...we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one..."
2.   You shall not make for yourself a carved image – any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.  For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of the who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
   a. Genesis 35:2-4 "...Put away the foreign gods that are among you..."
   b. 1 Corinthians 12:2 "You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led."
   c. 1 Corinthians 10:14 "Therefore my beloved, flee from idolatry."
   d. Acts 17:29 "...we ought not think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or tone, something shaped by art and man's devising."
   e. 1 John 5:21 "Little children, keep yourselves from idols.  Amen."
3.   You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
   a. Leviticus 18:3,21,24,27 "...nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord..."
   b. James 5:12 "But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath."
4.   Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.  Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.  In it you shall do no work; you, nor your son, nor your daughter servant, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.  For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.  Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
   a. Genesis 2:1-4 "...He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.  Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it..."
   b. Mark 2:27 "..the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath."
   c. Genesis 8:10,12 "And he waited yet another seven days..." – Noah was following a weekly cycle.
   d. Exodus 16:4, 22-23, 25-30 "...And the people shall go out and gather a certain quota every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not...And so it was, on the sixth day, that they gathered twice as much bread...This is what the Lord has said, Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord..." – God directed Israel to keep his Sabbath law prior to giving the 10 Commandments.
   e. Hebrews 4:9-11 "There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.  For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.  Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience."
5.   Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
   a. Genesis 9:22-25 "...But Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father.  Their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father's nakedness..."
   b. Ephesians 6:2 "Honor you father and mother which is the first commandment with promise..."
6.   You shall not murder.
   a. Genesis 4:8-11, 23-24 "...Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him...So now you are cursed..."
   b. Romans 13:9 "...you shall not murder..."
7.   You shall not commit adultery.
   a. Genesis 20:5-9 "But Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, 'Lord, will You slay a righteous nation also?'..."
   b. Genesis 38:24 "...'Tamar you daughter-in-law has played the harlot; furthermore she is with child by harlotry.'  So Judah said, 'Bring her out and let her be burned.'"
   c. Genesis 39:7-9 "And it came to pass after these things that his master's wife cast longing eyes on Joseph..."
   d. Romans 13:9 "...you shall not commit adultery..."
   e. James 2:11 "...do not commit adultery..." – quoting the 10 commandments
8.   You shall not steal.
   a. Genesis 31:19, 30, 32, 39 "...And Jacob stole away...why did you steal my gods?..."
   b. Genesis 44:8 "...How then could we steal silver from your lord's house?"
   c. Romans 13:9 "you shall not steal..."
9.   You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
   a. Genesis 39:7-20 "...Then she spoke to him with words like these saying, 'The Hebrew servant whom you brought to us came in to me to mock me..."
   b. Romans 13:9 "...you shall not bear false witness..."
10.   You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.
   a. Romans 13:9 "...you shall not covet..."

Notice that Romans 13:9 is directly quoting Exodus 20 (it also says that all are summed up as love your neighbor as yourself) and Romans 13:10 says, "Love does no hard to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."  It seems logical to imply from this verse that the first 4 commandments are summed up, not replaced, but love the Lord you God with all your heart, and keeping all of God's commandments is how we show that we love Him.

Keeping the law/commandments is important, James 2:18-24 says, "But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works."  Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works...Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the alter?  Do you see that faith was working together with his works and by works faith was made perfect?...You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only."  We are saved by faith alone, but our faith is perfected by keeping God's law.

[blackdiamond]

I just finished my study on death and resurrection.  I am planning to post it on the thread, it is about 25 pages so I would also be willing to email it for ease of study.  I won't post until you have a change to read, study and comment on the two covenants and the ten commandments.  If you can't tell I am in the process of testing my beliefs with the Word, I hope you are as well.

[crawlerdan]

well, i know that this is a little off topic, but i could use all your prayers, my wife of 20 months left me today. ive just kinda hit a wall emotionally, real hurt, ect... just dont know what to do... i could just really use some prayers. thanks yall

[blackdiamond]

well, i know that this is a little off topic, but i could use all your prayers, my wife of 20 months left me today. ive just kinda hit a wall emotionally, real hurt, ect... just dont know what to do... i could just really use some prayers. thanks yall

Consider yourself on the list.

[BLACKDOG]

well, i know that this is a little off topic, but i could use all your prayers, my wife of 20 months left me today. ive just kinda hit a wall emotionally, real hurt, ect... just dont know what to do... i could just really use some prayers. thanks yall

Sorry to hear it

Prayin for ya!!

[germ]

Absolutly, I'll keep you in my prayers. I hope it works out for you..

Erik

[BLACKWIDOW]

Dan,
Sorry to hear that. I thought you were having bad times based on one of your earlier posts.  My prayers are with you. It hurts and hurts bad, like there's no end. It helped me to visulize a wave when the pain hit and dive thru it. Always came out on the other side. Sound dorky but worked for me. Stay close with your friends and family. Hard now, but this too shall pass. Be well.

[crawlerdan]

Dan,
Sorry to hear that. I thought you were having bad times based on one of your earlier posts. My prayers are with you. It hurts and hurts bad, like there's no end. It helped me to visulize a wave when the pain hit and dive thru it. Always came out on the other side. Sound dorky but worked for me. Stay close with your friends and family. Hard now, but this too shall pass. Be well.

its just xtra hard now cause we just moved 400 miles from my family and freinds, 2 months ago, and with the accident last week, ect....just builds up ya know.... but ' THE lORD NEVER GIVES US MORE THAN WE CAN HANDLE",  im begining to question that but in the end , my faith will pull me through this also, as it has in the past. thanks for the support guys, it helps a little

[BLACKWIDOW]

Left friends and family and moved 2500 north to AK with the ex. Thank goodness for cell phones. Anyway made it thru after we didn't, and I am going home in Aug. It's tough...you are never given a load you can't carry...I believe that but there were some bleak moments. Day at a time, breath at a time. Prayers for you always.

[crawlerdan]

Left friends and family and moved 2500 north to AK with the ex. Thank goodness for cell phones. Anyway made it thru after we didn't, and I am going home in Aug. It's tough...you are never given a load you can't carry...I believe that but there were some bleak moments. Day at a time, breath at a time. Prayers for you always.

ya, thats good your goin back, i cant though, lots o burnt bridges and "i told you so's "waiten for me if i go

[BLACKWIDOW]

The value of family and friends is priceless. Bridges can be rebuilt and words forgotten. Sometimes you just gotta dally-up. Hope today is going better for you.

[germ]

I know sometimes it's hard to look on the bright side of things during this hard period.  But look at this as an opportunity to do what you want to do.  This could be the opportunity for you to move to an area that you really would like to live in, and also to get a new start on life.  Take this time to look at yourself and make any changes that you would like to make.  Remember that God loves you, and he will be with you as you struggle through this.  We will continue to pray for you.

I will keep you in my prayers, and if you need anything please let me know.

Erik

[crawlerdan]

I know sometimes it's hard to look on the bright side of things during this hard period.  But look at this as an opportunity to do what you want to do.  This could be the opportunity for you to move to an area that you really would like to live in, and also to get a new start on life.  Take this time to look at yourself and make any changes that you would like to make.  Remember that God loves you, and he will be with you as you struggle through this.  We will continue to pray for you.

I will keep you in my prayers, and if you need anything please let me know.

Erik

ya, i just made that move to so. oregon, i love it here, im gonna stay, and i do have alot more freedom now, but a huge void in my soul, and i also posess a huge hate of dating. im just going to put this in Gods hands and he will bring me what i need, i know why this happened, it was my fault, we where"unequally yolked' as God calls it, and he will not bless such a union, so now i have an oportunity to do things right.just need to find something to keep my mind of of it, like a sas, now if only i had the parts.....

[blackdiamond]

The family that prays together stays together.  I believe that God will add His blessing to a marriage that is "unequally yolked;" however, it is difficult for believers to make it work with unbelievers, or even members of different denominations.  It is really easy to keep beliefs separate/indivudual until it comes time to pass along the beliefs to children.  I think the biggest downside of being married to an unbeliever is that the moral conviction of staying married isn't always there.  I know several people that stayed with their wives (in one case she was into drugs and prostitution) until they left them because they didn't believe in divorce.  They were not happy, but I respected them for their commitment.

My adivise would be to not compromise your beliefs or morals, stick with what you believe and God will bless you.  Treat your wife/ex-wife with dignity and respect.  Take this time to build your relationship with God.  Lean on Him and He will direct your paths.

This may sound odd, but this might be a good time to study the book of Job since you can probably identify with him better now that normal.

[crawlerdan]

The family that prays together stays together. I believe that God will add His blessing to a marriage that is "unequally yolked;" however, it is difficult for believers to make it work with unbelievers, or even members of different denominations. It is really easy to keep beliefs separate/indivudual until it comes time to pass along the beliefs to children. I think the biggest downside of being married to an unbeliever is that the moral conviction of staying married isn't always there. I know several people that stayed with their wives (in one case she was into drugs and prostitution) until they left them because they didn't believe in divorce. They were not happy, but I respected them for their commitment.

My adivise would be to not compromise your beliefs or morals, stick with what you believe and God will bless you. Treat your wife/ex-wife with dignity and respect. Take this time to build your relationship with God. Lean on Him and He will direct your paths.

This may sound odd, but this might be a good time to study the book of Job since you can probably identify with him better now that normal.

she is a wiccan, which is hard for me to look at, but back to the discussion, who am i to judge? and as for my next significant other, ive spent life looking for women, and turned up with alot of bad ones abd divorced at 22, so, ill leave the next one to the Lord,his will not, mine, is where i will be happy.  yall are terrific guys, thanks for the support

[blackdiamond]

I don't know much about wiccan, but from what I do know it would be an interesting mix with a Christian.

God dropped the perfect girl into my life so you have nothing to worry about.  Here is the super duper short version of the story.  My wife and I attended the same college in Nebraska during our freshman and sophomore years.  We were not good friends at the time, I was actually good friends with her best friend.  I always thought that she would be a great girl, but she was never available when I was around.  I went to Washington and she went to Michigan and we didn't see or talk for almost 4 years.  A mutual friend of ours from Colorado got cancer and his mom sent out a update email to all of his friends across the country.  I noticed her name and sent he an email as a friendly "hello" and to see how she was doing, she was now finishing her PA degree in California.  We emailed for several months, ended up meeting at Disneyland because my aunt and uncle gave me a ticket to visit them for thanksgiving and we were engaged 5 weeks after disneyland.  We dated long distance for almost two years until she graduated and moved to Washington where I am working.  I am a small owner in Alaska Airlines, but I still don't get any discount tickets.  My airline ticket and phone bills (cell phone with after 9pm free was a blessing) got expensive.  The bottom line is that God has a plan for our lives and He will work it out for us if we trust Him.

[crawlerdan]

I don't know much about wiccan, but from what I do know it would be an interesting mix with a Christian.

God dropped the perfect girl into my life so you have nothing to worry about. Here is the super duper short version of the story. My wife and I attended the same college in Nebraska during our freshman and sophomore years. We were not good friends at the time, I was actually good friends with her best friend. I always thought that she would be a great girl, but she was never available when I was around. I went to Washington and she went to Michigan and we didn't see or talk for almost 4 years. A mutual friend of ours from Colorado got cancer and his mom sent out a update email to all of his friends across the country. I noticed her name and sent he an email as a friendly "hello" and to see how she was doing, she was now finishing her PA degree in California. We emailed for several months, ended up meeting at Disneyland because my aunt and uncle gave me a ticket to visit them for thanksgiving and we were engaged 5 weeks after disneyland. We dated long distance for almost two years until she graduated and moved to Washington where I am working. I am a small owner in Alaska Airlines, but I still don't get any discount tickets. My airline ticket and phone bills (cell phone with after 9pm free was a blessing) got expensive. The bottom line is that God has a plan for our lives and He will work it out for us if we trust Him.

well put, im lonley as hell, have been for a long time, but im judt gonna sit back on this one

[germ]

My experiences always been that when you stop looking God drops it into your lap... it's what you're looking that you can't find what you looking for.

A wise man once told me that any relationship based on need, or greed is doomed to failure.  Make sure that you're in a place where you don't need somebody else, so you can be completely available for your next relationship.  Don't worry, it just takes time, but you'll get there, and it'll be better that you could ever imagine.

Erik

[Oddmar]

I'm one of those Pagan types...not Wiccan but Norse Pagan, like the "Vikings" of Scandanavia. ("Viking" actually means "to go raiding over the sea", or "to go a'Viking")

While Wiccans believe in just Freyr and Freya, "The Lord" and "The Lady", Norse Pagans believe in Freya, Freyr, Baldur, Loki, Odinn, Heimdall, Tir, and Thor, amongst others.

We believe that if we die in "battle", we will be gathered by Valkyries from where we lay and taken to Asgard, the realm of the Gods, to Odinn's hall, Valhalla, where we will feast and spar with one another 'till Ragnarok, the final battle, where we shall fight by the side of the Gods.

Not wanting to start a fight here, but this religion actually predates Christ, only falling into obscurity because the Catholic church burned everything that wasn't "Right". The comman pagan european was so reluctant to let go of his belief's, traditions, and holidays, that the "Church" had to incorporate many pagan things into daily life. Monday---moon day, Tuesday---Tir's day, Wensday---Wodan's day "Odinn's day", Thursday---Thor's day, Friday---Freya's day. Easter is a pagan fertility holiday.

Needless to say, I'm not really happy with all the  :bull crap: that has been crammed down my throat all my life by pro-Christ society....i guess the old saying is true, "History is written by the winning side".

P.S. Sorry to hear about your troubles, CrawlerDan

[blackdiamond]

Interesting post oddmar,

I completely agree that the Catholic church did incorporate many pagan things into their belief system in an attempt to join all people into one church, history proves this to be true.  As an example, many of the statues in the vatican are old pagan idols, the statue of St. Peter is one (can't remember what it was before), sun wheels, etc...  Part of this shift was changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday as well.

Obviously proving or disproving either of our religions would be difficult, but the Christian church was persecuted and there was an attempt to burn all religious writing (and people), but God didn't allow it to happen.  Shouldn't your god or gods be able to keep man from destroying their writing/teachings?

Do you go to any type of church/meetings?  What happens after the final battle (I'm assuming between good and evil like many belief systems)?

[germ]

Norse Pagan, like the "Vikings" of Scandanavia. ("Viking" actually means "to go raiding over the sea", or "to go a'Viking")

Interesting that you bring this up. I'm actually Norweigan, and have heritage that goes back to the Vikings. Their culture is extremly interesting, although I must admit my knowlege of their religious beliefs is lacking. I've been to Norway many times, andhave gone to the museums and such where they have displayed many of the religous artifacts from their time. The old Stave churches are works of art in themselves.

Not wanting to start a fight here, but this religion actually predates Christ, only falling into obscurity because the Catholic church burned everything that wasn't "Right". The comman pagan european was so reluctant to let go of his belief's, traditions, and holidays, that the "Church" had to incorporate many pagan things into daily life. Monday---moon day, Tuesday---Tir's day, Wensday---Wodan's day "Odinn's day", Thursday---Thor's day, Friday---Freya's day. Easter is a pagan fertility holiday

Your absolutly correct. There are many Pagen traditions and holiday's/celebrations that were incorporated into daily society to help bring the pagans and to the current religion.  There are many examples of this, and you have already shown the most common.  Unfortunately, many people do not know this.  And so believe that they are an original part of the church, and are inspired by God.  I think this may be what Synwars was referring to what he was discussing Jehovah's Witnesses, but unfortunately the thread shifted, and we never got to that discussion. (PS Synwars: if you're still following this thread, I'd love to hear more about that.)

I'd be interested to hear more about the Viking religion.  If you could share some more information about it that would be wonderful.  I'd appreciate it.

Erik

[blackdiamond]

Salvation - part 1 of 3

The Great Controversy:

Scripture portrays a cosmic battle between good and evil, God and Satan.  Understanding this controversy, which involves the entire universe, helps answer the question, "Why did Jesus come to this planet?"

The conflict between good and evil began in heaven.  How could sin possibly originate in a perfect environment?

Angels, beings of a higher order than humans, were created to enjoy intimate fellowship with God.  Of superior strength, and obedient to God's Word, they function as servants or "ministering spirits".  Though generally invisible, at times they appear in human form.  It was through one of these angelic beings that sin was introduced to the universe.

Psalms 8:5 "For You have made him a little lower than than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor."  NKJV

Revelation 1:1-2 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him to show His servants - things which must shortly take place.  And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all the things that he saw."  NKJV

Revelation 3:5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."  NKJV

Psalms 103:20-21 "Bless the Lord, you His angels, Who excel in strength, who do His word, Heeding the voice of His word.  Bless the Lord, all you His hosts, You ministers of His, who do His pleasure."  NKJV

Hebrews 1:14 "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?"  NKJV

Hebrews 13:2 "Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have entertained angels."  NKJV

Using the kings of Tyre and Babylon as figurative descriptions for Lucifer (Satan), Scripture illuminates how this cosmic controversy began.

Isaiah 14:12-15 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!  How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!  For you have said in your heart: 'I will exalt my throne above the starts of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'  Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit."  NKJV

Ezekiel 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord God: You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty..."  NKJV

Ezekiel 28:14-17 "'...You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.  You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.  By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones."  Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before the kings, That they might gaze at you."  NKJV

The root of sin can be traced to Lucifer's pride.  Lucifer refused to be content with the exalted position his Creator had given him.  In his selfishness he coveted equality with God Himself.  He grasped for God's authority but not His love.  Lucifer's rebellion against God's authority was the first step in his transformation into Satan, "the adversary."

[blackdiamond]

Lucifer's actions blinded many of the angels to God's love.  The resulting discontent and disloyalty to God's authority grew until one third of the angelic host joined him in rebellion.  The tranquility of God's kingdom was shattered and war broke out in heaven.

Revelation 12:4 "His tail drew a third of the starts of heaven and threw them to the earth.  And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born."  NKJV

Revelation 12:7-9 "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but the did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.  So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."  NKJV

Upon his expulsion from heaven, Satan spread his rebellion to our earth by telling Adam and Eve that they could be like God.

Genesis 3:5 "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."  NKJV

In believing the serpent's word over that of their Creator they betrayed their trust in and loyalty to God.  Tragically, the seeds of the controversy that had begun in heaven took root in Planet Earth (Genesis 3).  In seducing our first parents to sin, Satan wrested from them their dominion over the earth.  Now claiming to be the "prince of this world," Satan challenged God, His authority, and the peace of the whole universe from his new headquarters, Planet Earth.

The effects of the struggle between Christ and Satan soon became apparent as the sin distorted the image of God in humanity.  Though God offered His covenant of grace to the human race through Adam and Eve, their first child, Cain, murdered his brother.  Wickedness continued to multiply until in sorrow God had to say of man "that ever intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise you head, And you shall bruise His heel."  NKJV

Genesis 4:8 "Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him."  NKJV

Genesis 6:5 "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."  NKJV

God used the flood to cleanse the world of its unrepentant inhabitants and give the human race a new start.  But before long the descendants of faithful Noah departed from God's covenant.  Although God had promised never to destroy the entire earth with a flood again, they blatantly showed their distrust by erecting the tower of Babel in an attempt to reach heaven and as a result have an escape from any future flood.  This time God quashed man's rebellion by confounding his universal language.

Genesis 7:17-20 "Now the flood was on the earth forty days.  The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth.  The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters.  And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered.  The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered."  NKJV

Genesis 9:1 "So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: 'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.'"  NKJV

Genesis 9:11 "Thus I establish my first covenant (promise) with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth."  NKJV

Genesis 11:1 "Now the whole earth had one language and one speech."  NKJV

Genesis 11:7 "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."  NKJV

Sometime later, with the world in near total apostasy, God extended his covenant to Abraham.  Through Abraham, God planned to bless all nations of the world.  However, the successive generations proved faithless to God's gracious covenant.  Entrapped in sin, they aided Satan in achieving his objective in the great controversy by crucifying the Author and Surety of the covenant, Jesus Christ.

Genesis 12:1-3 "Now the Lord had said to Abram: 'Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.  I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.  I will bless those who bless you, I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.'"  NKJV

[blackdiamond]

The account in the book of Job of a cosmic convocation involving representatives from various parts of the universe gives additional insight into the great controversy.

Job 1:6-7 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.  And the Lord said to Satan, 'From where do you come?'"  NKJV

Job 2:1-7 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.  And the Lord said to Satan, 'From where do you come?'"  NKJV

Job 1:-10 "Then the Lord said to Satan, 'Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like hi on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?'  So Satan answered the Lord and said, 'Does Job fear God for nothing?  Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side?  You have blessed the works of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.  But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!'"  NKJV

The cosmic perspective the book of Job affords provids powerful proof of the great controversy between Christ and Satan.  This planet is the stage on which this dramatic struggle between right and wrong is being played out.

1 Corinthians 4:9 "For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men." NKJV

Sin severed the relationship betwen God and man, and "whatever is not from faith is sin."  The breaking of God's commandments, or laws, is the immediate result of a lack of faith, the evidence of a ruptured relationship.  In turn, by the plan of salvation God intends to restore the trust in the Creator that leads to a loving relationship manifested by obedience.

Romans 14:23 "But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin."  NKJV

John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments."  NKJV

In our lawless age absolutes are neutralized, dishonesty is praised, bribery is a way of life, adultery is rampant, and agreements, both international and personal, lie shattered.  It is out privilege to look beyond our desperate world to a caring, omnipotent God.  This larger view reveals to us the importance of our Saviour's atonement, which is bringing this universal controversy to an end.

What is the pivotal issue in this life and death struggle?  God's moral law is just as essential to the existence of His universe as are the physical laws that hold it together and keep it functioning.  Sin is the transgression of God's law or lawlessness.  The Greek word "anomia" indicates that lawlessness issues from a rejection of God and His authority.

1 John 3:4 "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness."  NKJV

Rather than admitting responsibility for the lawlessness in the world, Satan lays the blame on God.  Through this constant undermining of the law, Satan attempts to overthrow God and His authority.

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The temptations Christ faced during His earthy ministry revealed the seriousness of the controversy over obedience and surrender to God's will.  Christ was tempted directly by Satan himself.  As Satan had tempted Eve to doubt God's word in Eden, so now he tried to cause Christ to doubt the validity of what God had said at His baptism.  Had Christ taken matters into His own hands, creating bread out of stones to prove His divine sonship, He would have, like Eve, revealed a lack of trust in God.  His mission would have ended in failure.

Hebrews 2:17-18 "Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.  For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted."  NKJV

Matthew 4:3 "Now when the tempter cam to Him, he said, 'If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."  NKJV

Matthew 3:17 "And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'"  NKJV

Notice that Jesus was tempted by Satan right after His baptism, testing his faith in His Father.  Christ's highest priority was to live by His Father's word.

Matthew 4:4 "But He answered and said, 'It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"  NKJV

Matther 4:9 "And he said to Him, 'All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.'  Then Jesus said to him, 'Away with you, Satan!  For it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"  NKJV

Notice that Satan tempted Jesus on two main points: (1) His faith in His Father and (2) worship of God.

This cosmic controversy come into its clearest focus at Calvary.  Satan intensified his efforts to abort Jesus' mission as the time approached for its close.  Satan was especially successful in using the religious leaders of the time, whose jealousy over Christ's popularity caused such trouble that He had to end His public ministry.  This is strikingly similar to what happened in heaven with Lucifer.

John 11:47-48 "Then the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and said, 'What shall we do? For this Man works many signs.  If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.'"  NKJV

In absolute obedience to His Father's will, Jesus remained faithful until death (first death).  The benefits of both Christ's life and His death reach beyond the limited world of the human race.  The cosmic controversy came to its climax at the cross.  The love and faithful obedience Christ demonstrated there in the face of Satan's cruelty undermined Prince Satan's position, assuring his ultimate downfall.

John 12:31 "Now is the judgment of the world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out."  NKJV

John 16:11 "...of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged."  NKJV

Today the great controversy raging furiously around Christ's authority involves not only His law, but His word - the Scriptures.  Approaches to the interpretation of the Bible have been developed that allow little or no room for divine revelation.  Scripture is treated as if it were no different from any other ancient document and analyzed with the same methodology.  Consequently, the Biblical view of the person Jesus Christ, His nature, virgin birth, miracles, and resurrection are widely debated.

Most of Christ's contemporaries considered Him as a mere man, but the disciples knew that He was the Son of the living God.

Matthew 16:13-14 "When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked his disciples, saying, 'Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?'  So they said, 'Some say John the Baptist some Elijah and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.'  He said to them, 'But who do you say that I am?' Simon Peter answered and said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.'"  NKJV

Today everyone faces the same question.  One's answer to this life-and-death question depends on one's faith in the testimony of God's Word.

Christ is the focus of the Scriptures.  God invites us to comprehend the truth as it is in Jesus, for He is the truth, but one of Satan's strategies in the cosmic conflict is to convince people that they can understand truth apart from Jesus.

Ephesians 4:21 "...if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus..."  NKJV

John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through Me.'"  NKJV

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Several centers of truth have bee proposed, either individually or in combination: (1) man, (2) nature, or the observable universe, (3) Scriptures, and (4) the church.  While these all have their part in revealing truth, Scripture presents Christ as the Creator of each of the above, and transcending each.  By substituting some other center than Christ in the church's doctrines, Satan achieves his goal of directing attention away from the One who is the only hope of humanity.

The cosmic view unveils Satan's attempt to remove Christ from His rightful place, both in the universe and in truth.  Theology, by definition a study of God and His relationship with His creatures, must unfold all doctrines in the light of Christ.  The mandate of Christian theology is to inspire confidence in the authority of the Word of God and to replace all other suggested centers of truth with Christ.  God can use theology as an effective instrument for aiding humanity in opposing Satan's efforts on earth.

The doctrine of the great controversy reveals the tremendous battle that affects ever person born in the world - that, in fact, touches every corner of the universe.

Ephesians 6:12 "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."  NKJV

An understanding of this doctrine convicts one of the need to combat evil.  Success is only possible through dependence on Jesus Christ.  We are directed to watch for evil.

Ephesians 6:13-18 "...praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints -"  NKJV

Psalms 24:8 "Who is this King of glory?  The Lord strong and mighty, The Lord mighty in battle (against evil)."  NKJV

Romans 8:37-39 "Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."  NKJV

Evil did not originate with God.  He is not to blame for the world's misery.  Satan, a fallen angel, is responsible for cruelty and suffering.  The cross testifies to both the destructiveness of sin and the depths of God's love for sinners.  Thus the great controversy theme teaches us to hate sin and to love the sinner.

Hebrews 1:9 "You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more that Your companions."  NKJV

Upon His return to heaven, Christ did not leave His people orphans.  In great compassion He provided us with every possible aid in the battle against evil.  The Holy Spirit was commissioned to "fill in" for Christ to be our constant companion until Christ would return.  The angels were also commissioned to be involved in His saving works.  Our victory is assured.  We can have hope and courage as we face the future, because our Master is in control.

Hebrews 1:14 "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?"  NKJV

The salvation of humanity was at stake in Christ's ministry and death for He came to give His life for the remission of our sins.  In doing so He vindicated His Father's character, law and authority against which Satan has rebelled.  Christ revealed that through total dependence on God's power and grace repentant believers could rise above the harassments and frustrations of daily temptations and live victorious over sin.

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Sorry for any typos, I typed it up in word pad since my wife hasn't load Word on her computer since her last reformat and it is too late to do it on the board.  I think it should be readable as it.  Enjoy!  I will be working on parts 2 and 3 soon.

I just ran spell check on my Word file and realized how many times I type the as teh so I took the time to spell check these posts.  It was obvious that I was typing at midnight.

[Scott39]

I`am not religous, I follow the word of GOD and JESUS, man made religions, not GOD.
Denominations were created by man, not GOD, so they are bad.
If I was to classify myself to a denomination, it would be Baptist.

[toybuilt]

I think that I'm going to start going back to church since one of my best friends just past away on Saturday from a motorcycle accident. It really got me sturd up, he was only 23.

[Oddmar]

How many religions are represented on this board?
I believe you'se guys have gotten just a little 

The thread was " How many religions are represented on this board?"

Now i just can't get through my daily life without listening to some yummy discussion about JESUS CHRIST!!! or reading post after post of excerpts from a book that i have always reccomended to my friends as good for nice thin paper to roll cigarettes with.

Erik, i'd recomend "A Book of Troth" by Edred Thorsson, ISBN 0-87542-777-4