Topic: oversized clutch upgrade

[gdmcondev]

Hi Guys,

I just bought the first clutch for my one owner 1987 Toyota 22r/5spd/regular cab/4x4 pickup.  I bought the truck new in September, 1987.  I remember I paid 9600 OTD at least thats what I remember.....

I found Marlin Crawlers on Blogs I used to identify problems with the Toyota lately.  I just had to replace an AAP diaphragm in the Carburetor, replace the water pump with an OEM and found a LED for the dome light and I just put on some Bilstien 4600's.  Brakes are next.  Marlin Crawlers only has brakes for the straight axle trucks.  My 87 is  IFS. 

The truck has 144,800 miles on it and the Clutch gave out.  A few months ago I purchased a Clutch Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder.  OEM parts.  I tried to get the Blue Colored Brake Fluid but I read it is not available anymore.  So I just put LUCAS in it.   I seems to work fine for the few months before the clutch just gave out.    The Clutch was not slipping it just became increasingly difficult to get the truck into reverse and finally any gear.  I checked the Fluid level on the Master Cylinder and it is full.  I have never worked on a Hydraulic Clutch until this Toyota.  My previous Clutch experience was in HighSchool with my 67 GTO/Muncie 4spd.  68 El Camino 3 on the tree and my 50 Chevy Pick Up 4 on the floor. 

The Clutch I purchased was the 1979-1992 Oversized Clutch Upgrade Item #MCCL-111TC.   When the parts arrived I saw that I only received the Pressure Plate and the Disk.  I called Marlin Crawler phone # that was on the invoice.  The shop was closed even though the message machine said it was regular working hours.  I emailed Marlin Crawlers through the Contact tab.  They did not respond.  I called them on the following Monday and first time was the recording again.  Second time I got ahold of a Sale Rep.  He looked up my order and confirmed that the Flywheel and Bolts were missing.  He said he would call me back with an update. The next day I called them back.  I got a different Sales Rep.  He said that the parts had shipped.  I awaited for the parts to arrive.  On my account there was no mention of a back order or two shipments.  Well the parts arrived yesterday.  I have today off so I opened up the parts.  The flywheel and bolts appear to have arrived.  The clutch pressure plate measures 9 5/16 across for most of the pressure plate.  There are a few indentions where it is less.   The clutch pressure plate looks like it measures 8 7/8" across.   When I take the pressure plate and put it on the flywheel  the pressure plate does not seem to fit.  There are "tits' and bolt holes on the flywheel.  The tits do not line up with the pressure plate.  Because the tits are in the way I can not tell if the bolt holes line up.  The pressure plate is shrink wrapped on a cardboard that says LUK.  The pressure plate is in a box that says AISIN the disk is in a box that says SECO.  The bearings are in NACHi boxes. 

There are parts numbers on the boxes but no parts numbers on the website saying which parts I should have. 

Customer service and me have not been firing on all 4 cylinders yet.  I reach out to you guys to see if indeed based on my descriptions  the parts are wrong or correct.  I do not have a lift so I am glad I have not pulled the transfer case/tranny only to have them sit if these parts are wrong.

What do you guys think?

[Dingman.]

Sounds to me like you got some normal parts and some upgraded parts.

Your post is confusing when you say

"The clutch pressure plate measures 9 5/16 across for most of the pressure plate.  There are a few indentions where it is less.   The clutch pressure plate looks like it measures 8 7/8" across. "

Regardless,  it sounds like you have half of an upgraded kit and half of a regular kit.

[gdmcondev [OP]]

Thank you!  Thats what I thought myself.  Never having seen a kit other than what they show on the website.  I wondered. 

I am bummed because I have 2 weeks into this and still not the right parts.  ZERO communication from Marlins.  Only my attempts to to them.  The TOY just sits and I am driving my Z71.

I will call them on Monday and hope for the best.

When I say talk about Pressure Plate and  9 5/16 diameter.  The plate is a perfect circle except for a few indentations around the perimeter of the disk.  It does not assemble to my flywheel though.  My clutch disk seems too small.

[Dingman.]

 Try calling them on Monday and talking to them.  (I know normally they are only open Monday-Thursday).  I know it can be somewhat frustrating as they can be difficult to get on the phone as I hear they are short handed, but just hang on there and keep trying!  Good luck, I know marlin will make it work out!   

[Cheesemaker]

What happened is you got a normal clutch, and a turbo flywheel.  The upgrade is a turbo setup.  Which is the 9 5/16" dimensions.   The stock setup is the 8 7/8" setup. 


Try and call, I know it can be frustrating.  But they are going thru with big sales orders, and a holiday season.  Plus they can be understaffed from time to time. 

[gdmcondev [OP]]

Hey guys,

What do you think?

I installed my upgrade turbo clutch kit.  A few months ago I put a Aisin Master and Slave Clutch Cylinder in before I did the Clutch up grade.

I seem to be losing adjustment on my Clutch.  Since the Cylinders are new and Aisin (good stuff I think)  do you think the fluid is going somewhere?  I do not really see too much if any leaving the reservoir.  I hope the adjustment problem is my rubber line from hard line to slave is bad.

I ordered a Stainless Clutch Line hoping it gets here so I can install it this weekend.  Am I on the right track?  Is there a trick to bleeding the Cylinders for long term?  Does the new clutch settle in and need adjustment again?  I have perhaps 800 miles on new Clutch set up.

Waiting til my posts get up to so I can post a picture of my 87 Pickup.  Folks stop me wanting to purchase it.  Everything has a price...........

Help this aging baby boomer.  Its a pain in the tail to crawl under my truck.

Thanx!

[mudmaster]

Should be able to bleed it and once the air is out that's it. Is the reservoir staying at the full mark? If not, you have a leak that you need to find.

[Snowtoy]

Did you bench bleed the master before installing it?

[gdmcondev [OP]]

The Reservoir stays at the full mark.  What started at 1/2-3/4"play in peddle is now 2", I bet.

Marlin Crawlers is nerve wracking with their Customer Service.  First  order sent stuff with back order.  Second shipment sent back order,  opened box of  stuff shipped  first time now that all the goodies are there....wrong stuff sent first time.  They close I guess on Friday because no answer first shipment and now again today.  I ordered my stainless line clutch line the website says order complete but without shipping information listed.  My credit card says $48 to Marlin Crawlers and they are closed today!  I fear  am not making plans to work on the Toy this weekend.

[gdmcondev [OP]]

No I did not bench bleed it.  I just stuck it in, stuck the slave in.  Then put a clear hose on the nipple thing, had a friend slowly pump the peddle/close nipple/etc until zero bubbles in the clear line.   

Is bench bleed a necessity?  Its a lot of work for an old guy to squinch himself in under the dash and remove the Master Cylinder. 

Will my bleeding technique work?  Can air enter the system with out a leak?

[Cheesemaker]

Any master cylinder or clutch cylinder needs to be bench bled first.   You have to work out the air in the cylinder first before trying to work out the air in the line. 
I always just put it in, and bench bleed it in the rig, then hook up my lines, and bleed them. 


There is air in the system, and it needs to be worked out.  I would disconnect the line at the cylinder, and bench bleed it in rig, to make sure there is no air in the master.  Then hook up the line, and then crack the bleeder at the slave, and let it gravity bleed out. 

I know its a pain to crawl under our rigs.  My knees don't like getting down on the ground anymore.  And pounding concrete in rubber boots for the last 25 years, has left my ankles in a mess.  So, I feel your pain in having to crawl in and around our rigs. 



And yes, dealing with Marlin Crawler can leave you frustrated.  Best way to describe them is this; They are a small company, with products that are in a big demand!"  But when you get their product, which can take a while, you will be very happy with it! 

[mudmaster]

This ^^^

[Snowtoy]

No I did not bench bleed it.  I just stuck it in, stuck the slave in.  Then put a clear hose on the nipple thing, had a friend slowly pump the peddle/close nipple/etc until zero bubbles in the clear line.   

Is bench bleed a necessity?  Its a lot of work for an old guy to squinch himself in under the dash and remove the Master Cylinder. 

Will my bleeding technique work?  Can air enter the system with out a leak?

Bleeding the system at the slave wont usually remove the air that gets trapped in the cylinder behind the plunger on assembly, which has now worked its way into the system through use.

As Cheesemaker stated, you can bench bleed on the truck, then rebleed the system through the slave.

[Gnarly4X]

I've replaced a number of master clutch cylinders and slave cylinders and have never had to bench bleed them. 

Gnarls.

[mudmaster]

Then you got lucky.

[Gnarly4X]

gdmcondev,

If you cannot find any leaks, I would have someone get under the truck and watch for ANY movement in the clutch fork after someone presses the clutch peddle to the floor, holding it to the floor.  If there is any movement in the clutch fork once the clutch peddle is pressed to the floor and not moved, the slave cylinder is possibly bleeding fluid across the piston internally.

Gnarls.

[gdmcondev [OP]]

I bought one of those Harbor Freight hydraulic bleeders.....Problem solved!

[:)bestgen4runner]

Bench bleed is the only way.
Also don't Bench bleed in the vehicle, the travel of the pedal assembly does not always have enough travel to perform
a complete stroke.
If you have tried and tried and are still getting no pedel you have likely stroked (killed) the Master cyl.
Its important to not build pressure when you start the bench bleeding process, only move fluid.
building pressure from the start can and will stroke the master cyl.
I suspect you need a new one at this point. then follow the proper procedures and it will work Perfectly.
Hi Gnarly4x 

[Gnarly4X]

Bench bleed is the only way. 

Naaaaaahhhh….. bench bleeding a master cylinder is overated.

I’ve never stuck a master cylinder or slave cylinder in vise and did a bench bleed.

What’s wrong with this video??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOTkVAeU_n4

.... If you have tried and tried and are still getting no pedel you have likely stroked (killed) the Master cyl....building pressure from the start can and will stroke the master cyl. 

I have never "stroked (killed)" a master cylinder.

Gnarls.

[Slabzilla]

Bench bleed is way over rated, never done it properly that way.  I just install all parts add fluid crack the slave bleed screw with the cap on the master and give it three strokes or until fluid come out. I let it drain as I add fluid as required, then tighten the bleed screw.  make sure the master is full and cap is on.  press the peddle down and hold it for a few seconds and SLOWLY release the peddle, bubbles will come into the master. continue to do this until no more bubbles and your done, works  every time, done it the same way for years.