Topic: Flux core vs mig

[91 ex-cab]

Lets hear some pros and cons of flux core and mig. Why you like one or the other, ect.

[TacoRunner]

MIG for pretty stuff. FLUX for super heavy stuff or stuff you have to weld out side in the wind.

[Sparkplug]

Flux for versatility, and ease

Gas for clean, pretty, and cheap

[Goldrush]

MIG for pretty stuff. FLUX for super heavy stuff or stuff you have to weld out side in the wind.

my thought exactly! 

[86toyota]

dual shield is where its at! flux cored wire with gas. of course in side only but an amazing looking weld. esp on stainless! very tasty haha

[85yotapolo]

they say using flux core is good for thick metal correct??

[Muddytazz]

Yes, flux core will burn hotter getting a deeper penetration than gas welding.

[Irongrave]

with either just takes buring a lot of rod for it to look good.  spend the time in prep and in some cases almost no difference in the weld aperance.  Though echo with the rest said.  Gas for easy good looking welds, flux for out side in the wind or thicker metals

[Sparkplug]

Flux core burns hotter because of the way the voltage goes from metal thru mahine, oppostie the way gas does. Gas also cools. I had a hobart 210, good welder, but after about 15 lbs of flux, it statrted to jam the liner and I had to get another one. I have since got a miller 211 and only run solid wire thru it, 4 lbs later and not a single jam or even sputter of my drive roll.

[TacoRunner]

dual shield is where its at! flux cored wire with gas. of course in side only but an amazing looking weld. esp on stainless! very tasty haha

I had no idea you could run dual shielding. Very interesting I'll have to try that.

As for Stainless, what are you referring to when you say esp? Are you talkin' a tri mix.

[junya92toy]

I had no idea you could run dual shielding. Very interesting I'll have to try that.

As for Stainless, what are you referring to when you say esp? Are you talkin' a tri mix.

No they make a dualshield stainless wire flux on the inside., it makes slag and uses gas. Tri mix, usings a solid wire, no slag.
The whole arguement about penetration is kinda dumb, neither one really penetrate that much, You are better off beveling all your joints.

[emsvitil]

dual shield is where its at! flux cored wire with gas. of course in side only but an amazing looking weld. esp on stainless! very tasty haha

What polarity do you run?   The polarity for flux or the polarity for gas?

[Muddytazz]

Same as gas, just takes different wire.

[94MtnYote]

Nope
GMAW, Solid wire- DCEP
FCAW, Self shielding- DCEN

[Muddytazz]

Brainfart, he is right.  I had Dual-shield on the brain.

[yjay]

Dual shield is awesome for welding thicker materials that are not very clean. Flux core is more forgiving for less than perfect surface preparation, and the addition of a shielding gas (I use Stargon from Oxarc) makes chipping the welds easier and makes the finished weld very pretty. For wire I use Esab e71t-1.
Dual shield has been used for structural steel in fab shops for some time now.
Mig is my preference for most applications on vehicles such as frame, suspension, etc. The only thing I would caution someone who is new to welding with it about is the fact that it is much easier to have lack of fusion and/or lack of penetration between the weld and base metal because the wire will melt at a relatively low amperage and create a weld that looks "nice" to an untrained eye, but will not perform well. This can all be avoided pretty easily with proper machine setup and good technique, especially proper travel speed and stickout. Mig is also great for thin materials.
Flux core is a very versatile process that can be used for most vehicle applications. A couple of the drawbacks would be it's a bit messy, both in terms of spatter on surrounding surfaces and the amount of smoke it produces.

[yotaneck13]

i learnd tat in stead of the u or c shape you are supposed to do with soid wire and gas that you should pull or push in a straight line for flux cored and since then my flux cored welds look so much beter  i run .035 and it actually lays a nice wide well penetrated bead if you pull slowly

[94MtnYote]

 Dual and inner shield both have a pretty fluid puddle, helps the deposit flow out and tie in on the sides which is sweet. But both produce a lot fumes and slag so I like to run hardwire er70s6 with 25/75 shielding. Nice n clean with no surprises hidden under the slag.

[Burl]

I'd have to get the particulars from my dad but I believe the spray transfer style of mig welding does better than standard mig welding for thicker material.  Not sure if spray transfer is possible with flux core or flux core with cover gas.  It might be something to look into when more penetration is desired in thicker materials.  I'll ask him about this subject the next time I get a chance. I also think that some welders require the polarity to be changed before swapping between the two methods flux and mig that is. 

[junya92toy]

Penetration is not on how hot it is, its all about prep! Bevels, open roots, etc. Spray is hot and fast. Its for solid wire only and only in the flat position, vertical down and thats about it. Plus it takes a ton of power to do it, your 220 wirefeed at home wont do it.

[91 ex-cab [OP]]

I'd have to get the particulars from my dad but I believe the spray transfer style of mig welding does better than standard mig welding for thicker material.  Not sure if spray transfer is possible with flux core or flux core with cover gas.  It might be something to look into when more penetration is desired in thicker materials.  I'll ask him about this subject the next time I get a chance. I also think that some welders require the polarity to be changed before swapping between the two methods flux and mig that is.  

But is any one really doing spray transfer at home in the shop? I thought that was more of an industrial, and robotic use
I always thought that mig gives you better looking welds and flux core has better penetration. Although that isn't exactly all the way right. My lincoln 180 requires you to switch polarity before going from one to the other, as does most other welders I have used/seen.

[91 ex-cab [OP]]

Penetration is not on how hot it is, its all about prep! Bevels, open roots, etc. Spray is hot and fast. Its for solid wire only and only in the flat position, vertical down and thats about it. Plus it takes a ton of power to do it, your 220 wirefeed at home wont do it.

So with the right prep you can get the same amount of penetration out of mig as to flux core? Flux core is just better for easier prep or if you are welding outdoors(wind)?

[junya92toy]

You have have to switch the polarity.
The deal with penetraion is this, its not what you think it is. just butting up two edges and welding results in very little penetration. Dosnt matter what you use, flux, dual, short arc, spray, submerged arc.  What you need is the right settings to get the metal to melt and created fusion. Thats the key.  

[junya92toy]

So with the right prep you can get the same amount of penetration out of mig as to flux core? Flux core is just better for easier prep or if you are welding outdoors(wind)?

Yes, you can get 100 pen welds with hard wire, and hardly any with flux if you do different preps.

[junya92toy]

that is a FUll pen weld with a 110 mig on 3/8s plate, vertical up, .030 hard wire, co2 gas, 10 passes, face bend. if you close at the center you will see the weld, color is little different.

[Gear Jammin-Dog Chasin-Yota Man]

Whenever possible you should use shielding gas to keep the weld shielded from impurity as it cools thus giving the weld strength.
Flux core is used for windy welding applications where the normal shielding gas would be blown away.

Typically in the welding world flux core has a bad name, if wind is the issue most guys will use SMAW (stick welding).

If you want to run MIG, you will have the best results with shielding gas-NOT Flux core IMO -and I have been welding and teaching welding for some time.

[yjay]

Huh?

[junya92toy]

Whenever possible you should use shielding gas to keep the weld shielded from impurity as it cools thus giving the weld strength.
Flux core is used for windy welding applications where the normal shielding gas would be blown away.

Typically in the welding world flux core has a bad name, if wind is the issue most guys will use SMAW (stick welding).

If you want to run MIG, you will have the best results with shielding gas-NOT Flux core IMO -and I have been welding and teaching welding for some time.

I would innershield has a bad name, dualshield  is great and used a lot.

[91 ex-cab [OP]]

I would innershield has a bad name, dualshield  is great and used a lot.

Huh, thats almost the opposite of what my welding teacher told me

[Gear Jammin-Dog Chasin-Yota Man]

Dual shield is the best set up for mig wedling for sure, it is used in almost any fab shop out there, and is the MIG equivilant for SMAW 7018 in quality and strength.

about innershield- it has its place in the welding world, just depends what you are wanting to fab.
 Dual shield is superior than innershield in most applications, and I think GMAW (mig with shielding gas) is better than innershield in most applications.

"Although the Innershield process has been displaced in many
areas by gas-shielded processes, Innershield continues to be an
important process for steel fabrication in many markets.
Innershield is the primary means for structural steel building
erection in the United States. In any shop or shipyard where wind
is a problem, Innershield can be a viable solution. Pipeline
fabrication is often done with Innershield because it is done
outdoors and shielding gas is sometimes difficult to get to these
locations."
(taken from Lincoln Electric's website)