Topic: spuare tube driveshaft debate

[84socal]

ok   guys   this one guy on another forum  says that using a square tube driveshaft  on a daily driver  is a dumb idea    and he said no one runs them  for a dd   so a was just wondering if u guys could post pics   weather   its a dd   or trail only rig     that has a sqare shaft     thanx guys   i just wanna shut this guy up
thanx

[jimbo74]

are you talking about using it as a front or rear shaft? on a dd, as a front shaft, it wont matter... but if you use it on a rear shaft..

[84socal [OP]]

   ya   front   sorry       thanx

[MiniSimp]

Front is fine for DD as long as you have selectable hubs.

[Talon84x4]

Square front on mine and it's a dd, no problems. 

[*** YELLER ***]

I drove MINI's truck back from the Rubicon last year all the way to Tracy at 70 mph and it was fine 




 

[*FFC*]

I have a square DS in the rear on the Migo - I drove it from Tahoe to Loon last year No big biggy... not recommended for the rear though.  Fronts - as long as your hubs aren't full time locked in you'll be good.

[BLACKDOG]

x1000000000000  on the front.  You'll be fine with the hubs unlocked.  Mine used to be a DD, put about 15000 miles on it with a square tube   don't even notice it on the road.

[RynothealbinO]

Sorry, kind of off topic, but how what is the recomended top speed for a square shaft.  I live in Minnesota, so I occasionally end up driving around for a while with my front locked in because of the frequent snow.  If it is not snowing I I lock the frontend out, but during storms I drive with it locked in so I can put it into 4 wheel drive if I get into trouble.  Would I still be able to do this with a square shaft?

[*FFC*]

Sorry, kind of off topic, but how what is the recomended top speed for a square shaft.  I live in Minnesota, so I occasionally end up driving around for a while with my front locked in because of the frequent snow.  If it is not snowing I I lock the frontend out, but during storms I drive with it locked in so I can put it into 4 wheel drive if I get into trouble.  Would I still be able to do this with a square shaft?

This depends on how well balanced your driveshaft is - if it's a well made and balanced DS, then I'd say whatever your locked in 4wd can handle.  But not for long amounts of time - that'll wear and tear on your trans and axle.

[BLACKDOG]

Sorry, kind of off topic, but how what is the recomended top speed for a square shaft.  I live in Minnesota, so I occasionally end up driving around for a while with my front locked in because of the frequent snow.  If it is not snowing I I lock the frontend out, but during storms I drive with it locked in so I can put it into 4 wheel drive if I get into trouble.  Would I still be able to do this with a square shaft?

I wouldn't recommend it.  In reality, it all depends on how well you balance it, but because of the shape, it'll never be perfectly dialed in.  I've run mine up to 65, and didn't have any vibes when I was on the gas.  It would vibrate when I was coasting though.  Obviously, you could do it, but I would think that the excess vibration would be bad for your seals, ujoints, etc. in the long run.  Since you need it so much, I'd probably go with a round shaft for the front.

[MiniSimp]

Sorry, kind of off topic, but how what is the recomended top speed for a square shaft.  I live in Minnesota, so I occasionally end up driving around for a while with my front locked in because of the frequent snow.  If it is not snowing I I lock the frontend out, but during storms I drive with it locked in so I can put it into 4 wheel drive if I get into trouble.  Would I still be able to do this with a square shaft?

Well, OldYellerCJ was doing about 70-75 in my truck with square rear and it did fine, driveline bolts were loose when we got back after 3 hours of freeway driving.

[EarlKann]

Sorry, kind of off topic, but how what is the recomended top speed for a square shaft.  I live in Minnesota, so I occasionally end up driving around for a while with my front locked in because of the frequent snow.  If it is not snowing I I lock the frontend out, but during storms I drive with it locked in so I can put it into 4 wheel drive if I get into trouble.  Would I still be able to do this with a square shaft?

This is the real question.  So it's your daily driver, how often do you run in 4wd on the street, in say snowy conditions like this guy?  If you're using your 4hi to get back and forth to work in the winter I wouldn't reccomend a square tube driveshaft.  If you're only in 4wd for trails, slow to med speed fire roads and stuff like that, then it's fine (assuming selectable hubs as has been pointed out)

[Lady Di]

Yup front square on the Mammoth too. Would not have anything else. It's not a DD but we do go on road trips with it.

Just read the post above... Florida... not an issue.

[NT-OUTBACK]

I think having a square driveshaft is self defeating on a daily driver as 4 high becomes next to worthless. My truck sees snow, ice on the street and I like the extra bit of security knowing that my round driveshaft is balanced. I'm sure by now most people are rolling their eyes, but having any driveshaft vibration is self defeating to the lifespan of my transfer case and front diff bearings.

[porkchop]

square up front for me as well I love it!

[Tallchevy]

I think having a square driveshaft is self defeating on a daily driver as 4 high becomes next to worthless. My truck sees snow, ice on the street and I like the extra bit of security knowing that my round driveshaft is balanced. I'm sure by now most people are rolling their eyes, but having any driveshaft vibration is self defeating to the lifespan of my transfer case and front diff bearings.

Everyones situation is different. My Runner is a daily driver with a square front shaft but I don't see the snowy/icy road conditions.

[Toymin8r]

If you do any driving in 4wd over 30mph then I wouldn't do it.   Yeah, yeah it may seem fine on the highway. I 've heard that before but unless it is balanced your gonna get some serious vibrations up there that will cause other parts in your t-case and 3rd member to wear out prematurely.  Then you'll just spend the money you saved on the driveshaft fixing other stuff caused by the cheap driveshaft.

I don't see how an unbalanced square shaft can go down the highway fine at 65-70mph.  if a driveshaft gets out of balance by just a few ounces it will cause a vibration.  Maybe all the other junk vibrating drowns out the front shaft.   Maybe I'm just older and less tolerant about the poor ride quality than most but I like my dd to be a smooth ride in 2wd or 4wd.

[porkchop]

mine is strictly a non dd  if i drove on road might think about round

[Hammerhead]

2 square shafts in my driveway... both DDs...

With hubs unlocked and T-case in 2wd why would it matter?  The front is just sitting there not doing anything. 

[46&2]

I have run a square front for over 2 years, DD with up to 60 MPH 4WD use (snow). If it is made well it wont have much vibration at all. My friend has made like 30 square shafts and he made mine for me. I was driving 60 MPH on the freeway, 6" snow 4HI and i didnt get any vibration. unless you plan on commuting regularly in 4WD a square front is a much cheaper way to go for a front shaft. I rarely use it higher than 20-30 mph at the most anyway so no, your friend is full of it. Its fine for DD use.

[NT-OUTBACK]

Another way to look at is if Toyota knew they could have saved money by making the front shaft square they would have done it. ditto for any other car company.

[Tallchevy]

Another way to look at is if Toyota knew they could have saved money by making the front shaft square they would have done it. ditto for any other car company.

[BLACKDOG]

If you do any driving in 4wd over 30mph then I wouldn't do it.   Yeah, yeah it may seem fine on the highway. I 've heard that before but unless it is balanced your gonna get some serious vibrations up there that will cause other parts in your t-case and 3rd member to wear out prematurely.  Then you'll just spend the money you saved on the driveshaft fixing other stuff caused by the cheap driveshaft.

I don't see how an unbalanced square shaft can go down the highway fine at 65-70mph.  if a driveshaft gets out of balance by just a few ounces it will cause a vibration.  Maybe all the other junk vibrating drowns out the front shaft.   Maybe I'm just older and less tolerant about the poor ride quality than most but I like my dd to be a smooth ride in 2wd or 4wd.

the better they're made, the less they'll vibrate.  Mine is squared up really well, and I wrapped the inner section in duct tape to fill up the slight gap between the inner and outer section.    Brandon on here welded mine up, and he did a great job  

I wouldn't recommend it on a regular 4x4 DD, when I built mine, I was living in the Sacramento area, and going up to the snow occasionally.  Its only been coming out of the storms coming over the pass on I80 that I had in locked in.  Otherwise I was wheeling slow, or in 2wd.  If I were to DD it up here in Reno, I'd seriously consider a round d-shaft, but It isn't a DD any longer, so I doubt I'll change it. 

[46&2]

Really, how often you use 4wd on the street should determine wether or not to use a square front shaft. I guesstimated that last year, I probably drove my 4runner about 15-20 days out of the entire year in 4wd (on the street, around town, or on the freeway) because of big snow storms. Other than that, I drive with the rig in 2wd, hubs unlocked. So nothing is happening with the shaft, its just sitting there. If you think you are going to be driving 100, 200 or all 365 days out of the year in 4 hi everywhere you go, id say get a professionally made round front shaft. Otherwise, it really doesnt matter. Find someone who has made a lot of square shafts and have them make it, it will barely vibrate or make any noise.

Most people will also agree that a square shaft is stronger than a regular shaft because there are no splines to jack up.

[BLACKDOG]

If you do want to go a cheaper route with a round tube, buy the long spline kit (marlin, Allpro, etc.)  and use some schedule 40 pipe.  Check out 4rnrick's tuki suzuki build.  He has a jig for building round tube d-shafts, and has a nice how to on his thread as well

[abnormaltoy]

A good friend would have provided a link!

[DTB]

I think square shafts are kinda ghetto.......every one I have seen is loud and clanky.

[Tallchevy]

I think square shafts are kinda ghetto.......every one I have seen is loud and clanky.

When do you hear it make noise? In 2wd or 4wd?

[abnormaltoy]

I think square shafts are kinda ghetto.......every one I have seen is loud and clanky.

I don't know...maybe more like backwoods.