Author Topic: Clutch upgrade  (Read 2398 times)

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mountain,man1

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Clutch upgrade
« on: Jan 02, 2019, 05:45:22 PM »
Hi I am new to this site I'm new to forums I have a stock 88 4Runner 22RE w56b I'm going to be changing my rear main seal and oil pan gasket I'm going to change my clutch while I'm in there figure it's a good idea my question is would it be dumb for me to install Marlin crawlers 1,600ft pound clutch in a daily driver that I occasionally take trail riding or should I stick with the stock clutch
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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #1 on: Jan 02, 2019, 05:48:39 PM »
Stock clutch is 900lbs, so the 1200 would be fine. I recently spoke to someone at Marlin about using their 1200lb clutch in a daily/weekend wheeler on small tires, and they said it would be fine. I don't think you will gain anything from the 1,600 lb clutch. Just more annoying to daily drive.
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mountain,man1 [OP]

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #2 on: Jan 02, 2019, 06:53:05 PM »
I was originally looking at the 1200 but was thinking about going with the 1600 because it's not much more expensive also running 31 10.5s if that matters any
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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #3 on: Jan 02, 2019, 08:06:20 PM »
I was originally looking at the 1200 but was thinking about going with the 1600 because it's not much more expensive also running 31 10.5s if that matters any

You won't gain anything by running the 1600 lb clutch, especially with a street driven truck on 31s. And with 100 flywheel horsepower it would probably be a stall-fest anyways.
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Gnarly4X

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #4 on: Jan 03, 2019, 03:33:33 AM »
Unless you are driving stupidly, a clutch should go 75k to 100K in an early Toyota truck.

The guys I know who went for marketing poop about heavy duty clutch and pressure plates had issues.   One, the clutch discs were “grabby” (Centerforce)… not real smooth for crawling.  Two, their stock clutch slave cylinder was blowing out.  If you have ever experienced NOT having a clutch to shift gears, you will know why you will NOT want to have a clutch slave cylinder fail on a trail.  If you do decide to go with a heavy duty pressure plate, I’d recommend always carrying a spare clutch slave cylinder in your off-road tool box.  Besides the extra cost, adding extra weight at the business end of the crankshaft doesn’t help anything.

Unless you are going to be drag racing a modified engine, I don’t believe you need a 1600 lb. pressure plate and grabby clutch disc for common off-roading and daily driving.  If the factory stock clutch was a problem, we’d all know about it by now.

Now, with that said, Marlin sells a high quality product.  But.. there are also excellent lower cost clutch kits out there… Aisin, LUK, Beck Arnley, M-Pact.

That’s just my opinion – it may be worthless.  :gap:

Gnarl.
« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2019, 03:41:08 AM by Gnarly4X »
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emsvitil

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #5 on: Jan 03, 2019, 03:52:35 AM »
This is for stock pressure clutches.

I've found that the major problem with slippage is the self-adjusting slave cylinder.

To be self-adjusting, the slave is sticky.    It wants to stay extended. 

When extended,  the clutch will tend to slip (even with your foot off the clutch).


I slowed down my clutch technique with a bit of a pause before applying power to avoid clutch slippage.


And using .026" for the clutch step on the flywheel gives you a little more grab.


Ed
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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #6 on: Jan 03, 2019, 04:05:56 AM »
Interesting.... 

I use DOT 4 brake fluid. It has a higher boiling point so it should help reduce fluid expansion.  Here in AZ it gets hot in the summer months.  I have never experienced a problem with clutch slippage.  Air in the slave cylinder could cause an issue and keeping some pressure.  The pressure plate should overcome any abnormal pressure in the slave cylinder.

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

emsvitil

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #7 on: Jan 03, 2019, 04:09:46 AM »
Eventually the pressure plate does overcome the slave.

It's just not immediate like manually adjustable slave cylinder rods.
Ed
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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #8 on: Jan 03, 2019, 04:11:27 AM »
Practice your clutchless shifting occasionally



 :think:
Ed
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gnob

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #9 on: Jan 03, 2019, 04:32:27 AM »
A clutch should /can last well over 100k. If you don't get that kind of mileage, your driving sucks or the clutch was a Chinese pos.
hold this. . .

Gnarly4X

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #10 on: Jan 03, 2019, 04:33:39 AM »
Practice your clutchless shifting occasionally



 :think:


Hey e....  so how do I practice clutchless shifting while rockcrawling? :dunno:

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

Lewis Hein

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #11 on: Jan 03, 2019, 09:26:45 AM »
I have some kind of heavy duty clutch that came in my in my 4x4, and it's kind of a love-hate relationship. I love that I can beat on it with less anxiety, but it makes my left knee hurt a bit after a while of city driving. Plus it's super grabby.

I know most hauling or driving in snow is hard on a clutch. We burned out the one in our 2wd Toyota at 80k with a winter of busting snowdrifts

mountain,man1 [OP]

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #12 on: Jan 03, 2019, 05:07:48 PM »
Thanks guys for all the input does anyone know a good place to get an Aisin clutch my local parts store O'Reilly's does not carry Aisin anymore they offered me a power torque clutch for 95.99 but I had never heard of power torque brand before they also have centerforce clutches available but cannot give me a price unless I give them a card and I think that's stupid so I won't get a clutch through them now
88 TurdRunner 22RE W56B 31x10.5R15 no lift rust assisted weight reduction 100% trail damage

NotPossible907

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #13 on: Jan 03, 2019, 05:31:40 PM »
Yotashop and 22re performance both came up on google. Never ordered from either of them though.

mountain,man1 [OP]

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #14 on: Jan 03, 2019, 05:51:02 PM »
Notpossible907 thanks for the info yotashop has an aisin clutch for close to what my last one costed I may not change it due to I only have about 20K on my current clutch but it'll be a good thing to have one in the shop should I need it down the trail

Does anybody know how many miles is the typical lifespan of the master and slave cylinder the previous owner of my 4Runner replaced the master cylinder in 2008 and I replaced the slave cylinder when I replaced the clutch in 2011
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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #15 on: Jan 03, 2019, 08:27:30 PM »
Depends on if it's Toyota or not. Sounds like it was chinese if it's been replaced twice.
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emsvitil

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #16 on: Jan 03, 2019, 08:51:45 PM »
Hey e....  so how do I practice clutchless shifting while rockcrawling? :dunno:

Gnarls.

That's what starting in gear with the starter is for.
Ed
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Gnarly4X

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #17 on: Jan 04, 2019, 03:40:54 AM »
Notpossible907 thanks for the info yotashop has an aisin clutch for close to what my last one costed I may not change it due to I only have about 20K on my current clutch but it'll be a good thing to have one in the shop should I need it down the trail

Does anybody know how many miles is the typical lifespan of the master and slave cylinder the previous owner of my 4Runner replaced the master cylinder in 2008 and I replaced the slave cylinder when I replaced the clutch in 2011

Hi mountain,man1,

20K miles on a new clutch is only about 1/5th of its average life span.  I would NOT replace it or the pressure plate.  I would wash the clutch disc quickly - not soak it - in warm (not hot) water with a little dish soap, rinse it well, dry it well and re-use it.  If the disc is obviously soaked with gear oil or crankcase oil from a leaking rear main seal, I'd replace the disc, and would not replace the pressure plate.

A variety of clutch discs and clutch kits are available from RockAuto.com:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1988,4runner,2.4l+l4,1272215,transmission-manual,clutch+friction+disc,10605

I would not replace a clutch master cylinder of clutch slave cylinder due to mileage... I'd wait until it fails.

I'm not sure what you mean by "in the shop and down the trail".... but doing an R&R clutch job on a "trail" could be very difficult to very painful.

Gnarls.
« Last Edit: Jan 04, 2019, 04:25:08 AM by Gnarly4X »
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #18 on: Jan 04, 2019, 03:56:18 AM »
That's what starting in gear with the starter is for.

Hey e.... have you ever rock crawled on a trail with no clutch?  The trails here where we did would be EXTREMELY difficult to get through with a failed clutch slave cylinder or not being able use or release a clutch!!

Having to drive a vehicle on a road without a clutch is possible, but not easy when starting, stopping, restarting, and very hard on the starter and the transmission.  After witnessing a fellow wheeler having to get off of trail, and then drive 60 miles home with NO CLUTCH was enough to convince me what I would NOT want to go through and why I immediately went out and bought a spare clutch slave cylinder for my off-road spare parts kit.

Gnarls.

1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

mountain,man1 [OP]

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #19 on: Jan 04, 2019, 05:51:26 AM »
Gnarls what I meant by having a clutch in the shop down the trail is having a clutch lying in my shop that way when it goes out I can just put my truck on the lift and change it due to the fact the w56b transmission it's the lightest transmission I have ever dealt with I probably could change my clutch out on the trail in about 2 hours
88 TurdRunner 22RE W56B 31x10.5R15 no lift rust assisted weight reduction 100% trail damage

05sport4x4

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #20 on: Jan 04, 2019, 02:58:37 PM »
I had the Marlin 1600 lb clutch in my 89 pickup 22RE and 31" tires.  I did not find it any more tiring to use than the stock replacement clutch I had previously.  I would not change your clutch at 20k miles unless it look damaged or soaked with oil on inspection.  A decent clutch will last over a 100k miles under regular usage.  Of course that will vary with the driver and how much they abuse it.  The cheap stock replacement failed on the trail with about 95k miles.  (friction material separated from the clutch plate and had zero bit at the end).  Ended up with an 80 mile tow back home.
John

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89 Extra Cab 4x4 Pickup, 22re, 31x10.5 w/4.56's & ARB in rear

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #21 on: Jan 05, 2019, 01:29:24 PM »
Gnarls what I meant by having a clutch in the shop down the trail is having a clutch lying in my shop that way when it goes out I can just put my truck on the lift and change it due to the fact the w56b transmission it's the lightest transmission I have ever dealt with I probably could change my clutch out on the trail in about 2 hours

OK, I gotcha.  Yeah.. I could see a clutch R&R in 2 hours on a trail.  In my 20+ years of very active 4-wheeling, I can only remember witnessing 1 clutch failure.  It was a 1st gen Toy pickup, lots of mileage on the clutch, in the sand dunes, and the driver had no experience sand duning with his truck.  He smoked the clutch in about 10 minutes.  A clutch failure on a rock crawling trail would seem unlikely because we have low gearing, and slipping the clutch excessively is typically not done, right?

Gnarls.
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #22 on: Jan 05, 2019, 01:35:46 PM »
I had the Marlin 1600 lb clutch in my 89 pickup 22RE and 31" tires.  I did not find it any more tiring to use than the stock replacement clutch I had previously.  I would not change your clutch at 20k miles unless it look damaged or soaked with oil on inspection.  A decent clutch will last over a 100k miles under regular usage.  Of course that will vary with the driver and how much they abuse it.  The cheap stock replacement failed on the trail with about 95k miles.  (friction material separated from the clutch plate and had zero bit at the end).  Ended up with an 80 mile tow back home.

I remember when I had a 3200 lb. L-88 pressure plate and clutch disc installed on my 1967 Vette.  The difference in clutch pedal pressure was VERY noticeable.  My little 5ft 2" girl friend loved to drive it, but not in LA bumper to bumper traffic.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :blah:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #23 on: Jan 05, 2019, 02:47:45 PM »
I remember when I had a 3200 lb. L-88 pressure plate and clutch disc installed on my 1967 Vette.  The difference in clutch pedal pressure was VERY noticeable.  My little 5ft 2" girl friend loved to drive it, but not in LA bumper to bumper traffic.  :gap:

Gnarls.  :blah:
I hope She was smoking hot Gnarly?
Would have to be to drive My 1967 Vette
I am 1/5th of Perfect Fit
SqWADoosh [04:19 PM]: *sigh* I guess Chris is right and I just need to wait until I'm in a place where I have a tow rig and trailer before I get this caliber of truck
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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #24 on: Jan 05, 2019, 03:39:54 PM »
I hope She was smoking hot Gnarly?
Would have to be to drive My 1967 Vette

OMG... Was she ever HOT!!  She was a beautiful Italian, dark eyes, dark hair, beautiful body, olive skin!!  :yikes:

I should have married her... dummy me!!.  :hammerhead:.. but at 25 years young I didn't know didley!!  :gap:

Gnarls.  :disturbed:
1986 XtraCab SR5 22RE 5speed W56B, ~26,000 MI after break-in, DIM (Did It Myself) rebuilt engine - .020" over, engnbldr RV head, OS valves, 261C cam, DT Header. https://imgur.com/oACTHTR

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #25 on: Jan 05, 2019, 05:50:45 PM »
I've used the CenterForce next step up from stock clutch for 126k and just stepped up to the Marlin 1200lb Turbo w/flywheel set-up and am really happy with it.  The CF clutch was fine but wasn't any better or worse, we'll see about longevity. I expect as much or better of the Turbo clutch just because of the larger diameter.  The Dual-Frction CenterForce is way beyond overkill for our little 4-poppers.  The clutch you have should be fine.   :twocents:   :biggthumpup:
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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #26 on: Jan 07, 2019, 06:52:24 AM »
I had the Marlin 1600 lb clutch in my 89 pickup 22RE and 31" tires.  I did not find it any more tiring to use than the stock replacement clutch I had previously.  I would not change your clutch at 20k miles unless it look damaged or soaked with oil on inspection.  A decent clutch will last over a 100k miles under regular usage.  Of course that will vary with the driver and how much they abuse it.  The cheap stock replacement failed on the trail with about 95k miles.  (friction material separated from the clutch plate and had zero bit at the end).  Ended up with an 80 mile tow back home.

I have that clutch now and I can confirm the pedal pressure  feels no more than the decent stock replacement I took out.  The Marlin 1,600 lb clutch is a pussycat at the pedal but hooks up good.
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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #27 on: Jan 07, 2019, 07:01:42 AM »
We need a clutch for 85 SC LB worktruck.

For some reason, 300k is going with the 22REP clutch. Maybe this post will change his thinking. I wanted MC.
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mountain,man1 [OP]

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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #28 on: Jan 07, 2019, 06:37:39 PM »
Right before I bought my truck I smoke the clutch in it trying to pull an 84 Ford Bronco buried to its chassis in the mud in high side then my buddy sold me the 4Runner for $400 I was new to driving a clutch but I changed it by myself in my driveway in about an hour and a half
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Re: Clutch upgrade
« Reply #29 on: Jan 08, 2019, 03:19:22 AM »
We need a clutch for 85 SC LB worktruck.

For some reason, 300k is going with the 22REP clutch. Maybe this post will change his thinking. I wanted MC.

I'm sure either of them would be a good choice.
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