Author Topic: connecting rods caps/crankshaft question (Read 10286 times)

jji · « **on:** Jul 17, 2009, 05:58:40 PM »

I am in the middle of putting together my 22r after i cleaned everything. I was almost through assembling it with the head and timing cover on when i found i couldn't place the timing chain on the camshaft. when i tried to turn the crankshaft i couldn't get it to move. when i loosened the connecting rod caps i found the crank could freely move but only when completely loose. I think it is possible they got out of order.

If anyone knows the number orientation on the tops of the caps of a 22r or knows any other reason this would happen i could use the help.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #1 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 07:54:47 PM »

if it wont rotate when the rod caps are tight and will only turn when they are loose then you have the WRONG BEARINGS for that crankshaft

sounds like you have maybe .010 inch bearings on a standard AKA stock crank

OOPS · « **Reply #2 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 08:55:54 PM »

Or you have the rod caps mixed up or on the wrong way.

jji · « **Reply #3 on:** Jul 17, 2009, 10:43:12 PM »

thanks a lot 79coyotefrg i put on the old bearings just to check if that was it and my crank twisted real smooth. thanks

crazykooter · « **Reply #4 on:** Jul 18, 2009, 06:33:26 AM »

Its not always 100% true that it will spin smoothly with new bearings in. The initial torque down if done incorrectly can and will cause it to bind. Just install new caps and bearing then torque it in correct order and in increments. Meaning if its suppose to be say 100 FT pounds of torque then do it they way I learned. This applies to everything you do imo. tighten to 50% of max torque then 75% and finally to 100%. This insures an even lay down of all the parts. Remember that on 22R blocks it says to torque it to I think its 58 ft pounds for crank bearings. Not 100% on that, BUT you always take it another 45 degrees past that. Book may say 90. Too tired to remember. Just read the fsm carefully.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #5 on:** Jul 18, 2009, 08:19:25 AM »

Quote from: crazykooter on Jul 18, 2009, 06:33:26 AM

Its not always 100% true that it will spin smoothly with new bearings in. The initial torque down if done incorrectly can and will cause it to bind. Just install new caps and bearing then torque it in correct order and in increments. Meaning if its suppose to be say 100 FT pounds of torque then do it they way I learned. This applies to everything you do imo. tighten to 50% of max torque then 75% and finally to 100%. This insures an even lay down of all the parts. Remember that on 22R blocks it says to torque it to I think its 58 ft pounds for crank bearings. Not 100% on that, BUT you always take it another 45 degrees past that. Book may say 90. Too tired to remember. Just read the fsm carefully.

not on a 22r you dont, a v6 yes thats the procedure but NOT a 22R

Quote from: jji on Jul 17, 2009, 10:43:12 PM

thanks a lot 79coyotefrg i put on the old bearings just to check if that was it and my crank twisted real smooth. thanks

double check the sizes on the new bearings and old bearings, if the old ones say "std" they are standard=stock size, if they say 25mm or .010 (inches) then they are "undersize bearings (for a crank thats been "turned down" and will cause it to bind down

double check that all the bearing caps are on correctly, as OOPS said if you have them on wrong this will cause binding also

the small notches on the bearing should be on the same side

fordh8r · « **Reply #6 on:** Jul 18, 2009, 09:24:49 AM »

All of the above and..........Plastigage. That will tell you a lot.

crazykooter · « **Reply #7 on:** Jul 18, 2009, 10:27:23 PM »

I will have to go take a pic of the torque spec sheet and post it. This procedure is done when your torquing two different metals together. Its was considered standerd procedure from toyota for a long time. Maybe it has changed since the head gaskets have changed as well. Heck most of the head gaskets made for the 22r these days dont even have the steam ports opened up which is just begging for a blown HG.

drayday55 · « **Reply #8 on:** Jul 18, 2009, 10:30:19 PM »

forgive my ignorance but what holes are the steam ports. im building my 22re and i dont want any problems. i just surfaced both the block and head 3 passes on the head and 4 on the block at.002 each. the finish is better than oem so i was also wondering if i should go with a mls head gsket from lc?

crazykooter · « **Reply #9 on:** Jul 19, 2009, 07:42:38 AM »

Quote from: drayday55 on Jul 18, 2009, 10:30:19 PM

forgive my ignorance but what holes are the steam ports. im building my 22re and i dont want any problems. i just surfaced both the block and head 3 passes on the head and 4 on the block at.002 each. the finish is better than oem so i was also wondering if i should go with a mls head gsket from lc?

Just get a rock head gasket it has the steam holes in it like they should be. I will post pics later showing you the diff. and as for ignorance most people dont know there is a diff and the only reason I know is because of a local machine shop I delt with that does a lot of 22r's.

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #10 on:** Jul 19, 2009, 08:22:18 AM »

Quote from: crazykooter on Jul 19, 2009, 07:42:38 AM

Just get a rock head gasket it has the steam holes in it like they should be. I will post pics later showing you the diff. and as for ignorance most people dont know there is a diff and the only reason I know is because of a local machine shop I delt with that does a lot of 22r's.

here is a rock gasket (bottom) and a felpro (top)

use a rock/toyota or LC (all MLS) gasket

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #11 on:** Jul 19, 2009, 08:40:43 AM »

Quote from: crazykooter on Jul 18, 2009, 10:27:23 PM

I will have to go take a pic of the torque spec sheet and post it. This procedure is done when your torquing two different metals together. Its was considered standerd procedure from toyota for a long time. Maybe it has changed since the head gaskets have changed as well. Heck most of the head gaskets made for the 22r these days dont even have the steam ports opened up which is just begging for a blown HG.

is that the same standard procedure toyota used for aluminum piston rings

Quote from: crazykooter on Jul 14, 2009, 10:46:35 PM

.30 over rings are very common for 22rs since they are steel rings instead of the stock aluminum ones. As jimbo said a local machine shop can get them if not have them already. There is a machine shop near me which I know had a couple sets in stock. You can also contact japan engines in fremont. They deal with a ton of yota engines.

crazykooter · « **Reply #12 on:** Jul 19, 2009, 11:06:50 AM »

Im looking the felpro and its changed since the last time I used one. It does have the steam ports cut into it. Good to see they fixed that.
Gonna run to parts store but I might get time to post the spec sheet when I get my camera back from the boss.

Someone can come over and put my shock hoop on for me. I am too tired to do it lol.

drayday55 · « **Reply #13 on:** Jul 21, 2009, 09:40:43 PM »

As we are on the subject , how many of you guys pull the oil gally plugs on the crank and the block to clean the passages.
i am worried about them since they got turned .020 under. the shop that did it is known for quality work. im just a little parranoid

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #14 on:** Jul 22, 2009, 11:54:56 AM »

Quote from: drayday55 on Jul 21, 2009, 09:40:43 PM

As we are on the subject , how many of you guys pull the oil gally plugs on the crank and the block to clean the passages.
i am worried about them since they got turned .020 under. the shop that did it is known for quality work. im just a little parranoid

yes i always do that, its the only way to get them completely clean, a boil out wont get it all, i like to remove the plugs brush the passages with a rifle bore brush and THEN send it to the machine shop for a boil

drayday55 · « **Reply #15 on:** Jul 24, 2009, 10:20:57 PM »

crap its done now, not assembled though. should i pull the plugs on both the block and crank use a can of brake clean on each and put em back in? pipe dope? or nothing? do they strip easy? or come out easy?

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #16 on:** Jul 25, 2009, 09:41:44 AM »

if you can get them out GET THEM OUT, yea just use a can of brake clean and get that junk out of there, also theres oil holes under the cam in the head, make sure they are clean thru to the pass side headbolt holes

drayday55 · « **Reply #17 on:** Jul 26, 2009, 09:02:04 PM »

got it! cool thanks im gonna order the bearings and rings this week you run seald power? my friend Noel is suggesting them. also rings by them

drayday55 · « **Reply #18 on:** Aug 12, 2009, 10:24:45 PM »

Quote from: crazykooter on Jul 18, 2009, 06:33:26 AM

Its not always 100% true that it will spin smoothly with new bearings in. The initial torque down if done incorrectly can and will cause it to bind. Just install new caps and bearing then torque it in correct order and in increments. Meaning if its suppose to be say 100 FT pounds of torque then do it they way I learned. This applies to everything you do imo. tighten to 50% of max torque then 75% and finally to 100%. This insures an even lay down of all the parts. Remember that on 22R blocks it says to torque it to I think its 58 ft pounds for crank bearings. Not 100% on that, BUT you always take it another 45 degrees past that. Book may say 90. Too tired to remember. Just read the fsm carefully.

where in the fsm does it say to yield? past? i am building my motor right now and i just tourqed it to 76 mains and 46 rod caps. i hope thats it!

chim · « **Reply #19 on:** Aug 13, 2009, 11:25:35 AM »

Since you guys mentioned it... I used a felpro on my last 22re and never had any issues.. I was going to use another one on another 22re I have.. Anyone have any issues with felpro? Or should it be a factory gasket?

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #20 on:** Aug 13, 2009, 11:37:34 AM »

Quote from: drayday55 on Aug 12, 2009, 10:24:45 PM

where in the fsm does it say to yield? past?

it doesnt, not on a 22R

Quote

i am building my motor right now and i just tourqed it to 76 mains and 46 rod caps. i hope thats it!

that is all

Quote from: chim on Aug 13, 2009, 11:25:35 AM

Since you guys mentioned it... I used a felpro on my last 22re and never had any issues.. I was going to use another one on another 22re I have.. Anyone have any issues with felpro? Or should it be a factory gasket?

does blowed head gaskets count as "trouble"

do yourself a favor and go get one from the dealer, or the Rock, multi layer steel gasket

chim · « **Reply #21 on:** Aug 13, 2009, 11:53:26 AM »

Who sells the "Rock" head gasket?

79coyotefrg · « **Reply #22 on:** Aug 13, 2009, 07:23:33 PM »

most machine shops can get them, or you can go ---> http://www.rockprod.com/gaskets/gaskets.html

jji [OP]

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