Topic: what about ifs

[jimmer009]

  Ok I got the ifs and I am happy on how it works. I understand I don't get the flex. but I'm locked in the front and spooled in the rear. I can drive on my side lol. I havn't seen any heavy duty axel shafts/ cv shafts upgrades for my yota. maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

[twistedtoy92]

Check Total Chaos out..... They have all your Toyota IFS junk...

[jimmer009 [OP]]

thanks man. I used to run samurais one man junk is another man treasure

[Cheesemaker]

Should check out some of Blackdog's old posts.  He rocked IFS on his runner for many years without any issues.  You just need to get comfortable to tripoding your rig.  And carry spare cv joints. 

They say, the best thing to do is to get used to your rig, and then upgrade to a SAS later.  It will make you a better wheeler.

[bigarms23]

camburg as well has cv upgrades for toyotas

[junya92toy]

I wonder how welding a ring to a cv would work.

[emsvitil]

I wonder how welding a ring to a cv would work.

 


What are you trying to accomplish?

[bleakhorizon]

i wheeld my ifs for a long time, yea no flex in the front but damn, i could go off-camber and be more comfortable than my solid axle....i hear there is a company out there using (stock parts?) from another yota to go 3" wider (uses t100 half shafts).... but i cant seem to find it right now

[kneedownnate]

Should check out some of Blackdog's old posts.  He rocked IFS on his runner for many years without any issues.   

Well, he rocked the ifs, but it wasn't without issue 

[Rocksurfer]

Don't bother to mess with your axles or CV's they are just fine as they are, you are more likely to snap the short inner axle than anything and there is not upgrade for it. Plus if you do ever break one it is much easier to get a replacement at the local parts shop. My brother did the aftermarket stuff and broke more of them than the stock stuff. Yeah I've had to replace stock CV's but I never broke one. As to the upper arms same deal broke aftermarket arms but never an Oem. I'd just get a ball joint spacer and be done with it.

[Cheesemaker]

Well, he rocked the ifs, but it wasn't without issue 

It seemed he had more motor issues that I remember.  You know those pesky 3.0's.

[Rockcrawlintoy]

 


What are you trying to accomplish?

same thing bobby long did on the original long birfs

[junya92toy]

It seemed he had more motor issues that I remember.  You know those pesky 3.0's.

I have a pesky 3.0 with over 200k so suck it! haha

[Cheesemaker]

Blackdog's runner was called the "3.0 Killer!"   

[Snowtoy]

  Ok I got the ifs and I am happy on how it works. I understand I don't get the flex. but I'm locked in the front and spooled in the rear. I can drive on my side lol. I havn't seen any heavy duty axel shafts/ cv shafts upgrades for my yota. maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

For the type of wheeling you do(according to your other post), the IFS will work well enough.  Those of us who still wheel IFS push them a lot farther than most think they should go, and have relatively little issue.  I have a lunch box locker in the front of my '91(wheeling it for 3yrs that way) and haven't broken a CV yet, however I do carry spares, I also will leave the passenger hub unlocked when on the easier stuff.

I am not a fan of a welded rear, not because of tire wear, but because of how it handles on the trail.  I would swap it out for an ARB, or at least another lunch box locker.

Carry extra tie-rods and a spare idler arm.  If you break anything it will likely be one of those, especially if running tires bigger than 33's or like to wheel w/a heavy foot.

IIRC in your other post you were planning on dual cases, if/when you do get them this will help to reduce a lot of the stress wheeling puts on the IFS components.  Being able to crawl over an obstacle negates the need for speed to bump yourself over it, this reduces the effect of one of the IFS's weak points.

[jimmer009 [OP]]

Boy I want to go wheeling with you. I don't have nothin spare yet. maybe some spare bills but they don't ever help. My big idea now and I'm still reseaching it is getting rid of the torshian bar and replaceing the shock with a coil over. If I can get one with  a dual rate spring Or just get the perfect lbs/inch I think I it would better off road???     I'm on 35's and the suspention looks stock?? The rear is chevy springs for sure but the front looks stock. I know you can turn the torshian bars up but they clear 35's fine and the camber caster looks and rides great??? I think marlin should move to NY snow wheeling is fun a little obstacle can be fun for hours. thanks everyone for your help. 

[jimmer009 [OP]]

Just to be clearer I'd like to know what you guys think of the idea. If I put a shock hoop in to make the coil over longer. do you think it help any thing?? I really don't flex at all in the front the way am now. I like ifs but not a fan of a torshain bar suspention. any input would be helpful. thanks ppl

[Snowtoy]

I tried a set of 35's(12.50 on 10" rims w/3.75 backspacing) on my '90(w/4" IFS lift) and they rubbed at full lock.  If yours clear w/a stock suspension, you likely have a 3" body lift and cranked T-bars.

If you are familiar w/what oem IFS and lift kits look like for the IFS, here is a pic of an:
OEM IFS(angle of lower arm is due to 1.5" upper ball-joint spacer),

Traimaster 4" lift bracket IFS.


On my '91 I cleared 36's(the pic is with 35's) using a 2" body lift, 1.5" ball joint spacer, 3" longer rear shackles, beating the body seam back to the first body mount, as well as taking 2" out of the fender.


IIRC, you have an automatic, you will likely want to swap to 5.29's at some point down the road, the 4.88's that are in it are oem specs for 31's and an auto transmission in the v6 models.  The 5.29's would still be out of spec w/ the auto, but it would help the performance of the 22re a lot, or swap in a 5-spd.  W/dual cases the a manual transmission works almost as easily as an auto on the trail.

Seeing how guys w/SAS swaps have ripped the shock hoop out of the frame w/just the loads of the shock being applied to the hoop, I think you would need something a lot more substantial than the hoop since it has to support the weight of the vehicle, as well as all of the forces that are applied during on/off pavement use.

Total Chaos Fabrication has a kit that used coil overs, check them out and see all what is involved.  It is a nice kit, but expensive for a trail rig that doesn't see a lot of high speed off road driving.

There have been a few attempts over the years of trying to make the IFS system work better for off-road, and most of them have proven to be expensive.  IME, the oem t-bar suspension will work well enough, providing they aren't cranked to gain lift.  I get enough wheel travel out of mine w/the t-bars set at oem spec and w/the sway bar disconnected to not have issues with the trails I run.  Yes I have done my share of three wheeling, but you get used to it.  With a locked rear you really wont have much issues for the type of wheeling you like/expect to do, to justify the expense of swapping the t-bars for coil overs.

Once you determine how the front was lifted, we might be able to give you an idea of what you can do to get a little more wheel movement out of the front end.

[jimmer009 [OP]]

heres my pics. I can promise there is no body lift. and I don't rub at all. let me know you think. I have the 33re and i'm thinking the gears need some changing.

[jimmer009 [OP]]

I ment 22re lol

[jtaco1]

I would say unless you go with a long travel setup, you won't get much more flex out of the front IFS.  I have been rocking the stock IFS on my 4 Runner for a few years now and while it does not flex like a solid axle, it does fine and hangs with the solid axle guys.  The dual cases, lack of a front locker and no suspension lift help keep the front end of mine together with 35's and now 37's.  All I have is a 1" body lift and that was only so I could lift the drivetrain higher.  I trimmed the fenders and firewall back and the 37's fit well.

[jimmer009 [OP]]

thats a nice looking rig. I was just wondering there has to be something better than a torshain bar. When has it ever been a good idea to turn the same piece of metal over and over. but It does work good and I should be happy for that. I might start pieceing a sas kit together. But it will take awhile to get everything around. I don't thnk rocking the ifs will be that hard. thanks for the help

[Snowtoy]

Definitely no suspension bracket lift, but you do have a set of 1.5" ball join spacers on the upper A-arms(Pic 3), you can see the spacer and the bolts for the heads of the bolts.  Oem ball joins/replacements use studs, and the ball joint is tucked up under the upper A-arm  outer edge.  Also w/the amount of room you have between the upper A-arm and the inner fender sheet metal(Pic 2) it looks like you have a 2 or 3 inch body lift.  Oem body mounts have the sheet metal of the inner fender much closure to the upper A-arm than in your pic.  I find the BL a benefit w/the 22r, it makes it a lot easier to get to the starter and oil filter, then on non BL trucks.  It makes sense that you would have some type of lift on the truck w/35's(look like they are 12.50's from your avatar), 32's are about all you can fit w/o a lift, and they still require body seam modification.

Once you start cranking them in for extra lift or heavy winch bumper w/winch is when you start to see them wear, and some have broke, but when left at oem settings they are a proven to be a durable suspension system.  My '90 has been wheeled since I bought it new, and has pretty much carried an extra 600-1000/lbs of weight on a daily basis since it was new, w/o having any issues w/the t-bars.

Once you have wheeled the IFS for a while, you will have a better idea of what it can and can't do.  I still plan to swap in a SA at some point w/my '91, I just have a new project/money pit to finish first.

[jimmer009 [OP]]

  thanks man. I used to have samurai's. thery are pretty neat little rigs on there own to. I love the short wheel base. But they go down the road bad. I think I'm gonna save and start colecting for the sas. now I can buy the marlin kit for 175. that will locate the leafs I buy (probly 4 inch??) with the axel I find. Does it have to be a 80 to 85?? can it be out of a 4runner?? and does my steering work on the soild front axel?? thanks for all you help so far.

[Snowtoy]

Yes Sami's have come a long way, and they all are but unstoppable when you have Toyota running gear and drive train in them.  One of the guys we wheel with from time to time built this one(Toyota drive train/running gear) ran the trails with ease.  

Unfortunately their size while great on the trail limits their usefulness for bringing much gear w/you, and when loaded w/camping gear for a long weekend they tend to get top heavy.


'80-85 straight axles work from either a truck or 4-Runner, but you can also use the older land cruiser FJ60 and FJ80 axles which are wider than the mini trucks, but you have to move the spring perches from below to above the axle,  whereas you don't w/the truck/4-Runner ones, you can also use a Dana 44(non full size).  The '80'95 truck and runner axles are narrower than the  IFS rear axle, so you will need to run wheel spacers to match the front and rear track widths.  You can also re-use some of your IFS components w/FJ60 rotors, there is a short discussion here widened axle without a wheel spacer, a search should turn up more.  IIRC, Sky-Manufacturing sells a kit, I am not sure if Marlin offers a kit or who else might.

Most upgrade their oem push-pull steering to hi-steer x-over steering, which offers better control/road manners on the highway and gets all the steering linkages above the axle and out of harms way off road.  You would retain your IFS steering box when using the high steer, otherwise you have to swap everything out for the original oem push-pull steering system.

Marlins SAS kit comes w/everything you need except for the axle to do an SAS, you would still need to factor in the cost of regearing the SA diff to 5.29's, a locker(if wanted), rebuild kit, as well as upgrades and the cost of the straight axle, to have an idea of what it will run you, not including installation cost.  When I have figured out the cost of using off the shelf items I come up w/about $3k(ARB locker) w/o labor costs.  It can be done cheaper, but sometimes it is worth paying extra to get everything you need rather than buying it in pieces from different suppliers.

[axled89]

sweet pic's man i'm jealous.

[kneedownnate]

Unfortunately their size while great on the trail limits their usefulness for bringing much gear w/you, and when loaded w/camping gear for a long weekend they tend to get top heavy.

I see 2 cases of canned urine on top, coulda saved money, space, and been less top heavy if he'd bought a couple nalgene bottles and peed in them at the trail 

[Gixxer Jon]

I see 2 cases of canned urine on top, coulda saved money, space, and been less top heavy if he'd bought a couple nalgene bottles and peed in them at the trail 

hey hey hey Nate, take it easy.. Dont mess with the silver bullets now, they are way better then that butt wiper you probably drink.. lol

[Snowtoy]

That is what is left of the beer he didn't drink over the 4 day weekend.

I know what you mean about the beer though, fortunately about 8 yrs ago I switched from beer to Crown and coke for wheeling.  A lot less garbage to pack in/out and no need for a 3rd ice chest just for the beer.

[jimmer009 [OP]]

coors light is like sex in a boat F*&^%ing near water lol. I'll stick to my beer. I can drink that in moderation. mixed drink get me in trouble. labatts is were it is at though fyi :-) I think I'm gonna build the ifs. For the wheeling I do and the little bit of street driving I do. I really don't have that kind of money to put into a sas. that is a nice looking sammi. to bad it didn't have box like the yotas. but yea don't forget the beer