Topic: The wait is over! Now need to install.

[Hickory Nut]

So I ordered a new motor from 22RE Performance - Stage 2 Plus with all the bells and whistles. I called a local shop in Jackson, MS and was quoted $2500 for the install! I almost fell out of my truck going down the highway. Needless to say I need some options. I don't mind paying someone to do it but I don't want to get taken advantage of either. Any input would be great.

[kneedownnate]

Buy a roll of masking tape, a black sharpee, a note book and a cherry picker.  Label all connectors, take notes and pics if you need, and swap it yourself.  Super easy to do in a very short time

[Toybrota]

That's to much for someone to do it! Just label everything, Lots of pictures, and you'll be fine.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Gnarly4X]

So I ordered a new motor from 22RE Performance - Stage 2 Plus with all the bells and whistles. I called a local shop in Jackson, MS and was quoted $2500 for the install! I almost fell out of my truck going down the highway. Needless to say I need some options. I don't mind paying someone to do it but I don't want to get taken advantage of either. Any input would be great.

What year is your vehicle that you are swapping engines?

How many miles on the truck and old engine?

Is it going to be your daily driver or 4-wheel machine?

Gnarls.

[emsvitil]

You could buy your own cherry picker and still save money

(don't forget to use the 20% off harbor freight coupon.....)

[Hickory Nut [OP]]

It's a Red 1985 4x4 SR5 Extended Cab with a 22RE. The truck has 285K on the dash but I am sure its not the original motor. The current motor leaks oil big time and I can't pinpoint where its coming from. I want a reliable weekend use truck for hunting/fishing trips. I purchased the pickup in 2015 off craigslist so I do not know the history of current motor. 

[Hickory Nut [OP]]

Here is a picture of the Truck with the Engine in the wrong end.

[emsvitil]

Could be original.......

22R's last forever.     I have 174k on mine so far,   195psi compression <2% leakdown.    Although it's about 1500 miles per quart....

[Snowtoy]

If the rest of the truck is as clean as the bed is, it is likely the original engine, even when abused the 22r short block is good for 300k or more.

Given the work that has to be be done, $2500 is likely a fair estimate, a few more calls will tell you if that is the going rate or not.

The engine swap would be fairy straight forward, basic metric socket/wrench set with two torque wrenches, engine stand( or 2 for side by side disassembly/assembly) and cherry picker.  The factory service manual will pretty much walk you through it step by step, so it really depends on how mechanically inclined/confident you are, and your desire to tackle the project yourself.  If you want to see the work involved, there is a downloadable factory service manual for your '85 here,
http://4x4wire.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/856665/85,_93,_et._al._Toy_FSM's__~Re.html#Post856665


The majority of the work involved would be under the Engine mechanical section for the Cylinder head removal/installation portion starting on page EM 13, just without the actual removal of the cylinder head.

[Gnarly4X]

Hey Hickory Nut,

Congrats on getting a nice long block for your truck!

My limited personal hands-on experience over the past 40+ years I’ve been around engines is a somewhat different and I seem to find that saying it or reading about it, is many times way different than actually DOING it….

Just to share another perspective....

Obviously, the range of abilities an individual may have to work with typical tools, equipment, and resources and all the aspects that go along with simple hands-on engine rebuild or a swap - including just basic maintenance skills - can be from zero knowledge to absolute genius.  And, in the top percentage of highly skilled mechanics, even top-rated engine builders - pick any automotive sport - there will differences of opinion and depth of knowledge.

Perhaps for some people they have the necessary knowledge skills, tools, time, money, and space to “Buy a roll of masking tape, a black sharpee, a note book and a cherry picker.  Label all connectors, take notes and pics ….and it will be “Super easy to do in a very short time”… my hats off to those who can do that!

This is nothing you don’t already know…. Deciding to do it yourself or paying someone to do it is an important decision.  You have just bought a really nice long block, arguably from one of the most reputable Toyota 22R/RE engine builders in the country.  From this point forward the ultimate success of your swap is up to you and whoever touches your truck and engines.

Before I decided to rebuild mine, I did a good amount of research *I should have done MORE* on local repair shops, machine shops, and parts sources. I also spent 25 to 30 hours on the web looking at sites who sell remanufactured short blocks, long blocks, turn-key, and used engines, and several of the popular Toyota forums.  I also looked at buying a healthy vehicle and pulling the engine.

Finding shop/mechanic that you absolutely trust and knows what they’re doing, has experience with a 22RE, has pride in their work, and will charge a fair price for a limited budget, is more than a small challenge in my experience.

When you start working on 30+ year old truck, you may, like me, find parts that are broken, will break, or rusted and are unavailable for replacement.  Even though I took lots of care when disassembling my engine, I still ended up with broken connectors and wires, parts that were rusted beyond use, some that are not available.  One part I had to actually fabricate and I had to drill and tap for rusted area on my frame.  The source of parts is also very important since there appears to be lots of poor quality foreign aftermarket parts.

I believe I have a fairly well-equipped garage, at least average DIYer automotive mechanical skills, and I still found myself scratching my head at times – as my rebuild thread indicates.

Not to pick on kneedownnate, as he appears to be a very confident, knowledgeable and experienced person…. “Buy a roll of masking tape, a black sharpee, a note book and a cherry picker.  Label all connectors, take notes and pics ….and it will be “Super easy to do in a very short time”… is an audacious, highly presumptuous, Pollyanna statement.

Of course I may be unclear on what his definition is of "Super easy" and "very short time"?

Why would a shop quote $2,500 to uninstall a used 22RE and re-install a fresh 22RE long block?

Why does it cost $3,000 and 24 weeks to buy a Stage 2 22RE Long Block from 22RE Performance?

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless.

Gnarls.

[Cheesemaker]

I swapped my motor out, and I had no prior experience at it.  And I would do it again in a heartbeat. 


-Like the others have said, get a cherry picker (they are more useful than just for engines) and a engine stand is useful, but not needed. 
-Take pictures, spray penetrating lube on EVERY nut and bolt.  Watch out for the ones that go into aluminum.  When installing, don't be afraid of Never Seize, it will be a life changer down the road.  I would order all new intake bolts, exhaust studs, and all the little cooling line bolts from 22REPerformance.  30+ year old bolts tend to stretch, and break, causing a bigger headache. 
-Buy a FSM, or if you can get the download, do it!! 
-Label and pictures. 
-It boils down to its rather easy, as long as you take your time, and pay attention.  While you are in there, get all new hoses, and clamps.  Cheap insurance.
-And if you have any buddies that have any mechanical abilities, bribe them with beer and pizza.
-6mm allen socket for the bolt that goes into the head from the lower intake, thru the t-stat housing.  Hard to see, but it will get your attention.   
-Those little picks, like dental picks, for the springs that hold the sensor/injector connectors together.
-Get a new Marlin clutch and machine the flywheel to 0.026" step while its out. 
-Torque wrench
-Gear wrenches for bell housing bolts!  Trust me. 



The only issues I had, was separating the motor from the bell housing, and sliding the input shaft into the clutch/pilot bearing. 

And we are all here if you have any questions or help!!  We all started out the same way.  And willing to help give you info or tips as you go along.  Go to the "Engine" or "Project Build up" pages on here for info too.   Do it yourself, and the rest of the $2500, minus parts/hoses/bolts and such, you could buy 4.7 gears or duals for the truck.  The only thing I had a mechanic do, was look it over, and do the initial start up and break in for me.  I would have hated to ruined a new motor.  But today, I would start a new one myself. 

[Hickory Nut [OP]]

Thanks for the comments guys.

[Toybrota]

Makes me more confident for when I finish mine, great work! Throw up some pictures of the new motor in the truck?

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[redneckcustoms13]

Nate and I share the same opinion on this. The 1st 22re I swapped took me about 2 evenings to do. That was over 10 years and many trucks ago. The last 22r I swapped (your engine just less electrical connectors) took 2 evenings but only about 2-3 hours per evening to get done. That is in a driveway. If you have any desire to do it yourself listen to these guys above. Go drop a little bit at harbor freight. Bag and tag all your bolts so you remember where they go. Label your plugs so you can remember them. It's a rather simple swap. I don't say that as a mechanic that works on things every day. I say that as just another random guy on the Internet you'll probably never meet, but has done this swap more than a handful of times. Save yourself some coins, gain some experience and knowledge of how your vehicle works. No one can ever take that from you.

[Cheesemaker]

I love the fact that you can stand back and say, "I did that!"  And its a great boost to your self esteem.  Too many guys today are buying built crawlers, and when they break down, they are clueless to how to fix it. 

I just got my headgasket job done 100% today, and I went over to a friends house, and he is more excited that I did it, than I am.  Because he doesn't have the patience to take on a task as I did.  But honestly, if it were a newer motor, I wouldn't have.  But really, the 22r motors are stupid easy. 

[kneedownnate]

From my neighbor watching out the kitchen window as I swapped my first engine; "I looked out the window and saw you taking off the hood, then as I finished washing the dishes I saw the engine in the air!"  Granted, that was an earlier carb truck, but it was my first and was quite easy.  2 best things you can have, maybe after a cherry picker (so 3 best things, then?) are a clear head and confidence.

And I know it's a little different, but at my last job we were expected to have a full engine swap done in about 45 minutes, and that is hooked up and running.  I remember fighting one my last year and being irritated that it took me a lot longer than normal, only to find out that I'd barely broken 30 minutes.  Even less fun with a half-pissed and half-drunk customer standing over you critiquing your every move and blaming you cause their vacation was ruined 

[Hickory Nut [OP]]

I am going to tackle the swap with the help of a friend that has a shop and some mechanical skills. I totally agree with you guys about getting more experience with the truck. I do appreciate all the responses and words of encouragement.

[Gnarly4X]

I am going to tackle the swap with the help of a friend that has a shop and some mechanical skills. I totally agree with you guys about getting more experience with the truck. I do appreciate all the responses and words of encouragement.

Hey Hickory Nut,

I'm happy to see that you are going for the DIYer approach, and that you've got some help from a friend with a shop and mechanical skills.  Are you going to do the swap in your friend's shop, and can we assume he's got the "swap" tools?

It would be VERY interesting if you could keep log on your time and progress from the time (hours) you start acquiring all the other parts you will need to complete the rebuild, to the time you drop your new engine into the engine bay, re-install the transmission, drive shafts, re-connect all wires, hoses, and sensors, then when you actually fire the engine. 

And then share your report and progress. 

Best of luck!

Gnarls.

[Cavu2usf]

Hickory Nut,

I was lucky. Had a neighbor who brought this over to me.




I removed the Cylinder Head cuz I was impatient to see the damage.


And do what the other guys said about labeling all hoses first before disconnecting. See what I mean? 


If a 65-year old cripple like me can do it myself, I'll bet you can do this swap just as well, and probably better! 

Steve

[Gnarly4X]

.....
And I know it's a little different, but at my last job we were expected to have a full engine swap done in about 45 minutes, and that is hooked up and running. ..

Way too much Bravo Sierra in morning!!

Sorry, kneedownnate,  unless you were swapping a pre-built Briggs & Stratton lawn mower engine on a push lawn mower, I gotta see you swap ANY car engine by yourself in 45 minutes!!!....unless, and maybe, you are really Clark Kent!!

Gnarls.

[H8PVMNT]

I had a buddy that could do a carb 22r in 2 hours. He ran webers with 2 vac lines. This guy also fly-cut his pistons with an angle grinder once .  I'm too picky to work that fast myself.

[Toybrota]

Again, great work. Love seeing pics of sparkling new engines.

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[Mudder]

Way too much Bravo Sierra in morning!!

Sorry, kneedownnate,  unless you were swapping a pre-built Briggs & Stratton lawn mower engine on a push lawn mower, I gotta see you swap ANY car engine by yourself in 45 minutes!!!....unless, and maybe, you are really Clark Kent!!

Gnarls.

Sorry Gnarls, not everyone is like you and takes 8 mo the to install an engine. Someone who does this for a lIvinghoe can do it in that short amount of time.

[Gnarly4X]

.... Someone who does this for a lIvinghoe can do it in that short amount of time.

OH male cow feces!!!!.....  ANFW!!! 

Are we taking about a lawn mower engine or a 1985 Toyota truck with a 22RE engine that has "285K, that leaks oil big time"?

Let's define "do it", and "swap" and "rebuild", and "that short of time", and "someone who does it for a living"?? 

I know two guys that not only "do it for a living", but build race engines and rigs for some of the most challenging off-road competition races on the plant.  My long time friend's shop has everything but an engine dyno and engine machining equipment.  He's been wrenching for over 30 years, builds race cars, can fabricate practically anything, and has done more engine rebuilds, swaps, complete engine and drive train conversions than he can count.  If I drove my truck over to his shop, my engine bay completely degreased and power washed clean, with a freshly built 22RE Performance 22RE Stage 2 Long Block engine sitting in the bed of my truck.  It would take him 10 to 12 hours, working alone, no major issues - before he could fire the new engine.  Just to prep the old engine before connecting it to his hoist, he would spend about 3 hours. 

But... I believe in miracles and some things that at first seemed impossible have been done.

Gnarls. 

[kneedownnate]

Way too much Bravo Sierra in morning!!

Sorry, kneedownnate,  unless you were swapping a pre-built Briggs & Stratton lawn mower engine on a push lawn mower, I gotta see you swap ANY car engine by yourself in 45 minutes!!!....unless, and maybe, you are really Clark Kent!!

Gnarls.

Sorry, but I don't need your approval and couldn't care less if you believe me.  And it's on you if you assumed I was changing a car engine.  I have said in the past what I did for a living, and yes, engine swaps were quick and easy.  Maybe you swap engines like you type?

So let's not bring any more negativity to this thread where we are trying to encourage this dude to step out of his bubble and try something new and educational.

[Gnarly4X]

Sorry, but I don't need your approval and couldn't care less if you believe me.  And it's on you if you assumed I was changing a car engine.  I have said in the past what I did for a living, and yes, engine swaps were quick and easy.  Maybe you swap engines like you type?

So let's not bring any more negativity to this thread where we are trying to encourage this dude to step out of his bubble and try something new and educational.

Hey kneedownnate,

My old brain cells work a little different than yours.

First… I don’t believe you will find much, if any, “negativity” in my posts.  However, if we were to look at your 9.556 posts, how many negative posts will we find?

Secondly. it’s blatantly obvious to me that your “45 minutes” was NOT about a car or Toyota truck engine swap.

And three, based upon his initial post, how did you figure out what his “bubble” is?

I don’t know what you do for a living.

I believe this forum, like other similar forums, at its core is about the DIYers sharing experiences.  Along with the great ideas, highly skilled participators, incredible range of experiences, there is also the Bravo Sierra and very inexperienced.

I am obviously, by my rebuild thread, ENCOURAGING anyone looking at doing a similar project to follow what I’m going through.  Anyone who has rebuilt these engines, whether a DIYer or a professional, knows that the devil is in the details when rebuilding or modifying theses engines.
 
So, when I see posts that read with good intentions, post encouraging comments to someone who just started posting and asks very open-ended questions, I think it’s only fair to expect a good sampling of opinions.

Knowing very little about the OP, I think it is a disservice to NOT inject a dose of reality into a discussion that involves a $3,000 newly rebuilt long block being installed in 32 year old vehicle that many of us know what that involves.

He asks.. “Any input would be great”, and he’s got a quote for $2,500 to do the R&R.

And before anyone asks one question, we get….

“Buy a roll of masking tape, a black sharpee, a note book and a cherry picker.  Label all connectors, take notes and pics if you need, and swap it yourself.  Super easy to do in a very short time”

That may be YOUR reality, it is certainly not mine.

“That's to much for someone to do it! Just label everything, Lots of pictures, and you'll be fine.”    … this comment is apparently from a 17 year old who must have rebuilt his engine many times, and just fixed his engine with a bottle Seafoam.

Encouragement is great and so is setting real expectations.

If 22RE out of 30 year old truck were so super easy to rebuild and install, it would not take 22RE Performance 40 hours to rebuild one to a quality level that most people want.

Reality check…  we find out more information… 

“…1985 … 22RE .. 285K miles, may or may not be original motor, leaks oil big time, wants a reliable weekend use truck for hunting/fishing trips, purchased in 2015, doesn’t know the history of current motor. “

It’s one thing for a guy on a tight budget to brag about yanking his engine in his drive-way, slap $500 worth of parts on it, drop it back in and say “I rebuilt my 22R in 6 hours”.  It is an entirely different thing FUBARing a $3,000 to $5,000 engine install that will most likely ruin Hickory Nut’s day.

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless.

Gnarls.

[Toybrota]

Yeah, I only gave my opinion on label stuff as I've worked in a Toyota shop where they built many 22R's, I've seen what works with them.  I haven't rebuilt built mine, just gave an opinion I agreed with. I'm reminded many times I use this forum that people are attacked for everything.

Oh well.

[Gnarly4X]

Yeah, I only gave my opinion on label stuff as I've worked in a Toyota shop where they built many 22R's, I've seen what works with them.  I haven't rebuilt built mine, just gave an opinion I agreed with. I'm reminded many times I use this forum that people are attacked for everything.

Oh well.

No personal "attack" intended.  I was simply making a point about the type of comments typically made on these forums.

Gnarls.

[Slabzilla]

No one "learns" unless they try to do something they haven't tried or have little experience with. Having someone with with some experience helping and labeling everything and an FSM is an invaluable experience. I've helped several novices get started and now have aerospace techs and Edison journeymen and auto mechanics to account for my assistance, so we all have to start somewhere, you never know who you'll inspire with just an engine swap. 

[knucklebuster]

Buy a roll of masking tape, a black sharpee, a note book and a cherry picker.  Label all connectors, take notes and pics if you need, and swap it yourself.  Super easy to do in a very short time

This ^^^ And I bought a box of manilla envelopes and used pieces of cardboard with holes poked in them in the shape of what I was removing and with a description  like this:

Upr motor L *                  upr motor R (dont forget brkt) *

Lwr motor L *                       Lwr motor R*
I had a stack of cardboard pieces with bolts for every component and a description of it when I was done

Pressure washer or clean everything BEFORE you label stuff

It really isn't that hard, being that all the hoses and wires have a couple hundred thousand miles on them they are pretty baked, they want to go back where they came from!
On that note check All your coolant hoses and fittings around your intake. A few of mine where pitted almost all the way through. They are a pain to get to when everything is back together.
You have most of the hard stuff done already with the 22reperformance  motor and Shiney new bolts that you don't have to keep track of.