Author Topic: widened axle without a wheel spacer (Read 9541 times)

shad · « **on:** May 16, 2005, 10:11:58 AM »

I widened my front axle without wheel spacers. I used IFS hub bodies, FJ40 rotors and IFS v6 calipers.
First off I know it's been done before. I also think i saw a thread on this here too.

Here's a few pics of the frankenstien:
I removed most of the dustsheild made it easier to mount the caliper and now there isn't a big ugly space between it and the rotor.

My non skilled drill master abilities. Don't worry this FJ40 rotor is crap. I plan on getting another one and doing a better job.

I had to grind some material off the side of the V6 IFS brake caliper because the rim was rubbing on the caliper.
I am not sure if the 4 cylinder IFS caliper are a little smaller so it may not be necessary to do this.

New width with tire on.

BigMike · « **Reply #1 on:** May 16, 2005, 10:20:50 AM »

Looks good, but I have a question:

Is that the finished job? Do you need longer studs there?

shad · « **Reply #2 on:** May 16, 2005, 04:29:25 PM »

Yup it's finished and nope I don't need longer studs the oem ifs toyota ones work fine in the hub.
The FJ40 rotor has to have additional holes drilled in it to match the IFS hub bolt on pattern.
So now it basically bolts on the back of the hub like the IFS rotor does.

shad · « **Reply #3 on:** May 17, 2005, 03:02:23 PM »

Yeah finshed the other side today. It went alot smoother and cleaner this time.
It's done though wheel spacer free in the front

shad · « **Reply #4 on:** May 17, 2005, 05:03:33 PM »

Here's a pic RJ took of my ugly mug grinding the dustsheild off.

Here's RJ's 1978 CJ7 with narrowed dana 60's axles e-lockers on 17" rims with 37x12.50 MTR's.

KWP · « **Reply #5 on:** May 17, 2005, 05:18:02 PM »

Nice truck man. Do you know if 4 cylinder locking hubs will work on the v6 hub bodies? Thanks.

BigMike · « **Reply #6 on:** May 17, 2005, 05:23:51 PM »

Yup, everything is 4cyl. The hub bodies are the same for either 4cyl or V6 through 86-95 all IFS.

KWP · « **Reply #7 on:** May 17, 2005, 05:35:45 PM »

Sweet thanks man. This seems like the way to go to get away from spacers.How much width did that give you on each side?

shad · « **Reply #8 on:** May 17, 2005, 06:40:21 PM »

It basically gives you the same width as running a 1.5" wheel spacer per side.
So you have a 58" wide axle instead of a 55".

RustyToy · « **Reply #9 on:** May 17, 2005, 08:09:14 PM »

i have ia stupid question. why is it such a big deal running wheel spacers. okay i said it. why do they sell them if they are so dangerouse.

BigMike · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2005, 08:35:20 PM »

You know I've heard stories here in the 'net about lugs coming loose and tires falling off

but everyone who I know that has ever ran them has NEVER had a problem with them, myself included. My truck is a daily driver with 4 1.5" wheel spacers and my lugs have never once come loose.

In my situation, the only reason I would do this Rotor spacer trick is so that I can run my 4 equal spacers (with a wide rear end) and get the front end to match the extra width of the rear end. That's the only reason why I would do this because I've got a wide rear end and 4 equal spacers, so my rear is a bit wider than my front-

Hyena · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2005, 08:49:54 PM »

I use to run 4-1 1/2 inch wheel spacers. they never came loose. I decided to switch to an ifs rear axle and sold the 2 wheel spacers. I don't think spacers are that bad if you mount them right.

RustyToy · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2005, 10:07:13 PM »

what would be the best way to mount them?

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2005, 10:10:44 PM »

I hate the idea of having all the torque of my reduction being transmitted through 2 sets of studs and a chunk of aluminum. Thatw why I run steel wheels and ifs hubs instead of spacers.

toyojo86 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 19, 2005, 07:31:16 PM »

hey I did the ifs wheel bearing hub on my strait axle and my calipers didnt line up what canI do

shad · « **Reply #15 on:** May 19, 2005, 10:43:44 PM »

You have to run IFS brake calipers too with FJ40 rotors.
This won't work with regular SFA stock brake calipers or rotors.

If you are running IFS calipers and FJ40 rotors and the rotor is rubbing I was told to grind the insidie of the caliper slightly so it clears it.

shad · « **Reply #16 on:** May 19, 2005, 10:48:16 PM »

Quote from: toyojo86 on May 19, 2005, 07:31:16 PM

hey I did the ifs wheel bearing hub on my strait axle and my calipers didnt line up what canI do

Did you remove part of the dust sheild around where the caliper mounts??

shad · « **Reply #17 on:** May 20, 2005, 08:06:30 AM »

The only other things I can think of:
Are you using the 79-85 wheel bearings in the IFS hubs?
Those are the wheel bearings you should be using.
Also are the bearings seated all the way?

shad · « **Reply #18 on:** May 21, 2005, 08:01:19 AM »

These are the instructions I made for this so it kinda simplifys things.

Well here's the skinny on how to do the IFS hub body mod for a 79-85 toyota solid axle:
here's a example of he differences in the two hub bodies:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1649941

Purpose for this is to widen the axle without running a wheel spacer. This basically makes the front axle 58" wide instead of being 55" wide stock.

Here's where the thread started:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218389&page=1&pp=25

Then it took off sorta here

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=7449.0

Ok first here's the list of parts needed:

86-95 IFS hub body.
Leave all the wheel studs on it keep all the hardware to it including the bolts that attach the IFS rotor to the hub body.
Also keep your IFS Rotors you will need them for a drilling template later on.

You can use the wheel seals and bearings for the SFA hub in the IFS hub

86-95 IFS brake calipers

FJ40 disk brake rotors 81-up

You need longer bolts for the calipers because they attach to the outside of the knuckle mounts when you get done installing the IFS hub body. You can do this two ways either use a bolt and self locking nut to go through all the way or thread the caliper holes with a tap and thread a bolt through the caliper to secure it to the knuckle.

The parts I used for this:

4ea 2" 1/2" grade 8 bolts
4ea 1/2" lock nuts

Here's what you need to do.
Drill out the threads on the knuckle. A 31/64" drill bit will do this nicely. Then use a 1/2" drill bit to complete the job.
Do the same thing to your IFS brake caliper bolt holes use the 1/2" bit to finish.

You will have to trim your dustsheild to fit the brake calipers on the outside of the knuckle.
I ended up trimming the whole thing and removed the whole dustsheild on mine.

Take your old IFS rotor lay it on top of your FJ40 rotor use c-clamps to secure them together using the IFS rotor attachment holes as a template on the FJ40 rotor use a 3/8" metal drill bit and drill them to match the pattern.
The 3/8" drill bit is 9.5mm so it very close to the 10mm size of the diameter that goes through the rotor so you can use the bit to ream it to the right size if need be.

Bolt the newly drilled FJ40 rotor onto the IFS hub body the same was as you would a IFS rotor.

You may have to clearence the inside portion of the IFS brake calipers a little so the FJ40 rotor fits. With V6 IFS calipers there was no clearencing required.

Put the frankenstien together.

I found the IFS caliper will rub on the inside edge of my 15x8 wheels this can be taken care of using a 1/4" wheel spacer or grinding the outside of the caliper slightly so it clears the wheel which is prefered because you are trying to be without spacers in the front.

Hope this helps and thanks for the info on doing the rotor part on this White Trash .

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2005, 11:22:30 AM »

Toyojo86 you need to grind the ears on the knuckle a bit so the caliper and rotor line up. Its not a total bolt on deal but its close.

shad · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2005, 02:52:34 PM »

I didn't have to do that on mine. I just took off the dustsheild.
After I drilled the caliper bolt holes out to 1/2" they bolted right on.

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2005, 06:15:31 PM »

Hmmm interesting thought... Ill bet that would indeed make it bolt up directly since I the thickness of the dustshield flange is about equal to the amount of material I took off....

IronClad · « **Reply #22 on:** May 23, 2005, 12:17:57 PM »

You really need that IFS hub spacer to run your brakes CORRECTLY. how you have it is very dangerous and the caliper will want to move around. When you have the spacer to move the rotor over you will have a proper mounting setup.. sky and others dont make the spacers to run the brakes pushed over for nothing would they ? hope you dont live in nor cal or drive that thing on the street

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #23 on:** May 23, 2005, 01:10:51 PM »

Ive ran this setup for well over a year on the street and offroad with absolutely no problems at all. I will continue to do so because there is no problems with the setup its just a bit different then spending $200 on spacers so its automatically a bad idea right? Ive locked up my 38.5sx's at 5 psi on dry pavement with this setup if that isnt a true test name one and Ill do it.

IronClad · « **Reply #24 on:** May 23, 2005, 03:29:35 PM »

we build the spacers for 80 bucks

and it lets you use the ifs rotors and calipers

id rather spend the 45 mins at the lathe. to me that setup just does not look safe. but eh whatever

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #25 on:** May 23, 2005, 03:49:27 PM »

Ifs rotors are 1/2" smaller OD so you lose pad contact using them instead of fj-40 or fj-80 rotors. I dont see what is unsafe about it, the calipers are still mounted to the origional "ears" on the knuckle just swapped to the oposite side of the ears. Im using larger bolts than factory so I sure didnt lose any strength in the fasner dept. The shear force is still the same on the caliper mounting hardware and this way I dont have to trust a piece of aluminum with two sets
of lugnuts to make sure are tight or spend any of my hard earned money to do it. When was the last time you heard of anyone having a tire pass them on the road due to this hub swap?

IronClad · « **Reply #26 on:** May 23, 2005, 04:49:04 PM »

my convern is not with the tire flying off but the caliper sheering off. the spacers we make are to run the ifs hubs and rotors to widen it not actuall wheel spacers. plus we make them from steel not aluminum so there is no way for the tire to come off like a normal wheel spacer.

WHITE_TRASH · « **Reply #27 on:** May 23, 2005, 11:44:16 PM »

I understand what you guys do. But you are still losing 1/4" of contact between the rotor and brake pads by usning ifs rotors. You must use some kind of new fangled engineering to figure out that the caliper will sheer off by being mounted in the same fashion as stock. I guess Im just a hillbilly that doesnt understand all these new things these days.

shad · « **Reply #28 on:** May 25, 2005, 08:29:03 AM »

Hmm so if this is not safe why haven't I seen a thread about not doing this?
Anyone experiencing the caliper shearing off the knuckle ears like people are saying?

I mean if Landcruiser guys do this I have yet to see some info of having problems with it.
Hell they use thinner material for rear brake conversions I haven't seen any concern about those setup's.

Put some info up with proof with testing that this isn't safe and I will change my mind about it.

I think people worry too much about it.
I have seen scarier hysteer steering systems out there than brakes setups.
I'd be more worried about people on the road loosing thier steering or a wheelspacer than a brake caliper but whatever...

KWP · « **Reply #29 on:** May 25, 2005, 03:51:27 PM »

I pesonally see nothing wrong with it. It looks to be plenty strong to me, in fact I plan to do this to my runner soon.

Like Shad said lets see proof it's not safe.

shad [OP]

shad [OP]

shad [OP]

shad [OP]

shad [OP]

shad [OP]

shad [OP]

shad [OP]

shad [OP]

shad [OP]

Related Topics