Author Topic: Timing Chain Tricks (Read 8184 times)

blyota91 · « **on:** Jun 28, 2005, 05:30:47 PM »

I am going to be replacing the timing chain on a 95 22re next week at work and I was wondering if anybody could give me some tips to make it a quicker job. I have done the one on my truck but I also swapped heads at the same time. I've also done a few head gaskets on these engines. I know it is possible to do the chain without taking off the head, whats the trick to this I can't remember. Also I don't need to pull the oil pan do I? I can just unbolt the front bolts and use silicone on it when it goes back together. I am also replacing the radiator at the same time so that will be out of the way. Give me all the tips and tricks you guys know. I know it has PS but I'm not sure if it has A/C or not.

Thanks

Andrew

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #1 on:** Jun 28, 2005, 05:46:19 PM »

Its so easy to do a timing chain on those engines. Just lower the pan a bit you dont have to take it all the way off. The first think I do it pull the valvecover and rotate the crankshaft around till the dowel pin for the cam is at about 11:45 and the crank pulley is right at 0*. Then you can pulleverything apart easily without worrying about the cam timing being off.

BUBBA · « **Reply #2 on:** Jun 28, 2005, 10:03:50 PM »

Just don't forget about the bolt underneath the dis.gear going through the head into the timing cover.

blyota91 · « **Reply #3 on:** Jun 29, 2005, 04:12:31 AM »

So there is no trick really to getting the timing cover off without removing the head? It should just pull off? I thought there would be something neat to learn, oh well, any other tips?

Andrew

BUBBA · « **Reply #4 on:** Jun 29, 2005, 05:01:49 AM »

Not that I can think of.It's a pretty straightforward job.Just be carefull not to mess up the headgasket when you pull it off and put it back on.go slow and take your time when doing it and you shouldn't have a problem.

BigMike · « **Reply #5 on:** Jun 29, 2005, 07:24:45 AM »

Do not take the head off. Just unbolt the cover, drop the pan (completely drop it so that you can clean the surfaces to reseal it), and the cover will pop off.

Please be ultra carefull when tightening the top bolt that is just below the cam gear. The timing covers can crack very eaisly. Only torque it to about 12 ft-lbs or so.

When you put the cover back on, put a small dab of silicone at both corners where the engine block meats the cylinder head, and when you put the cover on, kind'of push the top side up under the head first, and then rotate the lower side of it into the engine block. This way you will spread the silicone around as much as possible.

I've pulled timing covers off of 3 different engines and I've never had the head gasket stick to the cover or be ruined.

BigMike

Cracker · « **Reply #6 on:** Jun 30, 2005, 06:49:28 AM »

IIRC, there are 18 bolts you have to remove from the timing chain cover/oil pan/coolant lines to get the TC cover off.

IIRC, the Haynes AND FSM only show 17 of them....

I remember thinking i had all the bolts out, and couldnt pull the cover off, so I started gently tapping it with a rubber mallet....
Luckily, before i really got started on it, I checked again and found another bolt under the water pump, sort of in the center of the cover i had missed....This is the one I'm pretty sure wasnt shown in the manuals....

Also, those 17 or 18 bolts are many different sizes and lengths...
What I do now is get a piece of cardboard, and stick each bolt thru it as I pull them, and make the outline of the cover out of them, so i can see exactly where they go back into....Makes bolting it back together go MUCH quicker...Especially since the water pump bolts are mostly the same size except for like 3 different lengths...Dont want to put a long one in a short hole, and strip threads or crack the cover cause it bottomed out....

Yota87Truck · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2008, 05:50:32 PM »

Anybody ever heard of needing to put in shims after you shave your head down? If so how do you do it? I had my head resurfaced last year and put all new timing chain in and everything and now my chain skipped a tooth and then later stripped off all of the teeth on the sprocket. and when I went to get a new timing chain set, checker said I needed shims and I don't know how to install them or where, and checker didn't carry shims and I have to go to another shop, like a machine shop to get them.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2008, 06:21:05 PM »

Quote from: Yota87Truck on May 31, 2008, 05:50:32 PM

Anybody ever heard of needing to put in shims after you shave your head down? If so how do you do it? I had my head resurfaced last year and put all new timing chain in and everything and now my chain skipped a tooth and then later stripped off all of the teeth on the sprocket. and when I went to get a new timing chain set, checker said I needed shims and I don't know how to install them or where, and checker didn't carry shims and I have to go to another shop, like a machine shop to get them.

what your checker dude was referring to was a head gasket shim, do you remember how much your machine shop took off the head when it was shaved??

also was your timing chain tight when it was installed new??

KDXSR5 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2008, 07:04:13 PM »

how is your tensioner looking? I would have replaced it. My 85 engine skipped teeth because of the tensioner as well as some other issues causing low oil flow.

Yota87Truck · « **Reply #10 on:** Jun 01, 2008, 04:13:27 PM »

Quote from: 79coyotefrg on May 31, 2008, 06:21:05 PM

what your checker dude was referring to was a head gasket shim, do you remember how much your machine shop took off the head when it was shaved??

also was your timing chain tight when it was installed new??

where does this head gasket shim go? And no I do not know how much was shaved off my head. This happened about a year ago. And Im sure my timing chain was tight when it was installed. But idk for sure. Mostly I have no clue about this shim I am supposed to need and I just wanted to look into it to see wheither I need it or not.

Quote from: KDXSR5 on May 31, 2008, 07:04:13 PM

how is your tensioner looking? I would have replaced it. My 85 engine skipped teeth because of the tensioner as well as some other issues causing low oil flow.

I have not started tearing it down yet so idk what shape everything is in. But I will check the tensioner too.

KDXSR5 · « **Reply #11 on:** Jun 01, 2008, 06:33:06 PM »

Its basically a thicker head gasket. It spaces your head away from the block as much as it was before the head was decked. The problem is, to get the correct thickness, you need to know how much was taken off. You get the "shim" that is the same thickness as how much was taken off.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #12 on:** Jun 01, 2008, 06:57:23 PM »

unless somebody got CRAZY trying to "squeeze more power" out of it, they should never have taken more than .010, and thats not enough to cause the chain to be loose

it sounds like you got a bad tensioner, and possibly a bent valve or 4 cause if it stripped the teeth off the gear you had to have had a valve smack a piston

boobap · « **Reply #13 on:** Jun 03, 2008, 08:23:38 AM »

Quote

Not that I can think of.It's a pretty straightforward job.Just be carefull not to mess up the headgasket when you pull it off and put it back on.go slow and take your time when doing it and you shouldn't have a problem.

would you guys really reuse your old head gasket?

for a realitivly "major" job why wouldn't you just spend the extra 25-30 bucks and replace it? i know that i would because they "crush" down when you apply torque...so that being said would you really risk a leak in a really bad spot for just a few bucks? i'm not sure if you where implying that you do reuse it, but to me it is just a really bad idea

DTB · « **Reply #14 on:** Jun 03, 2008, 08:24:37 AM »

Quote from: boobap on Jun 03, 2008, 08:23:38 AM

would you guys really reuse your old head gasket? for a realitivly "major" job why wouldn't you just spend the extra 25-30 bucks and replace it?

Wermz84 · « **Reply #15 on:** Jun 03, 2008, 09:52:10 AM »

Perhaps your chain is streched, or the cam gear teeth are worn.

Yota87Truck · « **Reply #16 on:** Jun 04, 2008, 09:16:53 AM »

Quote from: boobap on Jun 03, 2008, 08:23:38 AM

would you guys really reuse your old head gasket? for a realitivly "major" job why wouldn't you just spend the extra 25-30 bucks and replace it? i know that i would because they "crush" down when you apply torque...so that being said would you really risk a leak in a really bad spot for just a few bucks? i'm not sure if you where implying that you do reuse it, but to me it is just a really bad idea

Yeah if I was taking off the head I would not re-use it, but I'm not taking off the head, just the front cover, so basically just re-using the front 2 inches.

Quote from: 79coyotefrg on Jun 01, 2008, 06:57:23 PM

unless somebody got CRAZY trying to "squeeze more power" out of it, they should never have taken more than .010, and thats not enough to cause the chain to be loose

it sounds like you got a bad tensioner, and possibly a bent valve or 4 cause if it stripped the teeth off the gear you had to have had a valve smack a piston

I sure hope I dont have a bent valve. I really dont have the money to keep dropping in new engine parts

Quote from: Wermz84 on Jun 03, 2008, 09:52:10 AM

Perhaps your chain is streched, or the cam gear teeth are worn.

Well, what I dont get is I bought a timing chain kit about last december, so a little over a year ago, and i installed a new chain tensioner, new chain, new sprockets, new guides... it was just a kit from checker...

KDXSR5 · « **Reply #17 on:** Jun 04, 2008, 02:59:53 PM »

maybe thats the problem? kit from checker that is... but I do not know

Wermz84 · « **Reply #18 on:** Jun 04, 2008, 03:25:59 PM »

Quote from: Yota87Truck on Jun 04, 2008, 09:16:53 AM

Yeah if I was taking off the head I would not re-use it, but I'm not taking off the head, just the front cover, so basically just re-using the front 2 inches.

Yes that works fine.

Quote from: Yota87Truck on Jun 04, 2008, 09:16:53 AM

it was just a kit from checker...

What is checker?

I just replaced on that looked brand new but just came off the gears, it was stamped "made in India" (I didn't put it in

)

KDXSR5 · « **Reply #19 on:** Jun 04, 2008, 03:27:23 PM »

checker/kragen/schucks they are all the same and now owned by o'riely

Wermz84 · « **Reply #20 on:** Jun 04, 2008, 03:31:45 PM »

Quote from: KDXSR5 on Jun 04, 2008, 03:27:23 PM

checker/kragen/schucks they are all the same and now owned my o'riely

OK thanks. never heard of that line before.

IMHO i would only go to Toyota or LC for a part like that.

Or a quality auto shop that would get an american made one.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #21 on:** Jun 04, 2008, 04:33:49 PM »

Quote from: Wermz84 on Jun 03, 2008, 09:52:10 AM

Perhaps your chain is streched, or the cam gear teeth are worn.

Quote from: Yota87Truck on Jun 04, 2008, 09:16:53 AM

Well, what I dont get is I bought a timing chain kit about last december, so a little over a year ago, and i installed a new chain tensioner, new chain, new sprockets, new guides... it was just a kit from checker...

um THERE'S THE PROBLEM, you replaced the most improtant part of your engine, besides the oil pump with ... it was just a kit from checker...

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #22 on:** Jun 04, 2008, 05:00:55 PM »

Quote

Setting The Proper Distributor Timing

Setting ignition timing on a high performance Toyota engine can make a very big difference in how they ultimately will perform. When using an LC Engineering Pro Distributor (Part# 17-100), we recommend the "total" timing be set at 30-32 degrees. On some high compression engines (call our Tech Dept. for specifics) the total timing can be increased a little, usually up to 34-36 degrees.
In order to achieve the recommended 30-32 total degrees of timing, start by setting the #1 piston at top dead center. Make sure the distributor rotor is pointing to the #1 spark plug wire and then install the distributor. Connect a "delay" or "digital" timing light and start the engine. Bring the engine to 2000 RPM's and set the timing to 30-32 degrees.
LC Engineering's Pro Distributors are built with a curve providing a total of 20-22 degrees mechanically (with no vacuum advance). If you set the initial timing of the distributor to 10 degrees, you should be in the 30-32 total timing degree range at 2000 RPM. Again, you can use your timing light to check and make sure you are in the 30-32 total degree range.
Using an LC Engineering Pro Distributor with vacuum advance, you will have an additional timing advance of 7 degrees. With the vacuum increases, you will see an increase in fuel mileage under normal "cruising" conditions.
If you happen to encounter any "spark knock" or "pinging" under full throttle operation, it may be a sign of a lean fuel condition. Check you carburetor and it's components for possible re-jetting.
If you are unsure how to check for a lean fuel condition, you can purchase our LC Pro Mixture Meter, Part# 24-110 & 24-114. With the correct fuel flow and ignition timing you should be able to eliminate any "spark knock" or "pinging".

Yota87Truck · « **Reply #23 on:** Jun 04, 2008, 09:50:14 PM »

Found what caused the problem, my timing chain tensioner failed. So I put a new one in and now im starting to put everything back together.

Quote from: 79coyotefrg on Jun 04, 2008, 04:33:49 PM

um THERE'S THE PROBLEM, you replaced the most improtant part of your engine, besides the oil pump with ... it was just a kit from checker...

I was going to get all my parts from the toyota dealership but they were in the middle of moving locations so I wasn't able to cause they are closed and it will take too long for somebody like lc to ship the parts. This truck is my daily driver, I don't have the convience to wait around for parts. I'm kinda in a time crunch.

KDXSR5 · « **Reply #24 on:** Jun 04, 2008, 09:51:59 PM »

I WAS RIGHT!!!

glad you got it fixed! What exactly was wrong with the tensioner?

Yota87Truck · « **Reply #25 on:** Jun 06, 2008, 07:40:15 AM »

Well I pulled it out of my oil pan in chunks... the body was bolted on and the metal cylinder thing that it slides in and out on was in my pan along with the rubber piece the chian rides on. I never found the spring though.

Wermz84 · « **Reply #26 on:** Jun 06, 2008, 11:49:44 AM »

Dayum.

KDXSR5 · « **Reply #27 on:** Jun 06, 2008, 04:04:08 PM »

That sucks

Yota87Truck · « **Reply #28 on:** Jun 18, 2008, 05:37:37 PM »

Yeah, it did suck. I have it all back toghther, but while I was putting in the bolt between the head and timing cover I stripped it out so now it leaks oil out the front end. So now I have to tap it out and get a new bolt, other than that its running good.

blyota91 [OP]

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